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[russ]

Originally Posted by Rob Miskosky

Again, technology is changing and scopes for compounds are catching up and in a hurry.

Actually Rob, the technology for bow sights hasn't changed much in the last 15 years. More robust designs for sure, but the technology reached its peak in the mid 90's. My target scope is a Sure-Loc Supreme and it was built around 2000 and unless you're an expert you can't tell it apart from one built in 2009.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Rob Miskosky

Sorry Potty, you ain't going to stop technology. The traditional guys couldn't.

Nope your right, but bows with a scope, usually need a clairifier , and that means 2 arms adjusting, and compensating trying to get a steady sigth line.

Where rifle scopes are inclosed and alot easier to steady, cause of the tube design( technology)

[blackmamba]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

You really aren't listening are you. Guns have scopes because they can shoot at extended ranges where magnification becomes important. I can shoot 1.5-2 inch groups all day long with open sights at 100 yards. Where magnification becomes critical in a hunting situation is beyond that. As we are talking sub 50 yards for the most part here, magnification offers up negligible advantage in a hunting situation.

And yes, I have numerous guns with open sights that I'm very comfortable shooting at an animal 100 yards or less away.

A 100 yards or less hey !! Thats pretty good , but thats like me shooting a gopher at less than 20 with my bow. !!! I am listening sheep and am aware of scope capabilities , but then tell y on ur tv shows are your crossbows equiped with scopes !!

Its called reasurance of less human error same as on a gun !!

[blackmamba]

Originally Posted by russ

Actually Rob, the technology for bow sights hasn't changed much in the last 15 years. More robust designs for sure, but the technology reached its peak in the mid 90's. My target scope is a Sure-Loc Supreme and it was built around 2000 and unless you're an expert you can't tell it apart from one built in 2009.

Hey russ ,

you got a scope on your hunting set up ??? why or why not !! i am just curious ... thanks

[Rob Miskosky]

It's called technology russ, and it's here.

Here are a few features from an Oneida bow scope:

• The small beam of light (red dot) reflects from sight to shooter, which eliminates the need for two-point aiming
• You shoot with both eyes open and head up
• The red dot does not project onto the target
• TWO YEAR limited warranty
• 3-volt lithium battery included
• 33mm sight tube, 6061 T-6 aluminum
• 27mm objective diameter
• 5.55" long and weighs just 5.45 oz.
• Remarkably crisp 3 MOA Dot
• 11 different brightness settings
• Non-magnification
• Polarizing filter
• Front and rear extension tubes included.
• Works well in all light conditions
• Field of View: 11 yards at 55 feet
• Requires 33mm Extruded Rings for mounting
• Our 33mm sights can be mounted on any of our mounting systems.

I don't profess to be an expert on scopes but the fact of the matter is it's a scope designed for a compound bow.

Now go ahead, pick it apart. Fact is, the resemblance between a crossbow and a compound bow just keeps getting closer and closer.

Originally Posted by blackmamba

A 100 yards or less hey !! Thats pretty good , but thats like me shooting a gopher at less than 20 with my bow. !!! I am listening sheep and am aware of scope capabilities , but then tell y on ur tv shows are your crossbows equiped with scopes !!

Its called reasurance of less human error same as on a gun !!

So less human error means more clean kills and less animals running around with arrows hanging out of them? Sounds like all archery hunting should be performed with crossbows

[Rob Miskosky]

Originally Posted by blackmamba

Its called reasurance of less human error same as on a gun !!

And the problem with that is?

Originally Posted by blackmamba

A 100 yards or less hey !! Thats pretty good , but thats like me shooting a gopher at less than 20 with my bow. !!! I am listening sheep and am aware of scope capabilities , but then tell y on ur tv shows are your crossbows equiped with scopes !!

Its called reasurance of less human error same as on a gun !!

We don't hunt with crossbows on our tv show and if you go back several posts, you'll see why most crossbows have scopes on them. Add to that, it's a type of sight that most people are familiar with and it makes for an easy sell. Quite honestly, at sub 50 yards I could put the same amount of arrows into the vitals with a scope as I could with a pin sight. A peep and pins basically offers up the same amount of human error as a scope in a hunting situation under 50 yards. Take the peep out of the picture then ya, I'd agree but I'm guessing you shoot a peep...for reassuirance and to take out the human error?

[shedcrazy]

Well shed, I'll let my 14-year-old know you think he's greedy.

Got to love the kid card.

Since you want to talk about kids mine would like to bow hunt mule deer and elk near home with a compound (they already have one) since we are hours away from any general season for either sps....I'll them know you think the same!
My twin girls could convince him to go hunt with a compound in a few yrs...

Now back to the discussion...

I look at what would benefit more hunters. The province wide general seasons on multi sps or being left with a general WTDE season.

I would be curious to know how many hunters that have been following this thread would still want xbows included in the archery season if that meant only WTDE and more draws (Yes Rob, I won't forget your boy!)?

[Rob Miskosky]

Sounds like we got the same problem Shed!

I look at what would benefit more hunters. The province wide general seasons on multi sps or being left with a general WTDE season.

If your predictions of a mass influx of x-bow hunters are correct, then likely the x-bow shooters would benefit more. Yes, they are also rifle hunters but so too are 95% of bow hunters.

[blackmamba]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

We don't hunt with crossbows on our tv show and if you go back several posts, you'll see why most crossbows have scopes on them. Add to that, it's a type of sight that most people are familiar with and it makes for an easy sell. Quite honestly, at sub 50 yards I could put the same amount of arrows into the vitals with a scope as I could with a pin sight. A peep and pins basically offers up the same amount of human error as a scope in a hunting situation under 50 yards. Take the peep out of the picture then ya, I'd agree but I'm guessing you shoot a peep?

I have shot both when it comes to hunting and ya I always resort back to a peep !! Why its because its just another tool to assure proper allignment and to eliminate error !!

Having a scope on a crossbow is completely different than having one on a bow , and if its used as aselling feature then y dont bows come equiped with them !! CAUSE SCOPES ARE FOR ADVANCED SHOOTERS !!

pick up a gun or cross bow put a scope on it and sight it in end of story whats so hard about that !!!

Is your show not sponsered by excalibur xbows ??

[Rob Miskosky]

Originally Posted by blackmamba

Is your show not sponsered by excalibur xbows ??

I realize you just jumped in to this but you should read the other threads on the issue as well.

[shedcrazy]

If your predictions of a mass influx of x-bow hunters are correct, then likely the x-bow shooters would benefit more. Yes, they are also rifle hunters but so too are 95% of bow hunters.

I actually never said that at all. No need to twist words. I think it was you that thought harvest would double and SRD that the harvest would be enough to put other sps on draw.

Remember I am the one looking for actual data.

Sounds like we got the same problem Shed!

Young kids thinking about hunting is not a problem

[russ]

Originally Posted by blackmamba

Hey russ ,

you got a scope on your hunting set up ??? why or why not !! i am just curious ... thanks

no, it's not practical @ 20 yds I'd see nothing but hair, even if I stuck to using my 2x I'd have nothing but trouble. Even @ 50 yds there'd be trouble. Couldn't imagine lining up on a moose with my 2x & clarifier. God doesn't put the 10x in exactly the same spot with the same marks every time. Mckenzie & Rienhart on the other hand do.

Then there's the potential for reflections off the optics, it's not like a rifle or crossbow scope where you stuff a birds nest in it and still see well enough to use it.

Theres also the issue of light, I have a terrible time with targets stuck in dark spaces. Archery scopes just aren't designed to gather light, so the darker the ambient light is, the harder it is to see. In 3D I've had problems with this @ 2 in the afternoon with clear skies.

Lastly, lets not forget lens glare. I dunno, but even with a hood @ Indoor Nationals I still had glare on my scope on ranges A & B. In fact, bad enough that I would have passed the shots in real hunting situations. I did alright, but guessing where the kill zone is on an animal isn't practical in real life.

Finally BM, are you trying to get me started? I mean really, I haven't even gotten around to dealing with parallax, peep size, scope size & something called the circle of the confusion. All of which have an affect on sight clarity.

[shedcrazy]

If I lose all my local archery hunting to the draw I will just stalk TJ in K-country chasing rams until that is on a draw!

Keep your arrow nocked and ummmm your safety on???..

S

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

If your predictions of a mass influx of x-bow hunters are correct, then likely the x-bow shooters would benefit more. Yes, they are also rifle hunters but so too are 95% of bow hunters.

Where did you get the 95% number from???

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by blackmamba

I am very aware of scope mounting capabilties on a compound and you can even put a clarifier in the peep if need be !! but let me ask you this , have you ever used a scope on ur bow for hunting ???? probably not !!! 90% of scope users are for target or indoor shooting !! oh thats right it because you have time to adjust for yardage in those cituation !! In a hunting cituation 8 out of 10 time you dont !!

This thread has become almost as laughable as this comment. Are you trying to say that 90% of the guys sitting in a tree stand don't have time to range their targets first? Eveybody need to agree to disagree on this subject, go have a beer and relax.

[russ]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Take the peep out of the picture then ya, I'd agree but I'm guessing you shoot a peep

the peep's primary job in a hunting set up is to provide a consistent anchor point. Many people (trads that shoot well in particular) resolve the lack of a peep by establishing good strong consistent anchor points. You can also see some excellent examples of this in the Olympic recurve crowd. The men shoot amazing scores out to 90m without a peep or magnification.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

This thread has become almost as laughable as this comment. Are you trying to say that 90% of the guys sitting in a tree stand don't have time to range their targets first? Eveybody need to agree to disagree on this subject, go have a beer and relax.

Dave , it's not they don't have time to range, he's saying that most bowhunters use pins sights because it's quicker and less movement. Because using a scope on your bow, you don't have time to adjust the single pin to the distance.

[blackmamba]

Sheep if you think for one second shooting a bow at 50 yards with out major practice and to be consistant your out to lunch !!! the capabilities of a cross bow are those of a gun ..

QUOTE

First day at the range with my new Excalibur crossbow, I got the Exocet200 model , with arrow speeds of 330 fps . Zeroing the scope in on my Sidekick block was straightforward and in 4 bolts I had the bow dead on at 20 yards .My Exocet scope is adjustable for arrow speed and has aiming triangles spaced down the vertical reticule post .Once you adjust the scope for your bolt speed each triangle is supposed to represent 10 yard elevation corrections .My boys Matt and Jake were along with me and kept shuffling the block back at 10 yard increments .The scope worked exactly as promised and the accuracy of the Exocet was nothing short of unbelievabl as perfect 50 yard bulls were easily attainable especially by the boys who were probably a little steadier than the old man !!

Its just my opinion that cross bows are those of the same capabilities of a gun just with a shorter distance !! JMO ....

[russ]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

you don't have time to adjust the single pin to the distance.

Hey, I think I forgot to mention my single pin phase back in the late 90's. Yup, that was a fail. pottymouth pretty much nailed, could never get the sight adjusted quick enough especially when I was excited.

[blackmamba]

Originally Posted by russ

no, it's not practical @ 20 yds I'd see nothing but hair, even if I stuck to using my 2x I'd have nothing but trouble. Even @ 50 yds there'd be trouble. Couldn't imagine lining up on a moose with my 2x & clarifier. God doesn't put the 10x in exactly the same spot with the same marks every time. Mckenzie & Rienhart on the other hand do.

Then there's the potential for reflections off the optics, it's not like a rifle or crossbow scope where you stuff a birds nest in it and still see well enough to use it.

Theres also the issue of light, I have a terrible time with targets stuck in dark spaces. Archery scopes just aren't designed to gather light, so the darker the ambient light is, the harder it is to see. In 3D I've had problems with this @ 2 in the afternoon with clear skies.

Lastly, lets not forget lens glare. I dunno, but even with a hood @ Indoor Nationals I still had glare on my scope on ranges A & B. In fact, bad enough that I would have passed the shots in real hunting situations. I did alright, but guessing where the kill zone is on an animal isn't practical in real life.

Finally BM, are you trying to get me started? I mean really, I haven't even gotten around to dealing with parallax, peep size, scope size & something called the circle of the confusion. All of which have an affect on sight clarity.

No russ not getting you going just getting someone elses veiws on scopes on your bow for hunting !!! Thanks for that !!!

[Rob Miskosky]

Well I was taking you seriously for awhile BM...

[Rob Miskosky]

Originally Posted by shedcrazy

Young kids thinking about hunting is not a problem

It is when you haven’t got an answer for a question they have. I’ve asked a legitimate question on the hunting regulations thread but nobody seems to have an answer, maybe you do.
Oh, and I think Sheep is on your side of the debate.

[shedcrazy]

It is when you haven’t got an answer for a question they have.

Only one....hell I don't have answers most nights to my girls questions!

[Outcast]

Rob,

When I was 10 my dad was bowhunting. Always got to go out early. Extended his season. he always told me that if I wanted the same I had to practice and be able to shoot a bow that met the regulations. By the time I was 14 I was able. There was no choice of a crossbow at that time. Looking back I am glad.

There is a sense of excitement when accomplishing something that is difficult. I don't know what you should tell your boy. He is your son. Everyone is different and need to here things in a different way.

If you want my opinion though....I hate the fact that we need to make things easier in society so that we can get more people involved. What happened to good honest hard work.

[Rob Miskosky]

I hear ya' and it sounds so simple... but, unfortunately it isn't. Kids want legitimate answers to legitimate questions and telling them to work harder... well, that doesn't get a guy very far up the legitimate tree!

[shedcrazy]

Rob,

I read your question. I guess he made a choice and it was his to make. When I was younger I saw the other hunters hunting big game when we were out chasing birds. I asked why and my dad said he had no interest in bow hunting. I wanted to join those guys bow hunting so I did. There are choices to join or not join at least he has the choice. I think that gets lost in this topic.

I really didn't have a side on this topic until today and we kept talking about it. Right now I see more to lose than gain.

I might be greedy but hey it's been a rough few yrs in CWD land....

[Rob Miskosky]

A rough few years indeed.