Calgary River Ban

[Deb]

I understand BlackHeart's point of view, but shouldn't the health, safety and lives of the folks who have the arduous task of rescue and recovery also be considered?

http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...209/story.html

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Deb

I understand BlackHeart's point of view, but shouldn't the health, safety and lives of the folks who have the arduous task of rescue and recovery also be considered?

http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...209/story.html

Yup/agree

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by Deb

[LEFT]I understand BlackHeart's point of view, but shouldn't the health, safety and lives of the folks who have the arduous task of rescue and recovery also be considered?

Not sure I can respond with the right words concepts...but I will try.

Your comment is sort of like having all your fireman afraid of fires.

Training, equipment, practice, knowledge of techniques, and THAT IS THEIR JOB, is what I am thinking of.

Risk is inherent in anything we do.....even icefishing or laying in the sun.

If we all stayed safe, their would be no need for them and the training....pretty boring being a fireman paid to play floor hockey only.

[chubbdarter]

I believe all emergency personel are trained to respond to Accidents and minimize loss the best they can.
I also believe its not anyones job to risk their lives for fooktards . If your warned not to do something and still do it....is it still a accident?

just my opinion

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

I believe all emergency personel are trained to respond to Accidents and minimize loss the best they can.
I also believe its not anyones job to risk their lives for fooktards . If your warned not to do something and still do it....is it still a accident?

just my opinion

no it's not an accident it's an ASSident

[FishingMOM]

The city is reminding people that all waterways are closed. Including the resevoir.

Body of female found in the glenmore.

[Toirtis]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

The city is reminding people that all waterways are closed. Including the resevoir.

Body of female found in the glenmore.

Combine that with rain forecast for the next 3-5 days, and I do not see the ban being lifted any time before the 12th.

[shorty_j]

While I might not have worded it the same way, Blackheart makes a lot of good points. I understand that the rivers are dangerous right now, if you don't know what you're doing, but I don't think the city knows enough about me and my river skills to know that I can't handle myself on the cities rivers.

Some people actually want the rivers to run high and that's exactly when they want to be on those rivers, and I don't understand where the city gets off telling them they can't do this. They are reacting to the actions of some people without enough knowledge to keep themselves safe in and around the rivers and painting all of with the same brush of assumptions. If they were truly interested in education about safety, for the same amount of money and effort they could be providing information about the state of the rivers (possibly along with a mention that the rivers are too dangerous for them to conduct rescue efforts) rather than banning all river travel and fining people for "violating" that ban.

I respect the Calgary Fire Department (I have two friends on the force), but I feel like this ban is an over-reaction, and blanket reactions like this don't serve the citizens of Calgary the way the FD thinks it should. For instance, the Elbow is still much higher than normal right now, but it is WELL below what it was last week. And even more informative, the levels on the Bow are actually within normal variation of water levels. Fish Creek is also back down to normal range.

http://environment.alberta.ca/apps/b...ionID=RELBGLEN
http://environment.alberta.ca/apps/b...ionID=RBOWCALG
http://environment.alberta.ca/apps/b...ionID=RFISHPRI

A blanket ban on all rivers seems to be not very well thought out, and a potentially negative side-effect of this is that anyone who is interested in travelling on these rivers can deduce this information for themselves just by looking at the river, and that person may not heed warnings in the future in situations that are possibly more dangerous.

It is my opinion that bans like this, which are becoming more common in Alberta (for example, liquor bans at campgrounds on long weekends), are a concerning trend regarding our personal freedoms. There is an alarming pattern of people telling me what I can't do before I've even demonstrated that I will cause a problem, and if this pattern continues I will become more concerned about what kind of restrictions on my choices will be made by people other than me. I'm all for safety and education, but it doesn't have to go this far.

I also looked into the bylaw under which the FD is allowed to make this ban, and I had it emailed to me in pdf format. I don't have an internet link to post, but if anyone is interested in reading it, pm me and I will gladly email it to you.

[Urban Nightmare]

I agree with you for the most part. I like camping. I enjoy a single (one not a dozen) beer while grilling the steaks while camping. The problem is that to many people have gotten them selves in to trouble either drinking to much or going out on the river where they don't have the experience. There is not a test out there to know who is qualified and who isn't. And yes you usually can only get the experience by doing, I understand that. What it comes down to is the police and FD don't want to risk their lives for someone else's stupidity. We as a society don't have the will to just say "Your on your own." and let them kill them selves (Won't someone please think of the children). We live in a nanny state. Even the USA is moving this direction whether they like it or not. The "You can't do that" people are louder then the "Its my right" people. The politicians are only doing what we tell them to and once a law is on the books it's almost impossible to take it off. Especially if the general consensus is that it "works".

[shorty_j]

Originally Posted by Urban Nightmare

...There is not a test out there to know who is qualified and who isn't. And yes you usually can only get the experience by doing, I understand that. What it comes down to is the police and FD don't want to risk their lives for someone else's stupidity. We as a society don't have the will to just say "Your on your own." and let them kill them selves (Won't someone please think of the children)...

True, but the same justification is not used to tell people they are not allowed to drive on city streets in a really bad snowstorm... just education and a recommendation. I'm sure car accidents in bad weather cause more physical casualties, financial cost, and burden on emergency responders.

I understand what you are trying to say, though.

--------------

On another note, I actually called the Calgary FD and ended up speaking to their public relations guy and had a nice long chat. Basically there are levels at which the Bow and Elbow get closed (270 cms for the Bow, and 60 cms for the Elbow). They didn't re-open them because they're expecting more rain.

I think the ban loses credibility when the don't react to their own guidelines because of what "might" happen next week, and they would be better off removing and applying the ban more frequently as conditions change. I mentioned that to the FD on the phone. He was receptive to some of my points but I'm not sure if anything will come of it.

[Urban Nightmare]

Originally Posted by shorty_j

True, but the same justification is not used to tell people they are not allowed to drive on city streets in a really bad snowstorm... just education and a recommendation. I'm sure car accidents in bad weather cause more physical casualties, financial cost, and burden on emergency responders.

I understand what you are trying to say, though.

Give it a bit more time. The biggest reason they haven't yet is because they can't shut down commerce. The oil still needs pumping. An I dare you to tell any of the executives at the major companies down town (in any city) that they have to take public transit! Speaking of which. There isn't enough buses and trains to move that many people when a snow/rain/ice storm is happening. Those are the days I tell my boss I'm working from home, then roll over and get another couple of hours

[GaryF]

For those of you that are educated in river safety and have common sense, yes the ban is an intrusion on your rights. But for Joe Q stupid public, which makes up about 98% of the population, its needed. I work in construction and did a project for shell canada last year upgrading thier gas stations for an energy saving project. Big signs and lots of red danger tape, and ppl would still ignore it all and just walk into danger. I didn't realize how blatently stupid humans are until I did that work. The ban isn't there to trampel on your rights, but to keep the other 98% of ppl, hopefully, away from danger.

[southernman]

I used to do a lot of whitewater kayaking, got to be very good at it, ran rivers and waterfalls and flooded rivers few others would. When I started out I had very little respect for the power of water in its relentless persuit for the sea. That quickley changed.
Do you realise that a skilled kayaker can run white water no other craft can, including rescue and jet boats.
I ended up working as kayak rescue for several rafting companys. that was an eye opener,
I feel that the nanny state keeping everyone safe, will in the long run bring about more and more idiots, more rescues as fewer people will be able to take a caulated risk.
If kids don't learn the pain from the small mistakes (ie climbing up the slide and Falling of bashing face, falling out of a tree cause it wasn't strong enough, They are removing trees and playgrounds from some schools now.) How in the heck will they know what is risky when they start driving, climbing, river and lake outdoor activies.

[shorty_j]

Originally Posted by southernman

I feel that the nanny state keeping everyone safe, will in the long run bring about more and more idiots, more rescues as fewer people will be able to take a caulated risk.

I completely agree with this. The more the state makes these decisions for us in the form of bans, the less able we are as a society to actually use our own brains to make intelligent choices.

This is the kind of thing that leads people to sue a group because that group failed to protect them from themselves (rather than the individual taking responsibility for educating and preparing themselves). We are opening a can of worms.

[Gust]

Dropped by Carseland on the way back from fishin the other day,, the river was high and fast and smelled like fermented septic tank poo (had the great oportunity of rebuilding a tank once),, and by the looks of it, the weir at one point would have only been a couple of feet out of the water.

Boulders as big as minivans were no longer part of the shoreline on sections of the sheep, so my guess is that the rivers where we think we know them are now no more decipherable than the Nile.

Passed the Highwood in a couple of sections yesterday and an hour later at the same spots it appeared higher. The water isn't exactly the type where you'll get to shore quickly and even if you do, you'll be battling a nasty case of Ghardia (<sp?) in other words, your sphincter will take an unexpected holiday while your at the mall seeking out some line dancing cd's in your famous white denims.

[Photoplex]

Originally Posted by GustavMahler

in other words, your sphincter will take an unexpected holiday while your at the mall seeking out some line dancing cd's in your famous white denims.

[Toirtis]

Well, since the ban was effected, the river has dropped about 24cm/9" and 140 cm/s...and despite the provincial flow advisory being rescinded days ago, the ban still stood a couple of hours ago when I called to get an update.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Toirtis

Well, since the ban was effected, the river has dropped about 24cm/9" and 140 cm/s...and despite the provincial flow advisory being rescinded days ago, the ban still stood a couple of hours ago when I called to get an update.

But not siding with the ban (but kinda,, I didn't like the law last week but kinda like it now),, the run off isn't like run offs of back yonder, swift and clear but more like swift Capucino with a fine grating of chocolate for garnish.
Undercuts are still dropping in the river and new embankments aren't firm.

[FishBrain]

Originally Posted by GustavMahler

But not siding with the ban (but kinda,, I didn't like the law last week but kinda like it now),, the run off isn't like run offs of back yonder, swift and clear but more like swift Capucino with a fine grating of chocolate for garnish.
Undercuts are still dropping in the river and new embankments aren't firm.

and there is a WHACK of people beside the river on the south side of the calf robe bridge. Wonder if they are learning to save the stupid, or if they are learning to NOT be stupid?

[Calgarys_finest]

Out of curiosity can i call any fire department location or should i be calling a specific number?

also what about tributaries?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Calgarys_finest

Out of curiosity can i call any fire department location or should i be calling a specific number?

also what about tributaries?

Wouldn't one of Calgary's Finest know the answer to that?

Wait a minute... you never did say finest what. LOL

[shorty_j]

Originally Posted by Calgarys_finest

Out of curiosity can i call any fire department location or should i be calling a specific number?

also what about tributaries?

Another thing I found out in my calls to the FD yesterday was that there isn't really a central place where this information is easily checked, and the best way to find out about it is to look at the city of calgary news feed...

http://newsroom.calgary.ca/pr/calgary/news.aspx

The article to institute the perimeter ban is on page 2 from May 28th. The fact that there is no update indicating that the ban has been lifted is supposed to be enough information for us. Really stupid. The guy I spoke to said when the ban is lifted they will announce it, so you can expect it to be on the news.

You could try calling the FD, but it took me a number of transfered calls to actually put me through to someone who knew the answers to my questions.

[zabbo]

Just leave them alone! Let nature do it's job!

[Toirtis]

Originally Posted by zabbo

Just leave them alone! Let nature do it's job!

I tend to agree...we have legislated common sense, thereby side-stepping natural selection.

That aside, you can call the FD main office at 403-264-1022.

[Ruger1022]

Originally Posted by aulrich

One of the selling points of the new "wier" system was that it was to be used for white water kayaking and now that the water is well into the fun zone they go and shut it down.

The bubble wrappers strike again.

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Yesterday when we were driving SB on Deerfoot, I saw 5 kayakers playing around at the weir. Crazy guys.
And I also saw some construction workers working on the river bank under the 10th street bridge. They were on a path about 3 feet wide. One stumble and they would have been swimming.

http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/dai...11/#clip445025

[Daceminnow]

Originally Posted by Ruger1022

http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/dai...11/#clip445025

very cool piece on the construction at the weir on the Bow. fish WILL have easier access up river, no doubt. thanks for the link ruger.

Dace

[Ruger1022]

Originally Posted by Daceminnow

very cool piece on the construction at the weir on the Bow. fish WILL have easier access up river, no doubt. thanks for the link ruger.

Dace

No problem! I am excited for this to be done, for the fishing and the surfing!! I usually have to go to K-Country for surfing but now there will be some in the heart of Calgary!!

Here is somemore info
http://www.parksfdn.com/Weir.htm



The right side is a expert side but the left side will be more of a slower go for the leisure rafters.

[ishootbambi]

a few have alluded to it already.......we as a society really need to stop interfering with darwin!

[chubbdarter]

before the suckers used to stack up by the hundreds below that weir, not able to get over it.
A high percentage of browns spawn in the zoo area.
I will be very interested how this development affects the brown trout population

[marlin1]

the river ban has been lifted , according to last night's news