Well I am all for boycotting AHEIA and ACA if possible now!

[CanadianEh]

Originally Posted by chuck

I’m sure I could see drunken idiots all over you tube. Even injuring themselves and others. Do you think we will see a ban on alcohol? That is almost laughable to most. But what in the world is the difference?

If the video showed a drunk guy guy jumping in to his car and crashing it into a crowd of people would it still be ok?

The difference is having a drink and doing somthing stupid isn't synonymous with ethically killing something

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by CanadianEh

If the video showed a drunk guy guy jumping in to his car and crashing it into a crowd of people would it still be ok?

The difference is having a drink and doing somthing stupid isn't synonymous with ethically killing something

Sure it is. The difference is you like to drink.

And the guy wasn’t jumping into a crowd of people with a spear.

[CanadianEh]

You completely missed the point.

You asked what the difference is. The difference is ones pure purpose is causing death of an animal. The other is not.

Chuck, Your comparison between banning alcohol because of drunk idiots and the ethics of hunting with a spear are like comparing apples and surfboards.


And p.s. I'm not much of a drinker.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by CanadianEh

You completely missed the point.

You asked what the difference is. The difference is ones pure purpose is causing death of an animal. The other is not.

Chuck, Your comparison between banning alcohol because of drunk idiots and the ethics of hunting with a spear are like comparing apples and surfboards.


And p.s. I'm not much of a drinker.

This is a hunting forum. People here cause the death of animals.

[CanadianEh]

Exactly. Has absolutely nothing to do with your comparison at all. Glad you also see the light now.

[Pathfinder76]

Um no I do not see your way of thinking.

[CF8889]

The general public loves drinking and it is normal across all of North America. Hunting is not. The general public won't call for a ban that effects them... that's not how it works.

[TBark]

Gotta say I’m in agreement with CF8889 and Bub, Post #64.
I cannot support all types of hunting methods and in any state or country just because I’m a hunter.
Just because it will poke a hole we need to band together and support it ?
They drew the line on the spear, so be it.

TBark

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by nube

So now we have hunting groups fighting their own to shut down hunting lol No more spears in Alberta I guess. Not that it changes the way I hunt. I don't ever plan on using one but to take others right away to use one sure ticks me off. Anyone involved in these groups can give their heads a shake!


"In an interview with Postmedia, Environment Minister Shannon Phillips said the change is a result of extensive consultations with hunting associations, the Alberta Conservation Association and the Alberta Hunter Education Instructors’ Association."

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/poli...nting-big-game

Hunters vs Hunters. I'll say... Maybe, instead of banning spears we could have simply given them a Special Season .. like late season Elk or Archery only. That would be a similar format that the Bow Hunters and their Associations use to lobby against, and alienate , those other Archers choose to have X-Bows included in Archery season

As I see it , for the very same reasons that resulted in the elimination of Spears as a hunting tool in Alberta , those same reasons provide plenty of support for the inclusion of CrossBows in the Archery season. As indicated many times by the bowhunters , including those on this forum who support Spear hunting, they want X-Bows excluded from the Archery Only fraternity due to them being too powerful, too simple to use and much more efficient than a Compound Bow etc,etc..

Any chance there might be a double standard at work amongst Alberta's hunters?

Bob Loblaw

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by chuck

This is a hunting forum. People here cause the death of animals.

Yes we do cause the death of animals and the way that death is caused and the public perception of that death should concern us all.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by TBark

Gotta say I’m in agreement with CF8889 and Bub, Post #64.
I cannot support all types of hunting methods and in any state or country just because I’m a hunter.
Just because it will poke a hole we need to band together and support it ?
They drew the line on the spear, so be it.

TBark

I do not wish to tell anyone what to support or not. I will not give support to spear hunting.

[Mulehahn]

To me there is a huge difference between an individual supporting spear hunting or banning spear hunting. These 2 groups are directly responsible for new hunters and and preserving hunting opportunity. They should not of supported the loss of any hunting.

All of the arguments against a spear hold true to traditional archery in the face of compound bows. Compound bows face the same deficiencies in the face of crossbows. Crossbows bow down to rifles. If these groups are going to dupport this ban than how can they support anything?

[nube]

Originally Posted by Mulehahn

To me there is a huge difference between an individual supporting spear hunting or banning spear hunting. These 2 groups are directly responsible for new hunters and and preserving hunting opportunity. They should not of supported the loss of any hunting.

All of the arguments against a spear hold true to traditional archery in the face of compound bows. Compound bows face the same deficiencies in the face of crossbows. Crossbows bow down to rifles. If these groups are going to dupport this ban than how can they support anything?

Exactly!!!!!

[CF8889]

Bows can be regulated. It must be 40lb draw minimum to hunt with to produce an effective kill. There is no minimum "toss" for a spear.

[covey ridge]

I am not going to support anything that I do not think it is right especially when the idea comes from one whose first thought was to throw AHEIA under the bus.

[angery jonn]

So now that your going to boycott aheia, are you going to step up to the plate with new youth programs or a hunter training program? Just curious.

[covey ridge]

Are there many here that actually want to hunt with a spear? Or is all this about a sense of obligation to the spear chucker who claims to be a hunter and likes to pose on social media in bloody pictures with dead animals?

[huntinstuff]

My issue is the spineless, weakminded cowards who bow to this sort of self created “outrage”


A few hundred cry foul over some ******* American who essentially ended spear hunting in Alberta.

A foreigner initiates, and many other foreigners cry, AHEIA and others help tie the rope, set the chair, and hang everyone.

Cant WAIT until these same hand wringing pant ****ers go after bow hunters. Cant wait for that. But, it wont affect the 55yr old plus group there because their days afield will be over.

The wolf was at the door and, instead of shooting it, AHEIA and others fed it instead. How pathetic. How idiotic. How utterly cowardly. How damaging. How irresponsible.


Again. One of our supposed hunter support groups screws hunters. Typical of ANY club or group who doesnt change its leadership

Historically lots of good work. That wont change

Today though, my view changed. They will never get another minute of my time.

[CF8889]

Question for those upset about the ban. Hunting is regulated by ethics of fair chase and a clean kill.

Obviously fair chase is not an issue with spears haha.

But how do we regulated a clean ethical kill?

Rifles have min calibers, bows have min draw weights. For spears, how do we regulate a "force" that everyone must achieve? The difference in power between a skinny 17year old and a very fit 35year will be very different. How can we regulate that?

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by CF8889

Question for those upset about the ban. Hunting is regulated by ethics of fair chase and a clean kill.

Obviously fair chase is not an issue with spears haha.

But how do we regulated a clean ethical kill?

Rifles have min calibers, bows have min draw weights. For spears, how do we regulate a "force" that everyone must achieve? The difference in power between a skinny 17year old and a very fit 35year will be very different. How can we regulate that?

You can only request and reasonably expect a humane kill

Legislating it will ensure an end to hunting

We dont even kill (execute) HUMANS instantaneously

[CF8889]

Will still have standards. It's illegal to hunt a black bear with a .22lr. It's illegal to hunt a 6pt bull elk with a 20lbs bow.

What "standard" do we have for spears? Every other hunting tool has a minimum force requirement.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

You can only request and reasonably expect a humane kill

Legislating it will ensure an end to hunting

We dont even kill (execute) HUMANS instantaneously

It has nothing to do with instantaneous! Humane has more to do with minimizing suffering and distress. If we have not evolved past being Neanderthal we might just as well allow clubs and rocks and pits with sharpened sticks.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

we might just as well allow clubs and rocks and pits with sharpened sticks.

have they banned those too?

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

It has nothing to do with instantaneous! Humane has more to do with minimizing suffering and distress. If we have not evolved past being Neanderthal we might just as well allow clubs and rocks and pits with sharpened sticks.

You are right. I was just thinking 10 years ahead when, if you dont kill the animal instantaneously, you go to jail ........

[nube]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

My issue is the spineless, weakminded cowards who bow to this sort of self created “outrage”


A few hundred cry foul over some ******* American who essentially ended spear hunting in Alberta.

A foreigner initiates, and many other foreigners cry, AHEIA and others help tie the rope, set the chair, and hang everyone.

Cant WAIT until these same hand wringing pant ****ers go after bow hunters. Cant wait for that. But, it wont affect the 55yr old plus group there because their days afield will be over.

The wolf was at the door and, instead of shooting it, AHEIA and others fed it instead. How pathetic. How idiotic. How utterly cowardly. How damaging. How irresponsible.


Again. One of our supposed hunter support groups screws hunters. Typical of ANY club or group who doesnt change its leadership

Historically lots of good work. That wont change

Today though, my view changed. They will never get another minute of my time.

Wish I could say it so well as this. I agree 100%.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Originally Posted by nube

Wish I could say it so well as this. I agree 100%.

X2

[CanadianEh]

Sounds like you guys are just anti regulation of any kind. You feel you should be able to do what you want when you want. your upset that your choice for using a spear has been taken away. I can understand that.

The unfortunate truth is that 98%+ of the population on this planet are irreparably stupid. You see it every day, in every possible aspect of life. Because of this, People need a framework of regulations / laws to help guide the majority. Sometimes these rules are changed based on the actions of such people.

This is a very accurate thought.. From this source. A good read if you want to take a moment. http://www.google.ca/amp/s/qz.com/96...stupidity/amp/

" Stupid people share several identifying traits: they are abundant, they are irrational, and they cause problems for others without apparent benefit to themselves, thereby lowering society’s total well-being. There are no defenses against stupidity. The only way a society can avoid being crushed by the burden of its idiots is if the non-stupid work even harder to offset the losses of their stupid brethren. "

I am not saying that everyone who uses or wanted to use a spear as stupid. But one such person forsure ruined it for everyone. The blame here should be on the guy who tossed the spear, And filmed it for his ego and likes. Does anyone belive that Aheia would have been able to lobby to keep spears legal after that?

I don't.

[Wolftrapper]

Originally Posted by CanadianEh

Sounds like you guys are just anti regulation of any kind. You feel you should be able to do what you want when you want. your upset that your choice for using a spear has been taken away. I can understand that.

The unfortunate truth is that 98%+ of the population on this planet are irreparably stupid. You see it every day, in every possible aspect of life. Because of this, People need a framework of regulations / laws to help guide the majority. Sometimes these rules are changed based on the actions of such people.

This is a very accurate thought.. From this source. A good read if you want to take a moment. http://www.google.ca/amp/s/qz.com/96...stupidity/amp/

" Stupid people share several identifying traits: they are abundant, they are irrational, and they cause problems for others without apparent benefit to themselves, thereby lowering society’s total well-being. There are no defenses against stupidity. The only way a society can avoid being crushed by the burden of its idiots is if the non-stupid work even harder to offset the losses of their stupid brethren. "

I am not saying that everyone who uses or wanted to use a spear as stupid. But one such person forsure ruined it for everyone. The blame here should be on the guy who tossed the spear, And filmed it for his ego and likes. Does anyone belive that Aheia would have been able to lobby to keep spears legal after that?

I don't.

I agree. I don't think the battle could have been won. Who knows what went on behind the scenes as well.
I will continue to support them and other groups as I have for years.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Minimum standard are needed for any legal hunting means IMHO, the Alberta Atlatl Group should have made a case for their method, present it to the powers that be and collect support, spread education....I do not know if they tried to make sure their tools were presented prior to this change. I believe there were some folks who advised them to do this as it would be in their best interests.

LC

[dutch_m]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

My issue is the spineless, weakminded cowards who bow to this sort of self created “outrage”


A few hundred cry foul over some ******* American who essentially ended spear hunting in Alberta.

A foreigner initiates, and many other foreigners cry, AHEIA and others help tie the rope, set the chair, and hang everyone.

Cant WAIT until these same hand wringing pant ****ers go after bow hunters. Cant wait for that. But, it wont affect the 55yr old plus group there because their days afield will be over.

The wolf was at the door and, instead of shooting it, AHEIA and others fed it instead. How pathetic. How idiotic. How utterly cowardly. How damaging. How irresponsible.


Again. One of our supposed hunter support groups screws hunters. Typical of ANY club or group who doesnt change its leadership

Historically lots of good work. That wont change

Today though, my view changed. They will never get another minute of my time.

Exactly