Latest Greatest Muledeer Management Plan

[Lefty-Canuck]

I agree, I was just expanding on your post, my question wasn't directed towards you but in reading it could see how it could be taken that way

I also find it hypocritical that we allow game farming to continue here and on the other hand have launched devastating culls across the Eastern border....why don't we fix the identified issue in our own provincial borders first?

Here is another news flash....Saskatchewan doesn't do a cull and we do.....we clear the way for more animals from infected areas in Saskatchewan to migrate to lower population density areas (due to culls and hard winters) thus enhancing the chance of CWD continuing to come to Alberta....

CWD aside.... I think Saskatchewan does some things that we should do here in Alberta.

LC

[hal53]

Originally Posted by 270WIN

As elkhunter11 said "exactly". Pre-emptive action is precisely what is needed and it starts by putting as much pressure as we can, at every opportunity, on our elected representatives to kill the game farming industry once and for all. I've done it and I know lots of others on here have as well. So let's keep it up.

As for "pointing fingers at the neighbors", my comment about Saskatchewan was made in response to an earlier one on here bragging up that province's wildlife management policies and knocking Alberta's. I'm certainly not saying that Alberta is doing everything right. I am saying, however, that Saskatchewan and it's game farming industry is responsible for the spread of CWD to this province and you know that is true Lefty.

I'm also saying that CWD may be the single most serious and difficult conservation issue facing wildlife biologists in Alberta today and taking cheap shots at them, as others have done on here, accomplishes nothing.

so Alberta is leading the way to eradicating CWD?, is that what you are saying?

[270WIN]

No Hal. Not saying that at all. Alberta could do a pile more and set a good example for the rest of North America by having the balls to kill the game farming industry.
Whether the culls are effective or not in controlling the spread of CWD may never be known for sure, I suppose. But one thing is for sure and that is that the culls would never have taken place if we didn't have CWD and we got that disease from Sask. That's all I was trying to say when I threw my two cents worth in on this one initially.

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I agree, I was just expanding on your post, my question wasn't directed towards you but in reading it could see how it could be taken that way

I also find it hypocritical that we allow game farming to continue here and on the other hand have launched devastating culls across the Eastern border....why don't we fix the identified issue in our own provincial borders first?

Here is another news flash....Saskatchewan doesn't do a cull and we do.....we clear the way for more animals from infected areas in Saskatchewan to migrate to lower population density areas (due to culls and hard winters) thus enhancing the chance of CWD continuing to come to Alberta....

CWD aside.... I think Saskatchewan does some things that we should do here in Alberta.

LC

I hadn't thought about the possibility that lower population densities along the border resulting from the culls could actually increase migration of animals, including infected ones, from Sask into Alberta. That's an interesting thought. Thanks for mentioning it.
Actually, if we ever met, I think there's lots you and I would find that we agree on including your final statement in the above post.
Cheers.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by 270WIN

No Hal. Not saying that at all. Alberta could do a pile more and set a good example for the rest of North America by having the balls to kill the game farming industry.
Whether the culls are effective or not in controlling the spread of CWD may never be known for sure, I suppose. But one thing is for sure and that is that the culls would never have taken place if we didn't have CWD and we got that disease from Sask. That's all I was trying to say when I threw my two cents worth in on this one initially.

not sure you are totally right about your presumptions about the disease, just nice to see someone concerned about what that have done to our herd in this area, and others

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I agree, I was just expanding on your post, my question wasn't directed towards you but in reading it could see how it could be taken that way

I also find it hypocritical that we allow game farming to continue here and on the other hand have launched devastating culls across the Eastern border....why don't we fix the identified issue in our own provincial borders first?

Here is another news flash....Saskatchewan doesn't do a cull and we do.....we clear the way for more animals from infected areas in Saskatchewan to migrate to lower population density areas (due to culls and hard winters) thus enhancing the chance of CWD continuing to come to Alberta....

CWD aside.... I think Saskatchewan does some things that we should do here in Alberta.

LC

Care to back that up Lefty, or at least clarify the statement.

Are you saying that SASK. has never done a cull or used hunting as a means to drastically reduce regional deer populations?

Are you saying that Sask. doesn't follow this protocol?
"In areas where CWD exists, the Ministry of Environment manages deer at lower densities in order to reduce the likelihood of transmission between animals."

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Care to back that up Lefty, or at least clarify the statement.

Are you saying that SASK. has never done a cull or used hunting as a means to drastically reduce regional deer populations?

Are you saying that Sask. doesn't follow this protocol?
"In areas where CWD exists, the Ministry of Environment manages deer at lower densities in order to reduce the likelihood of transmission between animals."

I don't think Saskatchewan did a mass cull shooting from aircraft like Alberta did....or I could be wrong.

Additionally I don't think they fund a CWD testing program anymore over there...again I could be wrong.

LC

[elkhunter11]

Saskatchewan does one very significant thing that Alberta does not, Saskatchewan puts their resident hunters before the outfitted non residents.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by JRsMav

Please feel free to site your sources to that theory.

I was at the outfitters conference when Jim Allen Did his presentation on CWD. Call the clown and ask him.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I agree, I was just expanding on your post, my question wasn't directed towards you but in reading it could see how it could be taken that way

I also find it hypocritical that we allow game farming to continue here and on the other hand have launched devastating culls across the Eastern border....why don't we fix the identified issue in our own provincial borders first?

Here is another news flash....Saskatchewan doesn't do a cull and we do.....we clear the way for more animals from infected areas in Saskatchewan to migrate to lower population density areas (due to culls and hard winters) thus enhancing the chance of CWD continuing to come to Alberta....
CWD aside.... I think Saskatchewan does some things that we should do here in Alberta.

LC

This is the truest statement I have read on the internet concerning CWD. This is the one that has blown my mind for a while.

[albertadeer]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Saskatchewan does one very significant thing that Alberta does not, Saskatchewan puts their resident hunters before the outfitted non residents.

Saskatchewan also doesn't have half of Newfoundland in its province shooting everything they can get a tag for + some.....

I'm willing to bet the 2 doe tags for each hunter in each wmu has more impact than the few mature bucks taken in each zone

Pull your head outta the sand and see the light....

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by 270WIN

No Hal. Not saying that at all. Alberta could do a pile more and set a good example for the rest of North America by having the balls to kill the game farming industry.
Whether the culls are effective or not in controlling the spread of CWD may never be known for sure, I suppose. But one thing is for sure and that is that the culls would never have taken place if we didn't have CWD and we got that disease from Sask. That's all I was trying to say when I threw my two cents worth in on this one initially.

Did you know the first case was found in a game farm in alberta? I agree all game farms should be shut down. CWD is not going anywhere and srd needs to relies this and stop the madness. Heck Jim Allen also stated they wanted to lower numbers till a vaccine could be found to cure the problem.

[shedcrazy]

Here is another news flash....Saskatchewan doesn't do a cull and we do.....we clear the way for more animals from infected areas in Saskatchewan to migrate to lower population density areas (due to culls and hard winters) thus enhancing the chance of CWD continuing to come to Alberta....
CWD aside.... I think Saskatchewan does some things that we should do here in Alberta.

Actually they had the "earn a buck program" and a reduced herd program in areas.
There is a history of Sask's CWD program and deer movements.
http://ecommons.usask.ca/bitstream/h...le_Skelton.pdf

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by albertadeer

Saskatchewan also doesn't have half of Newfoundland in its province shooting everything they can get a tag for + some.....

I'm willing to bet the 2 doe tags for each hunter in each wmu has more impact than the few mature bucks taken in each zone

Pull your head outta the sand and see the light....

Saskatchewan doesn't give a person resident status, the day that he assumes a local address as his "supposed" primary residence like Alberta does. They also don't let non residents hunt species like pronghorn, mule deer , and elk. They also don't give out all of the supplemental tags.

[CLB]

I always laugh when I read on this site how saskatchewan is so much better at management, then listen to sask residents complain about how badly Sask Environment manages our wildlife populations. Just goes to show you can never make everyone happy.

[packhuntr]

Outfitters are not the problem in this province, anyone saying that need pull thier heads outa thier rears. Whats next, blaming archers for killing all the mule deer lolol!! Holy moly.
Hey waterfowler, you should tell more about what "the little mad guy" jim had to say... The way i got it, we are looking at complete chaos/devastation on the horizon. Winter culls while wintered up with unlimited tags, lord where to start. Our mules are about to recieve exactly what they apparently deserve in this province,, by an army of blood thirsty card carrying shoot em all afga members. All this oughta make that Doug Butler and the afga pleased as punch. Go get em boys, they are mere vermin that need eradicated.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by CLB

I always laugh when I read on this site how saskatchewan is so much better at management, then listen to sask residents complain about how badly Sask Environment manages our wildlife populations. Just goes to show you can never make everyone happy.

Cam. Dont think ya realize whats been transpiring here. Nor do ya know whats coming. Cant wait for this plan to come to light. We'll see what people have to say then.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by shedcrazy

Actually they had the "earn a buck program" and a reduced herd program in areas.
There is a history of Sask's CWD program and deer movements.
http://ecommons.usask.ca/bitstream/h...le_Skelton.pdf

Thank you for the information! I should have clarified what I meant by cull. In Alberta it was done from the air first, then after criticism it was passed over the hunters as an "opportunity" kill two does (either species), get a buck tag....rinse and repeat. I was wondering if they had a similar program in place at the onset in Saskatchewan. Do you know if in Saskatchewan they used aircraft and dug the mass pits to bury the carcasses?

Currently I don't believe that they still test for CWD in harvested animals in Saskatchewan....

I also found this in the paper:

2.6 Management Implications: CWD and Long Distance Movements 2.6.1 Mule Deer
Surveillance data show that CWD positive mule deer are most often in wildlife management zones adjacent to the S.S. River (CCWHC, unpublished data). Preliminary analyses suggest the probability of harvesting a CWD-positive deer in Saskatchewan increases with terrain ruggedness, proximity to major rivers and distance to roads (Rees et al. 2009). It is generally suspected that the S. S. River basin plays a role in spread of disease westward through Saskatchewan and into the neighboring province of Alberta.

LC

[shedcrazy]

Currently I don't believe that they still test for CWD in harvested animals in Saskatchewan....

I believe the funding was cut in Sask and if you want your animal tested it will cost you around 120$.

[buckbrushoutdoors]

why do we get to play god when it comes to cwd? why is our job to control the spread? isnt that what our extremely high coyote population is for? and throw in a few bad winters and mother nature will always do a much better job "managing" our wildlife than we ever will! why do these bios need the feeling to take matters into there own hands? A thesis that will land them a doctorit? or there name remembered forever as the person who erradicted the mule deer?

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Outfitters are not the problem in this province, anyone saying that need pull thier heads outa thier rears. Whats next, blaming archers for killing all the mule deer lolol!! Holy moly.
Hey waterfowler, you should tell more about what "the little mad guy" jim had to say... The way i got it, we are looking at complete chaos/devastation on the horizon. Winter culls while wintered up with unlimited tags, lord where to start. Our mules are about to recieve exactly what they apparently deserve in this province,, by an army of blood thirsty card carrying shoot em all afga members. All this oughta make that Doug Butler and the afga pleased as punch. Go get em boys, they are mere vermin that need eradicated.

No. no youre quite wrong on that one pack. Outfitters are fairly substantial problem. However I will agree the culling is the largest contributor.

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Outfitters are not the problem in this province, anyone saying that need pull thier heads outa thier rears. Whats next, blaming archers for killing all the mule deer lolol!! Holy moly.
Hey waterfowler, you should tell more about what "the little mad guy" jim had to say... The way i got it, we are looking at complete chaos/devastation on the horizon. Winter culls while wintered up with unlimited tags, lord where to start. Our mules are about to recieve exactly what they apparently deserve in this province,, by an army of blood thirsty card carrying shoot em all afga members. All this oughta make that Doug Butler and the afga pleased as punch. Go get em boys, they are mere vermin that need eradicated.

I'm not sure whether you are just being sarcastic in order to make your point, packhunter, but I sure hope so because what you describe sounds horrible. (This is not a criticism, by the way, as I happen to enjoy sarcasm and indulge in it myself on occasion.)
And yes - if waterfowler knows more about this than what he is saying on here I too would like to know what it is, providing it's factual of course.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Saskatchewan does one very significant thing that Alberta does not, Saskatchewan puts their resident hunters before the outfitted non residents.

This is one thing we need to do....be selective as to what species a nonresident can hunt, similar to our neighbours to the East.

Also change the requirements and definition of what makes someone a resident....these two things are quite influential.

LC

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

This is one thing we need to do....be selective as to what species a nonresident can hunt, similar to our neighbours to the East.

Also change the requirements and definition of what makes someone a resident....these two things are quite influential.

LC

Lefty I think the definition of resident is a double edged sword. I believe a lot of the hesitation to limit who can hunt, and after how long they've been here really in the end comes down to promoting the oilfield workforce. Attract an easterner to do the low level gig, that pays well, and by the way take advantage of everything else. I think if you dug extremely deep you would find that SRD staff have pushed for wait times as far as new resident hunters and a growing population, however im fairly confident the 'powers to be' / big oil boys might have had an issue with said topics. Theres a reason, aside from the high pay jobs, that easterners come here.

[Lefty-Canuck]

My issue is with the folks who come here and then immediately are eligible to hunt and enter draws as a resident....but actually have two households...one that is temporary here for them to stay at when they work and one back home where their family is.

If people want to come here and work and start a life with their family and spend their money here great!

But many come here and keep the benefit of the two provinces they reside, essentially becoming "dual citizens" reaping the "resident" benefits from both provinces....many hunt as residents here AND back in the province from which they came.

You can only really reside in one place at one time, people should be forced to make a choice one way or the other. Not to mention the strain this put on other things that are classified "resident benefits".

LC

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

My issue is with the folks who come here and then immediately are eligible to hunt and enter draws as a resident....but actually have two households...one that is temporary here for them to stay at when they work and one back home where their family is.

If people want to come here and work and start a life with their family and spend their money here great!

But many come here and keep the benefit of the two provinces they reside, essentially becoming "dual citizens" reaping the "resident" benefits from both provinces....many hunt as residents here AND back in the province from which they came.

You can only really reside in one place at one time, people should be forced to make a choice one way or the other. Not to mention the strain this put on other things that are classified "resident benefits".

LC

100% agree lefty! I believe there should be a mandatory 2 year wait to be eligible to draw as a res. hunter as well! But I don't actually think that's going to happen. Same reason the epic outfitter issues will never be truly tackled, as its big $$$ for the province. Frankly the $$$ are much bigger deal than a few hundred guys on an internet forum

[aulrich]

How SRD handles outfitters certainly does not help.
Correct me if I am wrong

- Outfitters get 10% of tags on draws
- Outfitter areas are made up of multiple WMU’s
- The tag allotment is on a 5 year cycle
- The outfitter tags can be used in anywhere in their allotted area.

IIRC
wmu 118 peaked out at about 250 tags so if the 5 year cycle was then the otfitter in that area got 25 tags. The lowest number I saw was 46 I think that was season before last so that year the outfitter would have been effectively taking 1/3 rd of the animals. Probably even more if you take account relative success rates.

The cycle time needs to be down to 3 years and subject to availability.

I would love to see WMU specific tags vs outfitter zone tags but that is probably un enforceable. The very least compulsory reporting of all kills with location information. Worst case is an outfitter will take their whole allotment and blow it in 1 or 2 WMU blowing past the 10% per wmu rule of thumb and putting un due pressure on those zones. But SRD will know of it.

And that 10% should be of a 10 Year average/mean not not the 10% of the tags for the year of renewal. Or if they have the data the entire history of the WMU would be best. There should be reasonable business continuity, I don't begrudge a guy making a living.

[aulrich]

As for residency the year I pay Alberta Tax is the year I am a resident

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by aulrich

As for residency the year I pay Alberta Tax is the year I am a resident

Not so....the moment you have a permanent mailing address is when you are an Alberta resident, no other requirements.

From the regs,

Resident

- a person who either
has his or her only or primary residence in Alberta and
is a Canadian citizen or is admitted to permanent residence in Canada, or
has lived in Canada for the 12-month period immediately preceding the relevant date; or
is on full-time service with the Armed Forces of Canada and would, if an election were held under the Elections Act (Canada), be eligible to vote in Alberta under that Act.

LC

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Not so....the moment you have a permanent mailing address is when you are an Alberta resident, no other requirements.

LC

kind of odd how the guys screaming that outfitters aren't the problem, and bow hunters are getting shafted....are bow hunting outfitters themselves....

AKA - everything that's wrong with people within this community. No sense of responsibility for anything.