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03-25-2015, 05:39 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrow_baron
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Lol. This discussion needed that.
It's to bad one side doesn't see the big picture of hunters as a whole.
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03-25-2015, 05:45 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcbride
Lol. This discussion needed that.
It's to bad one side doesn't see the big picture of hunters as a whole.
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It's too bad one side, is so stuck on a single issue to look past it and see what good has been done in the past...and can be done in the future.
LC
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03-25-2015, 05:53 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcbride
Lol. This discussion needed that.
It's to bad one side doesn't see the big picture of hunters as a whole.
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I think the ABA side was thinking about hunting as a whole. Having no rules on certian weapons and the the guidelines for there use was a hudge oversite by SRD.
Dmcbride how would you define legal hunting methods with a spear or atl atl ? weapons such as bows and rifles have mechanical aspects that guarantee a certian amount of energy. How do you ensure that the thrower can generate enough energy? Surly you would want a legal min weight and cutting diameter what would that be? That fact that someone can sharpen a broom stick and go out hunting is rediculus and needs to be changed at a very minimum, for that alone I am glad the ABA brought the issue up. As I said before we as hunters should police and question our selves before someone else does it for us.
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"There's more fun in hunting with the handicap of the bow than there is in hunting with the sureness of the gun." -Fred Bear-
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03-25-2015, 05:58 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinkhammer
I think the ABA side was thinking about hunting as a whole. Having no rules on certian weapons and the the guidelines for there use was a hudge oversite by SRD.
Dmcbride how would you define legal hunting methods with a spear or atl atl ? weapons such as bows and rifles have mechanical aspects that guarantee a certian amount of energy. How do you ensure that the thrower can generate enough energy? Surly you would want a legal min weight and cutting diameter what would that be? That fact that someone can sharpen a broom stick and go out hunting is rediculus and needs to be changed at a very minimum, for that alone I am glad the ABA brought the issue up. As I said before we as hunters should police and question our selves before someone else does it for us.
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To add...dropping a rock from a treestand on a deer...is not something I would recommend but no rule against it.
LC
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03-25-2015, 05:59 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Explain...
LC
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You your self said, quote from previous thread.
Originally Posted by calgarychef View Post
We've survived thus far without these tools/weapons being regulated, it's always been legal In Alberta to hunt with spears. We've never had a problem with them so why worry about it now? These guys aren't asking for a separate season, not wanting to be in the bow season, they just want to hunt with their sticks. Why open this big can of worms? Just leave things as they are.
Another good point....why is this nonissue all of the sudden an issue?
.....issues become issues only when someone brings them up.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...=211709&page=4
From here post #97
Don't really know what happened since you joined the ABA, but most hunters don't feel it is right to through other hunters under the bus. Like it or not, the ABA did bring this issue up.
As for your question. See post #271 of the same thread.
If the majority of the ABA members do not support the ban or would like to see minimum standards, why not correct the situation?
Also the ABA has been back peddling on this issue, they had to do something.
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03-25-2015, 06:01 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
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Nothing happened to me since I joined, LOL. I also stated back then, and still state I feel minimal requirements are needed.
Nice cherry pick by the way . That was part of a progressive discussion, one would have to read the entire context of the thread to see how I felt back then. I wasn't an ABA member back then, and like I stated before I joined the ABA to get a better feeling for the group that represents me as a bowhunter in Alberta.
I also said this,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Personally I have no issue with defining a minimum standard for these "other" primitive weapons. That falls in line with the regulations to have minimum standards for rifles, bows, shotguns, x-bows and muzzle loaders. I have no issue with legitimizing other hunting tools but feel there should be minimum standards IMHO.
LC
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LC
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Last edited by Lefty-Canuck; 03-25-2015 at 06:08 PM.
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03-25-2015, 06:10 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Beaumont
Posts: 241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcbride
Lol. This discussion needed that.
It's to bad one side doesn't see the big picture of hunters as a whole.
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I didn't want to chime in and join the argument. I'm a ABA member myself and always will be. That's all I'm going to say. I don't personally know any of the facts on this so I'm not going to get involved
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03-25-2015, 06:12 PM
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I guess the real question should be is why did another organization have to bring up the problems with spears and atlatl? Why didn't people who are passionate about the sport try to get some rules and structure around it. I know if people were shooting animals with homemade 20lbs bows I would be pushing for some guidelines around archery hunting as some one who cares about it and its reputation.
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"There's more fun in hunting with the handicap of the bow than there is in hunting with the sureness of the gun." -Fred Bear-
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03-25-2015, 06:15 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Over That Hill
Posts: 3,872
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Well, who wants to go to Belize and chuck a spear? I hear it's really nice down there, and the buffalo need some thinning out! Apparently the women have nice tans to boot!
PS: In my word I do not discriminate, bows are just as cool as spears!
Last edited by edmhunter; 03-25-2015 at 06:33 PM.
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03-25-2015, 06:18 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Nothing happened to me since I joined, LOL. I also stated back then, and still state I feel minimal requirements are needed.
Nice cherry pick by the way . That was part of a progressive discussion, one would have to read the entire context of the thread to see how I felt back then. I wasn't an ABA member back then, and like I stated before I joined the ABA to get a better feeling for the group that represents me as a bowhunter in Alberta.
I also said this,
LC
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I also have no issue if they need to be defined.
But it is going to open a whole other can of worms.
It wouldn't be that hard, same cutting head as archery or bigger. The Kinetic energy is there.
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03-25-2015, 06:25 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcbride
I also have no issue if they need to be defined.
But it is going to open a whole other can of worms.
It wouldn't be that hard, same cutting head as archery or bigger. The Kinetic energy is there.
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How do you know the kinetic energy is there? Everyone's throwing ability is greatly different. How would you ensure the hunter is physically capable?
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"There's more fun in hunting with the handicap of the bow than there is in hunting with the sureness of the gun." -Fred Bear-
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03-25-2015, 06:26 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcbride
I also have no issue if they need to be defined.
But it is going to open a whole other can of worms.
It wouldn't be that hard, same cutting head as archery or bigger. The Kinetic energy is there.
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Mechanical energy is easy to define....physical energy is extremely variable and not person to person consistant, that's the difficulty.
LC
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03-25-2015, 06:26 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinkhammer
I think the ABA side was thinking about hunting as a whole. Having no rules on certian weapons and the the guidelines for there use was a hudge oversite by SRD.
Dmcbride how would you define legal hunting methods with a spear or atl atl ? weapons such as bows and rifles have mechanical aspects that guarantee a certian amount of energy. How do you ensure that the thrower can generate enough energy? Surly you would want a legal min weight and cutting diameter what would that be? That fact that someone can sharpen a broom stick and go out hunting is rediculus and needs to be changed at a very minimum, for that alone I am glad the ABA brought the issue up. As I said before we as hunters should police and question our selves before someone else does it for us.
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Fact is someone can buy a 40lb longbow and not be able to pull to full draw and use dull 7/8 broadheads and be legal. As a bow hunting association this should be more of a concern than a few guys who spear and atlatl hunt that most were archers who wanted to try something a little more challenging.
Do you honestly think there are guys out there running around with sharp broom sticks?
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03-25-2015, 06:27 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinkhammer
How do you know the kinetic energy is there? Everyone's throwing ability is greatly different. How would you ensure the hunter is physically capable?
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How do you know someone is pulling there bow to full draw?
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03-25-2015, 06:29 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinkhammer
I guess the real question should be is why did another organization have to bring up the problems with spears and atlatl? Why didn't people who are passionate about the sport try to get some rules and structure around it. I know if people were shooting animals with homemade 20lbs bows I would be pushing for some guidelines around archery hunting as some one who cares about it and its reputation.
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Because it wasn't an issue until the ABA made it an issue.
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03-25-2015, 06:32 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcbride
How do you know someone is pulling there bow to full draw?
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How do you know a reduced recoil load goes over 500fps?
LC
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03-25-2015, 06:37 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
How do you know a reduced recoil load goes over 500fps?
LC
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In all honesty I have never thought about it or used reduced recoil ammo. How do you know? Is it regulated so that hand loaders don't make a load that isn't effective?
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03-25-2015, 06:42 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Copperhead Road, Morinville
Posts: 19,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkhammer
how do you know the kinetic energy is there? Everyone's throwing ability is greatly different. How would you ensure the hunter is physically capable?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcbride
how do you know someone is pulling there bow to full draw?
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Exactly! Did you just present an argument to ban longbows, stinkhammer? Afterall, what's good for the goose......
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03-25-2015, 06:42 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,203
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I suppose eventually with all these regulations that are needed we will all have to hunt with one of these.
http://tracking-point.com/
Or maybe the bow hunters will be forced to use crossbows to make sure they are producing enough energy.
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03-25-2015, 06:43 PM
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Those are some really weak and pathetic arguments dmcbride. The point is rules are set out for archery. If some one doesn't follow them they are poaching. Yes I belive that there are idiots out there that would hunt with a sharpend stick and they are giving the people who use the proper equipment a bad name. The bottem line is it is in the best intrest of all spear and atlatl hunters to have a legal and defined weapons for ethical and clean kills and to give all hunters a good name in general.
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"There's more fun in hunting with the handicap of the bow than there is in hunting with the sureness of the gun." -Fred Bear-
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03-25-2015, 06:47 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Copperhead Road, Morinville
Posts: 19,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinkhammer
Those are some really weak and pathetic arguments dmcbride. The point is rules are set out for archery. If some one doesn't follow them they are poaching. Yes I belive that there are idiots out there that would hunt with a sharpend stick and they are giving the people who use the proper equipment a bad name. The bottem line is it is in the best intrest of all spear and atlatl hunters to have a legal and defined weapons for ethical and clean kills and to give all hunters a good name in general.
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The ABA wants to ban them, not define what constitutes what they are.
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03-25-2015, 06:47 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Over That Hill
Posts: 3,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinkhammer
Those are some really weak and pathetic arguments dmcbride. The point is rules are set out for archery. If some one doesn't follow them they are poaching. Yes I belive that there are idiots out there that would hunt with a sharpend stick and they are giving the people who use the proper equipment a bad name. The bottem line is it is in the best intrest of all spear and atlatl hunters to have a legal and defined weapons for ethical and clean kills and to give all hunters a good name in general.
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Wow lol
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03-25-2015, 06:50 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
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The way we argue about each other's methods of hunting, it wouldn't surprise me if more education and proficiency tests will be the norm in future hunting.(not necessarily a bad thing). Example....throwing a spear at 15 yards and hitting a target 3 out of 4 times with a minimum amount of energy on target impact..... Another may be pulling a recurve bow back to 40lbs, holding it there for 20 seconds and then hitting a target 3 out 4 times at 30 yards..... Keep argueing. I for one have no problem with proficiency tests before new hunters are released into the field....
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03-25-2015, 06:55 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
The way we argue about each other's methods of hunting, it wouldn't surprise me if more education and proficiency tests will be the norm in future hunting.(not necessarily a bad thing). Example....throwing a spear at 15 yards and hitting a target 3 out of 4 times with a minimum amount of energy on target impact..... Another may be pulling a recurve bow back to 40lbs, holding it there for 20 seconds and then hitting a target 3 out 4 times at 30 yards..... Keep argueing. I for one have no problem with proficiency tests before new hunters are released into the field....
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I wouldn't call it arguing. More like defending.
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03-25-2015, 07:01 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edmhunter
Wow lol
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Your right I will snap out of it. I should realize the topics are pointless. The sad thing is this user group isn't comming up with real reasons to defend there weapons, just trying to point at other groups and what ifs and not address there issues. I don't spear hunt and with your guys attitude you should enjoy it while it lasts because you are not doing anything to maintain its future. Good luck with you spear hunting
__________________
"There's more fun in hunting with the handicap of the bow than there is in hunting with the sureness of the gun." -Fred Bear-
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03-25-2015, 07:07 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Over That Hill
Posts: 3,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinkhammer
Your right I will snap out of it. I should realize the topics are pointless. The sad thing is this user group isn't comming up with real reasons to defend there weapons, just trying to point at other groups and what ifs and not address there issues. I don't spear hunt and with your guys attitude you should enjoy it while it lasts because you are not doing anything to maintain its future. Good luck with you spear hunting
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To be honest I never thought of spear hunting before this thread. Now I have to do it! Which I am sure is going to cost me lots of $$$$$, I might even get killed. I hold AO directly responsible for that!!!
When I started to hunt bears with a bow, people said I was nutz, I thought they were for not trying it.
Just so you know, I think you are cool and we are similar, providing you like girlz and enjoy hunting
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03-25-2015, 07:09 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinkhammer
Your right I will snap out of it. I should realize the topics are pointless. The sad thing is this user group isn't comming up with real reasons to defend there weapons, just trying to point at other groups and what ifs and not address there issues. I don't spear hunt and with your guys attitude you should enjoy it while it lasts because you are not doing anything to maintain its future. Good luck with you spear hunting
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The point is all your questions can be redirected to archers as well. How do you defend someone not pulling a bow to full draw? Do we need to force all bow hunters to use a crossbow to make sure they are at enough draw weight?
I hope not.
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03-25-2015, 07:17 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinkhammer
Your right I will snap out of it. I should realize the topics are pointless. The sad thing is this user group isn't comming up with real reasons to defend there weapons, just trying to point at other groups and what ifs and not address there issues. I don't spear hunt and with your guys attitude you should enjoy it while it lasts because you are not doing anything to maintain its future. Good luck with you spear hunting
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There would be absolutely no need for folks who wanted to take to the field with a spear to "defend" their choice of weapon if they hadn't been openly attacked by another "hunting" organization. There was no issue till the ABA decided to make it one. It was a grossly irresponsible, myopic and spineless action that is continuing to be perpetuated by folks on this thread
I have no interest in hunting with a spear or an atlatl, but I will most certainly speak for sportsmen to have that choice.
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03-25-2015, 08:12 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistagin
Are you really suggesting crossbow users are going to go around shooting other hunters????? If so, what a stupid, dumbazz statement!
If so, I'd suggest you check out what using a crossbow is like. The same principles as conventional bowhunting apply. Gotta be close to the animal, in my case no further than 30-40 yards. Gotta pick your aim point just as carefully, etc., etc., etc.
I hear lots of 'talk' on this site where compound users brag about hitting pie plates at 100 yards, but I don't know of any crossbow users who do the same. It can be done, but certainly not ethically!
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No, but I see how it wasn't clear. I was referring to what happens when someone wants to hunt with a bow during a season allowing firearms.
And no it's not the same. Point and click off a bipod - is way easier than draw (movement in range of game), hold with muscular power, and shoot off hand.
But you and several other known gun/crossbow hunters have proved my point. As soon as the opportunity to attack bow hunters is available, you and your kind show up. So the backlash has little to do with atlatls, and everything to do with the hate-on for archery only seasons.
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“Nothing is more persistent than a liberal with a dumb idea” - Ebrand
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03-25-2015, 08:19 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Strathcona County
Posts: 2,170
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Is the proposed ban not on the premise that it is needed because there is no regulation? I see that as putting the onus on those interested to find adequate regulations and put forth a solid plan for the future of the sport. Archery wasn't permitted without regulation. This just evens the playing field and holds other groups to the same standard! You want to hunt? Use a regulated weapon.
This is painful reading through all the bickering. Focus on a goal together. I have not read one post saying it should be out-right banned. Stop pointing fingers, and work together. I must say, I now have more interest in a spear and atlatl, but if nobody comes up with regulations I won't know what I'm missing and I'll stick to my bow.
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