Will Alberta have enough water for the future ?

[W921]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Talked to relative in North the other day that stated Peace River is extremely low last few years. Just for record the Peace river 'under normal conditions' flows more water that All the other rivers in Alberta combined.

Could peace river be harnessed to pump some of its own water to southern part of province? Example hydro dam or build a nuclear station and use water to cool reactor. Use nuclear power to pump the water south?
All that fresh water of the peace river just currently goes into artic basically wasted. North of peace river town not really anything there.

[I’d rather be outdoors]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

The sky is most certainly falling.

Indeed, these “crisis’s” are getting old. All an excuse for increases in taxes.

What we really have is an overtaxation crisis.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by W921

Could peace river be harnessed to pump some of its own water to southern part of province? Example hydro dam or build a nuclear station and use water to cool reactor. Use nuclear power to pump the water south?
All that fresh water of the peace river just currently goes into artic basically wasted. North of peace river town not really anything there.

Be careful what you wish for. Peace River water flow in Alberta is determined by the W C Bennet dam in BC, as it is now.

https://environment.probeinternation...%20of%20Mexico.

[Desert Eagle]

There are some really interesting rules with water diversion. If the peace flows to the arctic, you are not allowed to move that water to a different watershed that flows to a different location.

For example North Sask and Pembina rivers are not allowed to flow into one another for this reason. It’s pretty cool when you look at how close they are in one area in particular, but even in emergency situations, it’s a no go.

[Bigrib]

Originally Posted by W921

All that fresh water of the peace river just currently goes into artic basically wasted. North of peace river town not really anything there.

....basically wasted ? The roughly 17,000 people who live there might disagree . Many are farmers along with the waterfowl , moose and other animals that rely on the river to live .

People need to treat water with respect and if anything on earth is sacred it is water ... just try living without it

[W921]

Originally Posted by Bigrib

....basically wasted ? The roughly 17,000 people who live there might disagree . Many are farmers along with the waterfowl , moose and other animals that rely on the river to live .

People need to treat water with respect and if anything on earth is sacred it is water ... just try living without it

North of peace river town along the river it goes north to artic ocean. Have people built houses and communities a long side of the river? Not that long ago it was all bush.
I'm remembering a story about German tourist who put their kayaks in peace river town 40 ish years ago. They were going to float upstream and stop on villages and buy their meals,etc. Think it was a hunter in jet boat that eventually found them.

[W921]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

Be careful what you wish for. Peace River water flow in Alberta is determined by the W C Bennet dam in BC, as it is now.

https://environment.probeinternation...%20of%20Mexico.

Seems like all projects have to be about selling to united states or diverting water to big shots. What an awful thing if regular Albertans bennifited from a Alberta water project.

[trailraat]

Originally Posted by W921

Could peace river be harnessed to pump some of its own water to southern part of province? Example hydro dam or build a nuclear station and use water to cool reactor. Use nuclear power to pump the water south?
All that fresh water of the peace river just currently goes into artic basically wasted. North of peace river town not really anything there.

I get that people want to solve water problems with engineering - however you only have to look at the disaster that is the Colorado River Basin to see how short sighted these plans can be. We build up extra capacity and then assume that it will always be there overbuild and over allocate and eventually it becomes a serious problem.

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by W921

Could peace river be harnessed to pump some of its own water to southern part of province? Example hydro dam or build a nuclear station and use water to cool reactor. Use nuclear power to pump the water south?

Didn't you read the memo?
Besides the water diversion issue already stated, only BC has the social license to do anything with the Peace River. The Federal Government has made that abundantly clear on previous project submissions from Alberta; dams, hydro generation, and nuclear power generation have all been vetoed.
Yes, there were other factors at play (cost, community pushback, etc.) that would have impacted the projects, but none ever got off the ground due to lack of Federal approval.

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

The best way to preserve our water supply is to store it in a location where it does not evaporate away. Only solution is enhanced ground water storage and recharge of existing aquifers.

Alot of the Southern Reservoirs have large surface areas that simply evaporate away a big volume of water each and every day that temperatures are in the mid 20s - 30s C.

But that forward thinking would mean exploring where the recharge areas for aquifers are, or enhancing recharge to ground water storage.

This idea may be too easy to be appreciated. Lets see what the big brains in Government decide.

Drewski

Those reservoirs are starting off at less than 30% of normal capacity this spring, so this is not a problem reducing evaporation is going to solve.

Interesting that McCain decided to double the size of their potato processing plant in Coaldale in 2023, seeing how potatoes are a very water intensive crop, requiring 10X the water per acre the regions' natural grains do. I wonder how much increased water consumption can be attributed to huge industrial agricultural operations such as McCains?

[Looper]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

Those reservoirs are starting off at less than 30% of normal capacity this spring, so this is not a problem reducing evaporation is going to solve.

Interesting that McCain decided to double the size of their potato processing plant in Coaldale in 2023, seeing how potatoes are a very water intensive crop, requiring 10X the water per acre the regions' natural grains do. I wonder how much increased water consumption can be attributed to huge industrial agricultural operations such as McCains?

What are you talking about?

McCains is a processor its not an agricultural operation.

Newell is full.

Rolling Hills reservoir is full.

Macgregor is full

Travers is 70%

https://rivers.alberta.ca/forecastin...es_storage.pdf

Looper

[Drewski Canuck]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

Those reservoirs are starting off at less than 30% of normal capacity this spring, so this is not a problem reducing evaporation is going to solve.

Interesting that McCain decided to double the size of their potato processing plant in Coaldale in 2023, seeing how potatoes are a very water intensive crop, requiring 10X the water per acre the regions' natural grains do. I wonder how much increased water consumption can be attributed to huge industrial agricultural operations such as McCains?

Reservoirs Starting off at 30 % is the result of last year being hot and windy with little rain. Now lets imagine if the water in those reservoirs from last Spring's run off had not been evaporating all the way into November. The evaporation problem was all of last year, resulting in the 30 % this year.

That is what an aquifer does for you. That is why these aquifers are better in the long term for water preservation. That is why you need to do recharge wells to pump water down underground when there is a surplus above ground. Then you can pump it out when it is needed like this year.

However, Mother Nature threw a curve ball at all the Climate Change Shreekers in the last month. The reservoirs are now filling back up.

That last round of heavy wet snow in Southern Alberta has left a considerable water source in the mountains for this summer.

But we should look at the alternative of underground storage in any event. It will provide stability for water supply in Southern Alberta as long hot years means alot of evaporation of these reservoirs.



Drewski

[ron anderson]

"Natural Grains" ...

[W921]

Originally Posted by trailraat

I get that people want to solve water problems with engineering - however you only have to look at the disaster that is the Colorado River Basin to see how short sighted these plans can be. We build up extra capacity and then assume that it will always be there overbuild and over allocate and eventually it becomes a serious problem.

In southern Alberta we are over stocked with people and more and more coming mean less and less water for agriculture. Or more expensive water for agriculture which will just screw the little guy. Death by a thousand cuts and hutterite and rich bastards will own everything.
I don't believe any big water projects will ever get done. These small towns will keep issuing building permits and outsiders keep flocking here. Maybe we can be like Taiwan.
Only good thing about NDP was they wrecked everything so much people quit moving here.
Al places I used to hunt are closed and wrecked now. Imagine if population doubles.

[I’d rather be outdoors]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

However, Mother Nature threw a curve ball at all the Climate Change Shreekers in the last month. The reservoirs are now filling back up.

Drewski

They really don’t know when to quit either. It’s over & they don’t know how to back down from “the sky is falling” it’s “a reckoning”. Give it a break. They’re pushing for symbolic water restrictions at this point as a sacrifice to the alter of “climate change”. There’s no credibility when everything is a “crisis”.

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by Looper

What are you talking about?

McCains is a processor its not an agricultural operation.

Newell is full.

Rolling Hills reservoir is full.

Macgregor is full

Travers is 70%

https://rivers.alberta.ca/forecastin...es_storage.pdf

Looper

Try to connect the dots, when McCain opens a processing plant in Southern AB. farmers grow potatoes to supply it. When they double the capacity of the existing plant, what do you think happens?

[Looper]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

Try to connect the dots, when McCain opens a processing plant in Southern AB. farmers grow potatoes to supply it. When they double the capacity of the existing plant, what do you think happens?

Ok I will try and connect the dots.

McCain expands....acres goes up. More water gets used on potato acres.

Reservoirs were built to retain run off water and irrigate with it during summer other wise agriculture would be nearly impossible in Southern Alberta.

Reservoirs weren't built for your wake boat fun on weekends.

Population will continue to increase therefore more water will need to be retained and those projects are being studied.

Potatoes are food. You want people to eat don't you?

Do you eat sugar? Or bread? Or pasta? C'mon connect the dots

You stated Southern reservoirs started the year at 30% capacity and that's simply not true.

Looper

[W921]

Originally Posted by Looper

Ok I will try and connect the dots.

McCain expands....acres goes up. More water gets used on potato acres.

Reservoirs were built to retain run off water and irrigate with it during summer other wise agriculture would be nearly impossible in Southern Alberta.

Reservoirs weren't built for your wake boat fun on weekends.

Population will continue to increase therefore more water will need to be retained and those projects are being studied.

Potatoes are food. You want people to eat don't you?

Do you eat sugar? Or bread? Or pasta? C'mon connect the dots

You stated Southern reservoirs started the year at 30% capacity and that's simply not true.

Looper

I'm not a farmer but I think farmers contract to grow so many potatoes for McCain's.
I'm not really a fan of potato farming but irrigation and a big diverse ag industry compliments itself.
Agriculture is the one stable industry we have on Alberta.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Do you eat sugar?

Approximately 92% is refined from raw cane sugar imported in bulk to cane sugar refining operations in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal. The balance is refined beet sugar processed from domestically grown sugar beets in Alberta.

Potatoes go to two chip plants as well. It would seem we're big on unhealthy snack foods.

https://lethbridgenewsnow.com/2017/0...erta-products/

[Drewski Canuck]

So if Southern Alberta has an increase in population requiring water, and if there is increased demand for water for agriculture, and if there is cyclical drought events impacting water storage, and if reservoirs have to flow water into the South Saskatchewan River to Saskatchewan,

doesn't it make sense to research underground aquifer water storage so that we can avoid water lost from evaporation in expansive reservoirs, as well as long term storage for use in dry periods?

Sort of answers all the questions for future water supply, right?

Drewski

[Looper]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

Do you eat sugar?

Approximately 92% is refined from raw cane sugar imported in bulk to cane sugar refining operations in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal. The balance is refined beet sugar processed from domestically grown sugar beets in Alberta.

Potatoes go to two chip plants as well. It would seem we're big on unhealthy snack foods.

https://lethbridgenewsnow.com/2017/0...erta-products/

I do not eat sugar no. At least not in refined form.

I am quite familiar with beet and potato production as I used to sell crop inputs in Taber.

Interesting fact- an entire Canadian potato crop for a year is enough to supply the USA with french fries for 11 days.

Looper

[Looper]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

So if Southern Alberta has an increase in population requiring water, and if there is increased demand for water for agriculture, and if there is cyclical drought events impacting water storage, and if reservoirs have to flow water into the South Saskatchewan River to Saskatchewan,

doesn't it make sense to research underground aquifer water storage so that we can avoid water lost from evaporation in expansive reservoirs, as well as long term storage for use in dry periods?

Sort of answers all the questions for future water supply, right?

Drewski

You could be right.

The Palm Springs Golf and Country club irrigates the entire course from an aquifer in the desert. They can pump 900 gal/min, according to the caretaker, and what's not used/evaporates flows back down to the aquifer.

Looper

[I’d rather be outdoors]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

So if Southern Alberta has an increase in population requiring water, and if there is increased demand for water for agriculture, and if there is cyclical drought events impacting water storage, and if reservoirs have to flow water into the South Saskatchewan River to Saskatchewan,

doesn't it make sense to research underground aquifer water storage so that we can avoid water lost from evaporation in expansive reservoirs, as well as long term storage for use in dry periods?

Sort of answers all the questions for future water supply, right?

Drewski

Where’s a geologist when you need one? While I support the idea of new above ground reservoirs (from a new fishing opportunity perspective :-) this could be another feasible approach.

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by Looper

Ok I will try and connect the dots.

McCain expands....acres goes up. More water gets used on potato acres.

Reservoirs were built to retain run off water and irrigate with it during summer other wise agriculture would be nearly impossible in Southern Alberta.

Reservoirs weren't built for your wake boat fun on weekends.

Population will continue to increase therefore more water will need to be retained and those projects are being studied.

Potatoes are food. You want people to eat don't you?

Do you eat sugar? Or bread? Or pasta? C'mon connect the dots

You stated Southern reservoirs started the year at 30% capacity and that's simply not true.

Looper

Certainly was true a month or two ago, may or may not be now depending on recent precipitation, but according to the Govt. of AB. page severe drought conditions continue.

Reservoir Levels as of May 2

Water levels in some southern Alberta reservoirs owned and operated by the Alberta government are well below normal for this time of year.

Oldman Reservoir – Current storage is 40%. Normal for this time of year is between 63% and 85%.

St. Mary Reservoir - Current storage is 52%. Normal for this time of year is between 60% and 80%.

Pine Coulee Reservoir - Current storage is 37%. Normal for this time of year is between 74% and 84%.

Waterton Reservoir - Current storage is 46%. Normal for this time of year is between 58% and 72%.

Gleniffer Reservoir (Dickson Dam) - Current storage is 50%. Normal for this time of year is between 48% and 63%.

https://www.alberta.ca/drought-curre...ns#jumplinks-0

[roper1]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

So if Southern Alberta has an increase in population requiring water, and if there is increased demand for water for agriculture, and if there is cyclical drought events impacting water storage, and if reservoirs have to flow water into the South Saskatchewan River to Saskatchewan,

doesn't it make sense to research underground aquifer water storage so that we can avoid water lost from evaporation in expansive reservoirs, as well as long term storage for use in dry periods?

Sort of answers all the questions for future water supply, right?

Drewski

Not sure on the underground storage, but certainly foam & nylon liners for above ground reservoirs are available today to stop evaporation. Saying that, just build deeper & evaporation isn't your big loss.

[yoteblaster]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

Those reservoirs are starting off at less than 30% of normal capacity this spring, so this is not a problem reducing evaporation is going to solve.

Interesting that McCain decided to double the size of their potato processing plant in Coaldale in 2023, seeing how potatoes are a very water intensive crop, requiring 10X the water per acre the regions' natural grains do. I wonder how much increased water consumption can be attributed to huge industrial agricultural operations such as McCains?

10x the water per acre than natural grains. What a load of bunk. Yes I grow potatoes and grain. Used to farm in Taber area but now growing dry land potatoes and grain in Lacombe area. I know a lot about growing irrigated and dry land crops. What are natural grains by the way?

[W921]

Stavely sits on a large aquifer. Few years ago they put whole town on water meters. Why?
They are on huge aquifer but dont really know how much is there. Towns infrastructure was all built and paid for years ago. Stavely is the one little town in the south that actually has water but now they all have new water meters and higher bills because of the drought.
Ive never been in small town politics but I had a friend who was. She made out sound like government experts are telling elected council what they can do and council not really calling the shots.

[Grizzly Adams1]

experts are telling elected council what they can do and council not really calling the shots.

Councilors just do as they're told.

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by yoteblaster

10x the water per acre than natural grains. What a load of bunk. Yes I grow potatoes and grain. Used to farm in Taber area but now growing dry land potatoes and grain in Lacombe area. I know a lot about growing irrigated and dry land crops. What are natural grains by the way?

Good thing someone picked up on this.

[Sundancefisher]

https://engaging-data.com/ca-reservoir-dashboard/

Couple years ago California had no water. Now they are good.



Reason… climates changes. To bad to worse to average and repeat.

La Niña will bring cooler and wetter weather to Alberta.

El Niño brought warmer and drier weather.

As the article mentioned… periods of poor precipitation has happened in the past.

That said it’s not unwise to conserve the water and not waste it. Waste also needs discussion. From sustainable agriculture and industry to reasonable residential and business use.