To Crossbow or not to crossbow - That is the question!

[Lomondk]

"Do you realize how many guys do this every year, without all the excuses and moaning you so easily find and waste time voicing?"


Ummmm I don't recall making any excuses or even complaining about anything but the Elitist attitude made by the "BOW ONLY" crowd on this forum, I do bow hunt, I'm not very good but I try, and will continue to try even once I can hunt with a crossbow if I decide to. And when I fail at bow hunting like I usually do I get my rifle buy those tags and keep on hunting.


You and your crowd whining about the possibility of not being able to just buy over the counter moose tags and mulie tags, or there being too many other people wanting the same game, because the rules might change to be more inclusive to people who want to do something different then what you consider "REAL" hunting.


Jeeze your 1st grade teacher sure did a SH*&^@! job of teaching you to share..

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

that PSE TAC 15 crossbow is pretty ridiculous and at 1300 bucks plus the rear stock pus the scope I'm guessing 2000 dollars withe the full package dealand then you still have to get within 40 yards of your target while packing a 12lb bow.
(yup 8.3 lbs base weight before rear ar15 lower end + scope +bolts I'm guessing 12lbs)

I guess it could be done ,assuming it would even be classified as a legal hunting xbow in Alberta .

I have eluded to this before most bows out there in the field are barely recognizable as bow anymore .Perhaps we need a restriction to no pulleys ,cams or cables on your bow makes it a legal bow . That way the xbow and the vert bow are limited to recurve/longbow style weapons

It would be better for the deer/moose etc the hunt becomes more difficult and the harvest rates drop dramatically , a win win except the high tech compound hunter is now Pizzzd off

Oh the humanity!!! how can this end peacfully??

This has only been expressed 682 times already.
Thanks for making it 683....

[HunterDave]

My understanding is that the PSE T15 is restricted in Canada because the lower receiver is from an AR15 and the one that is non-restricted is the T15i. Wholesale Sports has them on their website for $1800, bare bones. You'd be up to about $2500 once you got it kitted out.

If crossbows ever become legal I figure that you'd see as many crossbow hunters with them as you do rifle hunters with top of the line Swarovski rifle scopes on their rifles now. The technology is available but the cost for it is a little steep.

A year or two later you'll see a bunch of them for sale when people figure out that they don't make you a better hunter.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Big Bull... you out there ?
Good question. But it's a fact.
Ishootbambi, you want to jump in and explain the hairy jigs and stuff?

i cant find it in the alberta regs, but i know when i lived in bc there were lots of fly only lakes. their definition of a fly read something like.......a single hooked lure tied with hair, feathers or synthetic material to imitate natural prey.......or something to that effect. dont quote that, im going from memory and it was a while ago. anyway, a bead head fly qualifies, and a bigger one is a black maribou jig, which im sure you know imitates a leech. it was the most reliable fish getter in my tackle box. even though i could cast it with a spinning rod, it fit the definition of a fly and was legal at the fly only lakes. i havent seen the printed rules regarding maligne lake, but id be surprised if that jig didnt meet the definition.

[bb356]

never mind

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by Lomondk

"Do you realize how many guys do this every year, without all the excuses and moaning you so easily find and waste time voicing?"


Ummmm I don't recall making any excuses or even complaining about anything but the Elitist attitude made by the "BOW ONLY" crowd on this forum, I do bow hunt, I'm not very good but I try, and will continue to try even once I can hunt with a crossbow if I decide to. And when I fail at bow hunting like I usually do I get my rifle buy those tags and keep on hunting.


You and your crowd whining about the possibility of not being able to just buy over the counter moose tags and mulie tags, or there being too many other people wanting the same game, because the rules might change to be more inclusive to people who want to do something different then what you consider "REAL" hunting.


Jeeze your 1st grade teacher sure did a SH*&^@! job of teaching you to share..

Its not elitist. Its about hard work and a desire to challenge ones self. Again, theres a ton of guys and gals out every fall challenging themselves after working all year with thier equipment. To place expectations that you should be allowed to march right in with a weapon that any archer worth his salt could kill durring archery season with, with little more difficulty than a rifle is ABSURED.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

This has only been expressed 682 times already.
Thanks for making it 683....

Apologies to all I have offended for expressing this for the 683rd time lol


Just a thought... now and i f this has come up already I apologize in advance.

If the worst case scenario were to happen and the xbow is officially recognized as acceptable for bow hunting by the higher ups. What are all the "real" bow hunters going to do?
Will the xbow hunters have to take out extra life insurance or hire security?

[grinr]

Originally Posted by Lomondk

.... I do bow hunt, I'm not very good but I try, and will continue to try even once I can hunt with a crossbow if I decide to. And when I fail at bow hunting like I usually do .......

hmmmm...interesting?And why is it do you suppose that you are a perpetual failure at bowhunting?Because it's difficult?Because you've been unable to get within 30 yards of your quarry,draw undetected,and make an accurate,lethal shot to the vitals maybe?Because you don't spend enough time and dedication practicing to extend your effective range to 50 yards?

Now think back over your less than illustrious bowhunting career,and consider how many times you probably seen deer that were just beyond your comfort range,or that busted you in the act of drawing,or that you only had a narrow window of 2-3 seconds to make a shot before they bolted....in other words,all the deer that you could've easily taken with a x-bow....that's the difference.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Apologies to all I have offended for expressing this for the 683rd time lol


Just a thought... now and i f this has come up already I apologize in advance.

If the worst case scenario were to happen and the xbow is officially recognized as acceptable for bow hunting by the higher ups. What are all the "real" bow hunters going to do?
Will the xbow hunters have to take out extra life insurance or hire security?

That depends on which tool you think is the more effective killing machine.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Its not elitist. Its about hard work and a desire to challenge ones self. Again, theres a ton of guys and gals out every fall challenging themselves after working all year with thier equipment. To place expectations that you should be allowed to march right in with a weapon that any archer worth his salt could kill durring archery season with, with little more difficulty than a rifle is ABSURED.

Why don't you hunt with a recurved instead of a compound bow then?

Haven't you been listening at all Pack? Comparing a crossbow to a rifle is beyond absured...lol!

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

i cant find it in the alberta regs, but i know when i lived in bc there were lots of fly only lakes. their definition of a fly read something like.......a single hooked lure tied with hair, feathers or synthetic material to imitate natural prey.......or something to that effect. dont quote that, im going from memory and it was a while ago. anyway, a bead head fly qualifies, and a bigger one is a black maribou jig, which im sure you know imitates a leech. it was the most reliable fish getter in my tackle box. even though i could cast it with a spinning rod, it fit the definition of a fly and was legal at the fly only lakes. i havent seen the printed rules regarding maligne lake, but id be surprised if that jig didnt meet the definition.

Geez thaks.
I'll keep that in mind for next year

[bb356]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Apologies to all I have offended for expressing this for the 683rd time lol


Just a thought... now and i f this has come up already I apologize in advance.

If the worst case scenario were to happen and the xbow is officially recognized as acceptable for bow hunting by the higher ups. What are all the "real" bow hunters going to do?
Will the xbow hunters have to take out extra life insurance or hire security?

the crossbow users will have nothing to worry about !!! the crossbow has magical powers !!!!

[CNP]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

My understanding is that the PSE T15 is restricted in Canada because the lower receiver is from an AR15 and the one that is non-restricted is the T15i. Wholesale Sports has them on their website for $1800, bare bones. You'd be up to about $2500 once you got it kitted out.

If crossbows ever become legal I figure that you'd see as many crossbow hunters with them as you do rifle hunters with top of the line Swarovski rifle scopes on their rifles now. The technology is available but the cost for it is a little steep.

A year or two later you'll see a bunch of them for sale when people figure out that they don't make you a better hunter.

Haven't you been listening at all Pack? Comparing a crossbow to a rifle is beyond absured...lol!

You can buy the T15 upper separately and attach it to your own AR-15 lower. I've seen the uppers for sale at $1100. I've been tinkering with that one. Would it look cool with a 30 rd mag in the magwell? The mag makes a good monopod.............just like shooting an AR-15 or C7 using the mag as a rest. If thats not good enough there is a rail on the bottom for a bipod. I'm starting to like this crossgun............doh crossbow.

edit: it really is a crossgun

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Why don't you hunt with a recurved instead of a compound bow then?

Haven't you been listening at all Pack? Comparing a crossbow to a rifle is beyond absured...lol!

LOL! Not in the right hands its not absured Dave,,, and there are a big bunch of guys that fit the bill. Just for example, get em inside 25 yards, pass em foreward a 30-30, or a x bow and the outcome is the exact same. Pass em a bow, archery equipment of any kind, and she is a totally different ball game now. We could go on and on about what happens in tight on game, and theres a ton of guys that could do the explaining, but dont take any of our words for it, stop being a bunch of whelp's and go try for yourselves. You will find that the so called facts you guys have been using are nothing more than a bunch of propeganda, that in all honesty, aint worth sh*t to me, and its worth even less in the field...

[Lomondk]

"hmmmm...interesting?And why is it do you suppose that you are a perpetual failure at bowhunting?Because it's difficult?Because you've been unable to get within 30 yards of your quarry,draw undetected,and make an accurate,lethal shot to the vitals maybe?Because you don't spend enough time and dedication practicing to extend your effective range to 50 yards?

Now think back over your less than illustrious bowhunting career,and consider how many times you probably seen deer that were just beyond your comfort range,or that busted you in the act of drawing,or that you only had a narrow window of 2-3 seconds to make a shot before they bolted....in other words,all the deer that you could've easily taken with a x-bow....that's the difference."

HMMM a great deal of assumption is going on here, and it shows your arrogance and your ignorance.
why haven't I taken a deer with my bow..... you're right I don't give it as much time as it needs for me to be good enough..... so what. My ability has nothing what-so-ever to do with the fact that most of the arguments posted on here against letting crossbows in archery season is nothing more then greed and a sense of Arrogant Entitlement (reasonable concerns about impact on actual game numbers an obvious exception to this comment) You are worried that you aren't going to get your moose tag or your mulie tag and somebody who you feel doesn't deserve it (cause they don't do things your way) is going to get the animal you wanted.

Grow up this sport is supposed to be here for everyone to enjoy, making an easier way to get into archery hunting is a good idea.... That way more people can enjoy this amazing past time.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

even though i could cast it with a spinning rod, it fit the definition of a fly and was legal at the fly only lakes. i havent seen the printed rules regarding maligne lake, but id be surprised if that jig didnt meet the definition.

I'd be very surprised if it fit the legal definition of a fly almost anywhere that flyfishing only is required?Just because it does in BC don't mean shat.It certainly does NOT in NB nor anywhere else in Canada where Atlantic Salmon are angled with unweighted flies only. BTW....luv the flyfishing analogy.


I fail to see what the cost of a Tac 15 has to do with this debate?As mentioned,there are many hunters that think nothing of mounting a $1000 scope on a rifle if they think they need it or it gives them an edge.And as for x-bows,there's plenty of 350fps x-bows out there for a fraction of the cost of a T15....and if you think you REALLY need 400fps,Bowtech Strykers and Strykeforce are both under a grand at 405fps and 385fps respectively.Lots of current compound hunters pay that for a naked bow.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by ehntr

You can buy the T15 upper separately and attach it to your own AR-15 lower. I've seen the uppers for sale at $1100. I've been tinkering with that one. Would it look cool with a 30 rd mag in the magwell? The mag makes a good monopod.............just like shooting an AR-15 or C7 using the mag as a rest. If thats not good enough there is a rail on the bottom for a bipod. I'm starting to like this crossgun............doh crossbow.

As long as the lower receiver from an AR15 is involved it is classed as a restricted weapon. That's why they came out with the T15i so it is available to everyone. If you already have an AR15 then that's not an issue because you already have the restrict permit but I don't know the law regarding actually hunting with a restricted weapon. Can you?

I've never shot a crossbow faster than about 200 fps and mine is only effective out to 40 yds maybe. I'll take your word for it when you say that you wouldn't have a problem putting a bolt into a deer at 100 yds with your 350ish fps crossbow but I'm still a little skeptical. I think that it might take a fair amount of time for the bolt to reach the target and a deer would jump the string. I'll try a 100 yd target shot with my new crossbow and see how it goes.

[Tony_S]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'm not certain what your point is.

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I don't understand your point.

You don't understand the point!?!? Wow....absolutely incredible.

The point, Ive come to realize....is the one on the top of the dunce cap That I need to be wearing for allowing my stupid ass to make another post on this ridiculous waste of time thread.

It won't happen again gents. Carry on.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Tony_S

You don't understand the point!?!? Wow....absolutely incredible.

The point, Ive come to realize....is the one on the top of the dunce cap That I need to be wearing for allowing my stupid ass to make another post on this ridiculous waste of time thread.

It won't happen again gents. Carry on.

Well, if it makes you feel any better we are discussing the PSE T15 and T15i.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by grinr

I'd be very surprised if it fit the legal definition of a fly almost anywhere that flyfishing only is required?Just because it does in BC don't mean shat.It certainly does NOT in NB nor anywhere else in Canada where Atlantic Salmon are angled with unweighted flies only. BTW....luv the flyfishing analogy.


I fail to see what the cost of a Tac 15 has to do with this debate?As mentioned,there are many hunters that think nothing of mounting a $1000 scope on a rifle if they think they need it or it gives them an edge.And as for x-bows,there's plenty of 350fps x-bows out there for a fraction of the cost of a T15....and if you think you REALLY need 400fps,Bowtech Strykers and Strykeforce are both under a grand at 405fps and 385fps respectively.Lots of current compound hunters pay that for a naked bow.

well....about the flies....if the regs specifically say UNWEIGHTED flies then obviously it wouldnt meet that definition, nor would a beadhead fly. clearly your way of fishing is the best as is your way of bowhunting. obviously you want to argue everything possible for the sake of arguing. the situation was maligne lake....NOT atlantic salmon in new brunswick.

as for the speed of anything....there is a guy at the local archery club who has a high country bow that shoots arrows at 3 grains per pound. it chronies at around 405....and he can shoot a 3 shot group under 4 inches at 100 yrds.....guess you want him banned too huh?

[grinr]

Originally Posted by Lomondk

why haven't I taken a deer with my bow..... you're right I don't give it as much time as it needs for me to be good enough..... so what. My ability has nothing what-so-ever to do with the fact that most of the arguments posted on here against letting crossbows in archery season is nothing more then greed and a sense of Arrogant Entitlement (reasonable concerns about impact on actual game numbers an obvious exception to this comment) You are worried that you aren't going to get your moose tag or your mulie tag and somebody who you feel doesn't deserve it (cause they don't do things your way) is going to get the animal you wanted.

Grow up this sport is supposed to be here for everyone to enjoy, making an easier way to get into archery hunting is a good idea.... That way more people can enjoy this amazing past time.

Your ability and the ability of the majority of x-bow hunters to take game has EVERYTHING to do with the argument.The very reason bow seasons are longer and earlier is BECAUSE it's so much more difficult and the success rate is relatively low,and sorry,but YES it is an elite sport,and no I don't think you deserve to participate with an easier to use,more efficient weapon,just because your too lazy or lack the skill or both to do things under the current rules.

Grow up yourself,BOWHUNTING is already here for everyone to enjoy that's willing to make the effort.Talk about selfish,you want to hunt earlier and longer seasons,but you want to do it your way,with all the advantages that make it less difficult,potentially reducing the opportunity and enjoyment of those that established said season in the first place,as well as take away opportunity from rifle hunters at the other end of the quota,but as long as you can use your x-bow in bow season,that's ok,screw everybody else?

[bb356]

GRINR forget about the fishing debate it was i who asked a stupid question and i checked the regulatitions and have formed my own oppion on the posters analogy !!!

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

LOL! Not in the right hands its not absured Dave,,, and there are a big bunch of guys that fit the bill. Just for example, get em inside 25 yards, pass em foreward a 30-30, or a x bow and the outcome is the exact same. Pass em a bow, archery equipment of any kind, and she is a totally different ball game now. We could go on and on about what happens in tight on game, and theres a ton of guys that could do the explaining, but dont take any of our words for it, stop being a bunch of whelp's and go try for yourselves. You will find that the so called facts you guys have been using are nothing more than a bunch of propeganda, that in all honesty, aint worth sh*t to me, and its worth even less in the field...

Although what you wrote is all imagined and this was discussed before, for the sake of argument, the real hunting skill is is the stalk. If a compound bow hunter can get within 25 yds of an animal he will have to draw his bow from a crouched or knelling position. In comparison, a crossbow hunter can adopt a prone position with a cocked weapon. In your mind, this will make such a huge difference that there will be no challenge and it will be a total slaughter. Sorry, I don't understand your logic.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

obviously you want to argue everything possible for the sake of arguing. the situation was maligne lake....NOT atlantic salmon in new brunswick.

LOL...talk about the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to arguing details.The "situation" is NOT this lake or such and such province,the situation is an analogy of flyfishing compared to bowhunting.If you can't see the similairities of allowing x-bows into bow season vs. allowing spinning gear on flyfishing only waters.........

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by grinr

I'd be very surprised if it fit the legal definition of a fly almost anywhere that flyfishing only is required?Just because it does in BC don't mean shat.It certainly does NOT in NB nor anywhere else in Canada where Atlantic Salmon are angled with unweighted flies only. BTW....luv the flyfishing analogy.

I fail to see what the cost of a Tac 15 has to do with this debate?As mentioned,there are many hunters that think nothing of mounting a $1000 scope on a rifle if they think they need it or it gives them an edge.And as for x-bows,there's plenty of 350fps x-bows out there for a fraction of the cost of a T15....and if you think you REALLY need 400fps,Bowtech Strykers and Strykeforce are both under a grand at 405fps and 385fps respectively.Lots of current compound hunters pay that for a naked bow.

YES !!
Was starting to wonder

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by grinr

LOL...talk about the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to arguing details.The "situation" is NOT this lake or such and such province,the situation is an analogy of flyfishing compared to bowhunting.If you can't see the similairities of allowing x-bows into bow season vs. allowing spinning gear on flyfishing only waters.........

lolol....ok i guess i need to explain it slower and with smaller words for you. i too think the fly analogy is perfect. you see, that jig....by definition of the basic principles is a fly. it looks a little different, and the learning curve to use it may be a little quicker, but at the end of the day its a fly. are you getting it yet? just like a crossbow looks a little different and is easier to become proficient with. gettin it now? at the end of the day its just another bow. tell me the light bulb is on by now? the fishing regs in new brunswick still arent part of the disussion......the analogy is.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

YES !!
Was starting to wonder

Yeah, I read it and I understand it.

Some fisherman in the area would like to fish the lake with Rapalas but 16% of the local fisherman only want to fish with flies, the way that it is now. Because of the 16% of fly fishermen the vast majority of fishermen in the area shouldn't try to get Rapalas included for fishing because the 16% doesn't like Rapalas.

Right?

[bb356]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

YES !!
Was starting to wonder

after checking the regs you analogy in my oppinion is a bunch of sh .... sh ... sheepdip !!!!

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by bb356

after checking the regs you analogy in my oppinion is a bunch of sh .... sh ... sheepdip !!!!

BB, you aren't supposed to bring reality into it. Stop muddying the waters with facts.

It's an analogy. You see, the fly fishermen represent the 16% of bowhunters in Alberta and the rapala fishermen represent the rest of the hunters in Alberta. Now, if there is a percentage of the 16% that want to fish with Rapalas and flies then the actual percentage of fly fishermen that are opposed to Rapalas drops even farther. I think................

[CNP]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

As long as the lower receiver from an AR15 is involved it is classed as a restricted weapon. That's why they came out with the T15i so it is available to everyone. If you already have an AR15 then that's not an issue because you already have the restrict permit but I don't know the law regarding actually hunting with a restricted weapon. Can you?

I've never shot a crossbow faster than about 200 fps and mine is only effective out to 40 yds maybe. I'll take your word for it when you say that you wouldn't have a problem putting a bolt into a deer at 100 yds with your 350ish fps crossbow but I'm still a little skeptical. I think that it might take a fair amount of time for the bolt to reach the target and a deer would jump the string. I'll try a 100 yd target shot with my new crossbow and see how it goes.

We already covered that ground Dave. I'm not going to be shooting any deer at 100 yards probably because from my stand I can't see 100 yards. But...If I did have an opportunity, my scope was set up for 100 yards and I was shooting my xbow off of a rest and the deer was not alarmed in any way.....then sure why not? Deer can jump the string and get underneath an arrow shot from 15 yards............I would say that shooting from 100 yards would be more stealthy than shooting from 15 yards.

As far as hunting with a Tac15 goes........yeah, just having an ar-15 lower outside of a range is a problem. But there is nothing in the hunting regs that says you cannot hunt with a restricted rifle in AB. The only restriction with hunting rifles is the calibre. If an AR-15 lower is attached to a crossbow upper it is no longer a rifle (as per hunting regs). So the whole matter goes back to the CFO of AB who says that restricted firearms can only be transported to approved firing ranges, gunsmiths and border crossings. So, as it is written right now, being that an ar-15 lower by itself is the (only) part of the rifle that is restricted, it would not be wise to take that part of the rifle on your crossbow hunting trip. It doesn't have to make sense.....it's the law lol. I just noticed there is a TAC15i for sale in the buy/sell!