Fort McMurray Fires

[oddball_ted]

Ezra's like Canada's Nancy Grace. But they are calling out the NDP on some real issues.

[6.5x47]

Originally Posted by 2 Tollers

I read this in the Edmonton Sun on how the fire was first found and the rapidness in which it spread. Seems like the ability to react quickly would be really difficult due to dry conditions on the ground.


" When the inferno consuming northern Alberta was first discovered at 4 p.m. last Sunday, it was a meagre two-hectare blaze. Now it's so vicious, crews will be fighting it for months to come.

Fire crews stumbled across the fire while on motorized patrol, and immediately tried to get it under control.

They brought in air tankers — four of them — but within two hours, it had grown to 60 hectares, or 0.6 square kilometres.




On Saturday morning, it had ballooned to 1,560 square kilometres. By the end of day, it was expected to mushroom to 2,500 square kilometres and reach the Saskatchewan border"


http://www.edmontonsun.com/2016/05/0...tchewan-border

The fire started on the previous Friday. More revisionist history to suit the false narrative.

[play.soccer]

http://www.630ched.com/2016/05/09/103917/

Gastroenteritis illness now at the Northlands complex among evacuees.

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by 6.5x47

The fire started on the previous Friday. More revisionist history to suit the false narrative.

And here comes the forestry bashing...

[silverdoctor]

So how is it looking up that way now? Little bit of rain, cooler temps...?

[Mistagin]

Wrong. My wife saw the first plume of smoke rising on SUNDAY afternoon from where she works.

[6.5x47]

The fire started on Friday April 29th. Air resources were not provided until Sunday May 1st. Let's cover our negligence by changing the date the fire started. Or maybe they'll say it was technically a different fire. Whatever, pick the narrative that appeases your world view.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2671860/wi...media-reports/

[whiteout]

Originally Posted by 6.5x47

The fire started on Friday April 29th. Air resources were not provided until Sunday May 1st. Let's cover our negligence by changing the date the fire started. Or maybe they'll say it was technically a different fire. Whatever, pick the narrative that appeases your world view.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2671860/wi...media-reports/

So according to you, Alberta Wildfire is lying when they say that their firefighters discovered the fire and immediately tried to get it under control, including using water bombers.

Other than a report of a fire that was brought under control in a few hours, do you have any actual proof of your claim?

[chuck0039]

Interesting to hear on the news that anybody who was granted access in the city had to sign non disclosure forms. Any body have any ideas why? Never heard of that before or it just was never announced at other disasters about these forms needing to be signed

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by chuck0039

Interesting to hear on the news that anybody who was granted access in the city had to sign non disclosure forms. Any body have any ideas why? Never heard of that before or it just was never announced at other disasters about these forms needing to be signed

It could be something as simple as protecting the privacy of other citizens of Ft Mac. Let's say you're accessing a burnt out neighborhood and see the remains of a neighbor's home and being as there are no walls left standing you can see that he has 4 gun vaults left standing, that fellow might not want the world to know of his possessions. I say this because in my Facebook feed I've seen a photo of a burnt up motorcycle in Ft Mac and visible behind it was a cheap vault that was easy to recognize. Some things do not need to be shared.

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by 6.5x47

The fire started on Friday April 29th. Air resources were not provided until Sunday May 1st. Let's cover our negligence by changing the date the fire started. Or maybe they'll say it was technically a different fire. Whatever, pick the narrative that appeases your world view.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2671860/wi...media-reports/

Aw stuff it. We were there and experienced it. Media is not always right. There was no fire Friday. There was a small one Saturday 750 meters or so from my house don in the Horse River valley. It was quickly extinguished. I have pics to prove it. The big fire got started Sunday afternoon. We saw the smoke. No smoke therefore no fire Sunday morning. Assets put another smaller one out on the north side of town right beside hwy 63. I watched them do so then go to tackle the one that got away out of control.

[chuck0039]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

It could be something as simple as protecting the privacy of other citizens of Ft Mac. Let's say you're accessing a burnt out neighborhood and see the remains of a neighbor's home and being as there are no walls left standing you can see that he has 4 gun vaults left standing, that fellow might not want the world to know of his possessions. I say this because in my Facebook feed I've seen a photo of a burnt up motorcycle in Ft Mac and visible behind it was a cheap vault that was easy to recognize. Some things do not need to be shared.

Makes sense, never thought of it like that. Thanks

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by chuck0039

Interesting to hear on the news that anybody who was granted access in the city had to sign non disclosure forms. Any body have any ideas why? Never heard of that before or it just was never announced at other disasters about these forms needing to be signed

I could tell you why.............But then I'd have to kill you........lol

In all seriousness though, it does seem strange. Just what is it you might see that you should'nt tell anyone about?

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by chuck0039

Makes sense, never thought of it like that. Thanks

Its just one theory that came to mind, I'm not sure what other things it might be applied to.

[roper1]

Try as I might to see what I'm missing, it's eluding me!! The spectacle of that fire & the damage & disruption it caused to the city was preventable.

I wouldn't want to live in a treeless city, but the lack of a firebreak is a huge mistake.

A lot of farmers plow fire-breaks in their stubble every fall, it is just common sense preventive management.

I hope every community in Alberta learns how to mitigate their risk from this disaster.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by roper1

I wouldn't want to live in a treeless city, but the lack of a firebreak is a huge mistake.

A lot of farmers plow fire-breaks in their stubble every fall, it is just common sense preventive management.

Cities grow. Some like Fort Mac grow very rapidly. I wonder how effective and how practical a firebreak could be in that situation.

As for farmers making fire breaks every fall, I'm sure one or two do, but I don't know any that do and I've been around farms all my life, I've worked as a farm employee many times over the years and at present am working on one of the larger farms in the area. And I'm a member of board with the local Agriculture Society. Not to mention that I come from a very large family whose members are mostly farmers and the majority of my close friends are farmers, yet I don't know anyone who makes fire breaks around their fields every fall. Not even with the present drought conditions.

I'd even hazard a guess as to why I don't see farmers making fire breaks.
It's probably because there isn't enough left in most fields after harvest to support a fire.

But maybe further south there is more left in the fields, and maybe down there they do as you say. I can only speak for what I know.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

Its just one theory that came to mind, I'm not sure what other things it might be applied to.

I'm thinking it may have more to do with media loving a sensational accusation.

If I were responsible for managing that city right now I wouldn't want some of our AO high jump specialists having a look and then talking to the media.

It's bad enough with them not having a clue what they are talking about.
Imagine if they could claim they had first hand knowledge!

[skidderman]

Originally Posted by Sashi

Should fire breaks of say 500 meters be made compulsory for communities in Coniferous forested areas?

From my experience 500 meters would help but not much. It might slow down the embers to a degree. A kilometer would be much better but because of the barrenness of such distance I doubt it would ever happen. In forestry there is generally a 500 meter reserve or something to that effect of trees left along the road so that cut overs will not be seen. At least it used to be that way. All that was, was a bridge for the fires to easily cross the road. In my mind it would have been much better to have 500 meter reserve 500 meters away from the road but of course the public would not like that. They want the cake & the icing & in so doing it makes things more difficult in situations like this. One thing for sure. There are no easy answers are there? Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

[CaberTosser]

How about those suggested firebreaks have significant sprinkler systems? Irrigate the fire break during dry spells with raw river water.

I know the expense would be pretty huge, but heck, its only speculation anyways!

[Full Curl Earl]

Preparing for an anomaly like this with 1 km fire breaks is not the solution in my mind. This fire started in terribly dry conditions, decent winds and in a place that allowed it to prosper. Its a shame of course, but I doubt any of us will see another incident of this magnitude in our lifetimes. If there is anything to be learnt from this, and there are many, I'd say its that the people in this country have renewed my faith in man kind.

[58thecat]

Yep when the odds stack up against you, you are screwed, this was the senerio here for sure. Hot temps, high winds, small fires and super dry conditions.
A recipe for disaster.

Now the whole province is wide awake to the high risk fire potential of our dry season we have had so far.

We need weeks of rain.

[Dog_River]

Not that it matters at this point but I have not heard any reporting on how the fires started in the first place ?

Any information on that ?

Dog_River

[elkhunter11]

I just heard from a friend that is supposedly back to work at Suncor starting Sunday. He tells me that some RMWB employees are currently staying at the Clearwater hotel. His home was apparently untouched by the fire, but he won't know about smoke damage until he is allowed into the subdivision.

[oddball_ted]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

......, but I doubt any of us will see another incident of this magnitude in our lifetimes. If there is anything to be learnt from this, and there are many, I'd say its that the people in this country have renewed my faith in man kind.

Just seems like an Alberta's seen a few of these once in a lifetime events over the last few years: major floods, two northern towns decimated by wildfire, billions in hail storm damages... OK. .. maybe the hail wasn't once in a lifetime. ..

[thirty-30]

I love this so much.

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by oddball_ted

Just seems like an Alberta's seen a few of these once in a lifetime events over the last few years: major floods, two northern towns decimated by wildfire, billions in hail storm damages... OK. .. maybe the hail wasn't once in a lifetime. ..

IMO the term "once in a lifetime" is thrown around way too freely. This is not a once in a lifetime fire by any means.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

Preparing for an anomaly like this with 1 km fire breaks is not the solution in my mind. This fire started in terribly dry conditions, decent winds and in a place that allowed it to prosper. Its a shame of course, but I doubt any of us will see another incident of this magnitude in our lifetimes. If there is anything to be learnt from this, and there are many, I'd say its that the people in this country have renewed my faith in man kind.

I'd like to add that there were barricades throughout the city where they were fighting the fire along the treelines and citizens were going through these baricades to take pics of the fire. In doing so, bombers werent able to bomb in those areas as citizens were in the drop zones and in the way.

[Sashi]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Yes it jumped from one tinder box to another. A forest trying to ignite buildings on fire is a much more difficult thing at 500m .

I have to agree with you.

IMO The firefighters were able to save the downtown area, because there was room to fight any flareups from burning embers, and there was no flames leaping through the area. Where forest was next to the housing developments, there was little chance to effectively fight the fire. Fire breaks plus access and room to fight should go a long ways to minimizing the damage to town sites.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

IMO the term "once in a lifetime" is thrown around way too freely. This is not a once in a lifetime fire by any means.

You are correct. I can think of a large number of towns that could suffer the same unfortunate events at any time. Fire suppression creating old growth forests and large tracts of beetle kill (further to the west) are creating ideal conditions for more "once in a lifetime" fires

Originally Posted by Sashi

I have to agree with you.

IMO The firefighters were able to save the downtown area, because there was room to fight any flareups from burning embers, and there was no flames leaping through the area. Where forest was next to the housing developments, there was little chance to effectively fight the fire. Fire breaks plus access and room to fight should go a long ways to minimizing the damage to town sites.

I am certainly no expert in wildfire control (although have taken BC fire suppression courses, which still makes me no expert), but I can only think barriers/buffers would help to a certain degree.
I remember working in Tumbler Ridge when the beetles were wreaking havoc up there. Thought to myself, sure is a nice little town, surrounded on all sides by forest, but just imagine how fast it would go up if a fire came thru....why no buffers....

[6.5x47]

Originally Posted by whiteout

So according to you, Alberta Wildfire is lying when they say that their firefighters discovered the fire and immediately tried to get it under control, including using water bombers.

Other than a report of a fire that was brought under control in a few hours, do you have any actual proof of your claim?

I have been following the story in the media since Sunday May 1st. When things took a turn for the worse on Tuesday, I listened intently to the radioathon coverage on Chorus. It was repeated ad noseum that the fire initially started on the previous Friday and was obviously not fully extinguished, and wildfire management never anticipated the wind changing direction . There were Numerous callers questioning the delayed response from gov't, and were quickly dropped. In my day, albertan's wouldn't have tolerated this bs, let alone be afraid to question the narrative. This province has been destroyed by the immigration of Eastern sycophants, no wonder we have an ndp govt.