To Crossbow or not to crossbow - That is the question!

[honda450]

The way I see it..............

Do I bow hunt............NO

Do I crossbow hunt..........NO

Will I ever............NO

So I voted NO. Why fix something that ain't broke.

[RobinHood]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I would have to agree that mule deer, moose and likely elk will go on draw in many WMUs if crossbows are included. While many crossbow hunters will come from the ranks of current vertical bow hunters, there is bound to be a new influx of hunters into this season as well. More hunters means increased harvest.

When you suggest, “there is bound to be a new influx of hunters,”

You’re essentially conveying the simple fact that an "X" number of hunters, who have a hunting license, already will shift into another facet of hunting. But the number of “new" hunting licenses sold because of the crossbow inclusion, will be insignificant. The few new hunters would conceivably be sold to youngsters and people, which would already be getting involved with hunting because of a mentor. Ultimately the percentage increase of new hunters in the field will be the same as the annual average of new licenses purchased.

Originally Posted by RobinHood

When you suggest, “there is bound to be a new influx of hunters,”

You’re essentially conveying the simple fact that an "X" number of hunters, who have a hunting license, already will shift into another facet of hunting. But the number of “new" hunting licenses sold because of the crossbow inclusion, will be insignificant. The few new hunters would conceivably be sold to youngsters and people, which would already be getting involved with hunting because of a mentor. Ultimately the percentage increase of new hunters in the field will be the same as the annual average of new licenses purchased.

Please don't tell me what I'm conveying. I'm not sure I'd call any new additions to the hunting fraturnity insignificant and I do believe that the inclusion of crossbows would account for a small percentage of new hunters but I agree that the large majority would come from the ranks of current hunters, both archery and rifle. The percentage increase of new hunters in the field would be very small IMHO but not non existent.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by SLH

You stating that archery going on draw due to the inclusion of xbows is low is just your opinion, the fact that the question itself states that this is a possibility suggests to me that it is a big enough concern to the managers that it is bigger than what you would suggest. The other point to this is that they will act on numbers of hunters coupled with harvest rates. It will only take one year and once on a draw it will be done. They will stay regardless of hunter numbers and harvest results.

I also believe that this arguement that it will up the number of new hunters, young hunters and disabled hunters is somewhat overblown. I know a great deal of young (12 year olds) hunters that can draw a bow. If they can't then maybe they'll just have to wait another year and stick with a rifle or xbow in the general season. I don't see what's wrong with that. Disabled hunters already have the oppurtunity to use the thing. As for new hunters if they want to hunt they will likely be just as enthusiastic in the rifle season as the bow season.

Finally, your last sentence is invalid, if that is what people want they already have that oppurtunity buy a xbow and go hunting with it.

My opinion is that the equipment is substantially different than what the orginal season was set up for and thus it doesn't belong there.

The potential downside of inclusion of the weapon in the season far out weighs the potential benefits and the quality of the season will be reduced by the inclusion of this weapon.

All well thought out and valid points.

SRD had no other option but to put the information about the possibility of some species going to draw on there because it could happen. It's possible that everyone will run out and buy a crossbow and that there will be a very high success rate. I personally don't think that it will happen but, no one can know for sure.

IMO The newest policy for approving the use of a crossbow is outrageous. I've posted it further back on this thread but it basically says that you have to be paralyzed in one arm or have one arm missing. Are you kidding me!!! I've received numerous pm's from people that have everything from chronic arthritis to having had major muscle groups removed from their arm that can't get approval to use a crossbow. Lord help you if you are ever permanently injured and can't draw a compound bow anymore because you're SOL unless one arm is paralyzed or amputated.

Indeed, crossbows are allowed to be used during rifle season. I think that it's safe to say that the conditions for bowhunting are somewhat less favorable in November than they are in September and October. I think that point should be excluded from the debate purely because of that reason.

At the end of the day, most people will vote for what is best for themselves. I totally understand the opposition by allot of people in the bowhunting community, which I consider myself a part of. I can't judge bowhunters for wanting to keep what they have anymore than I can judge rifle hunters for wanting bowhunters to share in draws. Me, I chose yes because I think that it's good for the sport of hunting.

[BigJon]

has anyone that is registered on the albertarelm still not received the email survey?

Originally Posted by BigJon

has anyone that is registered on the albertarelm still not received the email survey?

Already a thread about it

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=77787

[Rocks]

[QUOTE=HunterDave;772907]

Indeed, crossbows are allowed to be used during rifle season. I think that it's safe to say that the conditions for bowhunting are somewhat less favorable in November than they are in September and October. I think that point should be excluded from the debate purely because of that reason.

QUOTE]

Where I live there is a general season that opens Aug 25 (for one species) with a couple more species opening in early September. If you want to, you can hunt every day from Aug 25 to Nov 30 with a crossbow, here.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

I'm trying to understand the " yes " guys here!

How does adding draws to the archery season, increase hunters and hunting oppoturnity . ????

Hey, I was talking about this while enjoying a beer last night. And the pizza was the Tops!

In the end, if the inclusion of crossbows puts Archery seasons on draw, the net result is a LOSS of hunter opportunity. In addition, greater hunting pressure will likely be experienced in the fewer remaining general seasons at that time of year, reducing the hunting quality (increased hunter density, lower animal populations) in these areas.

Comparing crossbow hunting data from WT deer in the mid-west and eastern US/Canada is not a good indicator of how these changes could effect us here in Alberta. If we were only talking about hunting WT, then maybe this data would be applicable. I think we need to look at the Western US to see the effects of draw seasons and limited general seasons. Why hunters would vote to go down this slippery slope?


I still feel that ALL primitive weapons need to be recognized, let's not lose our right to hunt with the Atlatl.

Here is a new hunting tool to me, the Sling Bow. Watch out grouse!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6LxK...eature=related

[Stinky Coyote]

the sling bow, man i wish that guy was around when i was 14, dang, good idea about using old tent poles for folding arrows too, likely doable, nice one WB, i sent it to the 13 yr old that got his first deer with me this year, he'll be all over that one!

as far as the west type game vs eastern deer etc., whatever, there is likely a lot of room for this tool to be better utilized in Alberta, people still talking as if everyone and dog is going to get into it and flood Alberta with guys running around with crossbows....just not going to happen like that

[gallery]

I finished the survey last night and answered the question on the crossbow inclusion. I answered no but I do have some mixed feelings on it. I know that it will bring in more hunters into archery hunting and some of them might be my daughters as I know they cannot pull a bow. (I have turned down my bow to 40 pound and no way) So that would be nice to share more days out in the field with them. The one thing that would be bad in my opinion is if there are more hunters and they decide to put archery on a draw system it would limit my ability to hunt with my bow anywhere in the province. That is why I enjoy archery because it gives me more freedom to enjoy hunting all over and I would hate to see that taken away with a draw system. Maybe they could have a draw for general archery but I know that would not happen

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I would have to agree that mule deer, moose and likely elk will go on draw in many WMUs if crossbows are included. While many crossbow hunters will come from the ranks of current vertical bow hunters, there is bound to be a new influx of hunters into this season as well. More hunters means increased harvest.

I disagree.
I think most bow hunters will remain bow hunters. As stated earlier I ''invested'' and practiced and trained to be a bow hunter. I won't change...and I think that this would be the same with most.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

All well thought out and valid points.

SRD had no other option but to put the information about the possibility of some species going to draw on there because it could happen. It's possible that everyone will run out and buy a crossbow and that there will be a very high success rate. I personally don't think that it will happen but, no one can know for sure.

IMO The newest policy for approving the use of a crossbow is outrageous. I've posted it further back on this thread but it basically says that you have to be paralyzed in one arm or have one arm missing. Are you kidding me!!! I've received numerous pm's from people that have everything from chronic arthritis to having had major muscle groups removed from their arm that can't get approval to use a crossbow. Lord help you if you are ever permanently injured and can't draw a compound bow anymore because you're SOL unless one arm is paralyzed or amputated.

Indeed, crossbows are allowed to be used during rifle season. I think that it's safe to say that the conditions for bowhunting are somewhat less favorable in November than they are in September and October. I think that point should be excluded from the debate purely because of that reason.

At the end of the day, most people will vote for what is best for themselves. I totally understand the opposition by allot of people in the bowhunting community, which I consider myself a part of. I can't judge bowhunters for wanting to keep what they have anymore than I can judge rifle hunters for wanting bowhunters to share in draws. Me, I chose yes because I think that it's good for the sport of hunting.

MAybe you should concentrate your obvious energy about this issue towards changing the requirements for ''disabled hunters'' as that seems to come up often enough.
NO bow hunter has an objection to a person who can't draw a bow to be allowed to use a x-bow.

[SLH]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

All well thought out and valid points.

SRD had no other option but to put the information about the possibility of some species going to draw on there because it could happen. It's possible that everyone will run out and buy a crossbow and that there will be a very high success rate. I personally don't think that it will happen but, no one can know for sure.

IMO The newest policy for approving the use of a crossbow is outrageous. I've posted it further back on this thread but it basically says that you have to be paralyzed in one arm or have one arm missing. Are you kidding me!!! I've received numerous pm's from people that have everything from chronic arthritis to having had major muscle groups removed from their arm that can't get approval to use a crossbow. Lord help you if you are ever permanently injured and can't draw a compound bow anymore because you're SOL unless one arm is paralyzed or amputated.

Indeed, crossbows are allowed to be used during rifle season. I think that it's safe to say that the conditions for bowhunting are somewhat less favorable in November than they are in September and October. I think that point should be excluded from the debate purely because of that reason.

At the end of the day, most people will vote for what is best for themselves. I totally understand the opposition by allot of people in the bowhunting community, which I consider myself a part of. I can't judge bowhunters for wanting to keep what they have anymore than I can judge rifle hunters for wanting bowhunters to share in draws. Me, I chose yes because I think that it's good for the sport of hunting.

Fair enough I've appreciated your debate as well.

Two quick points, I've only met one hunter that told me he had a xbow permit think he was in a wheel chair (he was sitting down when I met him) but it looked like he could use his arms pretty well the way he was hoisting the pints (that might also be the source of his permit). But your point is taken.

Second I know there have been more times at the end of November sitting on a scrape that I would have had a much better chance at a WT than I ever had in Sept. and I've caught some pretty stupid Muley's that came right at me in rifle season that were non existent in Sept.

Have a great day!

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

I disagree.
I think most bow hunters will remain bow hunters. As stated earlier I ''invested'' and practiced and trained to be a bow hunter. I won't change...and I think that this would be the same with most.

You could very well be right but from what I've seen in the form of anecdotal evidence from other jurisdictions that recently changed...it wasn't the case. I totally respect that you won't change and I'm not sure the majority of bow hunters will "change" but if what's happening elsewhere happens here, a large number of bowhunters will get into crossbows in addition to their vertical bows....basically becoming two bow hunters. I can't see it being that different here in Alberta but you never know.

[Sputnik]

Did my survey, but have not been on here for a bit, and have not read all the responses, but having been involved in like discussions on this same board, I can imagine the answers and comments are mirrored in this thread as well.

I am glad to see the SRD took a hand in this and offered all registered and active hunters an opportunity to voice their opinion by answering a straight forward question.

I have hunted with both bow and rifle.

I voted yes to the survey.

If for no other reason than I see it as another opportunity to hunt and buy more toys.

The minor satisfaction I get from watching the elitist freaks warp out on this question is just a plus.

[ex811]

X2 Sputnik
Now if the Airport Authority would only allow us to hunt at the airport (sorry, private joke)

[garand]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Hey, I was talking about this while enjoying a beer last night. And the pizza was the Tops!

In the end, if the inclusion of crossbows puts Archery seasons on draw, the net result is a LOSS of hunter opportunity. In addition, greater hunting pressure will likely be experienced in the fewer remaining general seasons at that time of year, reducing the hunting quality (increased hunter density, lower animal populations) in these areas.

Comparing crossbow hunting data from WT deer in the mid-west and eastern US/Canada is not a good indicator of how these changes could effect us here in Alberta. If we were only talking about hunting WT, then maybe this data would be applicable. I think we need to look at the Western US to see the effects of draw seasons and limited general seasons. Why hunters would vote to go down this slippery slope?


I still feel that ALL primitive weapons need to be recognized, let's not lose our right to hunt with the Atlatl.

Here is a new hunting tool to me, the Sling Bow. Watch out grouse!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6LxK...eature=related

makes a lot of sense to me WB

[CNP]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

there has been all the sloid info you could absorb in several of these threads. the tool has been a part of archery seasons for over 30 years in other parts of north america, so there woukld be no new ground broken here. the results are clear....a crossbow is no more effective at killing game than a vertical bow. by all means if you are late to this topic, go back through all the threads on it. there is a ton of info to be learned if you wish to.

Yes. The results are clear. A minority of countries, states and provinces allow the unrestricted use of crossbow for hunting. Minority. But in your mind that spells the results are clear...no new ground broken...get on with it. A crossbow is not more effective at killing game (laughable statement)? Which one of these rifles is more effective at killing game?

or



Which of these:



or


In your mind they are all equal. But in reality.........................

[arcticgrayling]

Originally Posted by Sputnik

I am glad to see the SRD took a hand in this and offered all registered and active hunters an opportunity to voice their opinion by answering a straight forward question.

Not sure this statement is true. Pretty sure it only went to hunters who use the relm website. This would leave out a significant amount of hunters.

[bb356]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Yes. The results are clear. A minority of countries, states and provinces allow the unrestricted use of crossbow for hunting. Minority. But in your mind that spells the results are clear...no new ground broken...get on with it. A crossbow is not more effective at killing game (laughable statement)? Which one of these rifles is more effective at killing game?

or



Which of these:



or


In your mind they are all equal. But in reality.........................

its not the tool ! its the person using it !

[sonny42]

My vote would be no, Cross-bows should remain in the rifle season.
Look at the PSE, Tac15I, Designed to fit on any AR-15 receiver, the TAC 15I shoots 412ftp,s,,shoots 4 inch groups at 100 yds.
For these reasons they should not be included in archery season.

[Unregistered user]

Just about every response to this thread is selfish in nature. The bottom line is simply the ACA wants to fatten ITS bottom line. Not like the bird watchers or any other greeny weenies are giving them a thin dime. United (as hunters)we stand.

[Hooter]

Well, I have now read 621 posts on this topic over the past 3 days and I feel like I want to put my $0.02 in as well.

I have read many posts that I agree with, many that I disagree with, and some that have provoked some thought. After all this I do not agree that crossbows and vertical bows can be considered equal. I have heard the agruement that crossbows and vertical bows have similar success rates (I have no data to prove or disprove this), or that it takes just as much movement to raise a crossbow as it does to draw a vertical bow. I have not hunted with a crossbow, however I have done a significant amount of vertical bowhunting and I have had several situations where either the motion of drawing my bow, or having to let my bow down caused the animal to flee. I have also had situations where I was simply too cold and stiff to draw my bow smoothly which also resulted in a missed opportunity. And finally, just this past season, I missed shooting my first bull elk becasue when I drew back the broadhead hit the magnet used to turn on my lighted nock which caused my arrow to kick to the side and miss the elk by 5 feet. My point here is that there are more "factors" with using a vertical bow that can cause a missed opportunity versus a crossbow. Plain and simple.

I have to admit, though, the part that bothers me most is the idea or possibility that archery tags could go on a draw. I enjoy hunting elk and deer with my bow each year, and I would be disappointed if this opportunity were to vanish. I have to totally disagree with all the folks that say there would be an increase in hunting opportunities because with more people in the field there will inevitably be more animals harvested, and, therefore, the number of tags issued each season will have to be reduced. To me it's just simple math.

I want the sport of hunting to be around for my kids, and as such I want the best thing for the sport as a whole, so if I can be convinced that allowing crossbows would be best for the sport then I would accept it, but it would take a lot of convincing......

I'm trying my best to be open minded here, but for now I'm a NO if and when I get my survey.

-Trevor

[Mountain Guy]

Hunter Dave should be chiming in soon to explain that there's no advantage to the x-bow.
But...funny as it sounds.. to be honest, I've learned some from him that leads me to think that there may not be a big advantage with the x-bow.
But he'll never convince me that an x-bow isn't easier to use.
Maybe no more effective...but definately easier.
No one can argue that.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by arcticgrayling

Not sure this statement is true. Pretty sure it only went to hunters who use the relm website. This would leave out a significant amount of hunters.

x2 That's my understanding as well. It's an email survey so they'd need your email address anyway.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Hunter Dave should be chiming in soon to explain that there's no advantage to the x-bow.
But...funny as it sounds.. to be honest, I've learned some from him that leads me to think that there may not be a big advantage with the x-bow.
But he'll never convince me that an x-bow isn't easier to use.
Maybe no more effective...but definately easier.
No one can argue that.

Alright! Who hijacked Mountain Guy's AO account?

Well thank you Mountain Guy!

Again we are in agreement on something (I think that that's twice now). All that I've been saying all along is that the capabilities of both tools are relatively the same and yes, I will admit that learning the crossbow and becoming proficient with a crossbow is easier, including having to draw a compound bow before shooting as opposed to not having to with a crossbow. Instead of using the word "easier" I've been saying "less effort" to learn and use a crossbow. That's close enough in my books.

Hopefully some other people have changed their perceptions about the strengths and limitations of crossbows while reading this thread. Then they can be smart like you and me!

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Hunter Dave should be chiming in soon to explain that there's no advantage to the x-bow.
But...funny as it sounds.. to be honest, I've learned some from him that leads me to think that there may not be a big advantage with the x-bow.
But he'll never convince me that an x-bow isn't easier to use.
Maybe no more effective...but definately easier.
No one can argue that.

Effectiveness is not the comparative to study. A mortal wound from a bullet or arrow or bolt all result in death. Performance is the measurement that is most important. Getting your arrow onto your quarry is the objective and how does a crossbow perform at doing that as compared to a bow. Like you say, it must be easier (advantageous) to use a xbow because persons with disabilities are permitted to use it and it is suggested that the infirm or children could use it......notwithstanding that these people wouldn't be able to operate the crossbow by themselves in most cases (operate - as in cocking or de-cocking it).

[Magnet]

Who cares. If you want to use a crossbow, use one. It's still harder to shoot a deer with a crossbow than a rifle.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Effectiveness is not the comparative to study. A mortal wound from a bullet or arrow or bolt all result in death. Performance is the measurement that is most important. Getting your arrow onto your quarry is the objective and how does a crossbow perform at doing that as compared to a bow. Like you say, it must be easier (advantageous) to use a xbow because persons with disabilities are permitted to use it and it is suggested that the infirm or children could use it......notwithstanding that these people wouldn't be able to operate the crossbow by themselves in most cases (operate - as in cocking or de-cocking it).

Wouldn't you say that personal skill and ability is more important than the performance of the tool that you are using to hunt with?

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Magnet

Who cares. If you want to use a crossbow, use one. It's still harder to shoot a deer with a crossbow than a rifle.

C'mon Magnet! Lighten up would ya?