No More Fish and Wildlife Division?

[270WIN]

The Fish and Wildlife Division is dead but free sex change operations are alive and well. Not the same Alberta I grew up in.

Jack O'Connor was born in the state of Arizona and lived there and hunted that state extensively for most of the first half of his life before moving to Idaho. When he visited Arizona years later he said that what he saw reminded him of the feeling one must get upon running into one's high school sweet heart in a ***** house. I think maybe now I know what he was talking about.

[nekred]

I found the letter that gets the most action is a loud watch attached to a popcorn box wrapped up and attached to a letter made up of letters cut and pasted from a phone book.

There are some major cahnged needed. There are so many specialised paece officers and enforcement officers it only makes sense to combine many of them and have multiple duties and an expanded jusrisdiction of responsibility.

Intergrated resource managemnet is something that is very important. Instead of trying to manage everything on an individual basis with special interests creating an antagonistic atmosphere for negotiation.

Oil companies vs. loggers vs. local hunters vs, outfitters. vs atv users vs horseback riders vs. .....

My hope is that having all these managment and policy makers for land use decisions under one roof there will be a lot better information on all the resources being utilised so that sustainability is on a landscape base rather than on each individual resource use.

Look at how many areas in Alberta are managed for an exclusive user group cutting out other users and because it is a focused to one particularuse it becomes over-used and thus less sustainable.

This way the utilisation can be increased in all areas for a wider variety of users and end up being more sustainable over all.

I will give you an example of Maclean Creak, this was opened up as a special ATV use area to offset the closure of some nearby areas to ATV's. Then the ATV's over utilise that area because they have become more concentrated and it becomes acceptable to rip it up and it is fine... meanwhile fishermen and other outdoorsmen go elsewhere....

Then you have the Horseback acces only zone... no ATV's and then that area becomes over utilised by horses and there is other issues that result.

We have not even talked about any resource extraction and industry yet. Look at the conflict we have in Grande Cache with the mine closing access to recreational users....

My hop is that through all of this change that we have people communicating and consulting regarding land use decisions from a broader perspective before going to the public with a proposal.

I have seen so many examples of miscommunication and lack of understanding of responsibilities. Here is an example: There is a nearby county with a wolf problem and in the news it comes out there is a wolf bounty so i phone the county about the bounty to get info... They say there is no bounty that it is the SRD that makes that decisiom, I phone SRD and they say there is no bounty from them that is a county decision...

Or more recently the addition of muzzleloaders into Parkland County comes up and SRD and Parkland county are there and hold a town hall meeting. The reason for the muzzle loader season is because of the large number of problem wildlife complaints and vehicle strikes. I asked some pointed questions on who had the records and how many there were. County said SRD had that information. I asked SRD... they looked blank and said that they though the county kept that info as they did not have it. Turned out that the large number of problem wildlife and vehicle strikes was actually rumour and hearsay and had been repeated so many times the facts were left behind...if it is not recorded... hard to measure... and if not measured... hard to manage....

Under the current system a foreign owned mine has permission to operate in an area. they decide to expand the mine they apply to the mine people and they get the permission. So they expand and install a gate for safety and security. Recreational Outdoorsmen get ticked off and demand action politically and then a process is implemented so people can get a key to the gate, outfitters are impacted, trappers are impacted etc. and the inconvenience of getting a key is a PITA for everyone.

Instead I hope that the way it would now work is the permit to expand goes to mine people the integrated land use people would sit down and look at how many people historically access that area for recreation, trapping, fiashing, outfitting, as well as othe industries in the area and realise that if this mine expands they have to implement a certain process to minimise impact on the other user groups. So this si a collaborative venture and not an antagonistic one where MLA's have to get involved.... and so when proposal goes to the people that the majority of concernes are addressed invluding an access procedure.

The current lack of communication in the govt. bureacracy is horrible...

However this is still gvt. and it will never be good it may just drop from horrible to merely terrible....

[nekred]

In school I examined land use decisions and the most beneficial way of making them.

In another country instead of having departments based on user groups *Wildlife, forestry, recreation etc.) they have landscape managers. One person is put in charge of a certain area and they have a knowlege of every type of natural resource use in the area. They have people that enforce all the laws in the area. Whenever a use is proposed that will affect multiple areas the people in those areas and the ones neighbouring all sit down and discuss the potential impacts and together they make recomendations and come to a collaborative decision. This has worked very well and they turned their whole resource managment from being unsustainable extraction based into a sustainable economic driving foirce where they no longer have the huge emigration rate they used to have as they have created wealth and is now one of the strongest countries in the EU.

Iceland....

The fellow that came up with the brainstorm was brought into BC as a consultant and after a short period of time, left and went home because of the "special interest" groups being very narrow minded and not looking at the big picture through selfishness.... His words.... You have such a big pie when it comes to Natural resources and yet it will be gone because everyone wants the biggest piece for themselves instead of everyone taking some of it and sharing it with each other.

[Jwood 456]

Originally Posted by Kanonfodder

I didn't vote for them.....

X2!

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

I didn't vote for any of them. Those who did - please try to fix your mistake.

So does that mean that with no skin in the game or desire to take action, you will now cease initiating all the political threads on our "outdoorsmen" forum? LOL

I thought not.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by nekred

..............

There are some major cahnged needed. There are so many specialised paece officers and enforcement officers it only makes sense to combine many of them and have multiple duties and an expanded jusrisdiction of responsibility.

Intergrated resource managemnet is something that is very important. Instead of trying to manage everything on an individual basis with special interests creating an antagonistic atmosphere for negotiation.
...........

I'm not going to quote your whole post, however, with the apparent elimination of F&W, how important do you think it becomes in the great government scheme of things?

I do agree, and there have been many iterations of the concept, that integrated resource management has validity. I don't see anywhere from the information given to me that this will be the case, other then perhaps as it pertains to extraction industries.

If I find out more details, I will post.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by nekred

In school I examined land use decisions and the most beneficial way of making them.......Iceland....

Is that the same Iceland whose currency is erratic and on the verge of collapse? The one that is asking if they can use the Canadian dollar?

Hardly seems like the gold standard of government or management to me.

[sjd]

Hey, I thought everyone on here liked smaller government?

Would be nice to see some more details before jumping to conclusions. I'm pretty sure that F&W has not been privatized or cut.

With merging of two departments - SRD and Environment, I assume that 10+ divisions was simply too unwieldy.

To be blunt F&W has had no influence for 30 years and always been a (mostly ignored) appendage to the real business of SRD - log, mine, drill.

I dunno, perhaps having better integration with lands might have better conservation outcomes. I agree, though, awful titles.

I would prefer to see more profile, resources and clout for Fish and Wildlife, for sure, but I do question some of our priorities, when we are ready to mount a full campaign to fight as (unyet defined name change), while we let Harper remove protections for 90% of fish habitat in Canada without a peep.

http://www.burnabynow.com/Conservatives+change+protecting+fish+habitat/6594618/story.html

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by sjd

Hey, I thought everyone on here liked smaller government?

Are you aware of direction of this PC government, it's growth, how much of our economy is now consumed by it, the amount and type of legislation it has been quietly passing?

I thought not.

[pikergolf]

I would prefer to see more profile, resources and clout for Fish and Wildlife, for sure, but I do question some of our priorities, when we are ready to mount a full campaign to fight as (unyet defined name change), while we let Harper remove protections for 90% of fish habitat in Canada without a peep. I wrote my MP about the environmental bills, he told me how bad the NDP and Libs were for trying to hold them up. lol

[nekred]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Is that the same Iceland whose currency is erratic and on the verge of collapse? The one that is asking if they can use the Canadian dollar?

Hardly seems like the gold standard of government or management to me.

Whole different issue.... that was the banking side of things not the natural resource managment side of things.

Why do you always find the negative and derail everything.... in your own little seperatist agenda....

this makes LESS government and puts the policy making one more step removed from enforcement.

[nekred]

It looks like some people are going off half-cocked.... there are problems with existing F W system and everybody screams something needs to be done...

Then a re-vamping starts and everybody screams...it was fine the way it was....

No Win situation...

Let's sit back and be constructive and watch the movie play for a bit before we criticise it....

and it ios much easier to have input in an evolving process than a stagnant, redundant one

[Matt L.]

Nobody said it was fine the way it was, I would've liked to know what was going to happen before ie:transparency

[avb3]

Posted by AFGA on Facebook:

ESRD Sr Management called to say that Fish and Wildlife will not go away and there will be no lay-offs, they're re-building from ground up. Good news but we'll have to stay on top of it.

Wish there was more information. It perhaps clears up some of the uncertainty that the memo from the Deputy Minister laid out. Some, but not if we don't hear details, which apparently will be released tomorrow at noon to F&W staff.

Stay tuned. Re-building from the ground up will have changes that could be a good thing, but can also mean a lot of programs we have come to rely on will be eliminated. Remember, the mandate of F&W was to do game surveys, which now is handled by the ACA.

It went from tax dollars paying for the flights to hunters levy contributions paying for the same. I always thought all Albertans were interested in wildlife management, not just hunters.

Call me a skeptic. Government goes through reorganizations every 3-4 years, and it always seems that F&W comes out on the short end of the stick.

Always. There has not been one time that staff or program money has increased. At least not in the past 22 years.

[gronk]

From what i have heard from a couple of conservation officers is that is sounds like their mandate will be strictly enforcement. The other aspects of their jobs ie problem wildlife, stocking, surveys ect. will be contracted out.

[avb3]

A little birdie has provided the following reorganization chart and comments to me. It is in PDF format.

Gotta love all the signatures on the first page.

ESRD_executive_message_June_28_20121.pdf

Good to see Bjorge's name still there but after looking at that chart, I'm definitely no smarter than I was before seeing it. Why are all the regional fisheries guys named but there's nothing for wildlife or am I reading the flow chart wrong?

[avb3]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Good to see Bjorge's name still there but after looking at that chart, I'm definitely no smarter than I was before seeing it. Why are all the regional fisheries guys named but there's nothing for wildlife or am I reading the flow chart wrong?

Are you looking at the existing chart? I don't see Ron's name on the new proposed either, but I think that is because it has not been fleshed out yet.

Travis Ripley is also on the existing chart.

[BGSH]

Well if fish and wildlife was eliminated that would give me an excuse to throw people in the water who do not respect there fisheries ect....

Originally Posted by avb3

Are you looking at the existing chart? I don't see Ron's name on the new proposed either, but I think that is because it has not been fleshed out yet.

Travis Ripley is also on the existing chart.

Ooops, didn't realize that was the current organizational chart. So basically we have no details....lol

[avb3]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Ooops, didn't realize that was the current organizational chart. So basically we have no details....lol

My information sources are limited

Anything I am able to post, I will.

[Rocky7]

This reorganization is part of the master plan that was reflected before the last election in the PC's "Land Use Framework", centralization of control, planning and land use over all land (pubic and private); complete with a mandate to consider "international interests", whatever that means. I expect it all means something to a former U.N. lawyer that we are not going to like.

I wonder if we are headed where ON is going:

.... the following would be designated as Significant Wildlife Habitat:

• Any wetland with 20 or more frogs or tadpoles;

• Large buffer areas around nests of Cooper’s hawks, ring-billed gulls, Canada geese or most ducks, all of which are found in urban Ottawa;

• Farm fields that flood in spring if they are stopovers for 100 or more migrating geese or ducks;

• A single snapping turtle nest, or a pond where five painted turtles spend the winter;

• Any hawk or owl nest in a forest;

• A cliff and the “talus” (fallen rocks) at its base;

• Any stand of trees where 10 per cent or more of the trees are white oak;

• “Corridors” where toads, deer, or salamanders move from spot to spot;

• Any spring or “seep” where groundwater comes to the surface.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/busines...181/story.html

REDford and McGimpy seemed to be pals before the election. Maybe they think alike when it comes to natural resources and centralized planning, too?

I should've been a consultant. There's going to be a boom in consulting work.

[depopulator]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Can anyone say privatization? Is it possible our F&W duties, other than enforcement that was conveniently moved the the SG's office, might be in the hands of a private agency soon?

Isn't that the case already? based on all of the proposed changes to hunting regulations in absence of sufficient supporting data, I was under the impression that APOS was already the private agency managing our wildlife...

[avb3]

Although the AFGA has been told that nothing will change, I have been advised that staff at F&W have been told there no longer will be a Fish and Wildlife Division.

I suspect we will see a disconnect that was started when fish cops were moved over to the Solicitor Generals office. Existing staff likely will stay, but what cohesive unit will they act as?

As one staff member advised me, the Alberta Redford group has as its likely goal the elimination the only real environmental conscience in government.

So, who DO we talk to in the future?

[DarkAisling]

Originally Posted by avb3

So, who DO we talk to in the future?

i'd settle for figuring out who to talk to now.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by BGSH

Well if fish and wildlife was eliminated that would give me an excuse to throw people in the water who do not respect there fisheries ect....

I guess so... as long as you don't throw their tackle in to.
That would be littering.

[avb3]

Rick Blackwood, the current ADM for F&W, released the letter you can read via this link.

It really doesn't give us any details but I have trouble buying into the "it's business as usual". If so, why is the whole F&W Division disappearing?

F&W's importance is reduced once again in the great scheme of things in the Alberta government.

Interesting how the letter is supposedly about Fish and Wildlife but fish and wildlife are purposefully ommitted when he talks about what staff will continue to steward. This is the third official government letter I've noticed that ommission in. Typical political double speak. What isn't written troubles me more than what is.

[avb3]

Agreed. Have you also noticed that another branch that was prominent is not mentioned.... Water.

In fact, just a few months ago it was the Dept. of Environment AND Water, now water does not even warrant a division?

At least water is mentioned as one of the things they'll continue to steward...lol