Immunisations, In Specific Polio

[ward]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Ok, I am not against vaccinations, I am neutral. I agree with the polio vaccine, for one. My ONLY point is that whoever condones mandatory vaccinations for children whose parents are opposed to it for their personal reasons is a fool.

The fool is the one who takes advice from Internet forums.

[play.soccer]

Silverdoctor = not actually a doctor.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Flu shots are a good idea for infants and elderly especially those with conditions that make the flu potentially very dangerous. Also good for people that are regularly around or work with such people.





No one said anything about mandatory vaccinations. This thread was to educate those that think the polio vaccine will do more harm then good, most of which probably don't even realize the potential consequences of not doing so.

Since you want to bring it up though I will comment on it. In the case of serious diseases like Polio I actually would not have a problem with mandatory vaccinations for the same reasons I am ok with the government controlling speed limits on motorways. It would be nice if the government didn't have to control these things but there are far too many idiots in this world that put others at risk(including their own children) hence why some of these decisions are better off left to more educated people that have dedicated their life to solving these issues.

As a parent etc go ahead and question how vaccines are developed, question what regulatory bodies deal with them and what testing they have to undergo before they are put into production/use. If you find a legitimate issue with this then do what you have to do to try and get that system corrected. Do not just refuse to use them and especially do not argue to others that they are not safe etc. If you are going to do so you better have years of experience and scientific data that proves your point and if you have that you should be dealing with the companies, government and regulatory bodies involved not the general public...

I couldn't even imagine being a parent and having my child come down with a debilitating disease that I chose not to immunise them for. I would think that would be a pretty rough decision to live with...

Well said and agree.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Ok, I am not against vaccinations, I am neutral. I agree with the polio vaccine, for one. My ONLY point is that whoever condones mandatory vaccinations for children whose parents are opposed to it for their personal reasons is a fool.

Why have laws against murder? I guess so that someone doesn't hurt others. Not vaccinating hurts your own kids and hurts others who medically cannot vaccinate.

The only way to eradicate disease is through vaccinations.

A buddy had polio. As he gets older the after affects are problematic.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

My point is - educate yourselves. Give me reasons for people being pro vaccine? Most people I talk to have no clue about the dark side of it.

What caused polio to become an issue in the first place? Was it the vaccine that halted the spread of polio or the banning of poisonous and toxic metals that finally allowed for the populace to heal from it?

Do you realize that polio has mutated to breach the current vaccination protocol? Measles and chicken pox have mutated as well. That the current vaccine doesn't work on it? That's what viruses and bacteria do, they mutate to survive.

The people on the "dark side" of vaccinations also believe in UFO, CIA blowing up the twin towers, US government faking mass murders and so on.

Legitimate scientific sites and studies not faked are all showing the massive benefit of vaccinations far far far far out value and tiny tiny tiny problems.

A seat belt can cause injuries. Most times not having a seat belt on is far more dangerous.

Don't try and convince people not to vaccinate their kids it is dangerous and evil and unethical as your actions could cause a Child to die.

Thanks
Sun

[greendrake]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

My point is - educate yourselves. Give me reasons for people being pro vaccine? Most people I talk to have no clue about the dark side of it.

What caused polio to become an issue in the first place? Was it the vaccine that halted the spread of polio or the banning of poisonous and toxic metals that finally allowed for the populace to heal from it?

Do you realize that polio has mutated to breach the current vaccination protocol? Measles and chicken pox have mutated as well. That the current vaccine doesn't work on it? That's what viruses and bacteria do, they mutate to survive.

You speak with authority when it is clear that you are reading crap. Polio was nearly eradicated the world over but for some of the poorest parts of India where it was allowed to mutate same with measles. Had the vaccines been able to reach those areas in time we likely would talk about it past tense. When99% of Doctors and scientists who work directly in this area agree vaccines are absolutely necessary. Only a complete fool would try to argue the point. As for you Government controlling our lives its because of this mentality that for the good of our society as a whole the medical community urges them to mandate it. If those of you crying about Gov intruding in your life then move to the jungle and help keep these viruses mutating so that we deal with more crap down the road

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

My point is - educate yourselves. Give me reasons for people being pro vaccine? Most people I talk to have no clue about the dark side of it.

What caused polio to become an issue in the first place? Was it the vaccine that halted the spread of polio or the banning of poisonous and toxic metals that finally allowed for the populace to heal from it?

Do you realize that polio has mutated to breach the current vaccination protocol? Measles and chicken pox have mutated as well. That the current vaccine doesn't work on it? That's what viruses and bacteria do, they mutate to survive.

Jenny McCarthy is that you?

One of the points of vaccination is to eliminate the disease. With no hosts it’s more difficult to mutate.

Most of us are pretty educated but really it boils down to a game of statistics. It’s about lowering your coefficient.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by ward

The fool is the one who takes advice from Internet forums.

Am I giving advice? I am merely stating my opposition to increased gov’t control and the erosion of personal freedoms. Something so many here value far to little.

[saskbooknut]

And if you lived on a deserted island, having no need for interaction with other human beings, you would have no responsibility to a broader society at all.

[Digger1]

Just curious why our kids get like double the vaccinations that Europeans get? I have a daughter who went thru about 4 years of seizures after shots at 18 months old. After going and testing the hell out of her for brain tumours etc etc, the doctor at Children’s Hospital says, we can’t say what’s wrong but make sure she never gets another vaccination. It may kill her.

And then a couple years ago my cousin’s daughter in Ontario started nursing school and got immunized for that. It put her in the hospital and psych ward for about 6 months. They had her tested and the lead and mercury in her blood was almost off the charts. She’s finally back on her feet and driving again.

When I was a commercial pilot I got vaccinated for all kinds of third world poop, so I’m just trying to eat healthy and clean and hope for the best. My wife’s had quite a bit of medical training and even worked in hospitals in Thailand. She knows the value of immunizations, but really questions the number of shots they’re giving and why all the heavy metal crap in them?

[Weedy1]

Digger, Thimerosal in vaccines:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...sal/index.html

[SlightlyDistracting]

Yup. Like mercury!! Im not saying vaccines are all bad but does anyone research what you are putting in you?

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by SlightlyDistracting

Yup. Like mercury!! Im not saying vaccines are all bad but does anyone research what you are putting in you?

What we do know is that the people who produce and administer the vaccines have done all the research necessary.

[Weedy1]

Originally Posted by SlightlyDistracting

Yup. Like mercury!! Im not saying vaccines are all bad but does anyone research what you are putting in you?

Yes, that's why I posted an article just above your post that would have answered your question.

From the article:
Thimerosal was taken out of childhood vaccines in the United States in 2001.
Measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccines do not and never did contain thimerosal. Varicella (chickenpox), inactivated polio (IPV), and pneumococcal conjugate vaccines have also never contained thimerosal.
Influenza (flu) vaccines are currently available in both thimerosal-containing (for multi-dose vaccine vials) and thimerosal-free versions.

For a complete list of vaccines and their thimerosal content level, see the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Thimerosal in Vaccines page. This chart[PDF – 182 KB] shows vaccine ingredients sorted by vaccine.

[CaberTosser]

Ironic how the boards resident perpetual conspiracy theorist also admits to being a smoker: Fell for the biggest proven corporate conspiracy in the history of mankind and still funds big tobacco to this day through his purchases, but according to him, everything else that could have a conspiracy does. Tells us what is medically bad for us then pays good money to inhale cancer..... not someone who’s opinion I would trust save for that from his actual occupation.

Dude, it’s not the rest of us being suckered and you being the proverbial canary in the coal mine; its not every single big pharma, it’s not every aspect of government (but I’ll certainly allow for some), 9/11 was not an inside job, the police are not out to get you: it’s simply you and your default desire to believe such things. With you it’s never “there might be a conspiracy”, it’s always “Oh, it’s totally always a conspiracy”. The do your research suggestion bears this out as that phrase seems to be a popular conversational crutch for conspiracy junkies. Even when a person researches legitimate data and refers to the topics most respected authorities that is rejected as being an illegitimate source and part of the big conspiracy. My own mother who I love dearly uses that same do your research quote and is just as fully brainwashed on the quackery that you espouse. God help my 4 siblings and I (or anyone else for that matter) to take the rational side of a debate on any such topic with her; oh the yelling . I hope you have an epiphany as to your belief patterns and realize how unhealthy they are, seriously. I wish better for anyone suckered in by such disinformation put out by charlatans. It’s as bad or even worse for your health than the smoking. And I say this as a friend.

[silverdoctor]

Same old argument from the pro vaccine crowd, name calling, conspiracy theorist etc. It's the argument from the leftist crowd, facts don't matter. Put forth some hard core information for a change.

Pesticides like lead and arsenic were used for decades starting from the 1890's - around the same time that polio started becoming a problem - and it just got worse. We now know the effects of lead and arsenic on our bodies - especially our immune systems. The toxic effects of lead were long known by the 1920's. Were heavy metals at least partly responsible for polio having the ability to invade our nervous systems?

Would you knowingly eat fruits or vegetables that were sprayed with lead and arsenic? I wouldn't.

The DDT battle still rages on - is it safe or not. Millions of gallons of the stuff was sprayed over the population of the USA every year in the 1940's and on. entire cities and towns were fogged from trucks with DDT. Crowds of people were fogged. People were dosed with the stuff in powdered form. It was sprayed from aircraft. Others ate the stuff to prove it was safe. Lots of old archival footage on youtube, have a look, it's interesting stuff. part of the reason for using it was to fight against polio.

So what caused polio to become invasive in the late 1800's and on through the 1900's and not prior?


I still find it disturbing that 1 in 6 children - almost 14% just in the USA - will be diagnosed with a developmental disability - and that was 2008. That in 2008, 1 in 68 - and possibly more - will be diagnosed with ASD. 10 years on, they find that 1 in 45 will be diagnosed ASD. Statistics show that it's going to get worse.

So what are the possible causes? And what is going to happen in the next 10 years, 20 years? What is going on? Why is it bad to ask that question?

[Weedy1]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Pesticides like lead and arsenic were used for decades starting from the 1890's - around the same time that polio started becoming a problem - and it just got worse. We now know the effects of lead and arsenic on our bodies - especially our immune systems. The toxic effects of lead were long known by the 1920's. Were heavy metals at least partly responsible for polio having the ability to invade our nervous systems?

I'd put my money on the increased capacity of transportation systems for getting around the world during the 1st world war having more of an impact on the spread of worldwide diseases and viruses than anything else.

The facts:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3145127/

[CaberTosser]

Silver, try to search your entire post history and bring up an example of when you yielded to anyone in a debate over anything. I have personally yielded in debates when I saw merit in the counterpoint to the thoughts I was harbouring pre-debate. I have personally been ill-informed or misinformed on occasion, and sometimes admittedly I have been simply reactionary too on topics that get to me emotionally. I have even posted public apologies when I had stepped over the line in some cases, but that’s not the case here today. I have never once seen you do such a thing as yield in debate to someone better informed than yourself on the topic du jour, I’ve not seen you allow that others have a valid point, or even give professionals in the field of the debate any credence. I have witnessed you debate AO members whom I’ve personally met who had not revealed their occupations in the debate and I knew they knew more on the topic at hand yet they didn’t reveal their credentials. Do you know why? It’s because you’d simply shout them down anyways. They know that. Some were in the medical field, some were serving or retired police officers so that’s another reason for them staying incognito as they don’t need the abuse that info might attract from some folks. I was not about to out them but as a fly on the wall it is quite revealing as to that pattern.

One thing that is a sold fact is that nobody knows everything, but you are convinced that you do and will post ad nauseum until others leave the discussion simply due to its futility. That’s not winning a debate, it’s simply being obstinate. Contemplate that for a while before falling into a default “I’m right, you’re wrong, check your facts” rant. If you’re positive that you’re always right about everything, that in itself is evidence that you’re not.

I’ll be withdrawing from this thread because I already know the established pattern it’s running, it might as well be on rails. Or off the rails I suppose is just as accurate an analogy....

[DisplacedCaper]

I don’t blame the mistrust of the government at all. When it comes to finances, where they spend our money, who and how they tax, and hardline stances on topics that we all know aren’t because they’re passionate, but because they’re pandering for votes, sure thing they’re sneaky.
But denying your kid, and others kids the opportunity to not get sick because your paranoid is the reason the government even has to consider making it mandatory.
They are self serving charismatic egotistical thieves, not evil super villains trying to infect the world.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

Silver, try to search your entire post history and bring up an example of when you yielded to anyone in a debate over anything. I have personally yielded in debates when I saw merit in the counterpoint to the thoughts I was harbouring pre-debate. I have personally been ill-informed or misinformed on occasion, and sometimes admittedly I have been simply reactionary too on topics that get to me emotionally. I have even posted public apologies when I had stepped over the line in some cases, but that’s not the case here today. I have never once seen you do such a thing as yield in debate to someone better informed than yourself on the topic du jour, I’ve not seen you allow that others have a valid point, or even give professionals in the field of the debate any credence. I have witnessed you debate AO members whom I’ve personally met who had not revealed their occupations in the debate and I knew they knew more on the topic at hand yet they didn’t reveal their credentials. Do you know why? It’s because you’d simply shout them down anyways. They know that. Some were in the medical field, some were serving or retired police officers so that’s another reason for them staying incognito as they don’t need the abuse that info might attract from some folks. I was not about to out them but as a fly on the wall it is quite revealing as to that pattern.

One thing that is a sold fact is that nobody knows everything, but you are convinced that you do and will post ad nauseum until others leave the discussion simply due to its futility. That’s not winning a debate, it’s simply being obstinate. Contemplate that for a while before falling into a default “I’m right, you’re wrong, check your facts” rant. If you’re positive that you’re always right about everything, that in itself is evidence that you’re not.

I’ll be withdrawing from this thread because I already know the established pattern it’s running, it might as well be on rails. Or off the rails I suppose is just as accurate an analogy....

Caber, I have a history of asking questions, posting possibles - and posting facts. This isn't about right or wrong, this isn't about winning a debate. There are serious issues with the young population today, and it's disturbing to me.

I've posted information, asked simple questions in this thread. Not one of you have attempted to discuss any possibilities, all the provax crowd does is come back with is insult and ridicule.

Have a good day

[Digger1]

And truth be told, Caber, we still haven’t found any airplane parts at the Pentagon, or a reason why that other building happened to fall down far from the World Trade Center. Life’s great mysteries...

[Weedy1]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Not one of you have attempted to discuss any possibilities, all the provax crowd does is come back with is insult and ridicule.

Have a good day

You might want to go back and check post #47, no insult, no ridicule, listed a very good possibility, and provided the facts.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Weedy1

You might want to go back and check post #47, no insult, no ridicule, listed a very good possibility, and provided the facts.

You're right. I read the entire article and indeed, many facts. Transport was a big part of hte transmission of disease. However, it brings up some interesting points.

Black plague, killed millions. But up and disappeared like a fart in the wind. Plague is still around today, but nowhere near what it used to be. Flu - take spanish flu in the early 1900's - again killed millions but disappeared like a fart in the wind. Nobody knows where it came from. This is repeated in history over and over.

Were our immune systems compromised? Lead for example was used in plumbing for thousands of years, Many of these diseases were treated with heavy metals. It's suspected that more people died than was necessary. If you had a large family, one got infected with plague, then the entire family was locked up to face the same fate. They didn't know what caused plague at the time, didn't know how to treat it but they did what they had to do.

History is fascinating.

[silverdoctor]

here's an interesting piece of Alberta history. Catalo - cross between Buffalo and cattle, supposed to be immune to all disease that affect cattle. From Farmers Magazine, year 1920.

[SlightlyDistracting]

Originally Posted by Weedy1

Yes, that's why I posted an article just above your post that would have answered your question.

From the article:
Thimerosal was taken out of childhood vaccines in the United States in 2001.
Measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccines do not and never did contain thimerosal. Varicella (chickenpox), inactivated polio (IPV), and pneumococcal conjugate vaccines have also never contained thimerosal.
Influenza (flu) vaccines are currently available in both thimerosal-containing (for multi-dose vaccine vials) and thimerosal-free versions.

For a complete list of vaccines and their thimerosal content level, see the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Thimerosal in Vaccines page. This chart[PDF – 182 KB] shows vaccine ingredients sorted by vaccine.

Im not buying it. The H1N1 vaccine had staggering amounts of mercury in it. It was even stated on the label. Call me a conspiracy theorist or whatever you want. Ill call you just plain naive.

[Weedy1]

Originally Posted by SlightlyDistracting

Im not buying it. The H1N1 vaccine had staggering amounts of mercury in it. It was even stated on the label. Call me a conspiracy theorist or whatever you want. Ill call you just plain naive.

You're not buying what? I posted basically what you just said. Did you even read it?

AGAIN:

Influenza (flu) vaccines are currently available in both thimerosal-containing (for multi-dose vaccine vials) and thimerosal-free versions.

Here's the facts too:

https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Biolog.../UCM182401.pdf

Also, please explain how 24.5 mcg of mercury is a staggering amount? That's 24.5/1,000,000 of a gram. Fill me in on how that would affect you or your nervous system. Please provide details and facts.

[Unregistered user]

As a counter to the argument that kids these days have this and that ailment, in the old days they just died. I have 4 kids and 5 grandkids, I'm glad they have all had their shots.

[tirebob]

For the most part I trust mother nature to let my body sort itself out and grow stronger. I have received vaccines for the big stuff growing up but I am not a fan of the modern thought that every little illness and possible health eventuality needs to be vaccinated against.

Sad but true, the strong survive and spread their strong genes and healthy immune systems while the weaker do not. That is until the last few generations of people came around where now even the weak survive and also spead there genes. Survival of the fittest is a thing of the past now. We have moved onto everyone survives at all costs which could very well be our overall health downfall.

I am not saying don't protect yourself if you have a health issue that dictates you get a shot, but don't expect others who are otherwise healthy to want to inject themselves with this stuff just to protect the very few who are health compromised. That may sound cold hearted, but it is what it is...

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Weedy1

You're not buying what? I posted basically what you just said. Did you even read it?

AGAIN:

Influenza (flu) vaccines are currently available in both thimerosal-containing (for multi-dose vaccine vials) and thimerosal-free versions.

Here's the facts too:

https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Biolog.../UCM182401.pdf

Also, please explain how 24.5 mcg of mercury is a staggering amount? That's 24.5/1,000,000 of a gram. Fill me in on how that would affect you or your nervous system. Please provide details and facts.

I'll chomp on that one - here's a fact for you. Most people know that methylmercury is unsafe at even very low levels. That's the mercury you find in fish and such.

Thimerosal is ethylmercury. When I read stuff like this from our own governments - makes me nervous. The true effects of thimerosal has NEVER been studied. Read the entire link, it's interesting. If you don't read the entire page, feel free to read the first line of second paragraph ofthe quote.

This is from the Government of Canada. Public health agency.


https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...statement.html

Mercury in large concentrations or with sustained exposure is a known neurotoxin, primarily in its organic form, methylmercury, and a nephrotoxin in its inorganic form, consisting of salts containing mercury combined with chlorine, sulfur or oxygen(3). Almost all research into mercury toxicity has been conducted on methylmercury because it has been a major environmental contaminant, especially in the pulp and paper industry. The main concern in Canada has been methylmercury exposure from the ingestion of fish containing high levels of the neurotoxin, especially in northern communities near pulp and paper mills. In such communities, fish as a food source has been a concern because of the large amounts of mercury that may be consumed if contaminated fish is a staple in the diet.

By contrast, little is actually known about ethylmercury metabolism in humans, including whether it has the same potency as a neurotoxin, whether the blood concentration is ever significant and even whether it crosses the blood-brain barrier. It is presumed that the majority of ethylmercury metabolized from thimerosal is rapidly excreted in the stool. The risk, at best, can be described as theoretical. Although the numbers were small, one study(4) suggested that the serum half-life of ethylmercury in infants given thimerosal-containing vaccines was shorter than that suggested by work with methylmercury and did not seem to raise the blood concentrations of mercury above acceptable values. A more recent study(5) used infant monkeys to compare, in a limited way, the pharmacokinetic profiles of ethylmercury following exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccines and methylmercury following administration by nasogastric feeding tube. There were 17 animals in each group, and exposures were repeated at 0, 7, 14 and 21 days of age. The absorption and initial distribution of the two mercury compounds were similar. However, in comparison to methylmercury, ethylmercury was eliminated faster (half-life of 8.6 days versus 21.5 days for methylmercury), did not accumulate between doses, unlike methylmercury, and resulted in lower total brain mercury levels. The firmest conclusion to be drawn from these pharmacokinetic studies is that methylmercury and ethylmercury are handled very differently in the body and that safety limits regarding methylmercury cannot simply be extrapolated to ethylmercury.

But yet, they've been injecting ethylmercury into every arm and ass they can since the 1930's. It's now proven that ethylmercury crosses the blood brain barrier - look it up.

[TylerThomson]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

I'll chomp on that one - here's a fact for you. Most people know that methylmercury is unsafe at even very low levels. That's the mercury you find in fish and such.

Thimerosal is ethylmercury. When I read stuff like this from our own governments - makes me nervous. The true effects of thimerosal has NEVER been studied. Read the entire link, it's interesting. If you don't read the entire page, feel free to read the first line of second paragraph ofthe quote.

This is from the Government of Canada. Public health agency.


https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...statement.html



But yet, they've been injecting ethylmercury into every arm and ass they can since the 1930's. It's now proven that ethylmercury crosses the blood brain barrier - look it up.

Who cares? I take in more mercury from the fish I eat.

Look it up
Do the research