Another Leaseholder Thread...

[killer18]

Originally Posted by trouty

here is the latest story. Contacted big rancher/ leaseholder couple months ago. Put in your name, we have lots of requests. Likely not going to have cows out until Dec. 15 this year so likely no access for anyone. So how have you provided reasonable access then? No answer.

Next it's Nov. 15, and we have over 50 requests. Again, so how are you going to accomodate a good portion of those requests in a two week period. Oh, we let people out in January for late elk. Not acceptable.

Next call local agrologist, get a lesson in lactating cows, and grass conditions, etc. That's not my issue, they still have not provided reasonable access. They should move cows off the lease onto private land, well that's not going to happen. Usual song and dance

Next step, formal complaint and get the settlement officer involved. All leaseholders should be required to have cows off by mid-October period.

I have done this before, the process works. At least they get put on notice this bs is unacceptable. If you get stonewalled by a leaseholder, push back.

agree, if we have to respect the rules, so do lease owners.

[trouty]

Originally Posted by Brock1

I hunt in the n. central and n. west. Last year was the first time that I involved the law because of how ridiculous it was.

quick story.
I go online to see the phone #s, access rules etc... He has 27 quarters on the n side of the hiway, 18 on the s. Several have had the same fencing half started for 4 years now.

Can't find the description or access info anywhere.

Call 411, get his #.

Call him. hes not home. His wife is a wonderful lady who discloses that he doesn't give anyone access to the leases except family. She reports that he has built his own huge hunting paradise for Elk, moose bears and Deer.

She even says it is ridiculous because there are so many DAMN elk there and they have had to spend thousands on fencing their bales in on thier woned land.

She says here is his cell # good luck.

I phone him. I tell him I would like to hunt 4 of the quarters accessible by road, no livestock on any of them.

He tells me him and his nephew will be hunting those quarters this week.
So I said I will go on the bordering quarters.

He tells me to go buy my own F ing land if I want to hunt or go on public land.

Remember at this point I have done more than legally neccesary to get ahold of the lease holder.....

Now I inform him it is public land and since he is being disrespectful, I will now be calling the county and f and w.

He tells me that he is a big man and if he sees me near there, on HIS land, that I will regret it for the rest of my life.

I thank him for being so ridiculous and inform him that I look forward to our first meeting and call the county officer.

That afternoon I got a phone call with an apology and a letter from the county emailed to me that my hunting party has full access to his leases.

This year, I go back and he has locked and gated all 4 of the quarters I hunted and still has no livestock on them.

These quarters are the only access to a huge chunk of non lease crown, other than the river.

I go online, still no phone number or restrictions, and all of the 20 plus quarters of lease land accessible from the road are now posted.

Unreal.

Now honestly, I drive 25 miles n w of there and find a bunch of elk.
different landowner/leaseholder.

Almost exact same story, except he has a family member who is an outfitter!!
Who has a key for all of the gates on the 20 plus quarters he has..

I have had enough..

his own hunting paradise, seriously.

He should be charged criminally.

The officer who dealt with me said that I somehow found the 2 most difficult landowners in the bordering counties.

I said NO, I just went and asked where I found plentiful game on non-private land.

these are the exact types of folks who need to go through a review with the Local Settlement Officer and set up conditions on their leases. Contact details must be provided, and if they are not there you are free to access.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Blaming a rut in the mud, a down fence or a supposed shot cow on "hunters" is disgusting slight against your own fellow sportsman.

The people who make ruts and cut fences on grazing leases may be your fellow sportsman. they are not my fellow sportsman.

[Deer Hunter]

Or they maybe oilfield workers checking a well, moose going through fences or whoever, but it's easier just to blame hunters. Unbelievable.

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by walleyes

reading all these posts about lease holders just reminds me of one of the main reasons i had to get out of the south. It just burns my behind how these people control public owned lands like its their own. All they do is rent the land from the people of the province yet they have been given the control of a private owner. They pay minamul fees and reep the rewards of full ownership. It just erks me how a handfull of ranchers can control millions of acres of public property with no input from the actual owners,, us.

People in this province have to get together and take control of our lands back. For every so many acres of land given to lease holders there should be a certain amount laid out for general public use. A few ranchers are crowding millions of people into a corner of the province for recreational use and its taking a serious effect on those portions of lands. The province is growing and the people require more room to play and exersise their rights as tax payers and citizins its time the province and these lease holders come to realise this and make accomadations. The old days of riding saddle accross open range came to a close years ago, its time these boys get it figured out.

In the end they don't own it,, we all do,, we all want use of it.

amen brother

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

Truly unfortunate that more landowners/leaseholders aren't on this board. We are hated, makes me laugh. The city landowners on here would be upset if we drove all over their lawns, camped out, tossed our garbage, cut their fences. But hey it's OK to do it in the country.

Oh well.


What do you intend to do with lease numbers Nait? The Veteran area is in Special Areas #4, the leases are pretty much all the same.

You know as well as me that your analogy dont make any sense , we,re talking miles of open range , not city private lots , totaly different , remember its not your private back yard , its public land.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Or they maybe oilfield workers checking a well, moose going through fences or whoever, but it's easier just to blame hunters. Unbelievable.

For sure that does happen. But most lease holders are smart enough to know if that is the case. After all, Moose don't carry side cutters and oilfield workers don't check where there are no wells.

But I can see that your mind is made up. No point in continuing this.

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

Lots of area around Cadomin that can't be hunted, looks pretty much reclaimed to me.

What "useful purpose" of the land does running cows on it destroy?

Well , lets start with creekbeds trampled and feced up , trees knocked over from scratching , over grazing resulting in land erosion , every land that l,ve seen that holds lots of Cattle is pretty much a mess.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Or they maybe oilfield workers checking a well, moose going through fences or whoever, but it's easier just to blame hunters. Unbelievable.

Oilfield workers do not cut fences checking wells, they have their own leases and accesses.
It is easy to tell the difference between a cut fence and a moose ripped down fence.
Keep talking city, your ignorance is really starting to show.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Jimboy

Well , lets start with creekbeds trampled and feced up , trees knocked over from scratching , over grazing resulting in land erosion , every land that l,ve seen that holds lots of Cattle is pretty much a mess.

The cows and fish program was developed just because of riparian areas being harmed. New ways of doing things.
Trees knocked over? Haven't seen that one but I suppose it's possible. Unless the tree was dead anyway.
Over grazing is a problem with a few guys, but isn't the norm. The grass doesn't produce well for a while afterward. Much more economically feasible to not do that, much like a few hunters cut fences and toss trash, a few ranchers abuse their leases.
Cattle do leave a bit of a mess behind, fertilizer etc. which nurishes millions of small organisms, that in return nurish higher organisms like grass, which feed the deer and elk.

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

You hit the nail on the head Pickrel Pat, There is too much of that going around. I agree write to the federal government and inquire about their so called land,,last I heard it still belongs to the queen or the natives not any individual, unless it was bought and paid for, Or a bunch of money dished out to the federal government or provincial government for the right to use it for what ever purpose. Hunting Crown lands is still a privildge not a right,, it goes the same for lease land its a priviledge not a right. All I have ever said if you want positive results you show the lease holders some respect or the landowners some respect and it might get you what you need if you dont move on there is millions of acres that has access if approached properly.

Here is another option,, do a title search in your name and see if your name is attached to any of the land you say is your lands that you feel you have the Right to hunt. If your names is on the title have at er.

However I think this thread has about run its course.

Hunting on crown land or accessing it is our GOD GIVEN RIGHT the same as the wildlife has , just because we are human dont make it any different , the planet belongs to us all , of course we buy and sell our land , but land that the good Lord has given us is still a right that we all have to use , if its not private.

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

maybe you shoulda Got your fence'n plires and your stretchers and knocked that fence up good instead of complaining about the shape on the fence on your so called land. Be a good Landowner Make sure your fences are in good shape for the neighbours or for other hunters that feel they need to go through it with their leatherman or fence'n pliers.

Looks like it was knocked down by Cattle or wildlife to me.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Jimboy

Hunting on crown land or accessing it is our GOD GIVEN RIGHT the same as the wildlife has , just because we are human dont make it any different , the planet belongs to us all , of course we buy and sell our land , but land that the good Lord has given us is still a right that we all have to use , if its not private.

I want to hunt Cadomin, and Genesee, and all around Ft. Mac, Sheereness, and the Battle river mine sites. After all they are on our land going after our resources, paying royalties, taxes and providing employment, evil buggers. It is our "GOD GIVEN RIGHT". I wonder how far I'll get with that demand?

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Jimboy

Looks like it was knocked down by Cattle or wildlife to me.

Looks old enough to have been abandoned in the depression years when "you" were busy kicking ranchers off their place for inability to pay taxes. When the rancher left the state took over and let things decay. There is a strong possibility that "you" are the reason that fence looks like that, and it should be "your" problem to clean it up. After all it is "your" land. According to the entitled on this site the rancher is only allowed to use the grass, so why should he have to clean up "your" mess?

[Deer Hunter]

Typical ....Blame it on someone else. Hunters probably did it.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Typical ....Blame it on someone else. Hunters probably did it.

Not blaming anyone, just pointing out other possibilities.

Typical... All lease holders are *****holes and should have their livelihoods destroyed by entitled hunters. Right back at you.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

Not blaming anyone, just pointing out other possibilities.

Typical... All lease holders are *****holes and should have their livelihoods destroyed by entitled hunters. Right back at you.

I never said any thing about leaseholders being ****holes, I just think that cattle and hunting can coexist and that the process is now too biased.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Its the one guy in a hundred that decides to be a jerk spoiling it for everyone....whether its the lease holder or the guy wanting to hunt.

We all know at least one guy that either doesn't honour the agreement or one that acts like a tool when he does seek access.

The rules need to be tightened up a bit and if leasers posted their info at the gate it would help.

Hunters on the other hand don't help when they get all uppity off the get go.

Out of all the lease land I've accessed I know only two guys that are usually jerks about it and they need their wagon fixed but I know a couple dozen hunters that need to do a bit of navel gazing and adjust their attitudes.

The vast majority of lease holders allow access on time despite the fact that many hunters accessing that land do not behave as they should when they do.

Leaseholders and hunters both need to be held accountable and follow the rules.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

I never said any thing about leaseholders being ****holes, I just think that cattle and hunting can coexist and that the process is now too biased.

Cattle and hunting do coexist.

Have a nice day.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

Have a nice day.

You too.

[KCL]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

i can totally see it. people in our area with jetboats are holier than thou......big name, money.... not jelous.... just the way it is in manning. and not all jetboaters are like that, but in manning comunity it is prevailant. big names,.......lol.

Ummm, no, that's wrong. I don't know a single person in Manning that would block a boat launch, I highly doubt it was someone from Manning or Hawk Hills that blocked the boat launch. If it was you should phone them ant tell them to smarten up and quit slamming them in an outdoor forum, grow a set.

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

Cattle and hunting do coexist.

Have a nice day.

I know a couple of Ranchers down by longview (not OH) that allow me to hunt anytime on their titled property , they just say watch out for my cows , and thats it .
l think the others that do not are most likely hunters themselves or outfitters and just want their own game preserve on our public land.
l know of one Rancher down south who openly states that no one goes on his lease till he gets his Elk first , he even tells you what you can and cannot shoot , and hes not alone.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Brock1

I stated in my post That I had gone above what was needed to access by law.

I was simply trying to avoid any conflict so i would be welcome back

I guarantee he knows the rules, he just runs his own because no one call him on it, you will never be welcome on his lease. So what? decency is for people that make an attempt to get along, for the rest there are rules. If you are happy hunting somewhere else let it go and move on, if you are bound and determined to hunt there then push back. Be aware others will be watching the outcome and I'm still on the fence as to whether push back works for the greater good. I have to think though for every rancher that gets away with crap there are some who will watch and learn. We have a guy down south that has three nice quarters lease, he posts nothing on the gov. access site, and posts his leases in big gaudy signs. I've phoned the appropriate people and they will do nothing until someone initiates a complaint. I don't have the energy to fight him, but how many others are going, hmmm, he's getting away with it. I really do get the farmers perspective too, I've seen incidents where you just shake your head, but to be truthful most of the stuff I have seen has come from farmers on other farmers, especially the trespassing.

[sunsetrider2011]

After reading all the response on this issue I think I will post all my private land NO HUNTING OR TRESPASSING, end of story,,Now No one will get access ,,its quite simple that people dont get it. So enough is enough ,, and every landowner i talk to in the area i will mention it as well. Especially the ;lease holders that pay the taxes on the land as well. That Some people figure its their God Given right. That will I am sure **** off about a 100 or so hunters that come to my door every year.

[C & C]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

After reading all the response on this issue I think I will post all my private land NO HUNTING OR TRESPASSING, end of story,,Now No one will get access ,,its quite simple that people dont get it. So enough is enough ,, and every landowner i talk to in the area i will mention it as well. Especially the ;lease holders that pay the taxes on the land as well. That Some people figure its their God Given right. That will I am sure **** off about a 100 or so hunters that come to my door every year.

Could be attitudes like that, that ruin it for everyone. Pretty soon there are going to be new rules. Esp when the amount of disputes increase and more of the government time and money are used to settle them. Could go in the favor of lease holder or public.
See someone cutting a fence...report it. Didnt see it...report it still, they may do nothing but its on the record and it might be some kids just out to cause trouble.
There are bad seeds on both sides and in the end its going to hurt everyone. there will be so many regulations on these lease lands knowone will be happy. Take some time and stop blaming every hunter for a fews mistakes and stop blaming ever lease holder for a fews greed or ignorance.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by C & C

Could be attitudes like that, that ruin it for everyone. Pretty soon there are going to be new rules. Esp when the amount of disputes increase and more of the government time and money are used to settle them. Could go in the favor of lease holder or public.
See someone cutting a fence...report it. Didnt see it...report it still, they may do nothing but its on the record and it might be some kids just out to cause trouble.
There are bad seeds on both sides and in the end its going to hurt everyone. there will be so many regulations on these lease lands knowone will be happy. Take some time and stop blaming every hunter for a fews mistakes and stop blaming ever lease holder for a fews greed or ignorance.

Sunset did say PRIVATE land. Then all the hunters he used to allow on private land could join with the entitled ones on lease land. Seems like a good idea to me. Lol.

[dkalin]

Must be hitting a lot of nerves , looks like people with leased land are not liking people talking about how they shouldn't have a say on land that ant Theres , No respect I guess , Thats what i would say if i couldnt have my way

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by dkalin

Must be hitting a lot of nerves , looks like people with leased land are not liking people talking about how they shouldn't have a say on land that ant Theres , No respect I guess , Thats what i would say if i couldnt have my way

Seems to me allowing unrestricted access to lease land is what you are crying about. Now that someone has a plan to allow it you are against that too. You need to make up your mind.

[Jack&7]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Its the one guy in a hundred that decides to be a jerk spoiling it for everyone....whether its the lease holder or the guy wanting to hunt.

We all know at least one guy that either doesn't honour the agreement or one that acts like a tool when he does seek access.

The rules need to be tightened up a bit and if leasers posted their info at the gate it would help.

Hunters on the other hand don't help when they get all uppity off the get go.

Out of all the lease land I've accessed I know only two guys that are usually jerks about it and they need their wagon fixed but I know a couple dozen hunters that need to do a bit of navel gazing and adjust their attitudes.

The vast majority of lease holders allow access on time despite the fact that many hunters accessing that land do not behave as they should when they do.

Leaseholders and hunters both need to be held accountable and follow the rules.

Pesky has it right....and I agree 100%.

The pizzing match back and forth of "hunters are the problem" vs. "leaseholders are the problem" gets all of us no where. It is sad...truly it is.

I sit back and watch from the sidelines and wonder:

Are there any places where a "good" hunter and a "good" leaseholder co-exist? Does such a thing exist?

I would love nothing more than to find a place where I could rely on the fact that every year I would be welcome to hunt. A place that is not overflowing with yahoos and weekend road warriors like most Crown land. And I would be proud to know that I earned that privelege by doing things the right way...by being respectful, etc. Unfortunately, I realize that the only way to truly accomplish this is to buy my own...but that won't happen for me in this province. Hence, I need to get permission from those who DO have the land. And I am ok with that.

And I would also take pride in the fact that the landowner or leaseholder would be at ease knowing that I am on their property because they know I will look out for their interests just as if it was my own land.

But as I have yet to find such a place, I wonder if it even exists. It seems greed (by members of BOTH groups) have made it such that everyone is mis-trusting of everyone else.

As I said before: It is sad...truly it is.

[dkalin]

only have a problem with the people leasing land for other purposes other than grazing there cattle ,there own hunting paradise , there is more of that going on that makes a person mad , and them trying to find every excuse to keep any one else off their lease, just need a simple law stating it ant there's to have a say would be nice, I don't think any one has a problem with any one that owns there land ,cause it there's to have a say.