Fastest bow in the world?

[Enewman]

I like my Apa. But it is far from the ibo rating with measured draw.

No different then most. They play that speed game. But it does draw good

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Ask the folks at ABA what company assisted them the most when they started out, with designs and parts. Unless the version of events I heard differs. You know Strothers worked at Bowtech too.

LC

BOWTECH is a young company also...99...Strothers is Bowtech...with roots in several company's. ..

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

BOWTECH is a young company also...99...Strothers is Bowtech...with roots in several company's. ..

Yes they are, when did APA come on the scene? And who assisted with cams and parts at the beginning?

LC

[eric2381]

I shoot a PSE Omen pro and I really like it. I shoot 30" draw and 70lb weight. Blue streak 350s and 100gr tips I get 339fps. Same arrows and 85gr tips I get 347fps.

I am chasing speed with this bow, kind of an experiment. I wonder if I could safely shoot the HCA speed pro arrows in my bow??

[double gun]

Double tap.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

OH Meow....lol ...gotta be Blowtech or Hoyt-em shooter ha ha


[let em fly] lol
Neil

When I was a kid I started on browning, then to pse, then bowtech, and finally mathews. I'm not particularly brand loyal, I just like to tease. That said the ass scratcher and suitcase handle of apa don't appeal to me much.

[hoytcanon]

I'm far more concerned with "quiet and smooth" than I am with fast... I took my first bear with a homemade ash self bow and home made cedar dowel arrows 40 years ago, and there tweren't nothing "fast" about that rig.

[normanrd]

Originally Posted by eric2381

I shoot a PSE Omen pro and I really like it. I shoot 30" draw and 70lb weight. Blue streak 350s and 100gr tips I get 339fps. Same arrows and 85gr tips I get 347fps.

I am chasing speed with this bow, kind of an experiment. I wonder if I could safely shoot the HCA speed pro arrows in my bow??

Absolutely do not go lower than 5 grains per # of draw weight! Your warranty will be void and you could get seriously injured!

That being said, if your finished arrow weight is 350 grains and your draw weight is 70 on the noggin' you should be good to go. For the longer draw guys an ultra light arrow is what's needed to get to the minimum arrow weight.

The speed pro arrows do come in 2 spine selections. Be sure you get the heavier of the 2. They are pretty durable arrows as well. Way better than the victory ultralight I used to shoot with my hca speed pro.

Norm

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by normanrd

Absolutely do not go lower than 5 grains per # of draw weight! Your warranty will be void and you could get seriously injured!

That being said, if your finished arrow weight is 350 grains and your draw weight is 70 on the noggin' you should be good to go. For the longer draw guys an ultra light arrow is what's needed to get to the minimum arrow weight.

The speed pro arrows do come in 2 spine selections. Be sure you get the heavier of the 2. They are pretty durable arrows as well. Way better than the victory ultralight I used to shoot with my hca speed pro.

Norm

Good advise right there!

Neil

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by double gun

When I was a kid I started on browning, then to pse, then bowtech, and finally mathews. I'm not particularly brand loyal, I just like to tease. That said the ass scratcher and suitcase handle of apa don't appeal to me much.

Pretty much the same ..without the Blowtech...lol shot Mathews for 20 years...till I shot some of the latest models of APA, Found them even more comfortable and accurate so I am shooting them now...

APA might not have come up with any radical lately, but when you have a great bow and add some new inovations that bow just gets better...

Also I like to support a quaility Canadian Company that really works with people...and I know parts are just overnight shipment away...
With the economy I will support Canadian Bows and strings that IMHO equal quaility of any in the world...

Neil

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

If your taking claimed IBO/ATA PSE and APA will take that claim...

as mentioned HC claimed 400FPS but that is no where near IBO or ATA...with way under weight arrows...
for example...their 2016 flagship is rated ....
Speed- up to 340-345 FPS IBO
*** up to 400 FPS with the Speed Pro Arrow

Which with same scenio other brands would make that claim also...

For many years independant bow Tests were performed and strict IBO specs were followed and APA came out tops in most...

Most top brands play the speed game and IBO specs are stretched to say the least...Brand X bows claim to have Blah Blah Speed...but brought to actual IBO/ATA specs and speed drops 20 FPS...

If one is serious about true bow speeds ...look for an independand tester with no ties to a bow manufactur ...
Here is a good article on Chasing Bow speed...it will explain a lot...on the fair scale they didnt list a lot of manufacturs in this rating...

http://www.outdoorlife.com/features/...-compound-bow/
Neil

So I take the IBO and divide it by the ATA to get the FPS, taking in the relative humidity and the barometric pressure I will have the answer...scientific calculator please

As you can tell I get results with the old girl keeping everything in my comfort zone 30 yards or less, moose and all other critters don't know what just happened other than they struggle to stay on thier feet...I will keep the charts to the smart ones and the hunting to us dumb ones who seem to put ourselves in long enduring hunts just to get the perfect shot...

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

So I take the IBO and divide it by the ATA to get the FPS, taking in the relative humidity and the barometric pressure I will have the answer...scientific calculator please

As you can tell I get results with the old girl keeping everything in my comfort zone 30 yards or less, moose and all other critters don't know what just happened other than they struggle to stay on thier feet...I will keep the charts to the smart ones and the hunting to us dumb ones who seem to put ourselves in long enduring hunts just to get the perfect shot...

More wise words..

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

More wise words..

Gotta luv technology though, my boys new Hoyt is slicker and faster than a squirrel avoiding a cat...

[Enewman]

L.O.S.T. I'm not following your Apa/pse is following the ibo/ata. Statement.

Apa is on the ibo. But not the ata

And they play the speed game. I got that straight from the horses mouth.


When a bow comes in 1 to 1.25 in long that's stretching pretty dang far. That's worse then the Mathew bows most of them are 3/4 long.


There bows shoot good. They draw good. They hold good. But when it's that long people don't buy. Big speed lost.

Hard to sale a bow like that when they can go down the street and buy an obsession that's have as loud and cheaper.

I'm getting 314 from a m5 at 70 lbs a 351 gn arrow 18gn on string. At a 26.75 measured draw. That's a 25.5 mod to get to that.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Meaning they with their rated 30/70 350gr arrow blah blah IBO/ATA specs

That bow at 1.25 doesnt seem right to me if bow is in at all specs..but anything is posssible..
However I dont think that is the norm...

Neil

[Enewman]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Meaning they with their rated 30/70 350gr arrow blah blah IBO/ATA specs

That bow at 1.25 doesnt seem right to me if bow is in at all specs..but anything is posssible..
However I dont think that is the norm...

Neil

We have two of them. All in spec except brace. I'm at 4 7/8 to get it to that draw. I've talked to several other dealers here in the states. All saying same thing. With some even longer.

I'm looking at ordering a m32 to see what is doing. I hope it's a lot better. If not. A dealer I will not be. And that's ashamed cause it's a good bow. But we deal with people wanting speed.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Enewman

We have two of them. All in spec except brace. I'm at 4 7/8 to get it to that draw. I've talked to several other dealers here in the states. All saying same thing. With some even longer.

I'm looking at ordering a m32 to see what is doing. I hope it's a lot better. If not. A dealer I will not be. And that's ashamed cause it's a good bow. But we deal with people wanting speed.

Draw also all depends how draw is measured...the standard in the industry is using the older AMO measurement which id far from "true draw'

AMO Draw Length

The AMO draw length is what manufacturers use to rate their bows and is the draw length that is printed in the bow’s specs. Unfortunately the way that the AMO length is measured can be a bit confusing because it is not an exact measurement. AMO draw length is calculated by taking the actual draw length and adding 1 3/4″.


Now that depends where and what the manufacturer determines the true draw...Mathews and other varie...resulting in longer draw...where does that manufacturer measure true draw...is it from the deepest throat of the grip...which today varies so vast and some like APA are off the riser...or is from Berger...center or shooters edge...

Instead of discussing that here I would discuss this issue again with Nibal at APA...
Neil

[Enewman]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Draw also all depends how draw is measured...the standard in the industry is using the older AMO measurement which id far from "true draw'

AMO Draw Length

The AMO draw length is what manufacturers use to rate their bows and is the draw length that is printed in the bow’s specs. Unfortunately the way that the AMO length is measured can be a bit confusing because it is not an exact measurement. AMO draw length is calculated by taking the actual draw length and adding 1 3/4″.


Now that depends where and what the manufacturer determines the true draw...Mathews and other varie...resulting in longer draw...where does that manufacturer measure true draw...is it from the deepest throat of the grip...which today varies so vast and some like APA are off the riser...or is from Berger...center or shooters edge...

Instead of discussing that here I would discuss this issue again with Nibal at APA...
Neil

I called them. I was told from the grip throat plus 1 3/4.

I have talked to nibal. He is a very nice guy. He told me he knows they draw long. And that they play the number games like everyone else. He said shoot the bow and I will understand what they have and it's not all speed. I agree the bow is a great bow. I like the bow. But if that's what your after then why list your bows as the fastest then.

I'm not trying to start crap. I was looking at this bow for a business opportunity. So I'm breaking bow down. It's not going to be good when someone comes in and wants a 370 bow but in all reality when you get it set up with a measured draw it's a 360 ibo bow. I'm good with that but Then sale a bow that's 360 not claiming its 370 cause your 30 inch mod is 3/4 to 1 inch long.


I bought the bow thinking it would be a 1/2 long. so I bought the 26 mod. The bow shot the 320 number listed. But the draw was 27. 1/4 with that mod. So it was way under what I was expecting. Now maybe this is just on the m5. I don't know.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Always PSE I guess!

Neil

[Enewman]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Always PSE I guess!

Neil

Haha. NO.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Enewman

I called them. I was told from the grip throat plus 1 3/4.

I have talked to nibal. He is a very nice guy. He told me he knows they draw long. And that they play the number games like everyone else. He said shoot the bow and I will understand what they have and it's not all speed. I agree the bow is a great bow. I like the bow. But if that's what your after then why list your bows as the fastest then.

I'm not trying to start crap. I was looking at this bow for a business opportunity. So I'm breaking bow down. It's not going to be good when someone comes in and wants a 370 bow but in all reality when you get it set up with a measured draw it's a 360 ibo bow. I'm good with that but Then sale a bow that's 360 not claiming its 370 cause your 30 inch mod is 3/4 to 1 inch long.


I bought the bow thinking it would be a 1/2 long. so I bought the 26 mod. The bow shot the 320 number listed. But the draw was 27. 1/4 with that mod. So it was way under what I was expecting. Now maybe this is just on the m5. I don't know.

Exactly the point I was trying to make previously....the APA. Draw long and always have, so their speed claims are "stretched".

LC

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Exactly the point I was trying to make previously....the APA. Draw long and always have, so their speed claims are "stretched".

LC

Show a bow manufacturer that doesnt have their speed claims "stretched" one way or another....

Neil

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Show a bow manufacturer that doesnt have their speed claims "stretched" one way or another....

Neil

Things are done to favor the specs for sure, most do not realize the IBO spec are done with or with out a bare string (no peep, no d-loop, nothing tied to the string or cables) that may or may not encorporate carefully placed "speed nocks".

That being said...maybe certain companies should report the actual draw board measured draw length to be more accurate? Especially when that is part of the "industry standard".

LC

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Things are done to favor the specs for sure, most do not realize the IBO spec are done with or with out a bare string (no peep, no d-loop, nothing tied to the string or cables) that may or may not encorporate carefully placed "speed nocks".

That being said...maybe certain companies should report the actual draw board measured draw length to be more accurate? Especially when that is part of the "industry standard".

LC

Agreed all bow Manufacturers...poundage also.....Also BTW IBO is shot Via machine with arrow and no vanes

[Enewman]

Found this

IBO Guidelines

IBO numbers are different by stark contrast! The IBO laid down their regulations in recognition of growing concern for safety in the new (at the time) 3D shooting. They saw a defined benefit of shooting a faster arrow for unknown target ranges and implemented restrictions to define what they deemed "safe" or better stated undo stresses. They allow:

Draw weight: 80 pounds +/-2 lbs
Hence, our weight may vary from 78-82 pounds and still be legal/acceptable according to IBO standards.

Arrow weight: 5 grains per pound of draw weight

The biggest note on this goes back to our maximum allowed draw weight of 80 pounds (5 grains/lb arrow weight X 80 lbs of draw weight = 400 grains). Easy math, we all know this, however, the +/-2 lbs isn't factored into this equation! I am allowed to test a bow with a draw weight of 82 pounds with an arrow weight of 400 grains because the extra 2 pounds is allotted by our variation and therefore arrow weight doesn't need to account for the extra 2 lbs.

The next part is the kicker. IBO has NO specified draw length requirements! It is, by IBO standards, ok to test a 33" draw length at 82 lbs with a 400-grain arrow.

I imagine a bunch of heads tilting and minds racing right about now! All I can say is that for me, working full time in an archery pro-shop, I lean heavily on ATA guidelines when helping a customer compare bow

[Enewman]

ATA Guidelines

Bow weight: 70 pounds +/- .2
Therefore, tested draw weights may be 69.8—70.2 pounds

Arrow weight: 5 grains per pound of draw weight.
Since draw weight is specified at 70 lbs, our arrow for testing is 350 grains for the entire weight allotment range (69.8—70.2)

Draw length: 30" +1/4" - 0"
Therefore, our test bow MAY draw 30.25" but NOT under 30"



Looks like everyone should do it this way

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Enewman

ATA Guidelines

Bow weight: 70 pounds +/- .2
Therefore, tested draw weights may be 69.8—70.2 pounds

Arrow weight: 5 grains per pound of draw weight.
Since draw weight is specified at 70 lbs, our arrow for testing is 350 grains for the entire weight allotment range (69.8—70.2)

Draw length: 30" +1/4" - 0"
Therefore, our test bow MAY draw 30.25" but NOT under 30"



Looks like everyone should do it this way

This [ATA] is what they are shooting for...
Neil

[Enewman]

[QUOTE=L.O.S.T.Arrow;3113504] This [ATA] is what they are shooting for...
Neil[/QUOTE

They may be shooting for it. But they are missing horrible.

[Lefty-Canuck]

LC

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

LC

.....and that proves what? Was it 5 grains per pound? I doubt it. It's a picture on the internet.....