Alberta Health system brutal

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...high-1.6900641

We need more nurses. Period.
Same thing goes for doctors.

Thank you. I just couldn’t understand how a person who gets paid hourly, could work enough hours in a physically and mentally taxing environment such as is encountered in hospitals. I still don’t understand. Just doesn’t make sense.

I couldn’t agree with your assertion that we need way more nurse and doctors.

As a teacher, I will say that BSc. Nursing programs, as well as NAIT’s various Health Services programs are ultra competitive, and require a gr 12 avg between 85-95%. That is limiting the pool of potential nurses in a massive way. I sure as hell know that when I was in high school, I never had those marks. Nor would have many on this forum. Yet, lots of us who drank and drugged our youth away, now have Red Seal Certifications and/or degrees that have a reference to honors and/or distinction in them, showing the brains were there, they just weren’t paired with the requisite maturity. We just needed some time in the school of hard knocks to kick our azzes in gear.

How many brilliant people do we know who weren’t so brilliant at 18? Likely oodles.

Age and experiences also play into things. I know these marks well, as I am currently helping a young adult navigating which direction she heads next. IIRC, her overall avg in gr 12 was mid 80s. During high school she also played high school sports and was in all the drama productions, which have helped make her a very confident young kid.

Some of these programs she would get into, others she would not. Since she turned 15 she was a swim instructor, and when she hit 18 she became a life guard. I have no idea how many drowning people she has saved in the last 4 years, but it has been multiple. She is a cool cucumber under fire. She has also served under-resourced peoples in Belize, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Korea, and in the inner city of Los Angeles. She’s got a ton of moxie, even more tenacity, and a heart bigger than most I know.

I know I would bet on a kid like her who has had many extra-curricular experiences which have made her a well rounded individual, and has demonstrated a real commitment to serving others, over someone else who also worked equally hard, and achieved even higher marks, but spent most nights in her room studying.

Both can and do make great nurses.

I am just saying that the bar to get accepted into these faculties is too high.

Let the kids who get in the 70s give er a crack, and triple the number of spaces. Get rid of the bloody university seats being taken up by the Arts faculties at the same time. If it’s just a stepping stone degree - which it is, let’s be honest - kids can get pre-professional years in other, more useful programs.

Work ethic can take a person farther than IQ. That’s my thoughts anyhow.

I just think it’s ludicrous that we make it so had to get the foot in the door of Nursing faculties in Canada. I mean hell, they gotta pass the courses when they get in anyhow.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by sns2

Thank you. I just couldn’t understand how a person who gets paid hourly, could work enough hours in a physically and mentally taxing environment such as is encountered in hospitals. I still don’t understand. Just doesn’t make sense.

I couldn’t agree with your assertion that we need way more nurse and doctors.

As a teacher, I will say that BSc. Nursing programs, as well as NAIT’s various Health Services programs are ultra competitive, and require a gr 12 avg between 85-95%. That is limiting the pool of potential nurses in a massive way. I sure as hell know that when I was in high school, I never had those marks. Nor would have many on this forum. Yet, lots of us who drank and drugged our youth away, now have Red Seal Certifications and/or degrees that have a reference to honors and/or distinction in them, showing the brains were there, they just weren’t paired with the requisite maturity. We just needed some time in the school of hard knocks to kick our azzes in gear.

How many brilliant people do we know who weren’t so brilliant at 18? Likely oodles.

Age and experiences also play into things. I know these marks well, as I am currently helping a young adult navigating which direction she heads next. IIRC, her overall avg in gr 12 was mid 80s. During high school she also played high school sports and was in all the drama productions, which have helped make her a very confident young kid.

Some of these programs she would get into, others she would not. Since she turned 15 she was a swim instructor, and when she hit 18 she became a life guard. I have no idea how many drowning people she has saved in the last 4 years, but it has been multiple. She is a cool cucumber under fire. She has also served under-resourced peoples in Belize, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Korea, and in the inner city of Los Angeles. She’s got a ton of moxie, even more tenacity, and a heart bigger than most I know.

I know I would bet on a kid like her who has had many extra-curricular experiences which have made her a well rounded individual, and has demonstrated a real commitment to serving others, over someone else who also worked equally hard, and achieved even higher marks, but spent most nights in her room studying.

Both can and do make great nurses.

I am just saying that the bar to get accepted into these faculties is too high.

Let the kids who get in the 70s give er a crack, and triple the number of spaces. Get rid of the bloody university seats being taken up by the Arts faculties at the same time. If it’s just a stepping stone degree - which it is, let’s be honest - kids can get pre-professional years in other, more useful programs.

Work ethic can take a person farther than IQ. That’s my thoughts anyhow.

I just think it’s ludicrous that we make it so had to get the foot in the door of Nursing faculties in Canada. I mean hell, they gotta pass the courses when they get in anyhow.

I’ve been arguing this for years but pretty tough to find someone who will listen and who can actually effect change. Set a minimum standard for academic achievement and after that everyone is in equal footing - with academics aside now you can choose your college entrants on the qualities that will help assure we have the right people in the program. If we need rural health care workers fill the schools with rural candidates, etc…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sns2]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

I’ve been arguing this for years but pretty tough to find someone who will listen and who can actually effect change. Set a minimum standard for academic achievement and after that everyone is in equal footing - with academics aside now you can choose your college entrants on the qualities that will help assure we have the right people in the program. If we need rural health care workers fill the schools with rural candidates, etc…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Inspired thinking I say!

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by lannie

Sorry if it was not clear to you. Every person should pay the first 50.00.

Few things called treaties that make this scenario a no go.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by sns2

Thank you. I just couldn’t understand how a person who gets paid hourly, could work enough hours in a physically and mentally taxing environment such as is encountered in hospitals. I still don’t understand. Just doesn’t make sense.

I couldn’t agree with your assertion that we need way more nurse and doctors.

As a teacher, I will say that BSc. Nursing programs, as well as NAIT’s various Health Services programs are ultra competitive, and require a gr 12 avg between 85-95%. That is limiting the pool of potential nurses in a massive way. I sure as hell know that when I was in high school, I never had those marks. Nor would have many on this forum. Yet, lots of us who drank and drugged our youth away, now have Red Seal Certifications and/or degrees that have a reference to honors and/or distinction in them, showing the brains were there, they just weren’t paired with the requisite maturity. We just needed some time in the school of hard knocks to kick our azzes in gear.

How many brilliant people do we know who weren’t so brilliant at 18? Likely oodles.

Age and experiences also play into things. I know these marks well, as I am currently helping a young adult navigating which direction she heads next. IIRC, her overall avg in gr 12 was mid 80s. During high school she also played high school sports and was in all the drama productions, which have helped make her a very confident young kid.

Some of these programs she would get into, others she would not. Since she turned 15 she was a swim instructor, and when she hit 18 she became a life guard. I have no idea how many drowning people she has saved in the last 4 years, but it has been multiple. She is a cool cucumber under fire. She has also served under-resourced peoples in Belize, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Korea, and in the inner city of Los Angeles. She’s got a ton of moxie, even more tenacity, and a heart bigger than most I know.

I know I would bet on a kid like her who has had many extra-curricular experiences which have made her a well rounded individual, and has demonstrated a real commitment to serving others, over someone else who also worked equally hard, and achieved even higher marks, but spent most nights in her room studying.

Both can and do make great nurses.

I am just saying that the bar to get accepted into these faculties is too high.

Let the kids who get in the 70s give er a crack, and triple the number of spaces. Get rid of the bloody university seats being taken up by the Arts faculties at the same time. If it’s just a stepping stone degree - which it is, let’s be honest - kids can get pre-professional years in other, more useful programs.

Work ethic can take a person farther than IQ. That’s my thoughts anyhow.

I just think it’s ludicrous that we make it so had to get the foot in the door of Nursing faculties in Canada. I mean hell, they gotta pass the courses when they get in anyhow.

Reminds me of an uncle of mine, abysmal marks in school, quit at the start of grade 10. Had musical talent, ended up getting a fill in music teacher position at a large high school. Got his teaching degree over the next 5 years. Ended up principal of the school. Retired young and became mayor of the community, re elected for three terms. Now in his 80'suffering from dementia.

Anyway many people who quit school or did poorly become fabulous successes. Many educated extremely intelligent people turn out to be loosers. I know teachers, nurses, doctors, etc who shouldn't be in their positions, but their marks, connections, the right last name, etc., got them where they shouldn't be, and many people who couldn't get through high school would make these people look like idiots. For whatever reason there will always be people in positions they shouldn't and those who would excell can't get through the door.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Reminds me of an uncle of mine, abysmal marks in school, quit at the start of grade 10. Had musical talent, ended up getting a fill in music teacher position at a large high school. Got his teaching degree over the next 5 years. Ended up principal of the school. Retired young and became mayor of the community, re elected for three terms. Now in his 80'suffering from dementia.

Anyway many people who quit school or did poorly become fabulous successes. Many educated extremely intelligent people turn out to be loosers. I know teachers, nurses, doctors, etc who shouldn't be in their positions, but their marks, connections, the right last name, etc., got them where they shouldn't be, and many people who couldn't get through high school would make these people look like idiots. For whatever reason there will always be people in positions they shouldn't and those who would excell can't get through the door.

As good an example as any I have heard.

It’s also a real shame that they make immigrants to Canada basically climb Mount bloody Everest to get their credentials recognized. Many just give up.

My old next door neighbor had a BSc in Engineering and an MBA, but from universities in India. He gave up and sells appliances at BestBuy. Ridiculous.

[huntinstuff]

My friends mom lives in China

She has an AHC card.

You cant allow hundreds of thousands of needy immigrants into Canada and not expect it to take a toll on housing, jobs and healthcare. She is part of the problem. It's an abuse of our system. Times that by 500,000.......

Your mom will sit and wait while someone who isnt even an Albertan steps in front of her with a sense of entitlement like you have never seen.p

There are doctors here in Edmonton from Nicaragua, Chile, South Africa who have taken the necessary "upgrades" to work here, yet no jobs.

There isnt a doctor shortage. There is a lack of government initiative to hire them.

Try being a cardiologist in Edmonton. Good luck.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

My friends mom lives in China

She has an AHC card.

You cant allow hundreds of thousands of needy immigrants into Canada and not expect it to take a toll on housing, jobs and healthcare. She is part of the problem. It's an abuse of our system. Times that by 500,000.......

Your mom will sit and wait while someone who isnt even an Albertan steps in front of her with a sense of entitlement like you have never seen.p

There are doctors here in Edmonton from Nicaragua, Chile, South Africa who have taken the necessary "upgrades" to work here, yet no jobs.

There isnt a doctor shortage. There is a lack of government initiative to hire them.

Try being a cardiologist in Edmonton. Good luck.

I’m not smart enough to be a cardiologist. I forget what brings me from the couch to the kitchen as often as not.

But you get no argument from this corner. But, here’s where the rubber meets the road… does it upset you enough to report your buddy’s mom?

We have all likely been complicit in our silence to abuses of the system like this, as to speak out in many cases means your job, and if not that, likely your odds at advancement in the company. And before we assume it’s all in the public sector, the worst stories of excess I have heard have been in companies involved in the energy and resources sectors.

A real part of the problem is nepotistic practices in hiring. We all know who gets ahead far too often, and I’m not referring to the hardest workers

Anyhow, we can all agree that we need more doctors and nurses.

[jstubbs]

Hightlights another good point about is the supply of new doctors being educated here in Canada also lagging badly behind? When was the last Canadian medical school accredited? 1940?

Not that we should have CDI college or even MacEwan running med programs, but lets get some more focus on continuing to expand the amount of seats available in our existing top notch medical schools. I'm glad there has already been some push by the UCP to get that done and frankly should have been done years ago, because the competitiveness to get into med school is unbelievable and thus the incredibly brilliant, talented young minds that would make amazing doctors get turned away is just shooting ourselves in the foot.

Right now, you need a 3.9+ GPA, a 90th+ percentile MCAT score, hundreds (if not thousands) of volunteer hours, extensive research participation, and some other real interesting hobbies/interests/experiences just to land an interview with the University of Alberta, and from there a tiny percentage are actually accepted. You essentially spend four years of your life grinding sun up to sun down year round for a *chance* to get in.

Oh, and then we charge the students $200k+ in tuition throughout those four years of undergrad and four years of med school and then years of residency getting paid SFA and wonder why they won't choose to be a family doctor where they work 60+ hours a week for 1/6 of what they'd make in the United States as a general internal medicine doc. Bravo. Brilliant.

[Grizzly Adams1]

We have all likely been complicit in our silence to abuses of the system like this,

Because that's how become a social outcast, no end of special interests who will vilify you.

Grizz

[Smokinyotes]

Bottom line we need more Dr’s and nurses and less administration. My family Dr is a prime example of why emergency rooms are overloaded. I started going to this Dr about 15 years ago. Really good doc. But if I were to call tomorrow to make an appointment I bet I wouldn’t be able to get in until sometime after the first week of August. So if it is anything urgent you end up going to the ER.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by sns2

I’d love a link to this… ^^^

The 300 and 500k seems pretty high.

It is very high, and it's very doable. The RN that I posted about earlier that quit in Edmonton to work agency in Alberta is in that income range.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

Hightlights another good point about is the supply of new doctors being educated here in Canada also lagging badly behind? When was the last Canadian medical school accredited? 1940?

At this point it's more important to increase residency positions than actually try starting a new medical school (although one is currently being started at SFU).
A VERY COMMON occurrence is a bright young Canadian with excellent grades applying to a Canadian medical program being turned down because they weren't quite excellent enough. That sucks, but they pull up their pants and apply to a great medical school in some third world country like Australia, or Ireland (obvious tongue in cheek). That student finishes their program in Ireland (after supplying an immense amount of labour to the various Irish hospitals while working through their program as a MSI (medical school intern) and then a resident. That newly minted baby doctor wants to come home to Canada but needs to jump through a ton of hurdles with one of them doing residency requirements in Canada. As they now have trained out of Canada they have to apply as a foreign applicant and the number of seats allocated is minuscule. Most try repeatably to come home to practice and finally give up.
Increase the number of residency positions, and you will have doctors filling those seats immediately.

[Sporty]

There's a lot of picking on nurses and doctors on this thread but what about the administrative and bureaucratic bloat?

In my health region there are 13 executive board members, the top 5 are pulling in over 1.6 mill a year, that doesn't include incentives, bonuses, pension and benefits. This is just 1 health region of the 5 in the province. Add to that, there's over 19,000 administrative employees with only 1900 doctors for the entire region. My town has an urgent care center but it doesn't have an actual hospital or any walk in clinics. Currently we have 5 doctors with 2 about to retire with no one to take over their practice. Our population is 145K and growing. Wait time for family doctor is about 8 years to never. Add in rolling ED closures all over the region.


This is the norm for each province with likely the same or more bloat with hefty salaries, bonuses, pensions, etc etc. The system, like most government departments in this country is way too top heavy and often no value to the taxpayer.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by Sporty

There's a lot of picking on nurses and doctors on this thread but what about the administrative and bureaucratic bloat?

In my health region there are 13 executive board members, the top 5 are pulling in over 1.6 mill a year, that doesn't include incentives, bonuses, pension and benefits. This is just 1 health region of the 5 in the province. Add to that, there's over 19,000 administrative employees with only 1900 doctors for the entire region. My town has an urgent care center but it doesn't have an actual hospital or any walk in clinics. Currently we have 5 doctors with 2 about to retire with no one to take over their practice. Our population is 145K and growing. Wait time for family doctor is about 8 years to never. Add in rolling ED closures all over the region.


This is the norm for each province with likely the same or more bloat with hefty salaries, bonuses, pensions, etc etc. The system, like most government departments in this country is way too top heavy and often no value to the taxpayer.

The upper layers are all politically connected.

Again…thank Ralph. That was his way of ensuring it would stay this way.

Good luck dislodging them, you think unions are bad, try the old boys club in Alberta.

[pittman]

Interesting thread fellas.

Couple things I can add -

In terms of work force, it seems like every department and discipline is short both in Alberta and across Canada. Over the last few years the UCP has significantly damaged the relationship with the folks working in health care (think tearing up the physician contract, wages not keeping up with inflation etc). Other provinces have been very successful in recruiting these individuals with better wages. For example, BC used to pay physicians about 20-25% less than Alberta. They increased their pay scale and with the turmoil in Alberta many left. Alberta is great, but BC is pretty great too. This was a problem many orders of magnitude greater than the handful of works who quit due to AH's pandemic vaccination policy.

On top of this, we don't train enough of anyone in Canada. Stealing grads from other countries is an option but its a complicated one. We're lucky enough to maintain a pretty high standard for out health care providers here in Canada. Practicing physicians from other countries with comparable training have a pretty straightforward path to work in Canada - they have to write the same exams that local grads write. Canadian physicians have the same obligations when seeking work in other countries. If physicians come from countries with less comparable training they often have to go back a few steps and re-train a bit here. If medical grads (not fully trained physicians) are seeking residency positions in Canada it is more complicated. These are educational positions funded by tax-payers. The priority in obtaining these positions is given to local Canadian medical graduates (as we're already heavily invested in their training). The medical graduates from the rest of the world are eligible to apply to these positions after the first application cycle is complete. The reason they often have so much difficulty is that they're now competing with a huge pool of applicants from all around the world who want to finish their training here. In any case, its not a perfect system but it serves to maintain a reasonable standard of care. If you're on the receiving end, this is important.

One thing I would like to see is the separation of healthcare from government overreach. It seems like every new government feels they need re-establish AH leadership, restructure the health care system, and re-negotiate contracts with workers. I understand that healthcare is a huge part of the provincial budget. There absolutely is value in motivating a healthcare system to be more cost-effective, but disrupting it every 4 years just leaves it in a constant state of turmoil. And honestly, politicians have no idea how health care is delivered.

[densa44]

The health system is 100% a provincial responsibility, it was mentioned in the 1867 BNA act, and it is still that way. It is expensive partly because we have a very large country with not that many people. It will get worse as the immigrants are not farmers but city dwellers and some of the small towns will disapper. There can be changes made to our education system to provide expert health care to rural Canadians. It can be done by requiring service for a set number of years for studends educated in Alberta. I was one of those students and Alberta "bought" me out from Ontario. The Premier shook my hand and said "welcome to Alberta" That was nearly 50 years ago. My have the politics changed.
It will not be easy to come back from the damage that has been done. One problem that should be on the table, we are spending about 1/3 more than we tax for. The rest is oil money, what happems when it runs out? Great post.

[traderal]

Originally Posted by pittman

Interesting thread fellas.




One thing I would like to see is the separation of healthcare from government overreach. It seems like every new government feels they need re-establish AH leadership, restructure the health care system, and re-negotiate contracts with workers. I understand that healthcare is a huge part of the provincial budget. There absolutely is value in motivating a healthcare system to be more cost-effective, but disrupting it every 4 years just leaves it in a constant state of turmoil. And honestly, politicians have no idea how health care is delivered.

This overreach happens in every other department also and paralyzes the operations every time a new minister comes on board. Constant interference from the top for political reasons (started with Klein). Loughheed was steady as she goes with a vision for the future. Since then its been musical chairs, here today gone tomorrow, always some one trying to up their marking on a tree, and one of the things they absolutely hated to hear is when we told them, "sir, we tried that and it didn't work", but hey they had already brought in a consultant for a million bucks who told him otherwise. Lucky i had farming on the side which kept me sane and gave me relief.
One of my submissions to the UCP for their next meeting in Nov. is to stop paying consultants for decisions that should be made by the managers put in charge. If the highly paid managers can't make decisions then they shouldn't have the job.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by pittman

Interesting thread fellas.

Couple things I can add -

In terms of work force, it seems like every department and discipline is short both in Alberta and across Canada. Over the last few years the UCP has significantly damaged the relationship with the folks working in health care (think tearing up the physician contract, wages not keeping up with inflation etc). Other provinces have been very successful in recruiting these individuals with better wages. For example, BC used to pay physicians about 20-25% less than Alberta. They increased their pay scale and with the turmoil in Alberta many left. Alberta is great, but BC is pretty great too. This was a problem many orders of magnitude greater than the handful of works who quit due to AH's pandemic vaccination policy.

On top of this, we don't train enough of anyone in Canada. Stealing grads from other countries is an option but its a complicated one. We're lucky enough to maintain a pretty high standard for out health care providers here in Canada. Practicing physicians from other countries with comparable training have a pretty straightforward path to work in Canada - they have to write the same exams that local grads write. Canadian physicians have the same obligations when seeking work in other countries. If physicians come from countries with less comparable training they often have to go back a few steps and re-train a bit here. If medical grads (not fully trained physicians) are seeking residency positions in Canada it is more complicated. These are educational positions funded by tax-payers. The priority in obtaining these positions is given to local Canadian medical graduates (as we're already heavily invested in their training). The medical graduates from the rest of the world are eligible to apply to these positions after the first application cycle is complete. The reason they often have so much difficulty is that they're now competing with a huge pool of applicants from all around the world who want to finish their training here. In any case, its not a perfect system but it serves to maintain a reasonable standard of care. If you're on the receiving end, this is important.

One thing I would like to see is the separation of healthcare from government overreach. It seems like every new government feels they need re-establish AH leadership, restructure the health care system, and re-negotiate contracts with workers. I understand that healthcare is a huge part of the provincial budget. There absolutely is value in motivating a healthcare system to be more cost-effective, but disrupting it every 4 years just leaves it in a constant state of turmoil. And honestly, politicians have no idea how health care is delivered.

The system is broken, throwing more money at it has been tried for years. The money disappears and nothing changes. Study what successful countries do and emulate it. But of course the unions will scream bloody murder. Health care is supposed to be for the people not for unions to pad themselves.

[sns2]

Some really thoughtful posts. Thank you fellas. Lot better than the usual angry, partisan bashing.

Pittman, are you a physician?

[Zip]

At Christmas time last winter I ended up at foothills hospital in Calgary with Heart attack..actually it was two separate heart attacks. But that’s not the real reason I wanted to chime in on this thread so late.

I spent 2 nights in the emergency ward before a bed opened up for me on a higher up floor. Now I saw A lot of things that changed my perspective on hospital’s and the health care system. Two nights in a row I watched as the er door opened and more and more people came in with various stuff..worse was a person with hands cut off..I also saw everyone who worked in the ER…take one break throughout the steady in pouring of so many bad things coming through that door. Their break consisted of me watching all the nurses and others working those nights, sitting down for no more than 5-10 minutes to wipe the sweat off grab a quick drink..then all hell broke loose again…they were running full out and doing a good job while sprinting. It made me tired watching them so go hard…once I was shipped upstairs everything was very much quieter. The doctors and nurses who were watching me during my 9 days in there, were this best I could have hoped for, all were nice and cheerful, but they were also being over worked..that was plain as day to see.
My experience says that they all still cared about us patients…but there was always just to many of us and not enough of them…
Overall I’d give a 8 outa 10 experience, I highly recommend the foothills hospital in Calgary if you need help fast. They stopped the two attacks I had, and I walked out in way better shape than I went in…very positive people working inside with just not enough help for them all, on any floor!
I hope I never have to go back there, but if needed that’s where I’d be heading and fast…
Zip

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by sns2

Thank you. I just couldn’t understand how a person who gets paid hourly, could work enough hours in a physically and mentally taxing environment such as is encountered in hospitals. I still don’t understand. Just doesn’t make sense.

I couldn’t agree with your assertion that we need way more nurse and doctors.

As a teacher, I will say that BSc. Nursing programs, as well as NAIT’s various Health Services programs are ultra competitive, and require a gr 12 avg between 85-95%. That is limiting the pool of potential nurses in a massive way. I sure as hell know that when I was in high school, I never had those marks. Nor would have many on this forum. Yet, lots of us who drank and drugged our youth away, now have Red Seal Certifications and/or degrees that have a reference to honors and/or distinction in them, showing the brains were there, they just weren’t paired with the requisite maturity. We just needed some time in the school of hard knocks to kick our azzes in gear.

How many brilliant people do we know who weren’t so brilliant at 18? Likely oodles.

Age and experiences also play into things. I know these marks well, as I am currently helping a young adult navigating which direction she heads next. IIRC, her overall avg in gr 12 was mid 80s. During high school she also played high school sports and was in all the drama productions, which have helped make her a very confident young kid.

Some of these programs she would get into, others she would not. Since she turned 15 she was a swim instructor, and when she hit 18 she became a life guard. I have no idea how many drowning people she has saved in the last 4 years, but it has been multiple. She is a cool cucumber under fire. She has also served under-resourced peoples in Belize, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Korea, and in the inner city of Los Angeles. She’s got a ton of moxie, even more tenacity, and a heart bigger than most I know.

I know I would bet on a kid like her who has had many extra-curricular experiences which have made her a well rounded individual, and has demonstrated a real commitment to serving others, over someone else who also worked equally hard, and achieved even higher marks, but spent most nights in her room studying.

Both can and do make great nurses.

I am just saying that the bar to get accepted into these faculties is too high.

Let the kids who get in the 70s give er a crack, and triple the number of spaces. Get rid of the bloody university seats being taken up by the Arts faculties at the same time. If it’s just a stepping stone degree - which it is, let’s be honest - kids can get pre-professional years in other, more useful programs.

Work ethic can take a person farther than IQ. That’s my thoughts anyhow.

I just think it’s ludicrous that we make it so had to get the foot in the door of Nursing faculties in Canada. I mean hell, they gotta pass the courses when they get in anyhow.

You’re right. My daughter wanted to get into ultrasound but didn’t have the marks. She became an optician instead and passed with flying colors, not a problem at all for her. I’ll bet the people who did get into ultrasound are very “booksmart” and probably not real good with people.

You know what my daughter is only 23 and she some days outsells the whole sales team of 3 others by a 3:1 ratio. With her affinity for people and her caring attitude I wonder how she could have helped people in the medical industry.

[Immigrant]

Here is an example of a day in the life of a rural physician in a clinic with 8 dr’s:
They each have between 600-800 patients each. They all rotate and do emergency call, obstetrics call, walk in clinic, remote clinic, ward patients and old folks home, and their “own” patients.
To have a 24 hour emergency room you need 2 dr’s - one sleeping and one working.
Each dr must do a remote clinic once a week, so one dr is always “away”
One dr does walk in clinic, but is also on call for obstetrics. So if baby is coming the walk in clinic is at a standstill.
One dr does ward patients and old folks home.
That leaves 3 dr’s 2 days to see their regular patients.
And then there is baseball practice, sick kids, school concerts etc.

Things are only going to get worse.

[DirtShooter]

Illegal immigrants coming to Canada for treatment.... Drug addicts getting free hard drugs from the Governments..... Government policies.....

Those are the reasons that our healthcare system is garbage. I'm sure there are more but those are the main ones.

We DO need a two-tier system. I'd pay. I'd use a LOC. I'd use whatever I could to pay for treatment that I or my family needed. Waiting in line = dying in line.

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by 3blade

The upper layers are all politically connected.

Again…thank Ralph. That was his way of ensuring it would stay this way.

Good luck dislodging them, you think unions are bad, try the old boys club in Alberta.

Not just Ralph or Alberta, it's the same all over Canada. I live in BC currently, if you think unions are an Alberta phenom, should try BC

[mmmtracksoup]

All I know is this. My dog can get an MRI tomorrow. When my dog gets better health care than I do - you're doing it wrong.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by mmmtracksoup

All I know is this. My dog can get an MRI tomorrow. When my dog gets better health care than I do - you're doing it wrong.

LOL, I told my Moms doctor who had her scheduled for a MRI 6 months from then that I was going to take her for one and would be back the next day with the results. He looked at me funny, asked where you going to get that done. I told him the vetrinarian was only 2 blocks away.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by mmmtracksoup

All I know is this. My dog can get an MRI tomorrow. When my dog gets better health care than I do - you're doing it wrong.

You paid for out of pocket correct?
Can do the same for yourself as well so......

[pittman]

Originally Posted by mmmtracksoup

All I know is this. My dog can get an MRI tomorrow. When my dog gets better health care than I do - you're doing it wrong.

Same option exists in AB. If you want to pay you can get your MRI tomorrow.

If you want AH to pay then get in line. If you NEED it tomorrow our current system will make it happen.

Turns out most people think that their own problem is the biggest. Hence the dissatisfaction while waiting for the fella in front of them.

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

There's a changed attitude in society, these jobs require a 24 hour a day commitment and involve shift work and being on call, interferes with people's leisure time. Local dentist works 3 days a week 9 to 4. That's why we need immigrants, they still have a work ethic.

Grizz

So you are expecting nurses to work 12 hour shift and then be on call for the next 12 hours and still not be affected by fatigue that may cause an error?
What other career would would require their workers to violate labour laws.
Why would we expect nurses to work more than a 40 hour week?
After 17 hours of being awake you are the equivalent of 0.5 blood alcohol.
I don't want anyone in the medical profession attending to someone that is at that level of impairment.
It has nothing about work ethic.
It involves nurses that that have the knowledge that they are human and can only function
with a adequate amount of rest.
If nursing was such easy money then why is there a shortage?
Bringing in immigrants is a good start but we can't let them get over worked or we wind up with them being burned out as well.
Holy crap use some logic before you spout off on something so blatantly obvious.

The system is broken and the cause is over worked nurses.
Bringing in