Alberta Brook Record

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by jrs

Biggest laker ever recorded was what i believe would be classified as infertile. I can't remember if it was classified as 3N or simply as lacking an aspect of its reproductive system. It does indeed happen in natural systems, just not very often. Doesn't need to be a 3N mutation to lead to crazy growth characteristics, other things can divert energy from reproduction to growth.

There is no doubt that this is true however, it doesnt comment on any line/rod/reel records for AB trout as the laker in question was netted.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by fishman

Do a little research and you will find over the years that most modern records of trout in alberta are naturaly sterile triploids and have ate there way to being bigger and instead of thinking about sex

Hey Fishman, I dont think anyone is attacking you. I think you made some vague blanket statements and I don't think there is any evidence to back them up. I am one of the people here that does tons of research. I'm not aware of any of the current or past record trout from AB having been shown to be natural triploids and would be interested to learn more about this.

I know there is anecdotal evidence relating to natural triploidy in some large trout/charr; this includes the 100+lb laker from north AB, as well as a very large steelhead which was caught in Alaska.

If there is a source for your original suggestion, I'd be interested in reading it.

cheers

[fishman]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Hey Fishman, I dont think anyone is attacking you. I think you made some vague blanket statements and I don't think there is any evidence to back them up. I am one of the people here that does tons of research. I'm not aware of any of the current or past record trout from AB having been shown to be natural triploids and would be interested to learn more about this.

I know there is anecdotal evidence relating to natural triploidy in some large trout/charr; this includes the 100+lb laker from north AB, as well as a very large steelhead which was caught in Alaska.

If there is a source for your original suggestion, I'd be interested in reading it.

cheers

Where i first getting intrested in this was in the 80's when all the questions where going around about the record rainbow being caught at maligne lake.some people were saying that it came out the valley of the five but it was closed and others said it came from a lake in B.C....anyways i read alot of articles that were wrote on this and it was quoted in this article that the rainbow was a natural triploid or not having any sex and this is why it got so big and the age of the fish was very young i cannot remember how old but something like 5 or 6 years old.....also this articled quoted that many alberta trout records were nothing more then natural or freaks of nature triploids this was many years before being introduced in lakes around.....he also stated just like in nature some records where normal fish tah just grew big...i have read quite a few artciles about this over the year and i do not have most of my fishing mags that i read them in as i moved and got rid of them

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Hey Fishman, I dont think anyone is attacking you. I think you made some vague blanket statements and I don't think there is any evidence to back them up. I am one of the people here that does tons of research. I'm not aware of any of the current or past record trout from AB having been shown to be natural triploids and would be interested to learn more about this.

I know there is anecdotal evidence relating to natural triploidy in some large trout/charr; this includes the 100+lb laker from north AB, as well as a very large steelhead which was caught in Alaska.

If there is a source for your original suggestion, I'd be interested in reading it.

cheers

I thought the 100 lb laker was caught in Saskatchewan...Lake Athabasca

[spopadyn]

Originally Posted by TyreeUM

I thought the 100 lb laker was caught in Saskatchewan...Lake Athabasca

It was

[McLeod]

Originally Posted by fishman

Where i first getting intrested in this was in the 80's when all the questions where going around about the record rainbow being caught at maligne lake.some people were saying that it came out the valley of the five but it was closed and others said it came from a lake in B.C....anyways i read alot of articles that were wrote on this and it was quoted in this article that the rainbow was a natural triploid or not having any sex and this is why it got so big and the age of the fish was very young i cannot remember how old but something like 5 or 6 years old.....also this articled quoted that many alberta trout records were nothing more then natural or freaks of nature triploids this was many years before being introduced in lakes around.....he also stated just like in nature some records where normal fish tah just grew big...i have read quite a few artciles about this over the year and i do not have most of my fishing mags that i read them in as i moved and got rid of them

First off ..Your comments about naturally ocuring triploids is correct.

As for the Maligne Rainbow... I don't want to get into but it was not caught at Maligne ..I don't care what anyone says..

[fishman]

Originally Posted by McLeod

First off ..Your comments about naturally ocuring triploids is correct.......i was starting to feel alone on this topic and i have been a avid flyfishermen since 1980 and i have paid my dues as i have did enough research on this topic and many more fishing topics.....i know some very knowlede able fisherman in alberta and many of you have never heard of them as they don't write articles in your local newspaper or go on forums like this .......what i am trying to say is don't judge a book by its cover

As for the Maligne Rainbow... I don't want to get into but it was not caught at Maligne ..I don't care what anyone says..

Mcleod i heard many stories stating the same as you say that it was not caught at maligne...i remember one fellow from jasper telling me that maligne rainbows looks totally diffrent then the one that was said to be caught at maligne.....i heard it was caught at the valley of the five but i also heard there is now way that that lake would produce a fish nay where that big and then i heard it was caught in a lake in BC not sure what lake, but suppose to be a horseback ride in..

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by TyreeUM

I thought the 100 lb laker was caught in Saskatchewan...Lake Athabasca

That's right

I've got to refresh my northen geography I think.

[outwalking]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

I kind of caught a 3" brookie once.

As I was pulling my fly off the water the poor thing took the fly and was launched 50 yards into the forest on the back cast, never to be found.

Heh, I just had to acknowledge this post becuse I can totally picture that..lol. Poor widdle bugger!

[McLeod]

Originally Posted by fishman

Mcleod i heard many stories stating the same as you say that it was not caught at maligne...i remember one fellow from jasper telling me that maligne rainbows looks totally diffrent then the one that was said to be caught at maligne.....i heard it was caught at the valley of the five but i also heard there is now way that that lake would produce a fish nay where that big and then i heard it was caught in a lake in BC not sure what lake, but suppose to be a horseback ride in..

It was caught in the first lake in the valley of five.
When it was caught the lake was closed.

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by McLeod

It was caught in the first lake in the valley of five.
When it was caught the lake was closed.

haha is this for real?

[McLeod]

Originally Posted by tyreeum

haha is this for real?

yes

[clouserminnow]

Here is the picture of the fish from the Natutal History Museum in SK. Makes my brother look like a midget.


Wow!

[fish gunner]

ok this could get messy, I totally respect the fact that a triploid fish currently holds the world record for rainbow trout. in my opinion the issue with the record is triploid fish quickly attain upper limit of the species. in this case rainbow trout. now most folks see a 45lb + rainbow and think freak fish. I have been fortunate enough to fish the big lakes in southern BC for nearly ten years. with a few outings in the last five. rainbow trout under perfect conditions will attain the size seen in triploids. it just takes twice as long(if not longer). so now we get records that have very little chance of being equaled out of the lake they were taken from. now to alberta brookies. it is my understanding brookies are the hardest common trout/char to grow huge naturally. they currently sit with the smallest world record. brown 40+ rainbow 40+ bull 30+ cuttie 40+ laker60+ brookie sit at 14 lb tiny in comparison to its kin. it is my belief brookies were over fished in there native range prior to the modern record keeping limiting the size they would naturally attain. given the limitations of alberta waters I do not see a new record soon. far to much poaching, the record would be killed. limited waters even capable of growing monster brookies. worst of all no pics it did not happen.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by clouserminnow

Here is the picture of the fish from the Natutal History Museum in SK. Makes my brother look like a midget.


Wow!

Awesome pic, hehe

[Don Andersen]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

ok this could get messy, I totally respect the fact that a triploid fish currently holds the world record for rainbow trout. in my opinion the issue with the record is triploid fish quickly attain upper limit of the species. in this case rainbow trout. now most folks see a 45lb + rainbow and think freak fish. I have been fortunate enough to fish the big lakes in southern BC for nearly ten years. with a few outings in the last five. rainbow trout under perfect conditions will attain the size seen in triploids. it just takes twice as long(if not longer). so now we get records that have very little chance of being equaled out of the lake they were taken from. now to alberta brookies. it is my understanding brookies are the hardest common trout/char to grow huge naturally. they currently sit with the smallest world record. brown 40+ rainbow 40+ bull 30+ cuttie 40+ laker60+ brookie sit at 14 lb tiny in comparison to its kin. it is my belief brookies were over fished in there native range prior to the modern record keeping limiting the size they would naturally attain. given the limitations of alberta waters I do not see a new record soon. far to much poaching, the record would be killed. limited waters even capable of growing monster brookies. worst of all no pics it did not happen.

Brook trout were available in all sizes in the mid 1800's in upper New York State. Some well over 9 lbs. But Leonard of the Rod Company decided to get into the business of rising fish. Like all good businessmen he wanted a product that got out the door fast so Leonard picked a brook trout population that spawned @ age 2. He shipped there all over N. America and today we are still infected with his business sense.

regards,


Don

[McLeod]

Don is right. Not sure how trips will effect that though.
And there are a few places around that have some Coasters .
That strain produces some large fish! All this talk about big brookies

[fish gunner]

brookies are a nemisis of mine. I have landed all the other common trout/ char to a size worthy of a wall mount. not the pesky speck. my personal best sits at 17" a fine size out here in the west. I just hope one day the fish deities smile on me and let me hook one close to trophy size. I have a local water capable of producing a good size brookie, however getting one seems to have eluded me. this years must do list include maline & medicine lake. fingers crossed.

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

brookies are a nemisis of mine. I have landed all the other common trout/ char to a size worthy of a wall mount. not the pesky speck. my personal best sits at 17" a fine size out here in the west. I just hope one day the fish deities smile on me and let me hook one close to trophy size. I have a local water capable of producing a good size brookie, however getting one seems to have eluded me. this years must do list include maline & medicine lake. fingers crossed.

I have caught some bigger than 17 on dry flys in early fall fishing the inflow of medecine lake in the evening. Later in the fall when the lake turns into just a channel, there are some good runs about half way down the lake but it requires you walking through mud up to your knees in places to get there. Dry flies all day down there....but best is morning and evening. Everyonce and a while you hook into a big rainbow too...had a tough time with them on my 4 wt. though and have yet to land one of the big ones. Easy 24 inchers.

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by Daceminnow

where's Speckle? if there's anyone, he'll have some food for thought on this.

Dace

Type O error its corrected now the Alberta Record is 12#14 oz from Pine Lake Wood Buffalo National Park

i Reported it to Dean (AGFA) and Rob on here last year

Mine is 12#13 oz and # 2 in the World Record Books and a #8 line class WR as the Alberta Record was never record in the WR books

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by fishman

Mcleod i heard many stories stating the same as you say that it was not caught at maligne...i remember one fellow from jasper telling me that maligne rainbows looks totally diffrent then the one that was said to be caught at maligne.....i heard it was caught at the valley of the five but i also heard there is now way that that lake would produce a fish nay where that big and then i heard it was caught in a lake in BC not sure what lake, but suppose to be a horseback ride in..

\
I will answer you this way in 1981 first week June David Donald Parks Canada Fishery Bio caught and release 4 big rainbows from the first lake in the Valley of the Five ..all were over 20 # up to 24.. if you look at the zooligy and Plankton.. it is unreal for that lake ..if you look at when the Solomon rainbow was caught the First Lake was closed to July long weekend .. i had copies of David's studys and in my one book on the first page over top of picture of Rons rainbow he wrote Bull**** DD

Food for Thought
David

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

\
I will answer you this way in 1981 first week June David Donald Parks Canada Fishery Bio caught and release 4 big rainbows from the first lake in the Valley of the Five ..all were over 20 # up to 24.. if you look at the zooligy and Plankton.. it is unreal for that lake ..if you look at when the Solomon rainbow was caught the First Lake was closed to July long weekend .. i had copies of David's studys and in my one book on the first page over top of picture of Rons rainbow he wrote Bull**** DD

Food for Thought
David

ok so the guy cheated, my question is -does this lake still grow rainbows this big? I never spent anytime fishing any of those lakes.

[McLeod]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

\
I will answer you this way in 1981 first week June David Donald Parks Canada Fishery Bio caught and release 4 big rainbows from the first lake in the Valley of the Five ..all were over 20 # up to 24.. if you look at the zooligy and Plankton.. it is unreal for that lake ..if you look at when the Solomon rainbow was caught the First Lake was closed to July long weekend .. i had copies of David's studys and in my one book on the first page over top of picture of Rons rainbow he wrote Bull**** DD

Food for Thought
David

And that is the real story.. I would elaborate on what happened after the fish was caught but I hardily doubt the one individual who could come clean on this would ...I think I know why he went along with it...Money , Maligne lake promotion for tourism.(guided fishing) ...
The fish gods will clean this up someday !

[fishman]

Originally Posted by McLeod

And that is the real story.. I would elaborate on what happened after the fish was caught but I hardily doubt the one individual who could come clean on this would ...I think I know why he went along with it...Money , Maligne lake promotion for tourism.(guided fishing) ...
The fish gods will clean this up someday !

Funny Mcloed i heard the same story a couple years ago from a fellow from Hinton and i guess we are talking about the same guiding sevice which name is a west indian spice......i havn't heard another story about the valley of five lakes, i doubt it reproduces fish so it is probably dead from fish right

[Speckle55]

Actually Rons fish was caught in 1980 so those 4 fish were netted by David Donald in June 1980 and released

David

[McLeod]

Originally Posted by TyreeUM

ok so the guy cheated, my question is -does this lake still grow rainbows this big? I never spent anytime fishing any of those lakes.

NO REPRODUCTION. It's now dead and will never have fish again unless a pirate strikes such as Patricia !

[fishman]

Originally Posted by McLeod

NO REPRODUCTION. It's now dead and will never have fish again unless a pirate strikes such as Patricia !

lol funny thing i know exactly what u r talking about....know the whole story

[Christofficer]

I caught a 0.2 oz out of the elbow. Do I get a prize for the record smallest fish of alberta?

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by Christofficer

I caught a 0.2 oz out of the elbow. Do I get a prize for the record smallest fish of alberta?

could you clean it with a wunder boner?

[terriblebear]

Its not required for fish to be triploids to get to massive record sizes. I tracked down a report of a 14.5 pound Manitoba Brooktrout test netted in a lake in the Duck mountains. I talked to the fish tech who netted it during a lake survey.He confirmed the size as it was stated,14.5 pounds. As for the Alberta record the same conditions probably were in place for that fish to grow over 12 pounds. Those conditions are,stocked in a lake with no spawning areas,no competition for forage. Indeed all these stocked lakes do is grow forage in the absence of fish. Just look at that huge Brookie taken out of Barbe lake Manitoba in 06. Once the forage gets knocked back the conditions to grow huge fish in these bodies of water no longer exist. Since there is no recruitment of trout once the trout die off all you need to do is wait 6 or 7 years for the forage to rebound and you can grow big Brookis al over again.Oh yeah the forage has to include a dense minnow population. Remember the trout are stocked at a size to prey on them at once.