Alberta Health system brutal

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by Trochu

And they haven't added on to the existing hospitals, they've stayed exactly the same?

I picked up on the sarcasm, but you're absolute correct. I worked on the UofA campus between 2002 and 2012 in the Medical Science building. There was a ton of AHS related construction during that period. Unfortunately in the WHMC building (UofA hospital) a lot of treatment space was converted to administration space. That being said, there was a lot of health care related construction in the area. Mazinkowski Heart Institue, Kaye Cinic, a new Emergency Clinic, lots of work at the Stollery.

I think that it was in 2008 when AHS was created by combining 12 regional health authorities/AADAC/Mental Health/Alberta Cancer Board etc. Bigger/centralization doesn't always mean better.

To jstubbs point, new hospitals would be another waste of taxpayer dollars if you don't have enough front-line healthcare professionals to fill them. They would become nothing more than a bastion for yet more administration.

I truly believe that the biggest blunder made during the Klein era were the layoffs of full-time front line employees in the healthcare sector, and replacing them with part-time positions. I had a lot of friends that were forced to work out of country for a few years until they could get full time work here, and when they did get a job, they could never get any time off. It didn't take people long to figure out that you could make just as much money working 1/2 time hours when constantly being called in at a premium rate. The employees liked it (except for the full timers) as they made as much money but worked less and could spend more time with their families, who could blame them. The unions liked it (more people required for part time positions making full time wages adds up to more dues going into the coffers), again they're a business, why wouldn't they like more revenue.

Since then the province (no matter what political stripe) has done absolutely nothing trying to reverse course. It's pretty tough to try and recruit the best and brightest when all we hear about is "Canada's Healthcare Crisis", who and the heck would want to jump into an industry with that brand hanging over it. Continuously throwing more taxpayer money at the problem has accomplished nothing other than longer wait times. Unless you are willing and able to travel out of the country for health care, the only thing that you can do is focus on leading as healthy of a lifestyle that you can and pray that you don't need "the system" on a regular basis (that, and hope that the drunks and junkies don't beat you to the ER or dial 911 first for an ambulance).

[Frank_NK28]

I can tell you from personal experience living in other provinces AB & SK are far, far better than the rest. I have very few complaints with our healthcare system in AB. I have been well taken care of when required and living in Lloyd I get the best of both have to offer.

[oilngas]

Alberta Health Care budget is in the neighborhood of $24,500,000,000 or about 1/3 of the total budget, or $5,000 per person (5mm souls on board).

The system itself is obviously flawed. But how do you get a handle on that large of an Organization?

You would need to incorporate the existing sorta user pay system private health care of Blue Cross, private cash for service Health Business, Contractors (Blood testing change is working just ducky eh!), ambulances, Fire Emergency responders, etc.

So i think instead of coming forth with problems, solutions to our MLA's may be a good start. It seems to me lots of sacred cows need to be slaughtered.

How about a Dash 7 or 8 to Montana every day, folks down for knees etc. and the return flight for repaired folks? At least until folks are caught up!

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Chat with a nurse or doc at emerg. Lots of drug addicts filling hospitals these days.

I believe that is what I said?

[sewerrat]

[QUOTE
Chat with a nurse or doc at emerg. Lots of drug addicts filling hospitals these days.[/QUOTE]

I can vouch for that,I was in the Red Deer emergency room 2 years ago with heart issues, all I could hear is the yelling and screaming of these overdosed druggies.
If I were the emergency room nurse I would run, I couldn’t handle being spit at, yelled at and punched at.

I’m sure these druggies are in the ER on a weekly basis!

[Grizzly Adams1]

The system itself is obviously flawed. But how do you get a handle on that large of an Organization?

Cut the top heavy administration and put the self serving unions in their place. I hear Safeway employees bitching they can't afford to shop there. Sorry, neither can I .

Grizz

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Should see the interprovincial bidding war for recruitment. She can show ya the numbers.

We’re at the point where money isn’t enough. People want a better work life balance, especially post Covid with all the insane workloads, mandatory OT, cancelled time off, and political attacks. BC just legislated nurse to patient ratios. I expect a concurrent “bidding war” regarding working conditions. Alberta will be on the losing end of both. It ain’t getting better any time soon.

I've got a niece that quit her job in Edmonton and is now contracting out to Northern Alberta hospitals at a $120/Hr through a private agency. That's not OT, that's base wage. I'd love to know how much the agency is getting paid.
Robbing Peter to pay Paul doesn't sound like a great long term solution.

[DiabeticKripple]

Should be charged $50 to go to the ER for something that isn’t an emergency.

Going there to see a doc for a cold or strep throat shouldn’t be allowed. Go find a walk in clinic or see a prescribing pharmacist.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Should be charged $50 to go to the ER for something that isn’t an emergency.

Going there to see a doc for a cold or strep throat shouldn’t be allowed. Go find a walk in clinic or see a prescribing pharmacist.

All useless visits should be charged $50, be it walk in or ER. Might help some of the abuse

[Jim]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

All useless visits should be charged $50, be it walk in or ER. Might help some of the abuse

I would take it further than that, anyone going to ER is charged $500 that way the people with money can move to the front of the line. People willing to pay $1000 get some kind of express VIP status and are given even more priority.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

All useless visits should be charged $50, be it walk in or ER. Might help some of the abuse

Almost certainly would. The uproar would be deafening though, "Pay for healthcare" the sky is falling!

[Mavrick]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Should be charged $50 to go to the ER for something that isn’t an emergency.

Going there to see a doc for a cold or strep throat shouldn’t be allowed. Go find a walk in clinic or see a prescribing pharmacist.

I agree, kids under 12 should be no charge. And a chest pain is a chest pain, common senses is also needed at times.

Also people should use the Med hot line, they are pretty good at telling you when you should go in.

[AI 6.5]

Originally Posted by Scott N

Canadians have been duped into believing how great our "free" healthcare system is, to the point that any discussion of privatizing / partially privatizing healthcare is sacrilegious. Unless it's changed recently, and one would assume that would be for the worse, Canada ranks #30 on the World Health Organization's list of health care systems. #30. You'd think that there would be some room for improvement, but Canadians are oblivious to the fact that our system is unsustainable, and health care services are already rationed. Importing a million new citizens every year is not going to help that, unless most of them are doctors and nurses. I would expect things to continue to decline, based on the financial geniuses that run the country / voters that continue to support said geniuses, for the foreseeable future.

I hope the original poster's mother received the help that she needed. The system does indeed suck, but this is not just an Alberta thing, it is a Canada wide issue.

Well said.

[AI 6.5]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

All useless visits should be charged $50, be it walk in or ER. Might help some of the abuse

People are already blaming the province now, could you imagine how much crying all the dippers and liberals would be doing if that happened. Compared to other parts of the country, we are much better off. Again as already said, this is a problem, country wide.

[skidderman]

Am sorry about the op's situation. I personally have for the most part seen the opposite. Due to a severe kidney problem I was hospitalized twice for a total of 12 days at the U of A. Had kidney infection 2nd time. Have been to emerg three times with complication's. I could not have asked for better of any of the staff. Blaming Klein is getting a bit old. Seems to me the NDP had four yrs to fix all of the problems. They did nothing like they usually do. Anyone that thinks there is an easy fix is in a fantasy world. We need private hospitals to take the pressure off but due to stubborn people it will never happen. Add a few hundred thousand immigrants, a drug problem that is out of control and we have a big problem. The ambulance people said we have no idea how many times they have to pick up the same drunkard. As well as for many who use the ambulance system as a taxi. In my 12 days in hospital I had 6 different people in my room. One of the six spoke English.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by skidderman

Am sorry about the op's situation. I personally have for the most part seen the opposite. Due to a severe kidney problem I was hospitalized twice for a total of 12 days at the U of A. Had kidney infection 2nd time. Have been to emerg three times with complication's. I could not have asked for better of any of the staff. Blaming Klein is getting a bit old. Seems to me the NDP had four yrs to fix all of the problems. They did nothing like they usually do. Anyone that thinks there is an easy fix is in a fantasy world. We need private hospitals to take the pressure off but due to stubborn people it will never happen. Add a few hundred thousand immigrants, a drug problem that is out of control and we have a big problem. The ambulance people said we have no idea how many times they have to pick up the same drunkard. As well as for many who use the ambulance system as a taxi. In my 12 days in hospital I had 6 different people in my room. One of the six spoke English.

We do need private hospitals and a 50.00 deductible to see a doctor to start.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

Yup, similar stories from all over the country.

Grizz

Yup.

Hope all goes well for those needing medical assistance.

I personally feel that when our country tosses money out to other countries etc without taking care of our country there are huge issues starting and ending with our PM.

Then again when a province is giving fed money towards health care where does it go? All in or partially into the health care system?

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by lannie

We do need private hospitals and a 50.00 deductible to see a doctor to start.

Why should one citizen be charged $50 and another not?

[Rdamours]

Once you start treating healthcare as a business that big number getting quoted for yearly costs comes straight to you. If it’s for profit expect the number to go up like your utilities. Off the governments books so where are your tax dollars going. Do you really think that they will cut taxes. They will just find new ways to line their pockets with your tax dollars. At least you know where your money is going

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/06/22/...0-or-more.html

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Rdamours

Once you start treating healthcare as a business that big number getting quoted for yearly costs comes straight to you.

Once you stop treating it like a business though you end up with what we have now, essentially where no amount of money will fix it. I feel there is a very happy medium we could quite easily achieve, but everybody fights it.

[britman101]

I agree there has to be a way to keep track of where money is being spent. For instance, not picking on nurses but the average Registered Nurse can expect to make a yearly salary of between $ 90, 000 to $ 120, 000. However, it has been reported that in 2022 Alberta Health Services paid 6 nurses more than $ 300, 000. And one nurse earned in excess of $ 510, 000. Sorry to say but when you start seeing figures like that the system is out of control.

[densa44]

Alberta is blessed with 2 fine medical schools, and schools for nurses and all the other health professions. There are many qualified Canadians lined up to enter these programs. The government under Mr. Klien, found that it was Doctors who were driving costs, the ordered tests, admitted patients and billed the Gov't . Ergo cut the number of doctors, blow up a pesky hospital and its board, and voila! you have cut costs. It would have made more sense to try to cure some diseases but that's what we now have. Do you think more police will make the LRT safer, or a more robust mental health system to handle the criminally insane?
There is a consultant's report that is now hard to find on line done by Earnst and Young for $2 million. I'd post the link if I was better at this system. It is called Alberta Health Services Performance Review. It is 200 pages and is fascinating reading, for example Alberta has 106 hospitals and only 17 of them are any good.
I hope that everyone who needs care gets it in a timely manner. In a democracy we get the government that we deserve!

[sns2]

Originally Posted by britman101

I agree there has to be a way to keep track of where money is being spent. For instance, not picking on nurses but the average Registered Nurse can expect to make a yearly salary of between $ 90, 000 to $ 120, 000. However, it has been reported that in 2022 Alberta Health Services paid 6 nurses more than $ 300, 000. And one nurse earned in excess of $ 510, 000. Sorry to say but when you start seeing figures like that the system is out of control.

I’d love a link to this… ^^^

The 300 and 500k seems pretty high.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

Why should one citizen be charged $50 and another not?

Sorry if it was not clear to you. Every person should pay the first 50.00.

[Big Sky]

Originally Posted by sns2

I’d love a link to this… ^^^

The 300 and 500k seems pretty high.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...high-1.6900641

We need more nurses. Period.
Same thing goes for doctors.

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by sns2

I’d love a link to this… ^^^

The 300 and 500k seems pretty high.

Here is the likely source for the CBC story Big Sky linked, direct from AHS:

https://www.albertahealthservices.ca...page13093.aspx

Lots of scrolling, recommend you use a computer screen, not your phone. This is public information, and needs to be considered within the context of level of responsibility/position, hours worked, travel to remote locations, etc.

[The Cook]

Phoned the local clinic at 9am got an appointment for 1pm then made my way to the hospital for blood work and x-ray, home by 2:30pm. Say what you will but Alberta has good medical services. Not to mention Tom Baker Cancer Centre where we were blown away by the professional, compassionate staff during the covid fiasco.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...high-1.6900641

We need more nurses. Period.
Same thing goes for doctors.

Yes we do, we also need AHS to be far more efficient. Nurses are taking real advantage of their contract agreements. It is very hard to get on full time and getting less and less desirable to do so. Nurses that are part time fillers can pretty much pick their own hours and get tons of overtime. Anytime a sweet deal is reached you can be sure people will take advantage, just human nature. Somehow everyone should be fired, rehired on merit, and a new fair for everyone agreement put forth. All surgeries should be done by private clinics paid for by the government. A deal for quick service for more money could be brought forth with limits set. Say for instance for every ten surgeries for the government you get one queue jumper for cash. The numbers could be negotiated.

The trouble with cuts is that it is usually middle management that decides who gets cut. Well guess which group never gets cut... middle management. In my mind most of the fat is in middle management empire builders. Happens in every public service. Big problem for the federal government.

In effect nurses have become another level of middle management, they spend most of their time filling out charts, or as I call it butt covering. I watched a good friend die of cancer, his care was abysmal.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Yes we do, we also need AHS to be far more efficient. Nurses are taking real advantage of their contract agreements. It is very hard to get on full time and getting less and less desirable to do so. Nurses that are part time fillers can pretty much pick their own hours and get tons of overtime. Anytime a sweet deal is reached you can be sure people will take advantage, just human nature. Somehow everyone should be fired, rehired on merit, and a new fair for everyone agreement put forth. All surgeries should be done by private clinics paid for by the government. A deal for quick service for more money could be brought forth with limits set. Say for instance for every ten surgeries for the government you get one queue jumper for cash. The numbers could be negotiated.

The trouble with cuts is that it is usually middle management that decides who gets cut. Well guess which group never gets cut... middle management. In my mind most of the fat is in middle management empire builders. Happens in every public service. Big problem for the federal government.

In effect nurses have become another level of middle management, they spend most of their time filling out charts, or as I call it butt covering. I watched a good friend die of cancer, his care was abysmal.

Actually the casuals Or part time fillers as you call them in healthcare are very valuable. Theses people are what keeps the system running when there is injury, sickness, any emergency or when people just don’t show. There are many who work beyond full time hours doing so. This is also how many go to school to upgrade their training to further their career in healthcare

Right now the system is short handed causing many full time healthcare workers to get mandated to work overtime and theses casual workers help lessen the workload. My wife has a full time position and has been working double shifts for the last 3 days because they don’t have enough coverage.

The system has issues for sure but the use of casuals combined with full time positions is not a problem. It would likely create a major mess removing casuals from the system

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by densa44

Alberta is blessed with 2 fine medical schools, and schools for nurses and all the other health professions. There are many qualified Canadians lined up to enter these programs. The government under Mr. Klien, found that it was Doctors who were driving costs, the ordered tests, admitted patients and billed the Gov't . Ergo cut the number of doctors, blow up a pesky hospital and its board, and voila! you have cut costs. It would have made more sense to try to cure some diseases but that's what we now have. Do you think more police will make the LRT safer, or a more robust mental health system to handle the criminally insane?
There is a consultant's report that is now hard to find on line done by Earnst and Young for $2 million. I'd post the link if I was better at this system. It is called Alberta Health Services Performance Review. It is 200 pages and is fascinating reading, for example Alberta has 106 hospitals and only 17 of them are any good.
I hope that everyone who needs care gets it in a timely manner. In a democracy we get the government that we deserve!

A shirt tale relative from Ontario attended the U of C med school, got his degree, interned and was on the next plane back home.
A seat at the provincial med school should come with a commitment to work in the province for a set term. Want to be a doc or a dentist ? The military will pay your tuition, but you will owe them 5 years of your life when you're done.

Story from tonight's news.

https://globalnews.ca/news/9823896/a...sive-overtime/



Grizz