Archery Mule Deer Draw for 2013 Season?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

not really mandatory registration for cwd. yes for cougar, and sheep etc.

Thats true...."suggested to be mandatory" would be a better description

LC

[mskrecek]

Been pursuing mule deer with both archery gear and rifle in Alberta since 1991 and in that time have only taken one 4x4 buck (1999 last time I was drawn) and that was with a rifle. I have yet to take a buck with my bow and its not like I haven't been trying. I've been close but things never worked out. Where I hunt I've never seen another bowhunter.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

further to this, i have seen the formula that srd uses to obtain their numbers on archery harvest. although i do believe that many wmu's are over the 15% limit, i am firmly of the opinion that the numbers they are calculating are completely false. once this becomes fully public, there is going to be some serious protesting.....and rightly so!

i have received permission to post this here. it is public information, but where i saw it is not public yet.

as soon as i figure out how to copy it i will post.

[wylecoyote]

Very interesting thread, thought I would add my two cents. If this truly is a game management issue, then why are they decreasing bowhuntin opportunities when they shpuld really be reducing rifle tag numbers. Where I hunt mulies, there is a three to four year wait on draw. I have no problem waiting another year if that would help the deer population. I have also bowhunted in this zone and have yet to connect on a muly buck. Its not easy sneaking within bow range of a decent mule deer with only rolling hills and buck brush as cover. From what I know about govt this feels like they are doing something for the sake of doing something. Many govt officials feel like they need to make new policies to justify their existence. Just my two cents.

[bowtech3006]

We need the draw. Poaching and overharvest in 'specific areas' srd needs more control of how many archers hunt a zone. Some archers in this province kill a buck every year. There's more people & equipment is vastly improved. Just as technology advances so does our need for limited entry hunting to ensure trophy quality.

[davebuck]

How many deer have been culled for
CW disease

[H380]

Originally Posted by wylecoyote

Very interesting thread, thought I would add my two cents. If this truly is a game management issue, then why are they decreasing bowhuntin opportunities when they shpuld really be reducing rifle tag numbers. Where I hunt mulies, there is a three to four year wait on draw. I have no problem waiting another year if that would help the deer population. I have also bowhunted in this zone and have yet to connect on a muly buck. Its not easy sneaking within bow range of a decent mule deer with only rolling hills and buck brush as cover. From what I know about govt this feels like they are doing something for the sake of doing something. Many govt officials feel like they need to make new policies to justify their existence. Just my two cents.

A reduction of rifle tags would never work .. That would be unfair .. LOL .Everybody nows the bowhunters get ALL the big bucks and are the sole reason for the reduction in trophy quality . Couldn't help myself wyle .. I agree with you totally .

[BigJon]

Originally Posted by H380

A reduction of rifle tags would never work .. That would be unfair .. LOL .Everybody nows the bowhunters get ALL the big bucks and are the sole reason for the reduction in trophy quality . Couldn't help myself wyle .. I agree with you totally .

Who are all the people that are saying that bowunters kill all the bucks and are the reason for reduction in trophy quality??

There may be one or two mis-informed people that are saying that but for the most part I see people saying that available data shows that many WMUs are at or above the 15% archery harvest allocation.

[Huevos]

Where does SRD get thier data? How do they know bowhunters exceed 15% harvest? Seems like volunteer harvest data surveys sent out every year are limiting hunting opportunities as this is the only place they can get info. Maybe think twice before filling it out this year. Just a thought.

[BigJon]

Originally Posted by Huevos

Where does SRD get thier data? How do they know bowhunters exceed 15% harvest? Seems like volunteer harvest data surveys sent out every year are limiting hunting opportunities as this is the only place they can get info. Maybe think twice before filling it out this year. Just a thought.

Totally a good idea man..............

[H380]

Originally Posted by BigJon

Who are all the people that are saying that bowunters kill all the bucks and are the reason for reduction in trophy quality??

There may be one or two mis-informed people that are saying that but for the most part I see people saying that available data shows that many WMUs are at or above the 15% archery harvest allocation.

I was being sarcastic Big Jon ... Like you and many others on here I'd like to see the actual numbers , don't think it's gonna happen .

[elkmakemecrazy]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

i have received permission to post this here. it is public information, but where i saw it is not public yet.

as soon as i figure out how to copy it i will post.

Any luck getting this information? I would be interested in seeing it.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by elkmakemecrazy

Any luck getting this information? I would be interested in seeing it.

ive had the information at my fingertips for a while now. a full report will be made in the upcoming ABA newsletter with all the info. that right there is yet another very good reason to join the ABA if you havent yet. members are regularly updated on the things that matter in our province.

i saw it when i did the proofing for the newsletter, but i needed permission to post here, and it has been granted. thing is, it is in a format that wont allow me to copy and paste the relevant info. soon as i figure out how to, i will get it posted here.

[huntin]

Maybe this has been covered but some of these zones only gave out 5 tags this year not hard for archery hunters to take 1 buck =20%

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by flyguyd

Awe come on Potty thats crap and you know it .There are a few bowhunters that care about the sport and the game ,that cultivate the the bucks and hold out for just the right one . A true trophy that might take 3-6 yrs of scouting and hard work to prouduce. You , Mamba , Droptine,ISB, to name a few.
But most of them shoot a buck every year because they can ,because the system allows them to . These are not cull bucks ,they are the best that they can find , generally 150 or better,not great bucks but bucks with potential that could become hogs in a year or two. If your going to wait 4 or 5 yrs between bucks anyway, then why is a draw such a problem ?

A while back I questioned the statement that some bowhunters shoot a buck every year. I questioned it because most "bowhunters" I know bought a bow, hunted a couple of seasons and then quit when they realized the effort involved. Even though that has been my experiance, it does not mean that there are not some that can and do shoot one every year. I should have posted this awhile ago, but did not. I apoligize for questioning you, without putting more thought into it.

[jryley]

So have we settled as a collective community that A) yes rifle tags should be knocked back even further, but also B) as limited as it it may be, archery needs to be put on draw to further help the cause?

Or do the hardcore archery guys want to be able to have
Their cake and eat it too?

My neighbor in my area has taken a mule buck the past three years with his bow. The smallest being a 3x3. You tell me how not having those buvks around breeding does in an already limited population zone
WOULDNT help the numbers and quality of game. Its pretty simple
Guys. Yes limit rifle tags, but even if only 1% of harvest comes from
Bows, thats 1% we otherwise wouldnt be contributing to
The cause. I have no clue how a guys ego could even remotely get in the way of that. Its sickening

[jryley]

To further my post. We arent talking about taking away archers hunting altogether, just limiting one species of deer that needs to rebound in many zones. If you arent willing to only chase whites while you build priority on mule then you really arent showing any form of a conservationist attitude, which in the end is pretty much what us as hunters are responsible for, that is conservation of our game species.

I commend the guys pulling for this. As the folk that are willing to take a 'pay cut', whether they be archers or firearms hunters, are truly the outdoorsmen.

I ask the opposers to consider this analogy. If youre a 20 year old making 40k a year and youre skimping and saving for a downpayment on a house, whos going to get into a home quicker?.....the guy that tucks away 200 bucks every month but also spends 30 at the bar every friday night? Or is it going to be the guy that drops every single penny of expendable income into his savings? You dont need an MBA to figure it out fellas.

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by jryley

So have we settled as a collective community that A) yes rifle tags should be knocked back even further, but also B) as limited as it it may be, archery needs to be put on draw to further help the cause?

Or do the hardcore archery guys want to be able to have
Their cake and eat it too?

My neighbor in my area has taken a mule buck the past three years with his bow. The smallest being a 3x3. You tell me how not having those buvks around breeding does in an already limited population zone
WOULDNT help the numbers and quality of game. Its pretty simple
Guys. Yes limit rifle tags, but even if only 1% of harvest comes from
Bows, thats 1% we otherwise wouldnt be contributing to
The cause. I have no clue how a guys ego could even remotely get in the way of that. Its sickening

I am sure that nothing has been settled. My post was merely to apoligize to someone for questioning their statement as to its validity.
As far as my stance on this issue goes, let me start by saying I can agree with certain aspects on each side of the arguement. Ultimately though, I feel that sure, any zone that has passed the 15% harvest rate by bow should be placed on draw and any zone that has not reached the 15% success rate shall be left as is.
However, I think the draw should be conducted such as the antelope draw in which you can apply for each of the archery and rifle hunt, while only able to draw one tag per successfully drawn season.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by jryley

To further my post. We arent talking about taking away archers hunting altogether, just limiting one species of deer that needs to rebound in many zones. If you arent willing to only chase whites while you build priority on mule then you really arent showing any form of a conservationist attitude, which in the end is pretty much what us as hunters are responsible for, that is conservation of our game species.

I commend the guys pulling for this. As the folk that are willing to take a 'pay cut', whether they be archers or firearms hunters, are truly the outdoorsmen.

I ask the opposers to consider this analogy. If youre a 20 year old making 40k a year and youre skimping and saving for a downpayment on a house, whos going to get into a home quicker?.....the guy that tucks away 200 bucks every month but also spends 30 at the bar every friday night? Or is it going to be the guy that drops every single penny of expendable income into his savings?
You dont need an MBA to figure it out fellas.

Basing results on a voluntary survey, is playing with fire. When it's not scientifically based, there's are real problem to conforming to changes , that may have no warrant.

Anyone who is against the mule deer draw, isn't trying to eat his cake too. They are realists, they want hard evidence, with extensive research, depicting real numbers. Then we want suggested solutions, and options, with a % based recovery rate from each solution. If you can't see that, then get in position and follow your flock. Anyone with a little business sense , would agree with me.

If Esrd, can actually prove what they are preaching, does anyone really think the best recovery plan for mule deer, is an archery draw. Seriously that's the best we can do?

There more hidden agenda here, than meets the eye guys. Just need to open your mind, who benefits from this, and I don't mean the deer.

[AlbertaSasquatch]

How about completely removing landowner tags? That sounds like a sound strategy to me.

[jryley]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Basing results on a voluntary survey, is playing with fire. When it's not scientifically based, there's are real problem to conforming to changes , that may have no warrant.

Anyone who is against the mule deer draw, isn't trying to eat his cake too. They are realists, they want hard evidence, with extensive research, depicting real numbers. Then we want suggested solutions, and options, with a % based recovery rate from each solution. If you can't see that, then get in position and follow your flock. Anyone with a little business sense , would agree with me.

If Esrd, can actually prove what they are preaching, does anyone really think the best recovery plan for mule deer, is an archery draw. Seriously that's the best we can do?

There more hidden agenda here, than meets the eye guys. Just need to open your mind, who benefits from this, and I don't mean the deer.

yet again potty you side step the point, that is along with every other option they need implement, archery draw for
Mule will again, if only a fraction of a
Percent will have a positive effect. Why can you
Not see this? Again, as i stated before, if 2 animals in a wmu make it through a season or two solely because of an archery draw then that in itself is a success. I cant figure out why you are so opposed to this? No one wants to take away yours or my opportunity to get out with our bows and hunt! Limiting mule tags doesnt do that. If youre not confident in your ability to hunt WT well then i can understand your stance. Still doesnt make it right.

[backcountryjlaf]

I'm curious if the people posting about the archery season being two months is a joke have any idea how hard it is to take a deer with a Bow. I would live to see some stats on the number or hunter hours per archery deer vs rifle deer. I bet you it's more than 10-1. I would bet money that if you let archers hunt all year long ( I am in no way for this ) and there would still be way less deer taken than with the rifle.

I bowhunt because for a few months of the year I can sit in a tree and not have people drive around where I'm hunting ( on my own land, and no thy don't have permission). For all of the rifle hunters out there who are opposed to how hunting privledges, do you have any idea how frustrating it is trying to hunt the rut from a treestand and having countless people shooting at the does and small bucks you've been watching for an hour.

I would be all for the archery rifle trade if it meant that rifle guys couldn't hunt the rut every second year. Do you really think people would make this trade??

[mhd]

Originally Posted by backcountryjlaf

i'm curious if the people posting about the archery season being two months is a joke have any idea how hard it is to take a deer with a bow. I would live to see some stats on the number or hunter hours per archery deer vs rifle deer. I bet you it's more than 10-1. I would bet money that if you let archers hunt all year long ( i am in no way for this ) and there would still be way less deer taken than with the rifle.

I bowhunt because for a few months of the year i can sit in a tree and not have people drive around where i'm hunting ( on my own land, and no thy don't have permission). For all of the rifle hunters out there who are opposed to how hunting privledges, do you have any idea how frustrating it is trying to hunt the rut from a treestand and having countless people shooting at the does and small bucks you've been watching for an hour.

I would be all for the archery rifle trade if it meant that rifle guys couldn't hunt the rut every second year. Do you really think people would make this trade??

x 1000!

[H380]

Originally Posted by AlbertaSasquatch

How about completely removing landowner tags? That sounds like a sound strategy to me.

Sure , cause combined with bow hunters they take way more bucks than they should be allowed doesn't matter that they are feeding your so called wild game ... Here's another idea .. let's do away with rifle tags altogether and allow only bowhunting for mules . You want to see numbers come back ? Betcha this would be the fastest method .. also bet nobody thought of this did they ? Cut all rifle hunting of mule deer , draw tags or general , for say 5 years and watch the population numbers skyrocket .You want more muleys ? Keep the rifle guys from slaughtering em . Let the flaming begin !! LOL ..

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by jryley

yet again potty you side step the point, that is along with every other option they need implement, archery draw for
Mule will again, if only a fraction of a
Percent will have a positive effect. Why can you
Not see this? Again, as i stated before, if 2 animals in a wmu make it through a season or two solely because of an archery draw then that in itself is a success. I cant figure out why you are so opposed to this? No one wants to take away yours or my opportunity to get out with our bows and hunt! Limiting mule tags doesnt do that. If youre not confident in your ability to hunt WT well then i can understand your stance. Still doesnt make it right.

Opposed to it because, there are 0 ( zero) facts to support it.

Lol. Cute whitetail comment.... Some people enjoy hunting rats, I do it when I'm bored . I mean all it takes is a couple hours in a stand!

[jryley]

Potty I have a feeling your fighting the mule archery fight for all the wrong reasons. And that is because its the easier of the two for you to put a tag on. Which in itself speaks volumes.

Rifle tags are already on draw for most WMU's. Whynot make it uniform across the board? Or eliminate all across the board? I know id support this! You wonder why there is a divide between many bow and rifle hunters. You sir truly exude the cliche attitude of many bow hunters that 'i bow hunt, im the real deal, and everyone else can pound sand because until theyre in my class they havent earned their stripes'.

This is more than a conservation issue, which you fail to see. When the hunting community collectivelly comes to a uniform agreement, and one that is not necessarily 'fair' to just you, or me, or anyone else for that matter that shoots a bow, but one that is PERCIEVED to be fair and not playing favorites, then we will actually make progress with our lifestyle that is hunting. Everytime you tell a rifle hunter, or a landowner that the blame falls solely on 'their group' you force our community to take two steps back. Which is ridiculous. Frankly i would be in full support o mule hunting being closed province wide for a few years! I havea feeling you wouldnt! Until we all look in the mirror, and again as a collective community of sportsmen, accept the fact that we are all to blame in one way or another, nothings going to improve.

And just to clarify potty, i do respect your opinion, if not for the sheer passion you have for bow hunting. I wish i hadyour passion for manythings
In life. So kudos to you for standin true to your beliefs. Im just saying that, we are all right an we are all wrong, but we need to take care of business per say as a group as opposed to many sub special interest groups

[Zuludog]

Wow this thread is still going. I think bow hunters aren't the problem. This is only my first season with the bow but it is very hard (even for a WT, Potty lol.) and I doubt bow hunters account for lots of MD taken. Limiting them is not even a band aid solution to helping the MD populations recover as bow hunters harvest so few animals.

That being said if the populations are in that bad of a situation then if we as sportsman, (no matter how we hunt) truly want them to recover we ALL need to buck up and do what it takes. I'd think if you want the Mule deer to come back, the quickest way to do that is to close the season to EVERYONE for a few years. Seems pretty simple to me. We ALL have to "take on for the team".

On a related note is poaching having a huge effect on Mulie populations? Seems like there are more and more stories everyday about poaching and tress passing. I'm sure these but heads aren't helping the situation either. I'd be up for a slight, just slight, increase in tag cost to pay for more F&W officers to help catch more poachers.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by jryley

Potty I have a feeling your fighting the mule archery fight for all the wrong reasons. And that is because its the easier of the two for you to put a tag on. Which in itself speaks volumes.

Rifle tags are already on draw for most WMU's. Whynot make it uniform across the board? Or eliminate all across the board? I know id support this! You wonder why there is a divide between many bow and rifle hunters. You sir truly exude the cliche attitude of many bow hunters that 'i bow hunt, im the real deal, and everyone else can pound sand because until theyre in my class they havent earned their stripes'.

This is more than a conservation issue, which you fail to see. When the hunting community collectivelly comes to a uniform agreement, and one that is not necessarily 'fair' to just you, or me, or anyone else for that matter that shoots a bow, but one that is PERCIEVED to be fair and not playing favorites,
then we will actually make progress with our lifestyle that is hunting. Everytime you tell a rifle hunter, or a landowner that the blame falls solely on 'their group' you force our community to take two steps back. Which is ridiculous. Frankly i would be in full support o mule hunting being closed province wide for a few years! I havea feeling you wouldnt! Until we all look in the mirror, and again as a collective community of sportsmen, accept the fact that we are all to blame in one way or another, nothings going to improve.

And just to clarify potty, i do respect your opinion, if not for the sheer passion
you have for bow hunting. I wish i hadyour passion for manythings
In life. So kudos to you for standin true to your beliefs. Im just saying that, we are all right an we are all wrong, but we need to take care of business per say as a group as opposed to many sub special interest groups

2 mule deer in the last 10 years. It's like a draw already! I enjoy hunting mule deer, because they are challenging. Its whitetail, that i find easy and boring.....and actually I don't think they look that good on the wall. I dont know how you got that idea, you got, but its seriously wrong. Sheep on draw, mule deer on draw, that pretty much eliminates all hunting for me. I don't have a passion for other critters.

And truth be told, I've counted over 400 guaranteed different mule does and fawns in an hour, in the zone I hunt. With in 5 km of each other, and it still doesn't include the best muley spots in that zone. And that doesn't even scratch the surface.

Again, I'll say it, which you have yet to acknowledge, show me the facts, and the numbers. Don't you want to see the truth?

A voluntary survey, is not scientific ...... Take any poll you see on AO, and imagine they changed the rules, based on AO polls,......scary!

[pottymouth]

Another thing. Landowners, who have land in zones that don't have a mule deer draw, don't have landowner tags. But there are landowners actively pursuing , to make sure they are entitled to landowner tags, like the rest of the province. Once the muledeer draw is in effect in their zone.

So to put it in perspective, bowhunting will be on draw, but landowners that didn't have landowner tags in those zones before, now will!

Crunch the numbers ........ And ask yourself this, do you believe bowhunters take more mule deer than landowners, and rifle guys in the draw zones? I seriously doubt it !

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by jryley

Potty I have a feeling your fighting the mule archery fight for all the wrong reasons. And that is because its the easier of the two for you to put a tag on. Which in itself speaks volumes.

Rifle tags are already on draw for most WMU's. Whynot make it uniform across the board? Or eliminate all across the board? I know id support this! You wonder why there is a divide between many bow and rifle hunters. You sir truly exude the cliche attitude of many bow hunters that 'i bow hunt, im the real deal, and everyone else can pound sand because until theyre in my class they havent earned their stripes'.

This is more than a conservation issue, which you fail to see. When the hunting community collectivelly comes to a uniform agreement, and one that is not necessarily 'fair' to just you, or me, or anyone else for that matter that shoots a bow, but one that is PERCIEVED to be fair and not playing favorites, then we will actually make progress with our lifestyle that is hunting. Everytime you tell a rifle hunter, or a landowner that the blame falls solely on 'their group' you force our community to take two steps back. Which is ridiculous. Frankly i would be in full support o mule hunting being closed province wide for a few years! I havea feeling you wouldnt! Until we all look in the mirror, and again as a collective community of sportsmen, accept the fact that we are all to blame in one way or another, nothings going to improve.

And just to clarify potty, i do respect your opinion, if not for the sheer passion you have for bow hunting. I wish i hadyour passion for manythings
In life. So kudos to you for standin true to your beliefs. Im just saying that, we are all right an we are all wrong, but we need to take care of business per say as a group as opposed to many sub special interest groups

This issue should ONLY be about conservation. My perception is that things are already fair. ANYONE can purchase a bow and hunt with it.