30 minutes then the Americans turn all the lights out - Page 2

79ford · #31 10-01-2013, 06:59 AM

this has happened 26 times before.... They have also narrowed their budget deficit from over 1.something trillion to around 500ish billion. They are making head way.

Work in progress, too bad they can't let go of the partisan petty politics and that goes for BOTH sides. Our economic well being especially here in Alberta relies on the USA being in some sort of state of growth.

TBD · #32 10-01-2013, 07:16 AM

O'bama will blame the Rep's - The Rep's will blame O'bama the USA media will take O'bama side and the weight of public outrage will force John Boehner to CAVE ....

So when you're already printing 85 billion a month - what's another 15 -20 billion ?

TBD

PS ... maybe it's time to start buying Gold again ?

marxman · #33 10-01-2013, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thirty-30

Not to take a side either way . . but something that I've noticed in general?

You guys who make up stupid nicknames for Obama... Obummer, Ovomit, etc? It really doesn't matter what comes after that, as soon as you use one of those names you sound like an idiot and a child even if you have a very good point in what you say. (I'm not saying you do or don't, remaining neutral in that one)

I don't understand why people do it. Baffles me.

You see an decently intellectual debate and then someone comes along speaking like that and it's like the drunken village idiot blundered into adults talking..

you are right but it doesnt matter these people are only preaching to the choir i should not find this kind of thing annoying but have to admit i do

Sundancefisher · #34 10-01-2013, 07:29 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/30/politi...html?hpt=us_c2

Here's a quick Q&A to get you caught up on what happened and what to expect:

1. Why did the government shut down?

Congress has one key duty in the Constitution -- pass spending bills that fund the government. If it doesn't, most functions of government -- from funding agencies to paying out small business loans and processing passport requests -- grinds to a halt. But some services, like Social Security, air traffic control and active military pay, will continue to be funded. Oh, and Congress still gets paid, too.

2. Why does it have to pass a spending bill in the middle of the year?

It may be the middle of the calendar year, but the government's fiscal year runs from October 1 to September 30.

3. What was the holdup?

House Republicans insist any new spending bill include provisions to either defund, derail or otherwise chip away at Obamacare. Senate Democrats are just as insistent that it doesn't.

4. How is Obamacare tied to the spending bill?

The health care law isn't directly tied to funding the government, but it's being used as a bargaining chip. A group of Republicans, led by freshman Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, believe the president's signature domestic policy achievement is so bad for the country that it is worth disrupting government funding to undercut it.

5. What are some of the objections to Obamacare?

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, the actual name of the law, requires all Americans to have health insurance. Opponents say it'll hurt employers and amounts to overreach by the federal government. Some have also criticized the medical device tax that's part of the law, saying that by imposing such a tax, it's basically sending jobs overseas.

6. What's the Democrats' defense?

They say the law will expand access to health care and help rein in the rising costs of coverage. Obamacare prevents those with pre-existing medical conditions from being denied health insurance, and proponents say those who have health insurance will no longer have to indirectly pay for those who show up in emergency rooms uninsured.

Fact check: The myths and realities of Obamacare

7. What happened with the spending bill over the weekend?

The Republican-dominated House passed two spending bill amendments Sunday morning -- one that would delay Obamacare for a year and one that would repeal the Obamacare's medical device tax. The bill went back to the Senate, where Democrats who control that chamber have consistently said any changes to Obamacare would be a deal-killer.

8. What happened Monday?

The Senate rejected the latest House proposal, prompting the House to approve another spending plan that would remove the Obamacare individual mandate. The Senate rejected that, too, setting the stage for a shutdown.

9. What happened overnight?

House members voted to reaffirm the anti-Obamacare amendments that Senate Democrats have said would be a deal-breaker. They also requested a conference with the Senate to work out their differences.

10. What will happen Tuesday?

The Senate will reconvene and will likely make a decision on the House's offer to talk. But Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said late Monday night that he wouldn't agree to such a meeting until the House presents a clean spending bill stripped of the amendments.

"We will not go to conference with a gun to our head," he said.

11. Has this happened before?

Yes, this shutdown is the first since late 1995. That one lasted 21 days, into 1996.

12. How many government workers could be furloughed?

Most of the 3.3 million government workers are deemed "essential" -- they'll keep working. But more than 800,000 government employees will sit at home, according to a CNN analysis.

Many of the furloughed federal workers are supposed to be out of their offices within four hours of the start of business Tuesday.

13. What will this do to the economy?

Depends on how long it lasts. If it's just a few days, the hit might not be severe. But the total economic impact is likely to be at least 10 times greater than the simple calculation of lost wages of federal workers, said Brian Kessler, economist with Moody's Analytics. His firm estimates that a three- to four-week shutdown would cost the economy about $55 billion.

14. How will this affect me?

In ways big and small. The mail will continue to come. The military will continue to fight. And Social Security checks will continue to be paid.

But if you need a federal loan to buy a house, you'll have to wait. If you want a gun permit or a passport, that won't happen anytime soon.

15. Will a shutdown kill Obamacare?

No. Most of the money for Obamacare comes from new taxes and fees, as well as from cost cuts to other programs like Medicare and other types of funding that will continue despite the government shutdown.

16. Will the president get paid during a shutdown?

Yes. His salary -- $400,000 -- is considered mandatory spending. It won't be affected.

17. What about House and Senate members?

They'll keep drawing checks, too. The 27th Amendment prevents any Congress from changing its own pay.

18. What does John Q. Public think of all this?

A CNN/ORC International poll that came out Monday found that 46% will blame congressional Republicans if the government closes its doors, with 36% saying the president would be more responsible and 13% pointing fingers at both.

19. Isn't there another matter -- the debt ceiling?

Ah yes, that's the next battle brewing. Remember that time when you maxed out your credit card? That's what the debt limit is all about. The U.S. is on the verge of maxing out its $16.699 trillion credit card. And the president must ask Congress to raise the country's credit limit.

But the debt ceiling debacle won't come to a head until October 17. Perhaps it's best to deal with one showdown at a time.

20. Can Congress agree on anything?

The House and Senate did agree on one thing. They finalized legislation Monday to keep paying troops in the event of a shutdown

marxman · #35 10-01-2013, 07:32 AM

you have the 2 plus 2 tea party type people who dont undersand the economy or consequences and you have bernanke and crowd who seem to have abandoned an accountable system for a continuously managed or fixed system, like the medium is the message. i think they believe but dont admit that the system can never add up and that they should continuously wing it if debt has to be restructured sometime in the future so be it start the game over an irresponsible way to operate but the only way for capitalism as we know it to work

dumoulin · #36 10-01-2013, 07:36 AM

Their government is in political impass. Shutting it down would do nothing new. They are high centered without a winch and no one wants to get out and push.

Sundancefisher · #37 10-01-2013, 07:37 AM

My own summary is:

If you can afford coverage you must get a minimum level so as to not piggyback for free.

Providers can cut off the insured when they get sick or if your wife gets pregnant 5 months before coverage is renewed they can not cancel your policy or make the pregnancy a preexisting condition that is not covered... Typically a $50,000 hospital bill.

Will save money. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...PP)_per_capita Currently the US health care spending is getting out of control.

40% of Americans are uninsured.

"ObamaCare in 100 Words
The Affordable Care Act (ObamaCare) increases the quality, accessibility and affordability of health insurance. In exchange most people, who can afford to, must obtain health coverage by 2014 or pay a per month fee. The law eliminates pre-existing conditions, stops insurance companies from dropping you when you are sick, protects against gender discrimination, expands free preventative services and health benefits, expands Medicaid and CHIP, improves Medicare, mandates larger employers insure employees, creates a marketplace for subsidized insurance providing tens of millions individuals, families and small businesses with free or low-cost health insurance, and decreases healthcare spending and the deficit." http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-explained.php

ObamaCare Summary: A Summary of Obama's Health Care Reform
A Quick Overview of ObamaCare and How it Works
The following ObamaCare Summary is a quick overview of Obama's health care reform. The purpose of our Obama Health Care summary is to help you understand what ObamaCare does and how it affects you. The summary includes a breakdown of changes to the way healthcare works in the U.S., new ways to buy regulated health insurance, how to get cost assistance, and other important aspects of the law that affect you. If you would like a super simple explain-it-to-me-like-I'm-five explanation of what ObamaCare is please see Obamacare Explained.

Obama Health Care Summary
ObamaCare, AKA the Affordable Care Act, reforms the health insurance industry and the American health care system as a whole. The law contains over a thousand pages of provisions that give Americans more rights and protections and expand access to affordable quality health care to tens of millions of uninsured.

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (the official title for ObamaCare) was signed into law March 23rd, 2010 and upheld by a supreme court ruling on June 28, 2012. During the ruling the law was changed to allow State's to opt-out of expanding access to Medicaid.

The law requires all Americans have health insurance by 2014 (or pay a tax penalty). ObamaCare was ruled to be a tax and not a mandate. Insurance can be purchased through your State's Health Insurance Exchange Marketplace.

A Summary of ObamaCare and Insurance
The Affordable Care Act reforms the way we buy health insurance requiring that all Americans, purchase a private health care plan, get an exemption or pay a 1% - 2.5% of their taxable income or a set amount (it's a tax, not a mandate) see ObamaCare's Individual Mandate for more details. Americans who cannot afford health insurance will most likely either qualify for Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP or get assistance in the form of tax credits or assistance with up-front costs through their State's Health Insurance Exchanges (HIX).

Everything You Need to Know About ObamaCare
The following video by the Kaiser Foundation tells you everything you need to know about ObamaCare for 2014 in 7 minutes. The video summarizes what ObamaCare is, what's changing, why it's changing, what costs are associated with it, who needs to buy insurance, how to get cost assistance, and how you, your family and your business can obtain affordable quality health coverage for 2014.

A Summary of ObamaCare New Benefits & Cost Assistance
Many Americans will keep their employer-based or current insurance while low-to-middle income Americans will be able to purchase federally regulated and subsidized insurance through online health insurance exchanges. The law implements unprecedented benefits, rules and regulations leading to better quality health insurance. New preventive care provisions and protections include insurance companies no longer being able to deny individuals for preexisting conditions or being able to drop their coverage for being sick. All plans sold on our off the insurance exchange must now include "ten essential benefits", find out more about ObamaCare Health Benefits or get more ObamaCare Facts now.

ObamaCare Coverage Summary
Regardless of what you pay, ObamaCare greatly improves the health care industry. 44 million Americans who currently do not have health insurance are projected to be covered under new health care law. Other coverage milestones include better preventive care, women's health services, better care for seniors and expanded coverage of our nations poorest. New reforms include letting young adults stay on their parents plan until 26, eliminating pre-existing conditions and preventing insurance companies from dropping you when you are sick.

Learn more about the Benefits of ObamaCare

Did you know that Obamacare healthcare reform includes the biggest middle class tax cut for healthcare in America's history? ObamaCare actually saves low to middle income families and small businesses billions of dollars by providing reduced costs and reduced premiums to millions of Americans.

A Summary of Health Insurance Exchanges / Marketplaces
The new health care law makes Health insurance available to most uninsured low and middle income individuals through a health insurance exchange also known as a health insurance marketplace. The exchanges are state or federally run online marketplaces where customers can shop for affordable quality health insurance. Small businesses with less than 100 full-time employees can also use the exchange to purchase insurance for their employees (the small business marketplace is called the SHOP exchange). The Health Insurance Exchanges will open in Oct of 2013, coverage starts Jan 1st, 2014.

Get Our ObamaCareFacts.com Free Unbiased Health Insurance Exchange Guide Now.

(ObamaCare Summary Image is public domain)

Medicaid and Medicare Reform Summary
ObamaCare also expands Medicaid in order to provide health coverage to 17 million uninsured Americans who are falling in between the cracks of being able to afford insurance and qualifying for Medicaid. Obama's health care plan overhauls Medicare as well adding new benefits, expanding coverage, fighting fraud, cutting costs, and improving care for patients.

Want more than a Summary of ObamaCare, get the full text and learn more about the ObamaCare Bill.

ObamaCare Overall Cost Summary

The ObamaCare cost will be around $1.1 trillion over the next ten year according to an updated CBO report. This number may seem big but the end result is actually a reduction of our national deficit by $143 billion dollars!

Summarizing the cost of ObamaCare for individuals is trickier; those who make over 400% of the poverty line may pay about what they do now, while those under will most likely pay less, due to financial assistance. Learn more about ObamaCare's Cost.

A Summary of ObamaCare and Small Business
Small businesses with under the equivalent of 50 full-time employees and who make less than $250k will reap the benefits of ObamaCare getting better access to more affordable quality insurance. Those with over 50 full-time employees or those who make over $250k may face the "employer mandate" and Medicare Part A increase. Small businesses under 35 full-time employees insure employees, if they choose, through tax credits available on the "SHOP".

Some people say this will hinder job growth and hiring. This has been proven true at many companies who are cutting worker hours to part-time to avoid insuring workers. On the other side of the coin ObamaCare creates tens of thousands of jobs in healthcare and Government jobs.

Find out what ObamaCare means to businesses and their employees.

A Summary of How ObamaCare is Paid For
In summary, ObamaCare will be paid for through budget cuts, taxes and government funding. This includes a .9% Medicare tax and unearned income tax (on income over $200/$250k), cuts to wasteful spending, a tax on insurance companies and a tax on employers with over 50 full-time employees who do not supply their employees with affordable quality health care. This is just a summary of how ObamaCare is paid for. Learn More about ObamaCare Taxes.

It's important to note that the taxes work on a sliding scale, so the more you make the more you pay. Nearly 99% of families and 97% of small businesses will benefit from ObamaCare. While over 70% will save money and have better coverage by being able to purchase their healthcare through a competitive insurance exchange or qualify for Government program.

Health Care Reform Summary
ObamaCare reforms everything from practices of insurance companies to ensuring better quality health care for all Americans. A summary of all the reforms within ObamaCare is a available here at our Health Care Reform Timeline.

We have only touched upon some of the benefits of the Affordable Care Act in this ObamaCare summary. The Bill itself is a cumulation of many different reforms that improve our healthcare system and provide affordable health insurance to all Americans. Read more about the specifics of ObamaCare or read a more detailed overview of what the ObamaCare has to offer in our Affordable Care Act Summary.

http://obamacarefacts.com/obamahealthcare-summary.php

dantonsen · #38 10-01-2013, 08:00 AM

Now do you think all these numbnuts would dig a debt hole this big if interest rates were 9%? Probably not, it is funny to watch countries and people drown in debt but in the end everyone pays. There is no free money. Every dollar borrowed from the future to spend today cripples the system slowly as debt service eats a greater and greater portion of 'real revenue'.

Kurt505 · #39 10-01-2013, 08:00 AM

Obamacare is a good idea for a HEALTHY economy, that's the key. If your broke, you don't change the system to keep spending money! It's wise to put it off until you get your bank account in order. It's childish to ignore facts just because you really really want something.

Odumba is a name I got from a friend who lives in PA a few years ago, I have to say I agree with him. He warned me when obama first got elected that he was elected from the welfare populous, and that he was going to run them into the ground. I'll admit the US was in rough shape when he took the reins, but it seems he hasn't made many wise decisions to get it back on track.

Refusing to listen to reason, but instead shut down the government, costing the country millions a day, not to mention the long term costs of starting the system back up again is stupid and childish IMO.

rhuntley12 · #40 10-01-2013, 08:42 AM

Was also warned Obama was going to take away everyones guns, etc.

Basically what happened was a bill got passed in 2009. Republicans don't like it and are throwing a hissy fit. It's their job after passing a bill to enact it and they don't want to.

They need to move ahead, if they don't like it they can work on having it ammended. You know how the US government is supposed to work.

It's like not agreeing with a call made in a sport so you go cut the power to the stadium.

midgetwaiter · #41 10-01-2013, 09:47 AM

The Tea Party faction within the Republicans are trying to subvert the constitution of the US because they don't like the outcome of a fair process.

Obama passed a law they don't like and they ran against it in 2012, if Romney won he was going to repeal it. He lost.

They do hold a majority of the seats in congress though so they have the option of passing a law or amendment to repeal the healthcare law. This would have to also be approved by the senate which has a majority of democrats so it's not going to pass. I can kind of understand why you might want to pass your repeal once for symbolic reasons, make a little event out of it or something. This is not what these guys have done, they have passed this useless resolution over 40 times.

I would say that if the majority of voters support the law and the upper house has rejected the resolution to appeal it forty times but they're still doing it, this shows some serious contempt for democracy. If you are in the 50% -1 camp, YOU LOSE. Suck it up princess.

The really contemptible part of this though is what they are doing to the people that are furloughed because of this. Sorry mister park ranger, you get no job for a while while we fight a battle we've already lost OVER FORTY TIMES. Hope your mortgage payment isn't due this week!

Big Daddy Badger · #42 10-01-2013, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toomanyhobbies

Seriously? You do know what Obama's crew calls Tea Party people, don't you? Pull your head out of that dark place, the fumes are making you daft.

Dropouts?
Trotskyiets?

Tundra Monkey · #43 10-01-2013, 10:57 AM

Mehhh....just ast the auto dudes for a bail out....problem fixed

AbAngler · #44 10-01-2013, 11:47 AM

I'm off the San Diego tomorrow for a week. I wonder if I'll notice any differences?

One things for sure. The history books aren't going to be too kind to Mr. Obama when looking back...

great white whaler · #45 10-01-2013, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbAngler

I'm off the San Diego tomorrow for a week. I wonder if I'll notice any differences?

One things for sure. The history books aren't going to be too kind to Mr. Obama when looking back...

Beer is way cheaper and so is gasoline,,and new tires,and new fishing gear.

AbAngler · #46 10-01-2013, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by great white whaler

Beer is way cheaper and so is gasoline,,and new tires,and new fishing gear.

Lol. Yes, beer is alot cheaper! I'm wondering if I'll notice any differences in the city compared to the other times I've been there. We go a couple times a year...

Sundancefisher · #47 10-01-2013, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbAngler

Lol. Yes, beer is alot cheaper! I'm wondering if I'll notice any differences in the city compared to the other times I've been there. We go a couple times a year...

US stock market has climbed under Obama. binLaden was waxed. He pulled out of Afganistan and Iraq. Brought in a capitalist yet universal health care plan. Probably the smartest and well spoken President next to Clinton.

No photos of him fishing however. Saw George Bush float down the Bow once.

AbAngler · #48 10-01-2013, 12:51 PM

The city.

Since the gov shut down.

I am in the twilight zone. Good thing I will be on the beach by this time tomorrow.

Sundancefisher · #49 10-01-2013, 01:10 PM

Would it not be funny if the American people realized what a waste of money the politican and bureaucrats are to the economy.

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/world-indexes/

No government and the markets are up!

dantonsen · #50 10-01-2013, 01:32 PM

US treasury yields only up .o1 points today..... for an idea how no one cares. Italy or Spain stopped making payments and shut down yields would blow the roof off.

BGSH · #51 10-01-2013, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbAngler

I'm off the San Diego tomorrow for a week. I wonder if I'll notice any differences?

One things for sure. The history books aren't going to be too kind to Mr. Obama when looking back...

Depends if your going to the zoo, any nationak parks, any attractions, that sort of thing, if your going there to just sit in a hotel you should be fine.

Bolete · #52 10-01-2013, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

The Tea Party faction within the Republicans are trying to subvert the constitution of the US because they don't like the outcome of a fair process.

The constitution allows for exactly this process.

dumoulin · #53 10-01-2013, 04:20 PM

I had an interesting chat this Sunday last with my nephew who works as an ENT (Ear, nose and throat) surgeon in California. We spoke about Obamacare as I knew little to nothing about it. I though he'd would have a better perspective than the media about it.

He told me that its a numbers game. Each hospital department is given x amount if cash from the federal government which is used to treat patients. Each procedure requires a full physical and each treatment has a given protocol. For instance, if a patient comes in with an ear issue, he needs to perform a physical which is very time consuming and expensive. I a surgery is wanted, it will be done BUT if he suspects that there's an issue with other ear, his hands are tied unless he wants to do it on his own dollars.

He said in Canada, they would just do it regardless of the situation.

That said, he did also mention that the waiting lines are reasonably short BUT the system is hugely bias and clients are not treated equally. VIP patients are treated as such while welfare patients are treated like dirt since surgeons are paid in relationship to the type of surgery and the origins of the funds. Therefore, if an Obamacare patient comes in, they are patched up and sent home while an insured patient gets a higher quality of care. Finally, a wealthy patient who pays cash, get to notch service.

Obamacare may be more cost efficient and guarantee a service provided but the quality of care may vary unless the attending physian has a heart or a late T time.

Okotokian · #54 10-01-2013, 04:26 PM

The political/cultural war down here is insane. You lose a round, move on, but they just can't. Watched a program Sunday night about Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan were miles part but could actually respect each other and work together. These guys now don't seem to be able to. The looney wings of both parties are calling the shots. Rep's hatred of all things Obama seems to freeze them, but from what I can see as a very temporary observer here, they seem to be on the short end of the public opinion battle.

Big Daddy Badger · #55 10-01-2013, 04:57 PM

Well its been nours sine the US government closed shop and there doesn't seem to be any tangible effect... unless you are unfortunate enough to have one of THOSE government jobs or are vulnerable and in need of government services.
Core Republicans and Democrates are happy as clams... and the world didn't go to hell in a handbasket in the last few hours.

Gee... I guess it was a bit of an empty threat afterall.
One that both parties tried to capitalize on by spreading fear and dis-information.

Its getting hard to tell these guys appart.

leeaspell · #56 10-01-2013, 05:08 PM

dumoulin · #57 10-01-2013, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeaspell

Isn't that the truth...

markg · #58 10-01-2013, 05:48 PM

http://youtu.be/y-IemeM-Ado

Add this one to his list of nails in the american dollars coffin

Okotokian · #59 10-01-2013, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

Core Republicans and Democrates are happy as clams... .

Yeah, because they passed a motion that THEY would still get paid. Quickest way to end this would have been for them to forfiet their pay if any other government worker had to. This thing would be over already. Hypocrites.

And you know what? this is going to happen all over again when the debt ceiling has to be raised in a few months.

leeaspell · #60 10-01-2013, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Yeah, because they passed a motion that THEY would still get paid. Quickest way to end this would have been for them to forfiet their pay if any other government worker had to. This thing would be over already. Hypocrites.

And you know what? this is going to happen all over again when the debt ceiling has to be raised in a few months.

Few months? What I've been hearing on the news is it will be reached on the 17th