Subsistence hunting- OFFICIAL thread

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by iceburg

Are you aware many reserves have cultural awareness/mentor programs? (in regards to hunting/fishing)Non-aboriginals are not the only ones who acknowledge the need for preservation.
I'm not going to blanket all non-aboriginals as poachers when I see that published,it's not really fair to label these people, I think it's the misinformation that is put out there online or stories from a buddy who heard from a guy.

I think you are misunderstanding what I wrote. It's only non treaty people who have limits imposed to conserve wildlife. It's great that you have cultural awareness programs, but that doesn't mean everyone will listen. When there is no punishment there is no crime right?

[iceburg]

That's why there is poaching, some people just don't get it.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by iceburg

I thought we talked about the ability for people to apply for subsistence eligiblity? I really beleive that this should be used more btw, and would love to see someone apply for this.

I too would love to see someone getting this. Why should it be handed to one man yet his neighbor has to jump through hoops just to be told he doesn't qualify. It's a joke.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by iceburg

That's why there is poaching, some people just don't get it.

What are you suggesting here?

[iceburg]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I too would love to see someone getting this. Why should it be handed to one man yet his neighbor has to jump through hoops just to be told he doesn't qualify. It's a joke.

Do you know someone who has gone through this procedure? And also, If you were told that you had these rights tomorrow, would you use them?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by iceburg

Do you know someone who has gone through this procedure? And also, If you were told that you had these rights tomorrow, would you use them?

No and no. But I do have a friend who is a F&W officer and said its next to impossible to obtain. As for using my right tomorrow, I don't need to.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by iceburg

Do you know someone who has gone through this procedure? And also, If you were told that you had these rights tomorrow, would you use them?

If you told every non native that they had the same rights there would be no game left in this province in less than a year. LOL. I know lot's of guy's who would show some restraint, but the majority would not.

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

If you told every non native that they had the same rights there would be no game left in this province in less than a year. LOL. I know lot's of guy's who would show some restraint, but the majority would not.

And that may be what finally forces the government to see the folly in having some harvesters unregulated.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

If you told every non native that they had the same rights there would be no game left in this province in less than a year. LOL. I know lot's of guy's who would show some restraint, but the majority would not.

I agree....I think we should look at "regulations" for all, not free for all for all IMHO.

LC

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

Back a few decades ago, a 'white' woman was granted full status if she married a status man. If a status woman married a 'white' man, her status was taken. However, this was seen as unfair so they gave status back to them but did not take status away from the 'white' women.

No one lost their status they simply were granted the rights that the pink people enjoy.(there are no white people) Interesting everyone that gets pink skin rights bitches about it. So they gave them back treaty rights. Why? Because pink people have no rights.

[Smokinyotes]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I agree....I think we should look at "regulations" for all, not free for all for all IMHO.

LC

X2 this pretty much sums it up and makes hunting fair for everyone. I believe that aboriginal hunting rights were a good thing a 100 years ago. Society has changed in the last 100 years and the majority of natives shouldn't require a free for all when it comes to hunting. I really get tired of hearing it's our culture, it's a tradition. When was the last time you saw a native hunting with their homemade bow? If they want traditional methods have at it. Get making your home made bows and buy a pony. I could even offer up some fur for native clothing.

[wwbirds]

No one lost their status they simply were granted the rights that the pink people enjoy.(there are no white people) Interesting everyone that gets pink skin rights bitches about it. So they gave them back treaty rights. Why? Because pink people have no rights.

Probably one of the most stupid ignorant posts I have ever seen on AO maybe if you don't know, don't speak.
My uncle and many others gave up their status to join the military in order to go to Korea where he sustained many injuries that hampered him for the rest of his life. As a disabled vet he worked at the Legion in North Bay until his death as he could not keep a real job due to surgery that replaced many lengths of intestine with plastic tubing. He was pleased upon returning that natives were now able to vote in 1952 for when he left he had no vote in any election. Natives could and did die for their country but couldnt vote. Easy to feel "canadian" eh.

[Don K]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

No one lost their status they simply were granted the rights that the pink people enjoy.(there are no white people) Interesting everyone that gets pink skin rights bitches about it. So they gave them back treaty rights. Why? Because pink people have no rights.

??? Give your head a shake...

[chugg]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I can't take anything seriously someone says when they use a racial slur as a user name....sorry but if you have no respect for your people how can you expect anyone else to?

Sorry but its hard to accept what you type here as anything that needs to be considered seriously. Poor choice on your part IMHO.

LC

"Lefty Canuck" Hmmmmm

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by chugg

"Lefty Canuck" Hmmmmm

...and ?

LC

[chugg]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I can't take anything seriously someone says when they use a racial slur as a user name....sorry but if you have no respect for your people how can you expect anyone else to?

Sorry but its hard to accept what you type here as anything that needs to be considered seriously. Poor choice on your part IMHO.

LC

Likewise

[SmokinJoe]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I'm glad your office has been following this thread, there are some very valid points as to the needs of FN people today as compared to the needs in 1870. If your office cares about the wildlife, then they care about the conservation of it as well. I'm sure they care to enough about the wildlife to protest against potential environmental hazards that threaten ecosystems, I'm sure if they have access to a computer they also are making a decent income and have access to a grocery store. I'm sure they are educated enough to know that there are non treaty Canadians who need to access wild game more than they do. I'm sure they know it's not the color of your skin, or what your last name is, that determines what social or economical level one lives in. I'm sure they know we are ALL Canadians, living on the same land, and I'm sure they understand we are all responsible for wildlife conservation and sustainability.

I would be very interested in hearing their thoughts on the subject, what they think about subsistence harvesting, who they think deserves it, and where do we draw the line as to harvest limits. Surely it can't be a free for all, so lets hear their suggestions.

The only thing any of your posts have proven is that there is a serious lack of education among non FN people as to the importance of the roles played in FN hunting rights pertaining to sustainability in wildlife in this province.

The first thing you need to realize is the priority of any hunting in this country belongs to FNs. Your sporterized version of your privilege to hunt can be taken away very quickly.

[nube]

Have to agree with you lefty lol I wondered what kind of name was that.

[Smokinyotes]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

The only thing any of your posts have proven is that there is a serious lack of education among non FN people as to the importance of the roles played in FN hunting rights pertaining to sustainability in wildlife in this province.

The first thing you need to realize is the priority of any hunting in this country belongs to FNs. Your sporterized version of your privilege to hunt can be taken away very quickly.

Ok Joe. Educate us. How does you being able to shoot anything, any amount at anytime of year help sustain our wildlife? This is getting old Joe, you are young, Canadian and no different than the rest of us. Why are you more entitled than the rest of us. I know you are darn good with a bow, but it's not a traditional bow. You continue to preach your "right" and our "privilege". In 2015 with declining game populations you would think that anyone who had a care about "our" wildlife would want controls in place to prevent populations from decline further.

[billie]

The people I knew growing up that did subsistence hunt (non-FN) were not ones to have internet nor apply for permits, they just did it, as I'm sure happens in AB too. Who would argue a poor family away from the urban areas taking food, or a trapper on the line shooting a small deer to eat?

I'm with Bessie on this one, but....

Maybe we open up a small portion for negotiation. FN give up their unregulated right to hunt and join the rest of us, and we give them Toronto (we can toss in Ottawa).

A "Made in Alberta" solution!

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by chugg

Likewise

Likewise what?

Lefty= I am left handed, Canuck= I am born and raised Canadian.

My user name has no racial connotations...unlike yours. I am actually surprised your name was allowed to be used. A moderator on this site had a name "NDN" and there was complaints so he changed it...."Chug" is way more offensive.

Look it up in the urban dictionary and tell me it's an appropriate way to get people here to take you seriously. You sure aren't doing yourself any favors...

LC

[expmler]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

If you told every non native that they had the same rights there would be no game left in this province in less than a year. LOL. I know lot's of guy's who would show some restraint, but the majority would not.

By that logic, one must assume the majority of FN hunters show no restraint.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

The only thing any of your posts have proven is that there is a serious lack of education among non FN people as to the importance of the roles played in FN hunting rights pertaining to sustainability in wildlife in this province.

The first thing you need to realize is the priority of any hunting in this country belongs to FNs. Your sporterized version of your privilege to hunt can be taken away very quickly.

Ya ya, I know it's important to you. Tell me one thing. What gives you more right to ANY wild animal on this earth than me? If you can answer that question your argument might hold some water, otherwise it's just "I own all the animals on earth and you all better count your blessings I let you have any of them because I am God and own everything". You have no more rights or priorities to the animals on this earth, you've just been lead to believe you do.

You are right, there is a serious lack of education going on here, but it's not just found in non FN people.

Why is it that there are hundreds of different cultures that make up the Canadian population, but yours is the only one that counts? Why is it ok for all other cultures to progress with the times but yours has to stay the same.... Sort of..... When it works out best for your bennifit?

I never suggested FN should stop hunting, I suggested there IS a limit.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Ya ya, I know it's important to you. Tell me one thing. What gives you more right to ANY wild animal on this earth than me? If you can answer that question your argument might hold some water, otherwise it's just "I own all the animals on earth and you all better count your blessings I let you have any of them because I am God and own everything". You have no more rights or priorities to the animals on this earth, you've just been lead to believe you do.

You are right, there is a serious lack of education going on here, but it's not just found in non FN people.

Why is it that there are hundreds of different cultures that make up the Canadian population, but yours is the only one that counts? Why is it ok for all other cultures to progress with the times but yours has to stay the same.... Sort of..... When it works out best for your bennifit?

I never suggested FN should stop hunting, I suggested there IS a limit.

The Treaties DID NOT give any special Rights to the Indians in this country when they were signed, they ACKNOWLEDGED what had been going on for thousands of years prior to the arrival of the new comers and the new comers that entered into Treaties agreed to not interfere with this. This is further acknowledged and recognized in this country's Constitution....furthermore the Supreme Court of Canada HAS CONFIRMED this priority.

Kurt you may not like this answer, you may continue not to accept, you may not agree............but you've asked.

[slickwilly]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

No and no. But I do have a friend who is a F&W officer and said its next to impossible to obtain. As for using my right tomorrow, I don't need to.

As I understand it, isn't it more to do with your access to groceries than your financial state?
I believe it was designed for people who live in remote locations, not necessarily people in cities or towns who are low income- there are already programs in place to help those people.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

The Treaties DID NOT give any special Rights to the Indians in this country when they were signed, they ACKNOWLEDGED what had been going on for thousands of years prior to the arrival of the new comers and the new comers that entered into Treaties agreed to not interfere with this. This is further acknowledged and recognized in this country's Constitution....furthermore the Supreme Court of Canada HAS CONFIRMED this priority.

Kurt you may not like this answer, you may continue not to accept, you may not agree............but you've asked.

If you want to research the Sparrow Decision its easy but here is a quite cut and paste from the decision...


After the Sparrow case, federal or provincial legislation can only limit Aboriginal rights if it has given them appropriate priority, because aboriginal rights have a different nature than other non-aboriginal rights.

The "Sparrow test" has been used since this important decision by many experts as a way of measuring how much Canadian legislation can limit aboriginal rights.

Typical cases of inappropriate priority include distributing hunting licences by lottery

[SmokinJoe]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

Ok Joe. Educate us. How does you being able to shoot anything, any amount at anytime of year help sustain our wildlife? This is getting old Joe, you are young, Canadian and no different than the rest of us. Why are you more entitled than the rest of us. I know you are darn good with a bow, but it's not a traditional bow. You continue to preach your "right" and our "privilege". In 2015 with declining game populations you would think that anyone who had a care about "our" wildlife would want controls in place to prevent populations from decline further.

The actual numbers of animals harvested by FNs is a heck of allot lower than what people think, decline of animals in areas has been contributed to many different factors depending on the area, in forested areas it usually points towards industry and a climb in wolf population combined with them adapting to industry better than moose have. Whitetail pop in rural prairie areas has allot to do with winter kill, and believe it or not elk populations are thriving, especially in areas where re introduction has occurred.

As far as what entitles me to be able to hunt year round and as much as I need to? I'm just as canadian as most of the people around this site, because my ancestry goes back to the documents that founded this great nation. The same documents that make you canadian, the treaties.

Are there people that abuse our wildlife by over hunting or want/waste... Absolutely, but you can't point a fin fire at a specific race for all the blame based on it's not illegal, because wasting meat is indeed illegal no matter who you are.

As far as what needs to be done, well hunting needs to be tighter regulated and monitored by SRD for licenced hunters, more things need to be on a draw to regulate how many hunters go into an area irregardless of their success. For example your whitetail tag should be WMU specific, and on a first come first serve basis priority given to rural land owners.

Did you know that SRD opens more draws in certain areas to allow for populations in moose to drop to lessen the amount of moose vs vehicle collisions?

ESRD is failing all of us, they are underfunded and designed to help industry over anyone who wants to see sustainable ecosystem. Oil and gas is of more importance to Alberta than hunting. It's what thrives alberta and how the Conservative party gets elected time and time again.

We know on my nation how many hunters there are and have a slightly better than good idea what is harvested. Not even a drop in the bucket, especially when you factor in all the different areas that guys hunt in. And the further south you go the lower them numbers are per capita.

As far a subsistence hunting... If a guy lives far enough out of the way and has a purpose of living so far out, he should be able to hang as much meat as he can use. Highly doubt you will find one of those guys on AO.

Once again the deal that was made to share this land, is the same deal that gives me a right to hunt. Everyone in canada has and always will benefit from treaties.

[slickwilly]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

Ok Joe. Educate us. How does you being able to shoot anything, any amount at anytime of year help sustain our wildlife? This is getting old Joe, you are young, Canadian and no different than the rest of us. Why are you more entitled than the rest of us. I know you are darn good with a bow, but it's not a traditional bow. You continue to preach your "right" and our "privilege". In 2015 with declining game populations you would think that anyone who had a care about "our" wildlife would want controls in place to prevent populations from decline further.

Honestly, the effect of treaty status hunters is minimal. Just look at the numbers: as of 2008, there were just over 100,000 registered status indians in AB. Out of 3 million. Even if you assume that the average native population hunts at a much higher rate than the non-native population, (say 5x the rate), then possibly, possibly 1/6 the hunters are native.
If you consider the fact that the bulk of the native population lives in the northern half of the province (which is much less populated), that reduces the impact considerably.

Reducing the numbers of animals that treaty hunters can take is like cutting a few hundred thousand dollars out of the provincial budget. When you need to make cuts, you don't focus on the little items, you go straight to education and healthcare and take off a small percentage, because those are the biggest line items.

The same applies to conservation. Need to protect whitetail populations? The most effective technique is going to be changing the allocation for the majority of the population: non-native hunters. Especially considering that the areas that get pounded by hunters are near edmonton and calgary, and it is not native hunters that are taking the majority of the animals (due to access restrictions).

[SmokinJoe]

Originally Posted by slickwilly

As I understand it, isn't it more to do with your access to groceries than your financial state?
I believe it was designed for people who live in remote locations, not necessarily people in cities or towns who are low income- there are already programs in place to help those people.

Congrats your the first poster that can answer what is a subsistence hunter. That I have read, I may have missed someone else..

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

The Treaties DID NOT give any special Rights to the Indians in this country when they were signed, they ACKNOWLEDGED what had been going on for thousands of years prior to the arrival of the new comers and the new comers that entered into Treaties agreed to not interfere with this. This is further acknowledged and recognized in this country's Constitution....furthermore the Supreme Court of Canada HAS CONFIRMED this priority.

Kurt you may not like this answer, you may continue not to accept, you may not agree............but you've asked.

It still doesn't say you have any more right to it than I do, and this is my point. Many may not like that they have to share, but they do. Another point I'm making is although we signed an agreement saying we will not interfere, (when I say we I don't mean you or I because neither of us had anything to do with it) we never signed anything saying we can't have any ourselves.

At some point, common sense must prevail, there are a lot of areas that should progress with the change of time and technology. I see its ok to take take take but when it comes time to give the room gets pretty quiet.

For example, it's ok to have the medicine box turn into full medical coverage now that we have so many technological advancements in the medical field. But when it comes to regulate the amount of animals you can take due to the technological advancements in weapons, transportation, food storage and availability, all of a sudden its not ok to change with the times, it becomes a right we signed a treaty on in 1870. With the Canadian population growing, this is when common sense should kick in and tell you that maybe it's time to get with the 90's.