Salaries for first nation leaders

[FOTW]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

not to take the thread off in a spin but since you mentioned the arena I have a little rant to do here,why should I john q public tax payer subsidize darrel katz a billionare build an arena?why doesn't katz build it himself?if I want to build a new house in the city I will go see if the city hall will subsidize me

The city own part of the arena and gets a share of the profits. If I own an arena the city should get $0 dollars from me excluding taxes. It makes no sense for the city not to build the arena, Its a wise investment in the end paying Indian chiefs high salaries is not.

[wolfriver]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

They are just learning and living the White Man's way.

And here I thought the INDIAN way was so clean and pure and nothing but sunshine and buttercups. Guess there just as dirty and corrupt as the evil white man. Time to make everyone in Canada equal and cut off the reserve money. No more tax free, every body works every body pays.

[FOTW]

Originally Posted by wolfriver

And here I thought the INDIAN way was so clean and pure and nothing but sunshine and buttercups. Guess there just as dirty and corrupt as the evil white man. Time to make everyone in Canada equal and cut off the reserve money. No more tax free, every body works every body pays.

The equality you mention will somehow be classified as racism and discrimination.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by FOTW

The city own part of the arena and gets a share of the profits. If I own an arena the city should get $0 dollars from me excluding taxes. It makes no sense for the city not to build the arena, Its a wise investment in the end paying Indian chiefs high salaries is not.

and if the arena doesn't turn a profit what happens then?oh yeah the indy that's what happens,I am all for business if a guy makes lots of money he should be free to do what he wants with it,that being said the government shouldn't be in the business of being in business,or subsidizing anything,if an arena can't stand on it's own it shouldn't be built,katz is a very smart guy, and if he thought the arena would work and he would turn a profit without doubt, he wouldn't be looking for help.

this is very different from the native band leaders sorry I got off on a tangent,there is alot of corruption on reserves and someone has to have the guts to do something about it.

[adaras]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I agree with you completely. We are all human. Domination, greed, and selfishness is a part of human nature, every where in the world, throughout history.

My comment just points out that this abuse is occuring within a system made by "white" men.

i agree with you too walking buffalo they are taking a lots of monay and they are driving the people in the reservations in total chaos of drugs,rapes.murders,act and the reserves look like junkyards

[mooseknuckle]

Sorry guys and gals I'm going to sound like a cold hearted SOB here!!

White, Brown, Red, or yellow I'm really failing to see how this BS affects the "poor or unfortunate" people of this world. I've worked my azz off for everything I have and done very well for my self and when times were tough I never once said to my self well if the leaders didn't make such rediculous money I'd be okay!! Fact of the matter is life is what you make of it. You want something? Well go out and get it. I wasn't handed a thing I dropped out of high school bounced from job to job kept my credit in good order untill one day I had an idea went to the bank and borrowed 25k put everything I had on the line. Now I make what some would call a radiculous salary. So am I a ******* now because there are folks out there that havent put in the time, sacrifice and effort that I have to get to where Iam? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong me and my wife often give to causes in need I do believe that some can fall on hard times and can use a little push thats fine. But I really this is just another excuse for un motivated individuals to bitch and moan because life aint going so well... Boo FREAKIN hoo. Stand up and be counted do something for yourself, if you count on others to make life easy for you then in my mind your just setting yourself up for dissapointment. The system ain't perfect never will be, so poop or get off the pot or climb a clock tower.

[brownbomber]

here it is not tryin to start a war. but here it goes
i think the people who are upset do have some legitimate concerns, here is a random example. the whole system is fractured on reserves.
say there is a kid who does want to do something, does okay in school but wants to go to school, if his family isn't in with the chief and council his funding can be denied, parents aren't much to write home about so he doesnt have the money and tries for a government student loan and they say talk to the band buddy there should be money there for you. his hands are tied so he says screw it i'll go to work. only problem is there are only a few on reserve jobs which are generally set aside for the relatives or friends or those in charge......so go to town to get a job, but remember the parents aren't the greatest so he doesn't have a ride and can't even get a job on the rez to make money to get a cheap place in town so he can get a job there. he wants to self improve but can't because of his surroundings, now be in his shoes and say well what other options do i have, try a camp job??? well that's fine and dandy but how do you get the ride to camp, hope that you have a few ambitious relatives that will help you get there and back and you're off to the races kid. but along the way maybe he hasn't developed the self esteem and confidence to venture out due to crappy parenting and poof..his ambition out the window and on the road to becoming another stereotype, it's a sad vicious cycle and people do suffer because the leadership isn't doing what they should be doing.

[Redfrog]

what does it take to make that situation better. BB. ?

[brownbomber]

turn back the clock 150 years?? at this point there is no quick fix or easy way out of the mess that has been created.
sometimes it does matter where you are from to end up making a decent living, i did good because i had great parenting, not everyone does.
the leaders making ridiculous money hurts people because for starters it takes away from getting the ambitious unconnected ones off the rez and into the world where they can succeed with hard work like moose knuckle did. after that it's a case of sucess breeds sucess, so say the imaginary kid i made up does make it out then well heck his little brother has inspiration when he comes back at christmas in a nice vehicle and has a decent apartment in town on his way to owning a house, then the little brother does it too, and then a cousin sees that family doing well and he does it too. snowball effect and we are all happy in the end because we are seeing less wasted tax dollars and people are succeeding, and that ends being the example that people want to follow not the wallowing in self pity and becoming a steretype. people are upset because the money is there and the people who want and need the help are not getting it and the greed of the leaders is taking away from their ability to become fully functioning people of the country. the system is very flawed and i want to see it change but it's up to everyone in this country to help that, breaking down walls and forcing real change to the system and helping the people that want and need it most. have a good day!!!

[mooseknuckle]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

turn back the clock 150 years?? at this point there is no quick fix or easy way out of the mess that has been created.
sometimes it does matter where you are from to end up making a decent living, i did good because i had great parenting, not everyone does.
the leaders making ridiculous money hurts people because for starters it takes away from getting the ambitious unconnected ones off the rez and into the world where they can succeed with hard work like moose knuckle did. after that it's a case of sucess breeds sucess, so say the imaginary kid i made up does make it out then well heck his little brother has inspiration when he comes back at christmas in a nice vehicle and has a decent apartment in town on his way to owning a house, then the little brother does it too, and then a cousin sees that family doing well and he does it too. snowball effect and we are all happy in the end because we are seeing less wasted tax dollars and people are succeeding, and that ends being the example that people want to follow not the wallowing in self pity and becoming a steretype. people are upset because the money is there and the people who want and need the help are not getting it and the greed of the leaders is taking away from their ability to become fully functioning people of the country. the system is very flawed and i want to see it change but it's up to everyone in this country to help that, breaking down walls and forcing real change to the system and helping the people that want and need it most. have a good day!!!

Some very good points. Although making leaders and higher-ups accountably for their decisions would definately help,.... parting out there inflated salaries would be but a drop in the bucket for the less fortunate that elected them into power!!

People who insist on more. have to screem louder!! Plain and simple. If there is a 10% (rich people) and another 20% above middle class then there is a majority out there that has the numbers and the power to change things. The fact that they can`t afford bus fair or lack the motivation to get to the polls isn`t my problem it is theirs!! What was the votage percentage this yearÉÉÉÉ Pathetic and not my fault.

[Hooked07]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

turn back the clock 150 years?? at this point there is no quick fix or easy way out of the mess that has been created.
sometimes it does matter where you are from to end up making a decent living, i did good because i had great parenting, not everyone does.
the leaders making ridiculous money hurts people because for starters it takes away from getting the ambitious unconnected ones off the rez and into the world where they can succeed with hard work like moose knuckle did. after that it's a case of sucess breeds sucess, so say the imaginary kid i made up does make it out then well heck his little brother has inspiration when he comes back at christmas in a nice vehicle and has a decent apartment in town on his way to owning a house, then the little brother does it too, and then a cousin sees that family doing well and he does it too. snowball effect and we are all happy in the end because we are seeing less wasted tax dollars and people are succeeding, and that ends being the example that people want to follow not the wallowing in self pity and becoming a steretype. people are upset because the money is there and the people who want and need the help are not getting it and the greed of the leaders is taking away from their ability to become fully functioning people of the country. the system is very flawed and i want to see it change but it's up to everyone in this country to help that, breaking down walls and forcing real change to the system and helping the people that want and need it most. have a good day!!!

So if all the "good" guys end up being successful and have they're apartment in town, who's left on the reserve? That's right the bad guys, and this is exactly what's happening. We give them a measure of success and in the end the youth left on the reserve have no examples left to follow. A more accountable situation would be if you use your native status to be educated and trained than you have a commitment/requirement to return to your community with new skills and training. This would benefit the community in so many ways and raise the bar for the youth, success is based on hard work and commitment look at us. While this absolutely has to stop and be addressed, it's not the old chiefs making a million dollars a year now it's all the youth who see this and have an even greater sense of entitlement.

[jpietrzak1979]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It's not all that surprising.Drive around a reserve and see how long it takes you to find the band chiefs house,it doesn't take long.Some band members are struggling to put food on the table,while the chief has a nice house,nice vehicles,and plenty of toys.

Not to be a jerk but... the same thing is true of our "chiefs" any politician I met has a nice house and car and I know lots of people in the city who are struggling to put food on the table and cant afford a car. Agreeably sounds a little more disproportionate in the article but by the same token I do wonder because I knew a native fellow who told me every person in their tribe received 200k when they turned 18 and they wasted it and ended up with nothing. I never had that advantage and makes it hard for me to sympathise.

[brownbomber]

So if all the "good" guys end up being successful and have they're apartment in town, who's left on the reserve?

just a example, a fictional story to illustrate a way around the problem. lots of good people on reserve, quietyly doing there thing. it's easy to see the stereotype and not so much the regular working hand that doesn't make a lot of noise

parting out there inflated salaries would be but a drop in the bucket for the less fortunate that elected them into power!!

i should have been more specific, by seeing how much inflated salary some of the chiefs have it may or may not be fair to say wow if that's happening there how much other funds are being funnelled in a inappropriate way? how many training dololars are being unfairly allocated? how many housing programs are going the wrong the way? it's more of a point in how the salary is a tip of the iceber in reference in to what is wrong with the system.

my example of the story wasn't meant to litterally mean this is what you have to do to escape. just one quickly thought example of how it is tougher than most people seem to think to get ahead on the reserve if you are not dialed into the leadership.

nice healthy debate though guys, glad to be back on the board after a long break from it. lol in the meantime got some bus fare?

[Kristine]

We are going to have huge problems with all our indian reservations spread across Canada. (Over 600 I believe)
I don't know where all the money will come from to just keep these people on the reservations. They are the fastest growing segment of our population.

Reminds me of what South Africa was under apartheid, and it is not much different there today. Does that mean we have apartheid in Canada ??

[Kristine]

Originally Posted by Hooked07

So if all the "good" guys end up being successful and have they're apartment in town, who's left on the reserve? That's right the bad guys, and this is exactly what's happening. We give them a measure of success and in the end the youth left on the reserve have no examples left to follow. A more accountable situation would be if you use your native status to be educated and trained than you have a commitment/requirement to return to your community with new skills and training. This would benefit the community in so many ways and raise the bar for the youth, success is based on hard work and commitment look at us. While this absolutely has to stop and be addressed, it's not the old chiefs making a million dollars a year now it's all the youth who see this and have an even greater sense of entitlement.

We need to stop paying our Indians to live on the reservation. They should be able to own their own acreages and be independent to make there own living or get of the reserve. There are over 600 tribes across the country on reservations and they are going to have to start to be responsible for there own lives and upkeep of their homes.

[Kanonfodder]

No need to resurrect this thread ....

IBTL