Soldier shot/shooting Parliment Hill

[Etownguy]

Originally Posted by qwert

I do not recognize the artists sig, can someone tell me who is the artist.

Bruce MacKinnon - The Chronicle Herald, Halifax, Nova Scotia

Link to the original.

[score]

Originally Posted by recce43

He lost is hero today.

Yeah that photo is heartbreaking to be sure.

It always disgusts me to hear some minimize the small isolated terror attacks as if one death is any less significant than 100. To this soldier and his loved ones it is infinitely significant.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by qwert

Just in case someone missed this from another thread.



Thank You for posting this, I am very deeply moved.

As someone who grew up in a military family in Ottawa, I am very familiar with this War Memorial and the sacrifice it commemorates.

IMHO it is the most significant and thoughtful comment regarding this event that I have seen anywhere. I do not recognize the artists sig, can someone tell me who is the artist.

This cartoon is spreading through the U.S. news and talkshows like wildfire.

The term "No One Left Behind" comes up quite a bit.

[twofifty]

Originally Posted by Scotty P.

Well, I'm sure no one will be surprised but the blame game has already started. And guess what? It's the fault of firearms.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/la...648/story.html

Good post.

[Sashi]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

So your "Canada" is so weak and callow that you have to intern hundreds of thousands of innocent people because two lunatics attacked our military?

That's not something I would be proud of and I'm damn glad that's not MY country.

There is a Big difference between 90 and hundreds of thousands, Do you have a problem with your elevator.

[recce43]

Veterans across Canada Are guarding Cenotaphs today . We have a bunch of old veterans that are going to be on duty across Canada at the Cenotaph, so I got off duty of my patrols and came straight from work to here,” said Ward. Soldiers in Edmonton have also been standing guard.

[score]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...repulsive.html

A Canadian Muslim civil rights group calls the attacks on Parliament Hill “repulsive” and says it stands united with other Canadians.

“All Canadians are horrified and shocked by these repulsive attacks in Ottawa and our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families today,” Ihsaan Gardee, executive director of the National Council of Canadian Muslims, said in a prepared statement.

“We stand firm with fellow Canadians in upholding and protecting the safety and security of our country, as well as our national institutions,” Gardee said.
The council is a non-partisan, non-profit, pro civil rights organization with a history of condemning violent extremism.

“We commend our law enforcement agencies in putting themselves in harm’s way in order to protect all of us from terrorism,” Gardee said.

“While details . . . are still unfolding, we must reiterate that nothing can justify such atrocious actions and our message to anyone who espouses, endorses, or in any way supports ideologies of violence is that your actions are based on gross perversions of the Islamic faith.

“This week’s appalling events underscore the urgent need for ongoing co-operation between law enforcement, government agencies, and communities to respond to the threat of violent extremism.”

In July 2005, the council co-ordinated a statement from more than 120 imams from across Canada which denounced terrorism and violent extremism.

Last June, after news that a Canadian died in Iraq after a suicide attack, the council urged Canadian Muslim communities to renew their efforts to fight radicalization and joined the Canadian Council of Imams in denouncing Islamic State extremism.

Also this year, the council and the Islamic Social Services Association issued a handbook called “United Against Terrorism,” which attempts to build civic engagement and counter radicalization.

Dave, that's great and something that I've wanted to see forever. I know some groups have after past atrocities as well. It's absolutely critical for them to condemn terror for us and for their own best interest. To be honest, I find it hard to trust but that's not important right now. I commend this group for their efforts. That said however, it's not nearly enough IMO. All groups and organizations should go all out no holds barred to do so without excuses nor any sort of justifications. Full page ads, etc., etc..

When Israel defended itself and entered Gaza recently to go after the Hamas terrorists, Muslim groups marched in our largest cities condemning Israel shouting death to Jews (which was allowed and totally appalling).

While the above efforts are nice to see, much more is needed to be done by them in many ways, not merely issuing a statement. There is much they can do (too much to list here). But, marching in the streets, united, condemning ISIS and these tragedies would be a good response and would be well accepted by everyone. Nevertheless, something is better than nothing.

[Deo101]

Originally Posted by CdnVet0506

Can't remember who stated it in yesterday's whirlwind...but here's the math. To keep 1 guy under 24 hrs surveillance takes a minimum of 12-18 members (remember 7 days a week, 24 hrs a day). Times that by 80? 90? Not enough cops/CSIS guys to go around.......

And although I too would like to detain/arrest all of them....unfortunately there is no law against radical/murderous thoughts or most of us would be arrested...... Judges would toss all cases and then they'd sue and be rich radicals.....

How does it take 12-18 guys to cover one guy? 2 guys per shift, 12 hr shift on a 7 on 7 off schedule. Would need 8 guys total to rotate that shift. We do it in the patch all the time. So 8 per guy times 90=720 men (no overtime) How many Police Officers are doing seat belt stings and photo radar per day? Keeping close watch on known terrorists makes a lot more sense to me. If we're going to worry about costs I'm sure we could have eyes on them without physically having two officers trailing them. i.e. wire taps, phone tracking etc. Hind sights 20/20 but I feel like this shouldn't have happened. So many things could have been done to avoid this....especially since he was already on the "list" Whats the point of a "watch list" if they're free to do as they please...

[dcutter]

For those of you who would make this a Muslim bash, ISIL / ISIS / ISMHGHLMNOP is a Muslim organization as much as the Ku Klux Klan is a Christian organization.

CPL CIRILLO!!! STAND AT EASE!!!

Stand Easy

RIP

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by Deo101

How does it take 12-18 guys to cover one guy? 2 guys per shift, 12 hr shift on a 7 on 7 off schedule. Would need 8 guys total to rotate that shift. We do it in the patch all the time. So 8 per guy times 90=720 men (no overtime) How many Police Officers are doing seat belt stings and photo radar per day? Keeping close watch on known terrorists makes a lot more sense to me. If we're going to worry about costs I'm sure we could have eyes on them without physically having two officers trailing them. i.e. wire taps, phone tracking etc. Hind sights 20/20 but I feel like this shouldn't have happened. So many things could have been done to avoid this....especially since he was already on the "list" Whats the point of a "watch list" if they're free to do as they please...

We're does it end though. Wire taps etc. there are free and abiding citizens in this country. If we start taping phone and such. Where is the line drawn and on who's freedom. Veterans fought and died for the freedoms we have today.
If you start with the government eye, eventually we are all being watched. And everything our troops have fought for will be lost.


I agree, that our Muslim neighbors and citizens in this country need to take action against these people. Send a strong and united message to those evil people. If non Muslims do it. We are only seen as the western world of non believers. And it will have no impact other then radicalizing more of these crazies!

[benamen]

Originally Posted by dcutter

For those of you who would make this a Muslim bash, ISIL / ISIS / ISMHGHLMNOP is a Muslim organization as much as the Ku Klux Klan is a Christian organization.

CPL CIRILLO!!! STAND AT EASE!!!

Stand Easy

RIP

From Wikipedia
Though most members of the KKK saw themselves as holding to American values and Christian morality, virtually every Christian denomination officially denounced the Ku Klux Klan.
Seems to be a minority of Muslims denouncing ISIL from what I have seen.

And god bless CPL Cirillo.

[Sashi]

Originally Posted by score

Dave, that's great and something that I've wanted to see forever. I know some groups have after past atrocities as well. It's absolutely critical for them to condemn terror for us and for their own best interest. To be honest, I find it hard to trust but that's not important right now. I commend this group for their efforts. That said however, it's not nearly enough IMO. All groups and organizations should go all out no holds barred to do so without excuses nor any sort of justifications. Full page ads, etc., etc..

When Israel defended itself and entered Gaza recently to go after the Hamas terrorists, Muslim groups marched in our largest cities condemning Israel shouting death to Jews (which was allowed and totally appalling).

While the above efforts are nice to see, much more is needed to be done by them in many ways, not merely issuing a statement. There is much they can do (too much to list here). But, marching in the streets, united, condemning ISIS and these tragedies would be a good response and would be well accepted by everyone. Nevertheless, something is better than nothing.

Well said..
Well Said. I do not get a warm fuzzie feeling about a group of people, who will march instantaneously against the Jews, or the burning of a Koran, but not against ISIS.

[tri777]

Pretty good visual footage..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsbWzT_3xG8#t=490

[Deo101]

Originally Posted by Bowie

We're does it end though. Wire taps etc. there are free and abiding citizens in this country. If we start taping phone and such. Where is the line drawn and on who's freedom. Veterans fought and died for the freedoms we have today.
If you start with the government eye, eventually we are all being watched. And everything our troops have fought for will be lost.


I agree, that our Muslim neighbors and citizens in this country need to take action against these people. Send a strong and united message to those evil people. If non Muslims do it. We are only seen as the western world of non believers. And it will have no impact other then radicalizing more of these crazies!

You are right... I"m not willing to give up our freedoms. Not sure where it ends but it certainly should start with those on this list. No way in hell should these last two guys not have been watched a lot closer. I think picking out the enemy is going to be hardest battle. Not entirely sure how we fight against an Ideology....We all want action but I really don't know what the answer is. At any time a guy can snap and buy into this garbage. Or even just go off the rails for other unknown reasons.

Also don't forget that you are being watched, via cell phone, email, etc.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by dcutter

For those of you who would make this a Muslim bash, ISIL / ISIS / ISMHGHLMNOP is a Muslim organization as much as the Ku Klux Klan is a Christian organization.

CPL CIRILLO!!! STAND AT EASE!!!

Stand Easy

RIP

Tell that to a group of 88+ plus Legion Old Timers having their Thursday afternoon outing at the Legion. Especially after they have had a couple of beers.

They will agree with you after they calm down. Next week.

[wasteland.soldier]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Didn't we just have "boots on the ground"? Western troops owned Iraq and Afghanistan.

Don't get me wrong. "Boots on the ground" will likely end the ISIS threat of seizing territory and creating a state (which would be a very good thing), I'm not opposed to it as a temporary measure. But don't kid yourself that it will end terroism. It will drive more zealots to the cause. The last invasions certainly did.

I don't think that we would get a similar effect to what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan most recently. Western militaries do conventional warfare well. We can roll through territory and kill armed enemies. What we haven't performed well at is holding territory for significant periods of time, because we are not a force of the population. However that kind of analysis can't be applied to the idea of ground combat against ISIS.

ISIS is a military unit holding territory. To defend their territory, they'll have to show up to the fight, in the open. This is where our force has it's highest utility. After the fight is over, we can transfer Iraqi territory back to the still intact Iraqi government. Political concessions need to be diplomatically won from Iraq before we commit to such an invasion. It's important that Iraq makes changes to it's governing structure so that the Sunni minority doesn't feel like supporting a group like ISIS is the only way to have a voice.

It's a little more tricky to decide what to do with reclaimed Syrian territory. It's a bit of a gambit, but I think we should examine the option of handing the territory over to an "approved" Syrian rebel group. It's about time we picked a dog in that fight, and I don't think we would increase tensions too badly with the other interests in the region by making such a move, if it was announced early and understood to be a prerequisite of western ground involvement in the region. Russia and China both have a significant interest in preventing ISIS from holding territory or oil income, and would likely secretly welcome the west doing the heavy lifting of evicting ISIS from their territorial foothold. Iran doesn't like ISIS either, although they may be the greatest opponents of a move to hand over territory to a group of anti-Assad rebels. Like I said, that's just an option worth considering.

You also mentioned creating zealots by ground involvement. I think this is less likely than in the case of a strictly air campaign. With a campaign that is strictly run from the air, I believe collateral damage will be much higher than a combined arms mission.

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Isis is not a country. They are terrorists killing men, women and children for the sake of power. We supported the Kurds and Iraq.

Or maybe you have a different world map than I.

Never said it was a country sir , l know what isis is , a bunch of uneducated , unstable 18 yr olds who hate society cause they have nothing , don't want to work and love to play with guns.
How many women and children were killed when America invaded lrag.

[wasteland.soldier]

Originally Posted by Sashi

Well said..
Well Said. I do not get a warm fuzzie feeling about a group of people, who will march instantaneously against the Jews, or the burning of a Koran, but not against ISIS.

I work across from Calgary City Hall where there were several pro-Gaza protests this summer. There were also many anti-ISIS protests, held by Muslims. The anti-ISIS ones were smaller but much more numerous. They have all been 100% composed of "visible minorities", while the Gaza protests also had a significant number of white people in attendance. You can draw whatever conclusions you like from those observations.

I'd also like to mention that yesterday's attack was perpetrated by a nutjob loser of a white guy that gravitated to a countercultural worldview that was available to him. In no way do I think you can lay any blame on the doorstep of your Muslim immigrant neighbors. I'm not ready to say they "ought" to be doing this or that as the result of yesterday's event.

[airbornedeerhunter]

Originally Posted by Jimboy

Never said it was a country sir , l know what isis is , a bunch of uneducated , unstable 18 yr olds who hate society cause they have nothing , don't want to work and love to play with guns.
How many women and children were killed when America invaded lrag.

Where's Irag? If you are going to continue to dump the nasty, hefty, stinky, smelly dump that your kind peddles- at least spell check your dump!

I didn't realize ISIL had an age limit?

[Jadham]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/touch/n...tml?rel=841484

Somewhat interesting that yesterday's shooter lived in Calgary for awhile.

But Herald stories have been somewhat erratic of late, so hopefully better details will emerge.

More interesting to me is that the story suggests he actually wasn't on the RCMP watchlist

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter

Where's Irag? If you are going to continue to dump the nasty, hefty, stinky, smelly dump that your kind peddles- at least spell check your dump!

I didn't realize ISIL had an age limit?

OK TEACHER l hit the wrong key , and whats my kind may l ask.

[whammy]

Originally Posted by wasteland.soldier

It's a little more tricky to decide what to do with reclaimed Syrian territory. It's a bit of a gambit, but I think we should examine the option of handing the territory over to an "approved" Syrian rebel group. It's about time we picked a dog in that fight, and I don't think we would increase tensions too badly with the other interests in the region by making such a move, if it was announced early and understood to be a prerequisite of western ground involvement in the region.

IS is made up of a bunch of youth that were funded/supported by the west to help take down Assad. Same as how Osama bin Laden was directly supported and trained by the west to fight Russia in Afghanistan. This is a recurring theme in the middle east, and the best possible course of action is to leave those asshats to themselves.

[airbornedeerhunter]

Originally Posted by Jimboy

OK TEACHER l hit the wrong key , and whats my kind may l ask.

The kind that posts inflammatory remarks about events such as this simply to cause others to dislike you. And you are doing a fine job!

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by wasteland.soldier

I work across from Calgary City Hall where there were several pro-Gaza protests this summer. There were also many anti-ISIS protests, held by Muslims. The anti-ISIS ones were smaller but much more numerous. They have all been 100% composed of "visible minorities", while the Gaza protests also had a significant number of white people in attendance. You can draw whatever conclusions you like from those observations.

I'd also like to mention that yesterday's attack was perpetrated by a nutjob loser of a white guy that gravitated to a countercultural worldview that was available to him. In no way do I think you can lay any blame on the doorstep of your Muslim immigrant neighbors. I'm not ready to say they "ought" to be doing this or that as the result of yesterday's event.

I know:

With all due respect, I have the seen, heard and read the above excuses so much that I now ignore them.

I am sick and tired of other people calling themselves victims, and that I am the perpetrator of their problems. And I am supposed to feel guilty.

I think a lot of people who have bought into this weasel talk have said enough is enough.

Mind you, the sheeple are pretty stupid.

[Hagalaz]

Originally Posted by Scotty P.

Well, I'm sure no one will be surprised but the blame game has already started. And guess what? It's the fault of firearms.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/la...648/story.html

As I said in my last post on this topic, the anti-firearm folks never let a tragedy go to waste. I bet he had the above linked article written in rough form 30 minutes after the incident was first reported.

I was wrong about the Liberal party and/or the NDP being the first to bring it up though.

[Remi834]

A terrible state of affairs when a person takes away another person's life in a cowardly, brutal manner.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by wasteland.soldier

I'd also like to mention that yesterday's attack was perpetrated by a nutjob loser of a white guy that gravitated to a countercultural worldview that was available to him. In no way do I think you can lay any blame on the doorstep of your Muslim immigrant neighbors. I'm not ready to say they "ought" to be doing this or that as the result of yesterday's event.

Why bring race into this?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Why bring race into this?

LOL Oh Ruga...

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

LOL Oh Ruga...

??????

[Hat in the Cat]

Much of what ISIL learnt from killing Lee Rigby was that simple planned attacks can be carried out my any one that has access to the internet.

It is much simpler then providing all the necessary equipment, training and coordination needed for the old cell attacks.

By killing a soldier (the Crusader) they instantly stab at the heart of the country. This incites fear but more importantly draws out the anti Muslim/Islam comments and hatred.

THIS is the goal. This is what forces the Islamic community to withdraw and in turn allows for easier recruitment to the ISIL ranks.

I have known and still know many Muslim Canadians, served with many and I wouldn't say most are peaceful, I would say they were all peaceful. Outside of Afghanistan I have not run into any radicals or extremists.

Obviously they exist but I think this would stand to say they are very much in the minority. I REFUSE to hate any collective group of people due to prejudice not directly related. A group who all adhere to an evil agenda is a different story; I hate ISIL as they are truly evil at heart.