Electric Grid Alert

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

The fella on the radio was explaining that radioactive decay is exponential, (I remember that from somewhere in school), and that spent fuel has relatively low levels or radioactivity, if I remember correctly he said after 100 years, you could hold it in your hand. Probably don't want to eat it, or sleep with it under your bed your whole life, but is it really anywhere as risky as the average joe thinks?

I love the show Chernobyl, still think it is one of the best miniseries I've ever seen, but if that is what people still think about modern reactors, their risks, and the risk of the waste, yeeeesh that industry is starting in a really deep hole.

Some of the decay products have very short half lives and are safe after a relatively short time but plutonium has a half life of 24000 years. Only half the uranium on the planet at is creation has transformed to lead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDUvCLAp0uU

Grizz

[ruffy71]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

Some of the decay products have very short half lives and are safe after a relatively short time but plutonium has a half life of 24000 years. Only half the uranium on the planet at is creation has transformed to lead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDUvCLAp0uU

Grizz

Fascinating stuff, just tried to Wikipedia reactor fuels. It looks like newer technology is looking at recycling reactor plutonium.
I’m sure there will always be some dangerous waste no matter what but if renewables never provide enough energy (do we dam every river, cover every square inch of the planet with solar panels and wind turbines?) and since oil will literally dry up one day, I hope the research continues and hope Canada can be at the forefront like we were at one time.

[Pathfinder76]

Is there something wrong with gas, oil, and coal?

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Is there something wrong with gas, oil, and coal?

No

[outofbounds]

Electrical Metals are the driving force for the Kivalliq Hydro-Fibre Link, Watay Power, East-West Tie and Waasigan which are all Transmission projects in the east that are in the high hundreds to billion dollar marks to bolster grid power for mining projects that will feed metals to the predominately European EV market.
OPG has many refurbishment projects on the books, both hydro and current nuclear refurb.
HONI also has major refurbishment projects under way, as in some instances, the grid infrastructure and station equipment have reached EOL.

Talks of looking for more hydro development in the works while decommissioning existing coal fired units.

In Alberta, oilsands producers have been discussing SMR for some time.

SaskPower is forecasting large refurbishments while Uranium development continues in the north.

Grids in Canadian provinces have been predominantly engineered to export hydro generated power from the north to southern US markets $$$.

US infrastructure has been slowly refurbished some due to blackouts like in California, again aged infrastructure and equipment and some by necessity from tropical storms or wildfire.
Most Canadian contractors today have focused on the US markets as profit margins are much higher south of the border.

Currently, there are some mining producers developing gold mines in Canada that have turned to self genereration using gas-fired power plants (Wartsila). Their proximity to TC Energy 42" mainline for fuel gas made it viable as the 115kV line that is in proximity to the mine site was at 96% capacity and aged, so no connectivity for the industrial loads.
With current gold price it was deemed feasible as the mine only had a 15 year life of mine proven ore body. Again metals driving industry spending.


Federal and Provincial dollars have been earmarked for additional infrastructure such as roads and rail in the east to support mining.
The majority of planned operations will be extraction operations with the mined ore set to be shipped to Europe for refinement or conversion.
Meaning that after open pit and hard rock mining methods are utilized for extraction, ore is then shipped via trucking or rail to port, loaded on a ship, sailed across the Great Lakes, down the St. Lawrence and across the pond so European Tesla and Mercedes-Benz EV owners can feel good about saving the planet using EV technology.
I am certain the brochures in the showrooms will not showcase the volume of fossil fuels required to extract and ship the metals required for their new whip...

Electricity demand will always surpass available reliable grid connectivity, fossil fuels will be utilized long before nuke as permitting requirements for new nukes will be the barrier.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Is there something wrong with gas, oil, and coal?

You mean all the stuff we have plenty of for the foreseeable future, is safe, and is relatively cheap?
No

Other people that want their slice of the pie would disagree though.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by Map Maker

When was the main electrical grid built?
What was the average panel size on a house at that time?
20 years ago people were complaining that a/c were causing blackouts.
Electric cars are mostly charged during the night at lowest demand.
No to nuclear power.

We just need some smart people planning the future of Alberta.

The newest national electrical code has an upsizing of all new installations.

Even though Fortis is making massive profits, since it is deregulated, they have been enjoying the money and putting minimal back into upgrading capital infrastructure. Now we all pay.
My thoughts.

Lol the needs of us regular guys are small potatos. The pulp mill I work at has basically been sitting down most of the last week because the cost of power was high enough that we actually lose more money trying to produce pulp than we do not running at all. This has been becoming more and more common, this is just one of many multi week strings where the mill runs less than half the time. Hot days, cold days, days without wind, and often right through the night. Then the price of power drops and we scramble to get the mill going, from sitting down for the last 16 hours the presses plug up and we get fires in the drying stages... about the time the mill is producing pulp power jumps back up and we shut back down again... And this is at a facility that has its own Biogas generation plant to help with power.

Even if we get the grid to where it can handle a horde of Ev's, the cost of power will kill much of our industry.The mill has got a fair bit of money invested in powerfull software that does nothing but moniter the power demand in real time, and try to trend and predict the swings. It only takes one glance at those computer screens on a hot day to tell you that Alberta wont be able to handle EV's any time soon.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

Unrefined uranium ore is only slightly radioactive and not really dangerous. When I was a teen, I requested a sample from the mine in Northern Saskatchewan, for a science project. They sent me about 5 lbs.

Grizz

Yeah rrighttttt… Tell this to the thousands of Soviet prisoners whose life expectancy was about 2-3 months once they got transferred to the Uranium Mines in the former USSR…. Lots of convicts who got 25 years + or a capital punishment were sent there…

[6.5 shooter]

TEDxVancouver - Patrick Moore - 11/21/09

https://youtu.be/kHZKo13HV2A

[MyAlberta]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

TEDxVancouver - Patrick Moore - 11/21/09

https://youtu.be/kHZKo13HV2A

Bingo

Alberta’s brown coals are some of the richest resources for future demands, yet we insist on incinerating them.
Fretting that future demands will overrun today’s infrastructure is an idle mind.

[mac1983]

Originally Posted by Dick284

If you aren’t in favour of carbon based generation (fossil fuels/coal) then you better accept the nuclear generation option. Relying on the so called “green” generation options is a road to ruin in the less than temperate climate zones.

Will geothermal ever be a thing in Alberta?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MyAlberta

Bingo

Alberta’s brown coals are some of the richest resources for future demands, yet we insist on incinerating them.
Fretting that future demands will overrun today’s infrastructure is an idle mind.

And legislating even more future demands on infrastructure that doesn't yet exist, and that we have no immediate feasible plans to develop, is idiocy.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by mac1983

Will geothermal ever be a thing in Alberta?

Geothermal runs on electricity - quite a bit of it. The increased cost of heating via geothermal aside, switching over fossil fuel heating to geothermal heating will exacerbate the grid problems.

[MyAlberta]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

and that we have no immediate feasible plans to develop, is idiocy.

Totally agree

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MyAlberta

Totally agree

And we don't yet have a solution that will provide the extra grid and power generation that will be required anytime soon. Some people are acting like the grid will just increase capacity, and the generation plants, will just spring up on their own. Even once the plans are drawn up, it takes many years, and huge amounts of money, to do the work

[-JR-]

Originally Posted by The Cook

Minus 28 here last night. One vehicle plugged in all night because you just can't count on an ambulance like you used to. Maybe shut off some lights in the downtown office towers for a start.

2x

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by mac1983

Will geothermal ever be a thing in Alberta?

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Geothermal runs on electricity - quite a bit of it. The increased cost of heating via geothermal aside, switching over fossil fuel heating to geothermal heating will exacerbate the grid problems.

Correct. Geothermal heating/cooling works when electricity is cheap, which we will never see again.
Startup costs on geothermal is quite expensive as well. Been a long time since I had anything to do with it, but 30 years ago was involved in a project for a smaller rural school in Ontario. If I remember right the loops consisted of 51-300' holes drilled for the loops. Wanna say 7" holes. Then of course there is the price of the furnace. Pretty significant cost.
As said, they use a ton of electricity.

[Map Maker]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And we don't yet have a solution that will provide the extra grid and power generation that will be required anytime soon. Some people are acting like the grid will just increase capacity, and the generation plants, will just spring up on their own. Even once the plans are drawn up, it takes many years, and huge amounts of money, to do the work

I’ve always been an advocate of letting homeowners access the electrical grid with solar or wind power generation. Rooftop solar and selling back the power at the same all-in rate we buy at.
I estimate the payoff/payback time would be about 3 years (currently it is 5 years). That would make it very inticing to 75% of homeowners.

This would boost supply and reduce demand.

[mac1983]

Originally Posted by Map Maker

I’ve always been an advocate of letting homeowners access the electrical grid with solar or wind power generation. Rooftop solar and selling back the power at the same all-in rate we buy at.
I estimate the payoff/payback time would be about 3 years (currently it is 5 years). That would make it very inticing to 75% of homeowners.

This would boost supply and reduce demand.

Yes, every service should have an interlock to the grid.

And have the ability to sell power to the grid.

Not sure Nancy Southern would approve.

[Twisted Canuck]

Power grids are fragile things. Doesn't take much to shut things down. Far more vulnerable to disruption then you would think. And there are cascading failure affects, as happened in Texas during their storm. This is fresh news here:

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/in...CBOEI4G2G5CZY/

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Map Maker

I’ve always been an advocate of letting homeowners access the electrical grid with solar or wind power generation. Rooftop solar and selling back the power at the same all-in rate we buy at.
I estimate the payoff/payback time would be about 3 years (currently it is 5 years). That would make it very inticing to 75% of homeowners.

This would boost supply and reduce demand.

What location are you using for the payback calculation? The farther north you go, the more heat is required in winter and the less hours of daylight in winter.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Map Maker

20 years ago people were complaining that a/c were causing blackouts.

And they're still trying to figure that out aren't they? Maybe we're down to brownout status now.....

[Map Maker]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

What location are you using for the payback calculation? The farther north you go, the more heat is required in winter and the less hours of daylight in winter.

Actually a friend of a friend in Calgary recently installed solar panels and calculated the payback in 5 years after one year of data.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Map Maker

Actually a friend of a friend in Calgary recently installed solar panels and calculated the payback in 5 years after one year of data.

I'm not sure your friend is calculating accurately. My neighbor outfitted his 2400 sq/ft shop about 4 years ago, even with the incentives he calculates near 25 years.. One thing many forget, insurance rates increase with solar as well.

I should mention he went with geotherm, his electric draw is excessive due to the pump... He also states he would never go with geotherm again...

[Map Maker]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

I'm not sure your friend is calculating accurately. My neighbor outfitted his 2400 sq/ft shop about 4 years ago, even with the incentives he calculates near 25 years.. One thing many forget, insurance rates increase with solar as well.

I should mention he went with geotherm, his electric draw is excessive due to the pump... He also states he would never go with geotherm again...

I rechecked the text and it’s was a 7 year buyback.

Here was his first month bill.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Calgary/com...tm_name=iossmf

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Map Maker

Actually a friend of a friend in Calgary recently installed solar panels and calculated the payback in 5 years after one year of data.

That sounds pretty optimistic, given that I am seeing 8-10 years quoted for Southern Alberta, and up to 12 years, in the North, to save enough to cover the cost of the system. And that doesn't cover extra insurance, which someone else mentioned.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Map Maker

I rechecked the text and it’s was a 7 year buyback.

Here was his first month bill.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Calgary/com...tm_name=iossmf

The average electric consumption in Calgary per month is 600 kWh.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

I'm not sure your friend is calculating accurately. My neighbor outfitted his 2400 sq/ft shop about 4 years ago, even with the incentives he calculates near 25 years.. One thing many forget, insurance rates increase with solar as well.

I should mention he went with geotherm, his electric draw is excessive due to the pump... He also states he would never go with geotherm again...

I have yet to meet someone with geothermal that doesn’t sing the same song.

[Twisted Canuck]

Geothermal makes sense, if you live in Iceland, and there are geothermal vents and lava flows and active volcanoes readily available. Other then that, not so much.

[Cement Bench]

was it Medicine Hat that did solar or wind for municipal buildings and then abandon that project in the last few years
will need to look it up