Is Hunting with a Crossbow, really bowhunting?

[edmhunter]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

It's not the release or trigger that matters, what does matter is a bow needs to be drawn back before firing and this creates....wait for it.....MOVEMENT! Yes, that's right folks you don't have to move before shooting the crossbow and that's a huge advantage...so much so that the hunters in this province have voted to have the crossbow kept in the rifle season- where it belongs.

Now let's move along....

Best answer and best way to put it! Keep crossbows out of Archery season has my vote

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

It's crossbow hunting .
Cat

What he said!

BW

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

It's not the release or trigger that matters, what does matter is a bow needs to be drawn back before firing and this creates....wait for it.....MOVEMENT! Yes, that's right folks you don't have to move before shooting the crossbow and that's a huge advantage...so much so that the hunters in this province have voted to have the crossbow kept in the rifle season- where it belongs.

Now let's move along....

It was voted on. Its being asked about again because it will be voted again.

So no, its not 'time to move on'.

[Sledhead71]

Horizontal or vertical, both project a sharp stick.

Either weapon, skill is what makes the tool successful.

For all those who worry these big bad x bows will ruin the early season, well look at the historic data from other jurisdictions which have allowed horizontals in general archery. There is an initial spike in participation, then a couple season later, well the numbers return to original averages.

Why restrict opportunity for the sake of personal opinion ?

I'm all for opportunity, so I wouldn't care one bit if these weapons were allowed in the general archery season.

[nekred]

Those who stir the crap pot should have to lick the spoon!...

This argument will go round and round.....

the only real difference is whether or not you have to draw it with muscular power in the presence of game.....

A crossbow is just a draw lock device where it can be held in battery indefinitely....

when you look at the actual hunting aspect.... they are very similar except for this one difference... There was a bow called an accuriser which did same thing but vertical...

Lefty what do you call that little thing on a wrist strap release that you apply pressure to, to activate it?

TRIGGER: small device that releases a spring or catch and so sets off a mechanism.

This can be a gun, a crossbow, a mechanical release, a trap, a fighter jet etc.

[dcutter]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Horizontal or vertical, both project a sharp stick.

Either weapon, skill is what makes the tool successful.

For all those who worry these big bad x bows will ruin the early season, well look at the historic data from other jurisdictions which have allowed horizontals in general archery. There is an initial spike in participation, then a couple season later, well the numbers return to original averages.

Why restrict opportunity for the sake of personal opinion ?

I'm all for opportunity, so I wouldn't care one bit if these weapons were allowed in the general archery season.

I left Sledhead's quote completely intact because it is easily the best post I have read in a long time.

Also to Sledhead - congrats on post 2000!

[AbAngler]

I bow hunt with my bow during archery season, and have been known to bow hunt with my crossbow during rifle season.

Spot and stalk, I prefer my bow as the crossbow is very cumbersome in the bush. In a stand, I prefer my crossbow, because its just plain hard to miss.

I would like to see crossbows included in archery season, but its probably not going to happen anytime soon. Its not a topic I like to get into since the strictly bow hunters are fairly protective of their bow zones. Fair enough. At this stage in my hunting career, I don't really care either way.

[nekred]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Horizontal or vertical, both project a sharp stick.

Either weapon, skill is what makes the tool successful.

For all those who worry these big bad x bows will ruin the early season, well look at the historic data from other jurisdictions which have allowed horizontals in general archery. There is an initial spike in participation, then a couple season later, well the numbers return to original averages.

Why restrict opportunity for the sake of personal opinion ?

I'm all for opportunity, so I wouldn't care one bit if these weapons were allowed in the general archery season.

That is exactly the issue!... the way our seasons are setup after the huge influx then suddenly the wildlife management regime changes to restrict opportunity and then once restricted you can't change it back....even when numbers fall!....

Grizzly bears, mule deer,moose etc.

As for primitive weapon.... A modern compound, modern crossbow, modern inline black powder are not really primitive!.... (i.e. available before industrial revolution).....

When you look at effective range of projectiles from both compound and x-bow they are very similar, they have similar characteristics.... BTW crossbows shoot an arrow, a BOLT has no fletches.... People forget this little fact.... crossbows were around long before rifles.... and rifle barrells are actually mounted on a crossbow stock!.....and use a crossbow style trigger....

In other Canadian jurisdictions the crossbow was brought into archery season at its inception not added later because of technological advancements (such as compound bow) which was just starting to be developed when many jurisdictions were bringing in archery hunting.....

once arrow has left the launcher..... it is basically identical in characteristics including mechanism of injury.... however there are other items in play....

[catnthehat]

Here's my take on it.
In a regular season no problem
In a PRIMITIVE season where muzzle loaders are allowed as well as Archery gear, no problem .
In a regular archery only season? Nope, because of the nature of the locked limbs At draw.
Personally speaking I have nothing against any type if hunting gear but there are several types of rifles , shotguns and bows ,etc I will not use for target shooting of hunting .
Crossbows ,semi auto shotguns ,compound bows , and inline rifles are some of them .
Cat

[Junglefisher]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

Its crossbow hunting. But compound bow hunting is also compound bow hunting and really cant be lumped in with traditional bow hunting. Id be fine with crossbows being lumped into archery. For no other reason than I cant justify to myself that Im any more special or talented shooting my compound than a guy shooting his crossbow when you compare yourself to guys that hunt with traditional bows. Also, because who cares if a guy hunts with a crossbow in archery season? If tag numbers don't fluctuate with the transfer of crossbows to archery seasons then whats the big deal?

Basically, the archery hunters are scared they will lose their general tags. If archery hunting is allowed with a crossbow, more people will likely partake in archery season, most of which is on general tags, not draw. Some areas where moose are a 5 year draw for rifle are general for archery.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Here's my take on it.
In a regular season no problem
In a PRIMITIVE season where muzzle loaders are allowed as well as Archery gear, no problem .
In a regular archery only season? Nope, because of the nature of the locked now At draw.
Cat

Yup, yup, and yup.

[nekred]

One last Parting shot.....

All those who want crossbows in a season other than general season, get together, form an association, lobby for your season and get active... do what the ABA did for ALL archers not just their members...

I have seen this argument for many years and have laid the same challenge down and have seen no action....

the "spear chuckers" (atlatl users) have made far more effort than any of the crossbow guys!... They have made some effort not just crying about it.... maybe because their hand was forced but they are standing up and lobbying and I think those efforts will be rewarded.

I see people come onto forums whine and complain about not being able to use crossbows in archery season then disappear back into their mother's basements until they feel need to rise again....

[nekred]

ok one more.....

in order to access archery season one must buy a bowhunting permit.... this sets the number of hunters accessing the season and is used for setting season. I know there are real numbers but lets say it is 25% of hunters... then allocations are not 25% because bowhunting takes 4x more days to harvest on average.... so they allocate so many tags to archery....

Crossbows allowed to access...

Suddenly sales of bowhunting permits got to 50% of hunters, so ESRD suddenly puts things on a draw in areas because of increased bowhunters (they don't just use harvest records as not everyone reports but hunter effort)

NOW opportunities for all hunters are dropped including general because they put more on a draw and lower the probability of getting drawn for rifle hunters too...

If we had a different system in alberta where you could draw for specific seasons (archery or general) this would be mitigated a bit, but crossbows would have an impact....

Another fact people overlook.... in many US jurisdictions Rifle season means RIFLE season... no crossbows, bows, atlatl's, spears, slingshots, rocks, etc. you must hunt with rifle.... so when crossbow users asked for what season to use many jurisdictions were faced with 4 options.... make a new season, put them in rifle, put them in archery or prohibit altogether.

So the numbers used from those states really are not applicable when compared to Alberta. We have a archery season, and a GENERAL SEASON....and then some special zones.

[Rockman]

I don't care too much but...

My opinion is, if allowing crossbows in archery season has half a chance of turning some OTC tags to draw, then x-bow hunting is totally wrong during archery season and should never be allowed. Huge step down in the quality of hunting season.

If no OTC tags are affected, then it's fine. I'm a tolerant guy

But more seriously, I see little difference (some, but very little) between compound bows and crossbows. Traditional bows, yeah, that's different. Maybe there should be a complete free-for-all with trad bows only for a week before the entire season begins. There's an idea. (Oh wait... whatever.) Or the last 7 days of all archery seasons allow crossbows.

[recce43]

i think archery season sould include all types of archery if not then make archery season Traditional bow hunting only then

[airbornedeerhunter]

Lets just regulate it to death!

Maybe we should have two rifle seasons, one for scoped rifles and one for iron sights

Lets take it even further and have action seasons for birds, a single shot action season, a pump action season and a semi-auto season.

Be careful what you wish for- you just might get it

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Can a 7-8 year old shoot a legal hunting bow accurately to 50m? Can a 7-8 year old shoot a x-bow accurately to 50m?

Heck I'll let them DRAW his/her bow with a release too!

LC

Can a 7-8 year old cock a x bow? Why is a 7-8 year old hunting-I thought they had to be 12.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Huntnut

Can a 7-8 year old cock a x bow? Why is a 7-8 year old hunting-I thought they had to be 12.

With a cocking aid yes they can....I used that as an example to show it is easier to use a xbow than a bow....I said shoot not hunt.

LC

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter

Lets just regulate it to death!

Maybe we should have two rifle seasons, one for scoped rifles and one for iron sights

Lets take it even further and have action seasons for birds, a single shot action season, a pump action season and a semi-auto season.

Be careful what you wish for- you just might get it

Some states are almost that way, with a primitive season meaning flintlock or traditional stick bows only - percussion and compounds not allowed.
They also have a crossbow season and a regular rifle season .
Long before we had the internet going on I hunted with cap locks and stick bows in the regular season and still do .
One general season would suit me just fine except where it was deemed for short range weapons only like unrifled shotguns and crossbows, traditional muzzle loaders etc .
I state the last because a shotgun with a rifled barrel or an inline muzzleloader scoped up are hardly short range weapons.
No issues with them in a regular season but on populated areas like Strathcona where the season was set up for short range weapons, this gear does not qualify IMO
Cat

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

With a cocking aid yes they can....I used that as an example to show it is easier to use a xbow than a bow....I said shoot not hunt.

LC

Should compare apples to apples then. I know my 12 year old-(who's old enough to hunt) can pull and hold a compound.

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

this ^^^^^^^

Edmhunter , what was your last username?

[skidderman]

Some people just don't give up. If you think a crossbow is so effective please come with me and I'll show you. You still have to be within 30 yards, it has a scope instead of a crosshair, is awkward to carry and not near as deadly as people think. At 30 yards I'm lucky to hit a pie plate & I have a good one. My guess is the number of game killed with a crossbow in AB is so small it hurts. Myself, 2 deer and one moose in 6 years. Wup te doo. If running us down is what turns you on, go for it. With one arm I either use a crossbow or I don't get to bow hunt at all. It hurts every time I see this come up. For the bully's out there that can't leave it alone I hope it makes you happy.

[J D]

As someone who has hunted with trad, compound, and xbow no xbows are not archery.

Got no problem with xbows but the only thing they have in common is range and a fletched projectile. They really are in a category of their own.

Push for them to be part of archery season all you want but they are not the same as hunting with a bow. If they do become part of archery seasons don't expect the same kind of season. Dates and length of season would need to be adjusted do to increased harvest and hunter numbers.

If you don't agree fine just an opinion from someone experienced in the use of both weapons. Taken game with all 3 I listed above.

This debate will never die as long as there is hunters who want to join in on bow season without picking up a bow. Just be honest and call it like it is if they are truly the same pick up a bow instead of pushing for xbows in archery season.

Heard all the reasons for and against xbows and there is a lot of BS from both sides LOL. Not beating my head against the wall in this debate

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Huntnut

Should compare apples to apples then. I know my 12 year old-(who's old enough to hunt) can pull and hold a compound.

?

How is it not apples to apples? Talking strictly target practice.

Change the age to 12....introduce a kid who has done neither, which one do they become more proficient with after 1hr of practice?

LC

[J D]

Originally Posted by skidderman

Some people just don't give up. If you think a crossbow is so effective please come with me and I'll show you. You still have to be within 30 yards, it has a scope instead of a crosshair, is awkward to carry and not near as deadly as people think. At 30 yards I'm lucky to hit a pie plate & I have a good one. My guess is the number of game killed with a crossbow in AB is so small it hurts. Myself, 2 deer and one moose in 6 years. Wup te doo. If running us down is what turns you on, go for it. With one arm I either use a crossbow or I don't get to bow hunt at all. It hurts every time I see this come up. For the bully's out there that can't leave it alone I hope it makes you happy.

I will agree same range as a compound but it is not hard to dial in a cross bow a lot better than you are stating.

Not hard to group at 4inch at 50 yards with a xbow. With practice it is not hard to do this with a compound either.

Both weapons have the ability all depends on the shooter

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

?

How is it not apples to apples? Talking strictly target practice.

Change the age to 12....introduce a kid who has done neither, which one do they become more proficient with after 1hr of practice?

LC

Punching fluffy targets with either at any age has nothing to do with the sport of "hunting"

Weapon choice for anyone who is proficient at the art of getting up close and personal on their prey has no barring on success either.

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Change the age to 12....introduce a kid who has done neither, which one do they become more proficient with after 1hr of practice?

LC

With today's compounds and being set up properly-you'd be surprised.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by skidderman

Some people just don't give up. If you think a crossbow is so effective please come with me and I'll show you. You still have to be within 30 yards, it has a scope instead of a crosshair, is awkward to carry and not near as deadly as people think. At 30 yards I'm lucky to hit a pie plate & I have a good one. My guess is the number of game killed with a crossbow in AB is so small it hurts. Myself, 2 deer and one moose in 6 years. Wup te doo. If running us down is what turns you on, go for it. With one arm I either use a crossbow or I don't get to bow hunt at all. It hurts every time I see this come up. For the bully's out there that can't leave it alone I hope it makes you happy.

I think you missed a lot of key points...no one is saying that folks who are disabled/injured permanently should be disallowed using xbows in archery season....speaking only for myself I certainly did not say or imply that ever.

LC

[grinr]

No,x-bow is not bowhunting.

[SBE2]

Since he hasn't been around to comment on the never ending debate, I'll quote Pottymouth and 2nd the opinion...
"It's not a bow, it's a cross-gun" (X-gun). Lol. Denying the difference in effort and skill to use a Xgun compared to a bow, recurve or compound, is stupid. Just sayin, enjoy the ride boys, this threads headed nowhere. Cheers