To Crossbow or not to crossbow - That is the question!

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

HD, I've said it before on this thread.
Take away the compound....I'm way more in favor of that then the opposite ( allowing x-bows in )
If the arguement now was that compounds don't belong and that came to be.......I'd go out and buy a recurve.

The End.

Fair enough.

[thebuckshow]

I voted "Yes" to include crossbows. My uncle owns one, and if they are allowed then him and I can hunt the bow season together and he doesn't have to sit at home. That is my reason for my decision.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by thebuckshow

I voted "Yes" to include crossbows. My uncle owns one, and if they are allowed then him and I can hunt the bow season together and he doesn't have to sit at home. That is my reason for my decision.

Are the archery police making him ''sit at home'' ?
Who says he has to sit at home??

[thebuckshow]

He royally sucks with a bow. His eyes and a bow site just don't mix. Don't ask why because I don't know. He is dead-eye-dick with his crossbow, but put a bow in his hands and he loses all mental capacity.
And yeah, yeah, yeah "He should practice." "It takes time to learn." Well he is old and has had it in his mind for 25 years that he can't do it, so he just can't.
All I'm saying is if they allow them, I will finally have a good bow hunting partner. And for that, I am very excited.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

. I figure that the system was already beat once with the inclusion of compound bows so natural progression should dictate that crossbows are the next logical step in the natural progression in the archery only season.

That's my deep thought for today.

Or maybe... that's the perfect example of why Xbows shouldn't be allowed. The compound has made tradional bows almost extinct, perhaps the natural progression will do the same to compounds, and maybe diminish the use of tradional bows completely, if they are accepted.

And if you still believe that natural progression is the way, what comes after the xbow?????


please don't say semi auto xbows...lol

[walking buffalo]

Three un-rushed shots with a crossbow in under 3 minutes, at 100 yards.

Video, click "qui" http://cacciaebalestra.altervista.org/video/V-bar.wmv

More pics and video info here.

http://www.cacciaebalestra.altervist...stsfrecce.html

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Or maybe... that's the perfect example of why Xbows shouldn't be allowed. The compound has made tradional bows almost extinct, perhaps the natural progression will do the same to compounds, and maybe diminish the use of tradional bows completely, if they are accepted.

And if you still believe that natural progression is the way, what comes after the xbow?????


please don't say semi auto xbows...lol

Maybe, but back in the day when all bowhunters were using a longbow it must have been quite something to include compound bows with wheels, let-offs, releases, etc into the mix...lol! I'll bet that the arguments back then would've sounded similar to what we're hearing today about the inclusion of crossbows.

In the future all string propelled bows will be replaced with bows that propel projectiles with the use of compressed air and broadheads that have a blunt head that produces a strong electrical charge on impact. This will immobilize the animal and when it drops you walk up and shoot it with the sidearm of your choice.

Compound bowhunters will of course chose the traditional argon gas as a propellant over the unconventional laughing gas that the crossbow hunters will be using.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Three un-rushed shots with a crossbow in under 3 minutes, at 100 yards.

Video, click "qui" http://cacciaebalestra.altervista.org/video/V-bar.wmv

More pics and video info here.

http://www.cacciaebalestra.altervist...stsfrecce.html

Gosh these examples are tiresome. Just like rifles, compound bows or crossbows not everyone was created equal when it comes to ability. I've watched people routinely pull off rifle shots that I'd never attempt. The same goes with bows. So what?

[packhuntr]

This has turned into a sad joke.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

This has turned into a sad joke.

You are soooo right!

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

This has turned into a sad joke.

X3

Actually the only non traditional modern bow out there is the Compound bow,an invention that came along about 40yrs ago? !

The Crossbow has been around for 2000 yrs
I looked into my crystal ball and noticed that the majority of the people arguing against the use of the crossbow ,have never held one in their hands ,much less shot one.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

X3

I looked into my crystal ball and noticed that the majority of the people arguing against the use of the crossbow ,have never held one in their hands ,much less shot one.

Much like the majority of people that are voting yes or are indifferent to the inclusion of crossbows have never bowhunted,never held a bow,much less shot one,nor do they have a clue what is involved in bowhunting successfully.They only see two weapons that launch pointy sticks by means of stored energy in limbs and make no distinction between the two.
Ask any REAL bowhunter if they feel that using a crossgun would give them a distinct advantage over hand drawn bows in many,many real world hunting situations,and the answer is without doubt a resounding yes.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by grinr

Much like the majority of people that are voting yes or are indifferent to the inclusion of crossbows have never bowhunted,never held a bow,much less shot one,nor do they have a clue what is involved in bowhunting successfully.They only see two weapons that launch pointy sticks by means of stored energy in limbs and make no distinction between the two.
Ask any REAL bowhunter if they feel that using a crossgun would give them a distinct advantage over hand drawn bows in many,many real world hunting situations,and the answer is without doubt a resounding yes.

Absolutely ! The compound bow gives a distinct advantage over a longbow and that is why most "bowhunters" use a compound bow , I am sure,even after all your bluster ,and yelling in protest , you will be at the front of the line if the Crossbow is sanctioned as hunting bow.

Oh and by the way ,calling it a "crossgun" doesn't make it a gun (except perhaps in your narrow mind)it's still a bow .

Originally Posted by packhuntr

This has turned into a sad joke.

Sadly, you are correct pack.

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by grinr

LMAO,ya know it never ceases to amaze me the striking similairities between crossgunners and in-liners when it comes to trying to justify their muscling their way into lengthier seasons that were established to offset the disadvantages of hunting with less efficient equipment.It's like"Gee guys,we really like the idea of extra hunting opportunities and longer seasons,but we don't have the desire,skill,or dedication to use the prescribed equipment,so we think you should just simply allow us to use our techy toys and stfu and stop whining,cuz ya know a bow is a bow and a ML is a ML and bllah,blah,blah...."

GET OVER IT!!The same opportunities and lengthier seasons are available to anybody that wants to take the time to learn to become proficient with the prescribed equipment...what's stopping ya?


Here's an analogy for ya.Why don't all you x-bow wannabe bowhunters hop on an eastbound plane and visit any of the famous Atlantic Salmon rivers on the east coast.Now when you get there,you can explain to the provincial wardens and DFO how you demand to use spinning rods,baitcasters,crankbaits and casting spoons,3 pronged hooks,spinners and worms and whatever other gear you think should be allowed,because learning to cast a flyrod is just too damn hard and you don't have the time,dedication or skill to cast an unweighted fly to rising salmon,and besides,a fishing rod is a rod is a rod so what's the damn difference.LOL...lemme know how ya make out with that.

Another " archer elitist" has apparently come on board! ha, ha, ha, ha ha.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Absolutely ! The compound bow gives a distinct I am sure,even after all your bluster ,and yelling in protest , you will be at the front of the line if the Crossbow is sanctioned as hunting bow.

Not in this lifetime bud.

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Oh and by the way ,calling it a "crossgun" doesn't make it a gun (except perhaps in your narrow mind)it's still a bow .

I beg to differ.Given the cocked and loaded,ready to fire instantly capabilities of a crossgun,effective range of 50 yards give or take with minimal practice,complete lack of game-alerting drawing movement,I'd liken hunting with a crossgun as alot more similair to using a smoothbore,single shot 12ga than it is to hunting with a bow.I think alot of x-bow advocates make the mistake of assuming all bowhunting is done from trees or ground blinds where there aren't quite as many advantages to using an x-bow.Personally,I do alot of on the ground,spot & stalk/stillhunting in big woods habitat,at least as much or more than I do sitting in a tree.Anybody that's done any amount of this type of hunting could surely appreciate the capability of being able to raise,aim and fire instantly when the narrow window of opportunity presents itself.Try getting a shot off with a compound bow at a wary WT in the woods,from the ground.....not so easy.I've taken several dozen WTs on the ground,in the woods,with rifles,MLs,shotguns,and bows,many of them well within the effective range (<50 yards)of a crossgun.I have every reason to beleive that I could have taken the majority of those firearms deer just as easily with an x-bow.....not so with a compound,that's just the way it is.Even from a treestand,a compound needs to be drawn undetected in the presence of game,not so with an x-bow,and a good many shot opportunities are blown when deer catch bowhunters moving .The advantages of x-bows in my not so humble opinion afford the hunter at least 3X the shot opportunities depending on the style of hunting you do,many more if you regularily hunt on the ground,stalking/stillhunting etc.Orrrr...to put it another way,stillhunting/stalking with a bow...any hand drawn,vertical bow,whether it be a compound,recurve,longbow or wutever,is at least 3X harder than hunting with an x-bow.In fact,a hunter using a recurve/longbow that shoots instinctively with fingers actually has the advantage over a compound/release shooter in most stillhunting situations.

If you don't get that,you'll probly NEVER get it,and most likely you really don't have enough real world deer hunting experience for me to be wasting my breath on you,so just go back to your Scentloked ground blind and wait for a deer to stroll by in front of your scoped crossgun or rifle.

There are bowhunters,and then there are those that hunt with bows on occasion....and then there are boltgunners,which are neither.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by grinr

I beg to differ.Given the cocked and loaded,ready to fire instantly capabilities of a crossgun,effective range of 50 yards give or take with minimal practice,complete lack of game-alerting drawing movement,I'd liken hunting with a crossgun as alot more similair to using a smoothbore,single shot 12ga than it is to hunting with a bow.I think alot of x-bow advocates make the mistake of assuming all bowhunting is done from trees or ground blinds where there aren't quite as many advantages to using an x-bow.Personally,I do alot of on the ground,spot & stalk/stillhunting in big woods habitat,at least as much or more than I do sitting in a tree.Anybody that's done any amount of this type of hunting could surely appreciate the capability of being able to raise,aim and fire instantly when the narrow window of opportunity presents itself.Try getting a shot off with a compound bow at a wary WT in the woods,from the ground.....not so easy.I've taken several dozen WTs on the ground,in the woods,with rifles,MLs,shotguns,and bows,many of them well within the effective range (<50 yards)of a crossgun.I have every reason to beleive that I could have taken the majority of those firearms deer just as easily with an x-bow.....not so with a compound,that's just the way it is.Even from a treestand,a compound needs to be drawn undetected in the presence of game,not so with an x-bow,and a good many shot opportunities are blown when deer catch bowhunters moving .The advantages of x-bows in my not so humble opinion afford the hunter at least 3X the shot opportunities depending on the style of hunting you do,many more if you regularily hunt on the ground,stalking/stillhunting etc.Orrrr...to put it another way,stillhunting/stalking with a bow...any hand drawn,vertical bow,whether it be a compound,recurve,longbow or wutever,is at least 3X harder than hunting with an x-bow.In fact,a hunter using a recurve/longbow that shoots instinctively with fingers actually has the advantage over a compound/release shooter in most stillhunting situations.

If you don't get that,you'll probly NEVER get it,and most likely you really don't have enough real world deer hunting experience for me to be wasting my breath on you,so just go back to your Scentloked ground blind and wait for a deer to stroll by in front of your scoped crossgun or rifle.

There are bowhunters,and then there are those that hunt with bows on occasion....and then there are boltgunners,which are neither.

The advantages and limitations of crossbows has already been discussed at great length throughout this thread and allot of the myths about them have been addressed. It might be beneficial for you to read what has already been discussed. If you can get by your own personal bias, you may actually learn what the real (as opposed to imagined) advantages and limitations of a crossbow are.

[walking buffalo]

209,

I don't understand why you would dismiss the vid.

This example of the crossbow's effective range and accuracy can be used by either side of the debate.

I've expressed my concerns regarding the potential inclusion of crossbows into the Archery season, they have been based on maintaining hunting opportunity in General seasons.

For the discussion regarding whether Crossbows should be legally redfined as Archery equiptment, the video is worth watching.

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

209,

I don't understand why you would dismiss the vid.

This example of the crossbow's effective range and accuracy can be used by either side of the debate.

I've expressed my concerns regarding the potential inclusion of crossbows into the Archery season, they have been based on maintaining hunting opportunity in General seasons.

For the discussion regarding whether Crossbows should be legally redfined as Archery equiptment, the video is worth watching.

I think the point is WB, that I could post dozens of links to Youtube vids of guys performing hundred yard shots with compounds. They mean nothing other than one guy did it but some are attempting to categorize the entire weapon by one video. It ain't so just as the compound isn't a normal 100 yard weapon. But I'm guessing you already knew that......If you are going to use this one video as proof positive that the crossbow is a 100 yard weapon......to be fair, you'd need to come to the same conclusion about compounds. I ain't seen much of that going on.

[walking buffalo]

SH,

What's stopping anyone from posting vids of compounds or stickbows, or atlatls?

but some are attempting to categorize the entire weapon by one video.

I haven't stated an opinion on the vid, it is there for info. Viewers can draw their own conclusions. They can even research the topic further if desired.

The vid shows more about the use of a crossbow than just the target range and accuracy.

[Rocks]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

The advantages and limitations of crossbows has already been discussed at great length throughout this thread and allot of the myths about them have been addressed. It might be beneficial for you to read what has already been discussed. If you can get by your own personal bias, you may actually learn what the real (as opposed to imagined) advantages and limitations of a crossbow are.

I think i've read most of this thread, and one member has stated he can shoot 4" groups with his crossbow at 100 yards. That's hunting accuracy. I did not see any members say they can shoot 4" groups at 100 yards with their compounds.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by Rocks

I think i've read most of this thread, and one member has stated he can shoot 4" groups with his crossbow at 100 yards. That's hunting accuracy. I did not see any members say they can shoot 4" groups at 100 yards with their compounds.

I've been bowhunting just under 20 years and I'd be thrilled to consistantly shoot 4" groups with my compound at 50 yards,let alone 100.Meanwhile,a complete nube x-bowyer can walk out of the sporting goods store with a NIB,scoped x-bow,and if he has any kind of rifle experience at all,be shooting tight 50 yard groups in less than an hour and call himself a bowhunter?

Yep,that's just what our publicly scrutinized hunting sports need to enhance our image.....more out-of-the-box,instant bowhunters.

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

SH,

What's stopping anyone from posting vids of compounds or stickbows, or atlatls?



I haven't stated an opinion on the vid, it is there for info. Viewers can draw their own conclusions. They can even research the topic further if desired.

The vid shows more about the use of a crossbow than just the target range and accuracy.

That's why I said "some" As I said, I was sure you already knew better.

Originally Posted by grinr

I've been bowhunting just under 20 years and I'd be thrilled to consistantly shoot 4" groups with my compound at 50 yards,let alone 100.Meanwhile,a complete nube x-bowyer can walk out of the sporting goods store with a NIB,scoped x-bow,and if he has any kind of rifle experience at all,be shooting tight 50 yard groups in less than an hour and call himself a bowhunter?

:

So I'm still confused why the shorter learning curve is a bad thing. There is no mandatory bow hunter training/testing in this province so it would seem to me that a weaopon a nube can become proficient with in short order would be a desireable thing. This arguement that a weapon that a nube is less proficient with is more approprite has always baffled me. Let's face it.....a great many bowhunters only pick up there bows once a year...during the season...doesn't it make sense to use a weapon they are proficient with? It would be kind of like saying that scopes should not be allowed on rifles because they are too easily to learn to use or that flat shooting cartridges should be disallowed because they don't require the shooter to spend countless hours at the range learning to shoot longer ranges. What's more important in hunting, the difficulty or the humane kill?

Originally Posted by Rocks

I think i've read most of this thread, and one member has stated he can shoot 4" groups with his crossbow at 100 yards. That's hunting accuracy. I did not see any members say they can shoot 4" groups at 100 yards with their compounds.

I think the fact that only one member has claimed it should speak volumes. I've never, nor would I attempt a shot over 50 yards with my crossbow, about the same distance I'm comfortable with my compound. I've heard many more members on this site that shoot crossbows agree with my assessment and not the other member. Look through the thread in the archery section about how far you will shoot and you'll see several people are comfortable with their compounds at extreme ranges. Lots of talk about 80 yard shots.

This guy makes 100 yard shots with a compound sound pretty simple.... http://www.ehow.com/how_6362324_shoo...distances.html

There are going to be exceptions to every rule and you can't very well cherry pick the ones that support your point of view and discount the ones that don't.

[DAVE]

[. Look through the thread in the archery section about how far you will shoot and you'll see several people are comfortable with their compounds at extreme ranges. Lots of talk about 80 yard shots.[/QUOTE]

X2 Good point!

[grinr]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

So I'm still confused why the shorter learning curve is a bad thing. There is no mandatory bow hunter training/testing in this province so it would seem to me that a weaopon a nube can become proficient with in short order would be a desireable thing. This arguement that a weapon that a nube is less proficient with is more approprite has always baffled me. Let's face it.....a great many bowhunters only pick up there bows once a year...during the season...doesn't it make sense to use a weapon they are proficient with? It would be kind of like saying that scopes should not be allowed on rifles because they are too easily to learn to use or that flat shooting cartridges should be disallowed because they don't require the shooter to spend countless hours at the range learning to shoot longer ranges. What's more important in hunting, the difficulty or the humane kill?

For one thing,there's alot more to bowhunting than just being able to hit a 3" bullseye at 40 yards,things that can't be learned in an hour or two in the backyard.

What's more important in hunting, the difficulty or the humane kill?

In terms of why bowhunters have a lengthier season to begin with....the difficulty.It's the very reason why bow seasons are normally lengthier and earlier than general firearms seasons almost everywhere they exist,in order to have a reasonable chance at harvesting less pressured game.Take away the difficulty factor,(by allowing x-bows)and the need for a longer,earlier season is moot.Might as well just have anything goes,any weapon you choose seasons.That's the thing that x-bow toting,wannabe "bowhunters" don't seem to get.....it's supposed to be more difficult.They LOVE the idea of a longer season....sure,who wouldn't....but at the same time,they want it to be easy and be able to cheat with an easier to use weapon.....much the same as in-liners like to cry foul when they are excluded from traditional ML seasons.

[jungleboy]

grinr....you're an amazing hunter I am sure , but just because another hunter disagrees with you does not make them a bad hunter or inexperienced . Hunters with your narrow minded attitude are bad for the sport in general ,but i'm sure you don't care about the sport other than what you can personally gain from it .

Pull Your Head Out O your Azzz

Originally Posted by grinr

For one thing,there's alot more to bowhunting than just being able to hit a 3" bullseye at 40 yards,things that can't be learned in an hour or two in the backyard.





In terms of why bowhunters have a lengthier season to begin with....the difficulty.It's the very reason why bow seasons are normally lengthier and earlier than general firearms seasons almost everywhere they exist,in order to have a reasonable chance at harvesting less pressured game.Take away the difficulty factor,(by allowing x-bows)and the need for a longer,earlier season is moot.Might as well just have anything goes,any weapon you choose seasons.That's the thing that x-bow toting,wannabe "bowhunters" don't seem to get.....it's supposed to be more difficult.They LOVE the idea of a longer season....sure,who wouldn't....but at the same time,they want it to be easy and be able to cheat with an easier to use weapon.....much the same as in-liners like to cry foul when they are excluded from traditional ML seasons.

I'm confused again....while I fully appreciate the difficulty in bow hunting comes from having to get near your prey without detection........you make it sound like not being proficient with a bow is okay as long as its vertical. I know many bowhunters that take pride in how well they shoot and they utilize aids to help them shoot more effectively to help ensure clean kills. I'm sure those aids greatly reduce the learning curve of shooting more accurately. I know they sure did for me. You seem to confusing many things here. I was only talking about the learning curve of becoming a proficient shot. That point seems to be lost on you or you just chose not to address it. Tell me again why the shorter learning curve to shooting accurately is a bad thing? Perhaps the use of pin sights, mechanical arrow rests and releases also make you a "fake" bow hunter?

[Sputnik]

I voted yes, mostly because I think Crossbows are archery equipment.

I bowhunt, but have never pulled the trigger on a crossbow. Seen them hanging on the wall in the shops.

So the other day I went down to WSS and picked one mounted with a scope off the rack.

I think it was an Excalibar.

There is no way I'm going to outfit a crossbow with all that kit, that thing was twice the weight of my heavest rifle, no wonder it had an extra handle on the front of the stock, talk about front end heavy.

For all you "bowhunters" who think you can free stand hold one of those things for any length of time, go give it a try. I'm not a peewee person, but to hold that thing steady for any length of time would take some substancial upper body strength. Considerably more that it takes to hold my bow at full draw.

I also tried the "undressed" version with open sights, considerably lighter, and I would consider hunting with one. But the sights used are the same as my bow and I don't think provide anymore advantage than my bowsights.

Another point for the "dedicated" bowhunters, how may of you use scopes on your bows?

Yup, shooting a bow takes more practice "out of the box", but once you are proficient all the advantages are taken away. Also I bet a good majority of you would have bought crossbows to start if they had been allowed for hunting when you took up the sport. I know I would have.

It's going to happen someday, might as well accept it.