Last Nights Waterton Prairie Fire

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Is Sage mountain not in the south castle?

It's in the Castle now. Get it? South, north, east, west, who really cares. It's not that big of an area... Some of us locals just refer to it as Westcastle or the Castle.

I'll let you know when East Castle is burning if it does as I stare at the whole Castle area out my front window.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

The last map of the fire I saw shows what looks like more than half the park has burned and heading east. Looks like it is into the Font creek valley and on Sage mountain in the Westcastle now as well.

Man that sucks, hopefully they can get the upper hand now with more favourable conditions, you guys getting rain or snow down there now?

[Pathfinder76]

Overcast and cool. Water bombers are parked this morning which seems odd.

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by chuck

Overcast and cool. Water bombers are parked this morning which seems odd.

Odd, why?

With the cloud cover, it's probably unsafe to fly visually.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

Odd, why?

With the cloud cover, it's probably unsafe to fly visually.

Well, I can see the tops of the mountains

[3blade]

Yeah I know it's CBC but have a look at the map at the top...as a former firefighter, this scares the **** outta me. The fact that no human lives have been lost is a testament to how well communication has worked, because when something is moving that fast especially overnight in mountainous terrain, an 'update' is "GTFO RIGHT NOW!" over the radio.

And Marty, as much as he is a good forum member, needs a good head slap for the original post. Controlled burns would never, and I mean NEVER, get approval in these conditions.

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4285153

Stuff can be replaced. Lives can not. Stay safe everyone.

[wildbill]

Originally Posted by landowner

This is wrong , it was not a controlled burn gone wrong . It was the original fire roaring down two valleys in perfect conditions. Parks did all they could but this fire just slapped them in the face. I know , I'm one of the people who ran from it in the middle of the night not knowing what I would return to. Yesterday was spent rounding up stray livestock, because fences were cut to save them . Ranchers who slipped behind RCMP barricades fought fire all day on their own , because our MD wouldn't send help or water trucks to put out large spot fires still threatening a major ranch. RCMP won't let us in , MD gives no help , we feel helpless and alone out there.

Maybe you should be exempt from land taxes for a few years (seeing as they are taking your money with no benefit to you, and considering how much money the MD makes from certain industries) , it's sad it was such a bungled mess, I feel for all of you down there as I have spent the majority of my adult life there. Like I said in a previous post, stuff and things can be replaced, you can't! Someone from the MD should have to answer for this, there should have been a contingency plan in place, they had plenty of warning. Stay strong!

[Looper]

Originally Posted by waterninja

On the news they are saying it was military planes taking off and landing under unsafe conditions that caused the fire's.

Military planes? At the Waterton fire?

Are you thinking of the huge grassfire started on CFB Sufield?

The OP was correct about a ranch burning up. The Rocking Heart is gone.

Looper

[Looper]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Yeah I know it's CBC but have a look at the map at the top...as a former firefighter, this scares the **** outta me. The fact that no human lives have been lost is a testament to how well communication has worked, because when something is moving that fast especially overnight in mountainous terrain, an 'update' is "GTFO RIGHT NOW!" over the radio.

And Marty, as much as he is a good forum member, needs a good head slap for the original post. Controlled burns would never, and I mean NEVER, get approval in these conditions.

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4285153

Stuff can be replaced. Lives can not. Stay safe everyone.

Dont slap Marty just yet. The spokesman guy on the news specifically mentioned "Aerial Ignitions" as a one of the methods used to combat this fire?

Looper

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Looper

Military planes? At the Waterton fire?

Are you thinking of the huge grassfire started on CFB Sufield?

The OP was correct about a ranch burning up. The Rocking Heart is gone.

Looper

Yes. But he didn't say "a" ranch.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by Looper

Dont slap Marty just yet. The spokesman guy on the news specifically mentioned "Aerial Ignitions" as a one of the methods used to combat this fire?

Looper

Same news idiots regularly refer to "machine guns"

It's always available and was certainly talked about, but the idea behind prescribed burns is that they get put out, one way or another. They also require a lot of oversight and approval, and resources at the site to make sure things go according to plan. none of which would have been forthcoming in those conditions. Now if someone went off the reservation, that's different and probably criminal, but suggesting that it was an approved burn that wiped out a ranch is asinine. If I'm wrong, me eating my words is the last of our worries.


But, such is the never ending catch 22 in wild land fire management. When they realize there's a problem, it's too late to do any prescribed burns. When there isn't a problem, no one does anything.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Looper

Military planes? At the Waterton fire?

Are you thinking of the huge grassfire started on CFB Sufield?

The OP was correct about a ranch burning up. The Rocking Heart is gone.

Looper

I must admit that I'm not sure exactly where the military caused fire happened. I just happened to hear about it on the news last night, but just briefly. It's getting hard to keep track of all the different news reports and info. blurbs about forest/grass fires this year.

[Looper]

Originally Posted by waterninja

I must admit that I'm not sure exactly where the military caused fire happened. I just happened to hear about it on the news last night, but just briefly. It's getting hard to keep track of all the different news reports and info. blurbs about forest/grass fires this year.

Yeah I'm pretty sure that was Suffield. It wasnt planes as they dont have an operating air strip I don think. The news this monring had a fellow from the base saying they "may" have caused it by detonating an unexploded ordinance.

Crazy thing to do given the conditions. Someone lost their home.


Looper

[Bushmaster]

Google Earth shows a strip there....almost 6000 ft. in length. But I don't know if its operational or not.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

It's in the Castle now. Get it? South, north, east, west, who really cares. It's not that big of an area... Some of us locals just refer to it as Westcastle or the Castle.

I'll let you know when East Castle is burning if it does as I stare at the whole Castle area out my front window.

Do don't have to get pi$$y about it, but if your going to give info you should get your facts straight. Oh and by the way haven't heard of east castle.

[Taco]

Updated map of the Kenow Fire, now estimated that the wildfire now covers an area of approximately 35,000 ha. This map has been created with GPS information and satellite imagery and gives a more accurate representation of the area impacted by the fire.




IMO this map kinda blows the back burn theory out of contention.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by Taco

Updated map of the Kenow Fire, now estimated that the wildfire now covers an area of approximately 35,000 ha. This map has been created with GPS information and satellite imagery and gives a more accurate representation of the area impacted by the fire.




IMO this map kinda blows the back burn theory out of contention.

Man every time I see the map it makes me sad, it looks to me that the 2 places that I liked going with the family and touring around are burned down, the Crandall campground and around red rock canyon, it'll be tougher visiting there for a couple years as there won't be much for places to stay. I wonder how it'll affect the park as it's half burned down now

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by 3blade

But, such is the never ending catch 22 in wild land fire management. When they realize there's a problem, it's too late to do any prescribed burns. When there isn't a problem, no one does anything.

Watertown and Castle area have been ripe for an burn for the last 10 years, same goes for most of the prairies and coulees. Prior to this year Controlled burns an a bit of logging would have went a long ways....... not much for Forrest management more like miss management.
What a hot, dry summer. Started raining in lethbridge tonight, I walked in the house and told my wife there was this weird wet stuff falling from the sky............
If any of you fellas that are evacuating need a place to hold up in lethbridge send me a PM. Lots of room for storage, boats, RVs and what not too.

[landowner]

Originally Posted by slough shark

Whatever started it here's hoping the moisture and cooler temps that we seem to be getting in southern Alberta gets it under control. It looks like on the map I saw that literally half waterton park is burned, hopefully that isn't the case. It if it is it looks like waterton may be returning to a more open grassland mountain range.

Actually the number is 80% of the park is burnt , not burnt is crypt , vimy , and chief mt areas.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by Taco

Updated map of the Kenow Fire, now estimated that the wildfire now covers an area of approximately 35,000 ha.

The latest number of the size is an estimated 44,000 ha.

[HoytCRX32]

What I'm not getting is why aid organizations (Calgary Helps) are asking for Gatorade donations FOR THE FIREFIGHTERS! Are the Feds, provincial or municipalities not supplying these people who are risking their lives to fight the fire?
Something is not right here.

[creeky]

Originally Posted by slough shark

Man every time I see the map it makes me sad, it looks to me that the 2 places that I liked going with the family and touring around are burned down, the Crandall campground and around red rock canyon, it'll be tougher visiting there for a couple years as there won't be much for places to stay. I wonder how it'll affect the park as it's half burned down now

it's going to have an effect for sure, they already cancelled the months end "wildlife weekend"-couple of us where looking at the night photography clinic.

Map shows bison paddock site burned, global said Parks moved the herd out ahead of the fire.


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[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by landowner

Actually the number is 80% of the park is burnt , not burnt is crypt , vimy , and chief mt areas.

It's not 80% from what I can see.

[Marty S]

As this is a discussion forum, the intent of the post was for discussion to see what others thought and/or heard. My grade 9 English teacher learned me that you always assume you are writing/speaking to an educated audience. If a prescribed burn happened, it would be a stupid thing, at best, and I'm hearing some think it impossible for something like that to ever happen. On the other hand some government agencies might supersede normal policy. If this ever happens, would the little people ever hear about it?

Affected people and some of their neighbors continue to be 100% convinced that there was a prescribed burn and it went amuck. Is there any merit behind their allegations? I have no idea. Certainly never in a million years according to the fine folks on this forum who know everything, and imply that nobody in government would ever make a horrible mistake or do anything stupid. Yesterday's claim was that one of the affected ranchers was interviewed by CBC and mentioned to them during his interview that he was burned out as a result of a secondary fire, originally not connected to the first or some language like that. The claim is that his comments were not investigated further, nor were they included in the release, instead edited out completely.

I continue to maintain that IF someone were to start a fire in a 50 km per hr west wind, that it would be "stupid". There would be no other word to describe such a hypothetical act. I think the guy on here that has firefighting experience would agree to such a thing, stating it could never happen due to protocols... I sure hope so!

I would think that normally when a reporter catches wind of such allegations that he or she would pursue such claims to determine if there is a BIG story there that gains the attention tha media seeks? On the other hand, would a government broadcasting company ever attempt to stifle such a story if there were allegations against government?

So many of you folk's comments have been very insightful, less the brow beaters attempts at browbeating! (but seems browbeaters just can't help browbeating on a public forum) The comments from the insightful immediately cause me to doubt the whole thing, however, the conviction of which the story is being spoken by those people at "ground zero", whom I know personally, compels me to continue wondering/considering/believing what they are saying.

Should we always believe the government? They would never do anything stupid or make a horrible mistake? Especially Parks people? Hmmm...

If there is any merit to the allegations, either there will be some serious lawsuits or some serious hush money.

Oh yes... I also believe in the concept of hush money, paid by government if/when they do something horrible or stupid. Browbeaters???

My most sincere apologies to those who have been offended by my black and white personality. I have been told I have polarized personality, so either folks like me or hate me. At 47.9 I will continue to attempt change! I am still grasping the concept that there is always a nice way to say the same thing.

[jrowan]

Re original post:
Pretty sure the rumors regarding a controlled burn were just a misunderstanding or someone overhearing firefighters/park rangers talking about previous burns since I heard on the news that pretty much the only reason the town site didn't burn down was because of the controlled burns they were doing every year to protect the town in case this happened.

[Rockman]

If it's on the news = must be 100%!

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by Marty S

I would think that normally when a reporter catches wind of such allegations that he or she would pursue such claims to determine if there is a BIG story there that gains the attention tha media seeks? On the other hand, would a government broadcasting company ever attempt to stifle such a story if there were allegations against government?

I agree with what you say, but this does not happen nowadays with reporters. The time it takes to do "due diligence" is already lost, its all about the instant media.

Besides what good would come from it?

It's no different than the 2013 floods, rumors that a firefighter didn't open a certain storm sewer drain in kensington area that would've prevented alot of flooding down there..

A witch hunt does nothing. In fact it would do the opposite of what everyone would want. Do you think any firefighter/gov't official/etc would make any decision regarding a "natural" disaster? Nope. In fact, I bet half of the brave soles down there fighting this fire, wouldn't show up to the next fire if we went after the person who may (or may not) have made a bad judgement call in the heat of the moment.

I'm not saying it's "right", but think of all the possible repercussions of such a witch hunt, and doesn't it really solve anything.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

The latest number of the size is an estimated 44,000 ha.

Well that news report was wrong, heard it twice. Today's report is saying 36,800 ha.

[SLH]

Originally Posted by Looper

Dont slap Marty just yet. The spokesman guy on the news specifically mentioned "Aerial Ignitions" as a one of the methods used to combat this fire?

Looper

I think with all the info that was released over the course of a few days a lot of info probably got confused and mixed up.

http://www.pc.gc.ca/apps/scond/Cond_...0&oPark=100429

There is no one in that profession that would have tried a back burn on sunday and monday when that wind was blowing plus the way it moved it wouldnt have mattered if they did it was going were it did regardless. I can understand the frustration but these crews were operating with the best intentions, but nothing was going to change the outcome regardless what they did. Honestly the fact the town is still standing is remarkable

[SLH]

Maybe landowner can speak to this...

Did the municipality have tankers and trucks at the ski hill "just in case" it got there, rather than where the fire was actually burning?