Paid Access to Land

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by pikeslayer22

There is one fix.... invest in your own hunting land!!!! still lots of recreational land to be had...there will come a time... not sure some of us will see it... that if you don't own it you wont ve using it for free! Never ceases to amaze me people will buy a 350 to 500 k house in some city and look at realestate for vacation purposes in foreign countrys and complain about someone that won't give them access to there land as if it were their right! My 2 cents as a landowner!!

I agree, there is 1/4 section where I hunt that I'd love to buy. But watch out for someone to start complaining that this is a form of paid hunting too.

[Keeleclimber]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Increasing commercialization of hunting and hunting lands should result in more of it, and better management, more game, etc. I don't discount that. I just think the vast majority of hunters in Alberta don't want to go down that path and have it become a rich man's game to harvest a shared, communal resource. Increased cost if just going to drive more people from the sport, so what you gain in resource richness you lose with a shrinking hunter base to politically defend it.

Well said...
If we are going down the path where hunting turns into a "rich man's game" (which I'm afraid is what will eventually happen), how do we keep a strong hunter base? to defend our hunting heritage?

[greylynx]

Farmers are trying to cover their costs every way they can.

What do figure if a tax credit is granted to landowners who have property under cultivation, but leave strategic wildlife habitat alone.

I know this is just like paying the farmer, but it does not look as corrupt.

[calgarychef]

Someone said to invest in yor own hunting land, nice idea but at the prices of land in Alberta it would make more financial sense to just pay a farmer a couple grand a year to hunt and you'd be way further ahead.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Farmers are trying to cover their costs every way they can.

What do figure if a tax credit is granted to landowners who have property under cultivation, but leave strategic wildlife habitat alone.

I know this is just like paying the farmer, but it does not look as corrupt.

And I don't blame farmers at all for wanting to maximize their income, whether it's by plowing over habitat or via paid hunting. I have great respect for the farmers whose land I hunt on who leave wetland and other habitat just because "it's the right thing to do". Sort of amazing really in this day and age.

Tax credits and other help I don't have a problem with from an ethical point of view, but politically it may be seen as a subsidy, not necessarily of farmers, but of hunters, particularly if you tie any subsidy to hunter access. Small amount would probably be OK. The govt pays for other recreational facilities, but CRP and similar programs in the US must cost hundreds or millions or billions.

[calgarychef]

I'm glad someone brought up this subject, it kills me to consider it because we set up this country so everyone could hunt but the facts is the facts.

Paid hunting is already here and we'll lose control of our traditions if we don't come up with an equitable plan. The trophy hunting industry has perverted hunting so much that money is the only thing that matters and many trophies are killed only because someone has enough money.

Some thoughts:

I'm in the UK right now and I've done a bit of hunting while I'm here. Buddy who took me out shoots over 200 roe deer a season and that doesn't include his other hunting. Another guy I know shoots over 100 red deer in his first MONTH of hunting, he hunts about 6 months a year.

The way it works here is if a landowner has game he can designate someone to shoot it but the meat remains the landowners. He can sell it to a game buyer who resells it. I've bought from the grocery store: wild mallard, rabbits, venison, pigeon. Another guy I know shoots rabbits and sells them for a pound a bunny and he's made a thousand pounds some weeks. I can go for a drive and see easily 40 pheasants in an evening. There is a lot of game here, because it has value. If it had no value it wouldn't be here.

I don't like the idea of paid hunting in Alberta but it has an upside too.

The landowner gets some benefit from saving habitat for game animals. The better the habitat the more game he has to hunt.

We are a bit arrogant to think that we should get to traipse all over someones land and get the game for nothing. The owner has to spend time talking to us and basically "managing" the hunt, like where we can go, when we can hunt etc. This all takes time and the owner should get some kind of financial consideration.

I figure a deer yields about $500.00 worth of meat based on the price of farmed elk or organic beef as a comparison. If the farmer lets us hunt for free it costs him money and time not much maybe but still some. We in turn buy less meat at Safeway and the farmers by default will sell less. So it's a bit of a double whammy to the farmer.

As the hunter we often spend more time running around and fretting about getting permission than actually hunting. It really takes some of the fun out of hunting. There has to be a better way.

There has to be some way to have a middle ground where the hunter and landowners both come out ahead. I'm not sure how to go about it but I'll guarantee that if we can't find a way one will be shoved down our throats.

I'd be in favour of paying so much per animal as a meat animal and very possible paying more for a male animal. I'm against paying so much per inch for trophies an animal is an animal.

The prices should be set in stone now and should be indexed to inflation or to the price of meat in the store to ensure that it remains at a constant level for every generation and to avoid "price creep." This should be written into law to keep a level playing field for everyone.

[H380]

Originally Posted by Ryry4

I agree, there is 1/4 section where I hunt that I'd love to buy. But watch out for someone to start complaining that this is a form of paid hunting too.

You could always say you bought it to enhance habitat ..lol.. Some one will always get picky and try and find fault in it .

[H380]

calgary chef and Okotokian as well as many others have made great points on this thread as well as many other individuals . A lot of the habitat that is lost is more of a greed thing than need . Take a drive out and look where some farmers have worked right up to county roadways { the barrow pit is not theirs} or burned out wetlands that are unsuitable for crop production . Not even a place for a song bird to nest let alone a pheasant .. And they call it progress . Don't know what the solution is , it won't be simple .

[cowmanbob]

Originally Posted by H380

calgary chef and Okotokian as well as many others have made great points on this thread as well as many other individuals . A lot of the habitat that is lost is more of a greed thing than need . Take a drive out and look where some farmers have worked right up to county roadways { the barrow pit is not theirs} or burned out wetlands that are unsuitable for crop production . Not even a place for a song bird to nest let alone a pheasant .. And they call it progress . Don't know what the solution is , it won't be simple .

there are also farmers out there young and old that are restoring wetlands, fencing off creeks and windbreaks trying to create nesting sites. Also delaying grazing or haying to give the birds a chance to survive. We spend 60$ a month to feed the grosbeaks here and I couldn't even guess how much i've spent on fencing riparian areas. Myself and other farmers do a lot of this because its the right thing to do.

[pikeslayer22]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

there are also farmers out there young and old that are restoring wetlands, fencing off creeks and windbreaks trying to create nesting sites. Also delaying grazing or haying to give the birds a chance to survive. We spend 60$ a month to feed the grosbeaks here and I couldn't even guess how much i've spent on fencing riparian areas. Myself and other farmers do a lot of this because its the right thing to do.

Yes think of a purchase of land as an investment in your childrens future in hunting...you and they will have access forever and you can manage it in the way you see fit...besides that show me an rrsp or mutual that will keep up with a land investment...in the last 10 years the land i bought has quadrupuled in value...

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

there are also farmers out there young and old that are restoring wetlands, fencing off creeks and windbreaks trying to create nesting sites. Also delaying grazing or haying to give the birds a chance to survive. We spend 60$ a month to feed the grosbeaks here and I couldn't even guess how much i've spent on fencing riparian areas. Myself and other farmers do a lot of this because its the right thing to do.

Indeed, but not nearly enough people out there doing so. We bought some what was considered marginal grain land a few years ago and have put a lot of sweat equity into helping the wildlife. Around 7000+ trees and shrubs established, 30 acres of grassland for upland, 5 acres wetland, a lot of stinking work. Frustrating when a tractor catches an edge of a shelterbelt or trespassing guys chasing yotes runs over my buffaloberry bushes but its still rewarding. Shot the first partridge's off the first shelterbelt we planted (5 years ago now) this fall, great feeling.
Another neighbor that hunts none the less, has removed most of the old caragana and combined the fields so there's no more "edges". Feels like a losing battle down here helping out the critters, but i haven't quit. Ordered another 2000 shrubs from the PFRA this year, and a few other from a private nursery, time will tell if we get them. Sure its only a few hundred acres, but its a start..

If it wasn't for the subsidized shrubs from the federal gov i guarantee we only would have 1/10th the wildlife habitat on our place. Some programs are nice..

[chronieking]

i really apprecaite all the comments on my kijiji add, anyone can distort or manipulate it any way they would like.... my intentions were to rent a piece of recreational piece of land and do some landscaping yes!!!! pay for hunting access nope not solely, i have talked to a few fish and wildlife officials about this matter before posting the add(still on the table) if anyonere thinks i have to pay for permission they are out to lunch i have banged on many a door and drank many a pot of coffee to get my permission. problem i find where i get permission im not the only one who gets it there, with 2 young kids now hunting with me i have seen enough retards this last season doing **** i didnt like that i am seeking other options(these clowns are a totally different rant) to the meatstick who has now copy and pasted my personal information onto this site without my permission is the only one doing anything illegal, as much as i have provided kijiji canada this information publicly not your right to throw it around as you please!!!! to the gusys trying to give me a heads up and potentially stop me from wrong doing thanks!!!(taking the dogs out cat hunting in the am, if any of u wanna bering your cameras? invite is there, text me everyone know my #now lol) i dont have to expain f'all to anyone just thought i would put my own comments on the matter
Darcy Goodman

[cowmanbob]

Wow JRS thats quite impressive and I for one commend you for doing so. It for sure is a good feeling to see benefit from your work. Keep it up bob

[flyguyd]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Someone said to invest in yor own hunting land, nice idea but at the prices of land in Alberta it would make more financial sense to just pay a farmer a couple grand a year to hunt and you'd be way further ahead.

Land is cheap in Saskatchewan and good hunting too

[H380]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

there are also farmers out there young and old that are restoring wetlands, fencing off creeks and windbreaks trying to create nesting sites. Also delaying grazing or haying to give the birds a chance to survive. We spend 60$ a month to feed the grosbeaks here and I couldn't even guess how much i've spent on fencing riparian areas. Myself and other farmers do a lot of this because its the right thing to do.

Don't get me wrong cowman bob , I'm a farmer too, just not one of those who thinks they have to scratch up every last inch of available habitat or burn it out .. We have 2 pheasant feeders out and also don't graze into the ground . I'm just saying a lot of good habitat is lost to those over achievers who think they need to be super efficient {hutterites }. I know there are many good farmers who are stewards of the land like yourself and they need to be commended because "YES " it is the right thing to do .

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by chronieking

i really apprecaite all the comments on my kijiji add, anyone can distort or manipulate it any way they would like.... my intentions were to rent a piece of recreational piece of land and do some landscaping yes!!!! pay for hunting access nope not solely, i have talked to a few fish and wildlife officials about this matter before posting the add(still on the table) if anyonere thinks i have to pay for permission they are out to lunch i have banged on many a door and drank many a pot of coffee to get my permission. problem i find where i get permission im not the only one who gets it there, with 2 young kids now hunting with me i have seen enough retards this last season doing **** i didnt like that i am seeking other options(these clowns are a totally different rant) to the meatstick who has now copy and pasted my personal information onto this site without my permission is the only one doing anything illegal, as much as i have provided kijiji canada this information publicly not your right to throw it around as you please!!!! to the gusys trying to give me a heads up and potentially stop me from wrong doing thanks!!!(taking the dogs out cat hunting in the am, if any of u wanna bering your cameras? invite is there, text me everyone know my #now lol) i dont have to expain f'all to anyone just thought i would put my own comments on the matter
Darcy Goodman

Here is your chance to "clear the air" on your ad....

"I would like to find a farmer that would be interested in renting me a few acres off of a bush for the purpose to hunt (even just bowhunting if he/she was sticky about livestock) i would like to make a food plot and put up a stand / anywhere in the vacintity of red deer would be great (pine lake area preferably..) if anyone could help that would be great, im sure we could work out a fair dear
thanks"

Reading this without any other context....it seems you are looking to rent a piece of property from a farmer with the purpose of setting up a food plot to set a stand up over inorder to hunt by the food plot....

If I am reading this wrong....please correct me....

Also just a heads up, if you post something on a public internet site....don't expect the information to ever be private...it became public the moment you hit submit....the internet is forever....if you post it publically then you waive all "rights" over the information you posted. For the record I did not post your Ad initially and I did not include your personal information here out of mutual respect.

Regards,
LC

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by chronieking

i really apprecaite all the comments on my kijiji add, anyone can distort or manipulate it any way they would like.... my intentions were to rent a piece of recreational piece of land and do some landscaping yes!!!! pay for hunting access nope not solely, i have talked to a few fish and wildlife officials about this matter before posting the add(still on the table) if anyonere thinks i have to pay for permission they are out to lunch i have banged on many a door and drank many a pot of coffee to get my permission. problem i find where i get permission im not the only one who gets it there, with 2 young kids now hunting with me i have seen enough retards this last season doing **** i didnt like that i am seeking other options(these clowns are a totally different rant) to the meatstick who has now copy and pasted my personal information onto this site without my permission is the only one doing anything illegal, as much as i have provided kijiji canada this information publicly not your right to throw it around as you please!!!! to the gusys trying to give me a heads up and potentially stop me from wrong doing thanks!!!(taking the dogs out cat hunting in the am, if any of u wanna bering your cameras? invite is there, text me everyone know my #now lol) i dont have to expain f'all to anyone just thought i would put my own comments on the matter
Darcy Goodman

Wow is right. What you posted on your ad is illegal - paying for hunting access and baiting for the purpose of hunting. You better thank those who brought it to your attention.

[chronieking]

there is a big difference between renting land and buying permission....i just wanted to clarify the fact that i would be hunting the land i rent umongst othe recreation activities that is all, it is very disheartening the way this has been spun around, like i said nothing illegal about what i intended, poorly worded yes

[cowmanbob]

Originally Posted by H380

Don't get me wrong cowman bob , I'm a farmer too, just not one of those who thinks they have to scratch up every last inch of available habitat or burn it out .. We have 2 pheasant feeders out and also don't graze into the ground . I'm just saying a lot of good habitat is lost to those over achievers who think they need to be super efficient {hutterites }. I know there are many good farmers who are stewards of the land like yourself and they need to be commended because "YES " it is the right thing to do .

Just wanted to point out the other side of the coin. Good on you for the pheasant feeders.

[walking buffalo]

NA wildlife was rescued from extinction not through concerns over the bottom line, but through a true cariing for Nature.

Lets get back to the core of the North American Model for Wildlife Conservation and Leopold's Land Ethic.

Forget about Money as a Solution, and work from there.

Originally Posted by SLH

As long as the average farmer believes there is more social distinction in driving a new car than in harboring a flock of prairie chickens, the cars will increase and the chickens decrease. But when he realizes that any ordinary person can drive a new car, but that the trusteeship of natural beauty is a distinction open only to landowners, then there may be a real change. Conservation, in short, is at direct variance with the moral and esthetic standards of our generation, and until these standards change, we can have only such fragments as happen to "come easy."

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

there are also farmers out there young and old that are restoring wetlands, fencing off creeks and windbreaks trying to create nesting sites. Also delaying grazing or haying to give the birds a chance to survive. We spend 60$ a month to feed the grosbeaks here and I couldn't even guess how much i've spent on fencing riparian areas. Myself and other farmers do a lot of this because its the right thing to do.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by chronieking

i really apprecaite all the comments on my kijiji add, anyone can distort or manipulate it any way they would like.... my intentions were to rent a piece of recreational piece of land and do some landscaping yes!!!! pay for hunting access nope not solely, i have talked to a few fish and wildlife officials about this matter before posting the add(still on the table) if anyonere thinks i have to pay for permission they are out to lunch i have banged on many a door and drank many a pot of coffee to get my permission. problem i find where i get permission im not the only one who gets it there, with 2 young kids now hunting with me i have seen enough retards this last season doing **** i didnt like that i am seeking other options(these clowns are a totally different rant) to the meatstick who has now copy and pasted my personal information onto this site without my permission is the only one doing anything illegal, as much as i have provided kijiji canada this information publicly not your right to throw it around as you please!!!! to the gusys trying to give me a heads up and potentially stop me from wrong doing thanks!!!(taking the dogs out cat hunting in the am, if any of u wanna bering your cameras? invite is there, text me everyone know my #now lol) i dont have to expain f'all to anyone just thought i would put my own comments on the matter
Darcy Goodman

Posting a copy of a public add maintians the record of your solicitation. The public and provincial authorities now have opportunity to repond to your actions.





First impressions of your kijiji add gave creadence that perhaps you do not know the laws regarding baiting and paying for access. Ignorance is not a valid defense.

Your follow up comments in thid thread prove that you really don't care what the law is nor the important social value it maintains for the public and wildlife.

Originally Posted by chronieking

there is a big difference between renting land and buying permission....i just wanted to clarify the fact that i would be hunting the land i rent umongst othe recreation activities that is all, it is very disheartening the way this has been spun around, like i said nothing illegal about what i intended, poorly worded yes

[alpineguy]

Firstly, I am not a fan of payed access. I have been to Europe and seen how financially restrictive their system is. Oh sure, if you have a lot of money there are not a lot of issues, that's why the King of Denmark holds the Crown Deer record (or at least did while I was there)!
Is that what we want?
Another thing is why are some complaining about habitat. If you are truly concerned, push back your chair from the computer this spring and go offer to replant some trees/shrubs/grasses on a farm or ranch for no compensation or future priveledges, it certainly is cheaper than having the Government administer it.
Lastly, I think there are some out there who forget this is Canada and our weather is somewhat less hospitible than many other parts of the world including our neighbors to the south. Habitat is great but a winter like last year's can take the best habitat and bury it in abnormal amounts of snow. Then add unbearable cold and animals will not survive.

JUST MY 2 CENTS

[Jamie]

Hold on a second, I see nothing wrong with renting land for private recreation. Perhaps that is camping, hiking or fishing. A nice spot you can put up a trailer and a stack of wood.

Jamie

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Hold on a second, I see nothing wrong with renting land for private recreation. Perhaps that is camping, hiking or fishing. A nice spot you can put up a trailer and a stack of wood.

Jamie

Have you seen the thread with Chronieking's add?

The add has now been deleted from kijiji.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=120259

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by alpineguy

Firstly, I am not a fan of payed access. I have been to Europe and seen how financially restrictive their system is. Oh sure, if you have a lot of money there are not a lot of issues, that's why the King of Denmark holds the Crown Deer record (or at least did while I was there)!
Is that what we want?
Another thing is why are some complaining about habitat. If you are truly concerned, push back your chair from the computer this spring and go offer to replant some trees/shrubs/grasses on a farm or ranch for no compensation or future priveledges, it certainly is cheaper than having the Government administer it.
Lastly, I think there are some out there who forget this is Canada and our weather is somewhat less hospitible than many other parts of the world including our neighbors to the south. Habitat is great but a winter like last year's can take the best habitat and bury it in abnormal amounts of snow. Then add unbearable cold and animals will not survive.

JUST MY 2 CENTS

I'm certain that if I went to my old neighbors and said that I'd replant the wind breaks that they spent a bunch of time and resources pulling out they'd laugh me off their place. I'm also certain that SMRID could care less about habitat while they're pulling out ditches and putting in pipelines.

Growing up south of Grassy Lake we had pheasants in our yard all year long as habitat went away so did the birds. I haven't seen a pheasant down there in about 20 years.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Ryry4

I'm certain that if I went to my old neighbors and said that I'd replant the wind breaks that they spent a bunch of time and resources pulling out they'd laugh me off their place. I'm also certain that SMRID could care less about habitat while they're pulling out ditches and putting in pipelines.

Growing up south of Grassy Lake we had pheasants in our yard all year long as habitat went away so did the birds. I haven't seen a pheasant down there in about 20 years.

So true.

I have 80 acres that I leave alone. No pasture, no cultivation, no nothing.
I get phone calls from neighbors who have stripped their land right down to the road allowance, asking to hunt on my measly little sanctuary.

It really did not matter having permission or not, the locals went and tore up my little sanctuary with quads and trucks.

I solved that problem. I only allow certain members of the EPS to hunt there now.

A pretty sorry state of affairs.

[cowmanbob]

Originally Posted by Ryry4

I agree, there is 1/4 section where I hunt that I'd love to buy. But watch out for someone to start complaining that this is a form of paid hunting too.

better buy that 1/4 while you can still lock in a low interest rate.

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

better buy that 1/4 while you can still lock in a low interest rate.

Tell me about it. Unfortunately it's my cousins ex-wife and the bag won't sell it to me.

[greylynx]

It does not take much to reguvinate your property for wildlife.

There are guys from Poland on this forum that sent me pictures of Grey (ie Hungarian) partridge winter feeding stations. Not hard to make and old lettuce cabbage and carrot peels are recycled in a different manner... through the birds. Also a little grit helps.

For ruffed grouse I have sectored an old poplar stand into old new and medium growth phases. The old part lets the ruffies hide and nest while the new part has nice sugary buds to feed in addition to a little rosehip and raspberry transplanting.

It is a matter of getting of your rear end and doing a little.