Letter to the ministers to reduce draw wait times.

[diamond k]

Sorry for the derail but I dont know when it became a crime to be rewarded for working hard and being rewarded for doing so.

Sometimes life is not fair. I get it but if you can afford a prius you buy a prius. If you can afford a BMW and that is what you want that is what you buy.

You all talk about how the guys are whining about how this is not fair that a guys can pay a bit more for the potential opportunity. You are the same guys who go to work and whine cause that "guy" makes more money, or that "guy" gets all the breaks well you know what that "guy" probably worked harder. He did not go home and lay on the couch and complain after work. Seriously boys time to wipe away the tears and realize life gives you back what you put in

Do I think that we should make it impossible for guys to continue there hunting heritage and rights. No way, but I dont see anything wrong with making something as coveted as limited draw sheep tag something that should be valued accordingly.

[residentguide]

Originally Posted by chuck

No it is not wrong. In fact, one zone has more outfitter allocations than resident allocations.

Are you just looking to argue? I said it was wrong not you. I was agreeing with you on that one point but disagree with all of your original post.

[gopher]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

They certainly do effect the draw pool, in that if they were eliminated, more residents could draw tags,to have the same number of total tags available. That in itself may slightly shorten the waiting time to draw a tag.

I would be interested in seeing the math on how that would change draw wait times.


Likely hardly at all…

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by gopher

I would be interested in seeing the math on how that would change draw wait times.


Likely hardly at all…

Why are people such fools? I have just said that there are more outfitter allocation than resident allocations in some zones and you don't think changing that would shorten wait times?

[residentguide]

Originally Posted by diamond k

Sorry for the derail but I dont know when it became a crime to be rewarded for working hard and being rewarded for doing so.

Sometimes life is not fair. I get it but if you can afford a prius you buy a prius. If you can afford a BMW and that is what you want that is what you buy.

You all talk about how the guys are whining about how this is not fair that a guys can pay a bit more for the potential opportunity. You are the same guys who go to work and whine cause that "guy" makes more money, or that "guy" gets all the breaks well you know what that "guy" probably worked harder. He did not go home and lay on the couch and complain after work. Seriously boys time to wipe away the tears and realize life gives you back what you put in

Do I think that we should make it impossible for guys to continue there hunting heritage and rights. No way, but I dont see anything wrong with making something as coveted as limited draw sheep tag something that should be valued accordingly.

Give it a rest with your entitlement crap cause you think you are better than a guy that has less cause you think you work harder than him. Your post is one of the most conceded post I have read in a while. I know guys that don't make much but work 100x harder than you cause they foster 13 kids and only eat wild game. So what is your point? You want to give your money to the government to waste cause you want to buy people out of a tag? How about tag priced are decided on what you make? Under $60,000 tags are $20. Salary over that they are $5000. But your sheep tag is $50 for less and $15,000 for you cause you have more.



Get over yourself.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by residentguide

Are you just looking to argue? I said it was wrong not you. I was agreeing with you on that one point but disagree with all of your original post.

The point that many outfitter tags should be eliminated?

[residentguide]

Originally Posted by chuck

Why are people such fools? I have just said that there are more outfitter allocation than resident allocations in some zones and you don't think changing that would shorten wait times?

What in one zone or two? Over all it will do nothing. Eliminating all these magic tags is going to do nothing. Same thing how the government over taxed us millions of dollars last year. If it was divided to all taxpayers it would be like 20 bucks. Whoopy big deal.

[gopher]

Originally Posted by chuck

Why are people such fools? I have just said that there are more outfitter allocation than resident allocations in some zones and you don't think changing that would shorten wait times?

Show me some math Chuck.

Priority 0 to a tag with outfitter allocations added to resident tags.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by residentguide

What in one zone or two? Over all it will do nothing. Eliminating all these magic tags is going to do nothing. Same thing how the government over taxed us millions of dollars last year. If it was divided to all taxpayers it would be like 20 bucks. Whoopy big deal.

If it's a zone that you hunt....then it is a big deal....and it does do something...

I have a feeling you are not aware of how things work regarding outfitter allocations and yearly surveys and tag allotments to residents....

LC

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by chuck

Why are people such fools? I have just said that there are more outfitter allocation than resident allocations in some zones and you don't think changing that would shorten wait times?

Coming in late here today I know, but in what WMU and for what species is here a higher allocation for outfitters than for residents? I would be concerned if that were true, but I'd like to know the facts. Could you post a link? Thanks.

[dmcbride]

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...71667212,d.aWw

[shooter]

Originally Posted by residentguide

Why is this? Don't you pay enough taxes?? Not one red cent goes to F&W so why should we pay more to pay some other crooked politicians pension or there retarded salary as they lie cheat and steal from taxpayers?

Has nothing to do with taxes. I think the intent of the discussion is to find ways to have equality in some draws but to also reduce wait periods between draw tags.... more of a brainstorm of ideas to see what everyone's thoughts are. Seems you've got your shorts in a knot over it.

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by residentguide

What in one zone or two? Over all it will do nothing. Eliminating all these magic tags is going to do nothing. Same thing how the government over taxed us millions of dollars last year. If it was divided to all taxpayers it would be like 20 bucks. Whoopy big deal.

But just think if everybody you had go into your bear camp, paid you an extra 20$. That would be like an extra 60 bucks to pay your kids

[Pathfinder76]

Look at the draw stats and then start making some phone calls. I'm not going to start dropping zone information here. But can sure ad.

[bergman]

Originally Posted by diamond k

Sorry for the derail but I dont know when it became a crime to be rewarded for working hard and being rewarded for doing so.

Sometimes life is not fair. I get it but if you can afford a prius you buy a prius. If you can afford a BMW and that is what you want that is what you buy.

You all talk about how the guys are whining about how this is not fair that a guys can pay a bit more for the potential opportunity. You are the same guys who go to work and whine cause that "guy" makes more money, or that "guy" gets all the breaks well you know what that "guy" probably worked harder. He did not go home and lay on the couch and complain after work. Seriously boys time to wipe away the tears and realize life gives you back what you put in

Do I think that we should make it impossible for guys to continue there hunting heritage and rights. No way, but I dont see anything wrong with making something as coveted as limited draw sheep tag something that should be valued accordingly.

People who could afford thousands for a a tag can already jump the line for whatever tag they want - just hire a guide, in Alberta or anywhere else for that matter. Go to the Yukon. Go to Africa. There is already a "Pay to Play" system that will drastically reduce your wait time. You could get a tag each and every year if you wanted to. If you feel like you want to do it yourself, then you can hire a guide and them tell him/her to stay at camp and fill the tag on your own.

No need for this massive overhaul idea that will price many low income folks out of the system.

[diamond k]

Originally Posted by bergman

People who could afford thousands for a a tag can already jump the line for whatever tag they want - just hire a guide, in Alberta or anywhere else for that matter. Go to the Yukon. Go to Africa. There is already a "Pay to Play" system that will drastically reduce your wait time. You could get a tag each and every year if you wanted to. If you feel like you want to do it yourself, then you can hire a guide and them tell him/her to stay at camp and fill the tag on your own.

No need for this massive overhaul idea that will price many low income folks out of the system.

First off the statement was more of a general statement that the whining by people that life is not fair is really getting tiring not just here but as a whole in our province.

Secondly all I was saying is that a coveted tag with very limited opportunity should carry more value that an over the counter deer tag. Make it a 500 dollar tag and it is billed to your credit card as soon as your drawn and I bet alot of the unused tags would go away.

Thirdly get your facts straight as an Alberta Resident you can not hire a guide with an allocation tag. You need to be a non resident.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by bergman

People who could afford thousands for a a tag can already jump the line for whatever tag they want - just hire a guide, in Alberta or anywhere else for that matter. Go to the Yukon. Go to Africa. There is already a "Pay to Play" system that will drastically reduce your wait time. You could get a tag each and every year if you wanted to. If you feel like you want to do it yourself, then you can hire a guide and them tell him/her to stay at camp and fill the tag on your own.

No need for this massive overhaul idea that will price many low income folks out of the system.

Please get your facts straight.

And for all. This notion that increasing costs within the draw system will somehow make this an elitist sport need to sit down with a calculator. Yes it will maybe make many, me included, prioritize their hunting. But that is the point.

[leeelmer]

I think the 999 should be eliminated compleatly. If you can't hunt that year then don't put in for the draw. If you can then put in. Auto charge of tag to credit card if drawn.
Limit draws to say 5 draws per year per person.
If you don't put in then priority stays the same. If you put in and don't get drawn then you get a point.
Would change stats greatly.
But just my 2 cents

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by leeelmer

I think the 999 should be eliminated compleatly. If you can't hunt that year then don't put in for the draw. If you can then put in. Auto charge of tag to credit card if drawn.
Limit draws to say 5 draws per year per person.
If you don't put in then priority stays the same. If you put in and don't get drawn then you get a point.
Would change stats greatly.
But just my 2 cents

This is a complete non issue as has been pointed out numerous times. I can create my own "999" anyway almost 100% of the time by just putting in for a zone that I know I won't get drawn in.

[residentguide]

Originally Posted by shooter

Has nothing to do with taxes. I think the intent of the discussion is to find ways to have equality in some draws but to also reduce wait periods between draw tags.... more of a brainstorm of ideas to see what everyone's thoughts are. Seems you've got your shorts in a knot over it.

I am ok. I just don't people should have to pay more cause you want you tag sooner. Get in line and wait just like everybody else. Deal with people that are screwing the system.

[leeelmer]

True but I bet 80% would not
Also I think $10 per draw would be great. Not a big fan of tag cost increases.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by residentguide

I am ok. I just don't people should have to pay more cause you want you tag sooner. Get in line and wait just like everybody else. Deal with people that are screwing the system.

Look no further than your apparent occupation.

[gopher]

Originally Posted by chuck

Look at the draw stats and then start making some phone calls. I'm not going to start dropping zone information here. But can sure ad.

Not sure why you responded to me if you had no intention of answering my question.

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by residentguide

I am ok. I just don't people should have to pay more cause you want you tag sooner. Get in line and wait just like everybody else. Deal with people that are screwing the system.

What about the tags that each year become impossible for new hunters to draw? or that are becoming once in a lifetime tags? Just wait in line?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by gopher

Not sure why you responded to me if you had no intention of answering my question.

I will tell you this. I know for a FACT that there are two zones that I hunt that this year have more outfitter allocations than resident allocations for Mule Deer. Another one has just under 50% outfitter allocation.

[elkhunter11]

People who could afford thousands for a a tag can already jump the line for whatever tag they want - just hire a guide, in Alberta or anywhere else for that matter.

You should at least make an effort to learn the regulations, before suggesting that an Alberta resident go out and hire an Alberta outfitter, in order to use one of his allocations to hunt in Alberta.

I will tell you this. I know for a FACT that there are two zones that I hunt that this year have more outfitter allocations than resident allocations for Mule Deer. Another one has just under 50% outfitter allocation.

It is also a fact, that there were more outfitter allocations, than resident tags for pronghorn in some zones, a few years ago. The resident tags were cut back by over 90%, while the outfitters kept all of their allocations.

I think the 999 should be eliminated compleatly. If you can't hunt that year then don't put in for the draw. If you can then put in. Auto charge of tag to credit card if drawn.
Limit draws to say 5 draws per year per person.
If you don't put in then priority stays the same. If you put in and don't get drawn then you get a point.
Would change stats greatly.
But just my 2 cents

Before 999 even existed, people were accomplishing the same thing by applying with people that they knew did not have enough priority to draw. Eliminating 999, would have those people resorting to that same practice.

[gopher]

Originally Posted by chuck

I will tell you this. I know for a FACT that there are two zones that I hunt that this year have more outfitter allocations than resident allocations for Mule Deer. Another one has just under 50% outfitter allocation.

There’s a people problem VS deer problem it is not with a few guides operating. There is a 14% annual increase every year in draw for mule deer adding a few measly tags here and there won’t do a thing.
BTW every zone will be on the target list for resident hunters regardless if they have ever stepped foot in it or not. If there’s a chance to pull a tag in your happy hunting grounds consider it gone

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by gopher

There’s a people problem VS deer problem it is not with a few guides operating. There is a 14% annual increase every year in draw for mule deer adding a few measly tags here and there won’t do a thing.
BTW every zone will be on the target list for resident hunters regardless if they have ever stepped foot in it or not. If there’s a chance to pull a tag in your happy hunting grounds consider it gone

I'm supposed to make sense of this? What in the world are you talking about?

[bergman]

Originally Posted by diamond k

First off the statement was more of a general statement that the whining by people that life is not fair is really getting tiring not just here but as a whole in our province.

Secondly all I was saying is that a coveted tag with very limited opportunity should carry more value that an over the counter deer tag. Make it a 500 dollar tag and it is billed to your credit card as soon as your drawn and I bet alot of the unused tags would go away.

Thirdly get your facts straight as an Alberta Resident you can not hire a guide with an allocation tag. You need to be a non resident.

That's fair - I never knew that about Alberta allocations, but then I have never hired a guide before either. So, yes, I had my fact wrong.

But still - there are already so many barriers to hunting a 'coveted' tag - but I stalwart believe it should be accessible to everyone of every economic class. If we start charging more for certain tags, we will continue charging more, then more, then more. I can guarantee there will always be a hunter with more cash than you, and when you get priced out you will feel the same way.

How would you even begin to decide what price would be ok? A $500 tag price would sure eliminate some, maybe most of the hunters from giving it a go. But $500 is pocket change for some people. They would still apply every year, and maybe not bother to try ti fill it either. Then we should bump it up to $1000? $5000? It's a slippery slope, and if we start charging more money then we will eventually charge MUCH more money, because if there is one thing that a gov't agency likes it is money.

I think a straight up lottery is best, on conditions in my previous comments. That said, we will never have the opportunities our predecessors had. Heck, in the 1920's and 30's goat were considered second rate animals and nearly hunted to extinction. You could have had unlimited goat tags back then. We will never go back to that (nor should we) and those draws that are virtually impossible to get now will probably stay that way, or get eliminated altogether. I prefer to see a fair and equal way of distributing what tags there are, and promoting habitat creation and preservation to increase the numbers of the tags available.

Thanks for correcting me on the Alberta outfitter tags. I think I've said my piece on this thread now. Will revert to bystander status.

[shooter]

Originally Posted by residentguide

I am ok. I just don't people should have to pay more cause you want you tag sooner. Get in line and wait just like everybody else. Deal with people that are screwing the system.

I actually 999 all my draws other than 438 sheep this year. I'm in the line but it's hard to see the finish with some draws. Tags that used to take 3-4 years now take 8 to 10 or more in some cases.

I have a priority 8 on Antlered mule deer and based on the 2014 draw summary report I may actually have a chance to draw it in 2015 if the numbers stayed the same.

Based on antlered moose in the area I prefer it's an average 9 years wait between draws. If I live to see 80 and am able to keep good health and fitness I am due to hunt moose 4 more times in life.... +/- It would be great for everyone's wait times to be reduced.

I'm not here looking out for my own interest, rather a way to reduce times for all hunters. If it came down to being required to pay higher fees for draw applications, licenses and I had to purchase any tag I drew immediately after the results came out, I would readily do so as long as it showed an improvement to the draw system.