…The Box Says So…

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Rman

No offence taken at all.
Why would you make a comment on the subject, when you have no first hand experience regarding it?

R.

You don't have to have hands on experience to have an opinion. If I read, numerous accounts, listen to others experiences, I can draw an opinion. I was once told people shouldn't run into burning buildings, I don't need to run into one myself to know it is not a very good idea, I'll take the word of others. Your opinion is no more credible than any other internet or 'Googler' opinion. I've read your opinion and many others, your opinion is in the minority of opinions I have encountered regarding the A-max with most folks saying they will go back to using bullets with more integrity for larger game like moose and elk. I suppose you think all the other folks who have used them who disagree with you somehow must have a faulty opinion or experience, you have your opinion, if I don't take your word as the ultimate authority, I'm sorry, I hope it doesn't offend you to badly if I consider your opinion just another 'GOOGLER' opinion.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

I kinda get a kick out of purgatory.sv weird ramblings. I think he may have done a little too much LSD in a short time frame back in the day.

I have just learned to ignore his dribble. Kind of like Yoda, but not as good looking.

It must take him 15-20 minutes to leaf through the thesaurus or think of clever ways of making a statement that has multiple interpretations and gets off on how "mysterious" and "magical" he is.

He is likely admiring himself and thinking how clever and witty he is as we speak.

I like fire too - it's nice and warm and I find it's a great way to roast a hot dog.

At least it's more entertaining versus annoying.

I like him.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

You don't have to have hands on experience to have an opinion. If I read, numerous accounts, listen to others experiences, I can draw an opinion. I was once told people shouldn't run into burning buildings, I don't need to run into one myself to know it is not a very good idea, I'll take the word of others. Your opinion is no more credible than any other internet or 'Googler' opinion. I've read your opinion and many others, your opinion is in the minority of opinions I have encountered regarding the A-max with most folks saying they will go back to using bullets with more integrity for larger game like moose and elk. I suppose you think all the other folks who have used them who disagree with you somehow must have a faulty opinion or experience, you have your opinion, if I don't take your word as the ultimate authority, I'm sorry, I hope it doesn't offend you to badly if I consider your opinion just another 'GOOGLER' opinion.

You should not try and reason with the stew licker, he only comes here to disagree with people and argue. He asks questions and never answes them. Use his insecure retorts as a source of amusement. I sure do!

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by EZM

I have just learned to ignore his dribble. Kind of like Yoda, but not as good looking.

It must take him 15-20 minutes to leaf through the thesaurus or think of clever ways of making a statement that has multiple interpretations and gets off on how "mysterious" and "magical" he is.

He is likely admiring himself and thinking how clever and witty he is as we speak.

I like fire too - it's nice and warm and I find it's a great way to roast a hot dog.

At least it's more entertaining versus annoying.

Yoda? I was more on the line of Rainman. Actually Purgatory.SV can you explain your online handle to us? In regards to the thread....AMAX's are awesome

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

I've read your opinion and many others, your opinion is in the minority of opinions I have encountered regarding the A-max with most folks saying they will go back to using bullets with more integrity for larger game like moose and elk.

great for deer hands down but a moose i would think twice about shooting with an amax.

unless it was a 338 lap. with an a max lol

[Jordan Smith]

I'm not saying anything about the politics in this link, but here is some evidence of the A-Max being used in military ammo.

https://www.intellihub.com/dhs-purch...08-ammunition/

Pages 110-127 are interesting discussing the use of A-Max bullets in LE and military sniper ammo. It also shows some penetration testing between different Hornady bullets, including the AM...

http://www.hornadyle.com/assets/site...tion-Guide.pdf

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Was it not the Hague Convention that addressed expanding bullets?

Yep, my bad.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

great for deer hands down but a moose i would think twice about shooting with an amax.

unless it was a 338 lap. with an a max lol

That being said, I have used 140gr Bergers on moose with amazing results. I believe the AMAX and Bergers are similar in terminal performance?

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

your opinion is in the minority of opinions I have encountered regarding the A-max with most folks saying they will go back to using bullets with more integrity for larger game like moose and elk.

Then you must not have encountered very many. I've read dozens and dozens of guys talk about using the A-Max for hunting, and I've seen very few of those regret that choice.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

I'm not saying anything about the politics in this link, but here is some evidence of the A-Max being used in military ammo.

https://www.intellihub.com/dhs-purch...08-ammunition/

Pages 110-127 are interesting discussing the use of A-Max bullets in LE and military sniper ammo...

http://www.hornadyle.com/assets/site...tion-Guide.pdf

Neat, thanks for posting!

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

That being said, I have used 140gr Bergers on moose with amazing results. I believe the AMAX and Bergers are similar in terminal performance?

Yes, but the A-Max penetrates farther, on average.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

Pages 110-127 are interesting discussing the use of A-Max bullets in LE and military sniper ammo. It also shows some penetration testing between different Hornady bullets, including the AM...

http://www.hornadyle.com/assets/site...tion-Guide.pdf

that is a fantastic link thank-you

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

That being said, I have used 140gr Bergers on moose with amazing results. I believe the AMAX and Bergers are similar in terminal performance?

i might think twice but the best gun for the job is the one in your hands

i wouldn't try to "end for end" a moose with an a max, i would wait for a nice high percentage broadside shot.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Neat, thanks for posting!

I didn't see where it said it was going to be used by the regular military, but by Homeland Security.
Corrections Canada uses hollow point ammo as well, has been for over 20 years that I know of for sure.
I don't see the big deal about it.

Cat

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i might think twice but the best gun for the job is the one in your hands

i wouldn't try to "end for end" a moose with an a max, i would wait for a nice high broadside shot.

I would personally never try the ol Texas Heart Shot on anything with anything. I have seen first hand the mess inside when ya go to knock the guts out! I am considering working up a load of Accubonds to replace the Bergers but the damn things work way too well.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

You should not try and reason with the stew licker, he only comes here to disagree with people and argue. He asks questions and never answes them. Use his insecure retorts as a source of amusement. I sure do!

an opinion shared by many.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by EZM

I have just learned to ignore his dribble. Kind of like Yoda, but not as good looking.

It must take him 15-20 minutes to leaf through the thesaurus or think of clever ways of making a statement that has multiple interpretations and gets off on how "mysterious" and "magical" he is.

He is likely admiring himself and thinking how clever and witty he is as we speak.

I like fire too - it's nice and warm and I find it's a great way to roast a hot dog.

At least it's more entertaining versus annoying.

I like him.

Hours ,most don’t work.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

I have seen first hand the mess inside when ya go to knock the guts out! I am considering working up a load of Accubonds to replace the Bergers but the damn things work way too well.

haha never cleaned a gut shot deer but i've watched and laughed.

i'm a big fan of bonded bullets, i see them as the best of both worlds.

i'm having good luck with the long range accubonds out of the 28 nosler. i need to shoot something with it now

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I didn't see where it said it was going to be used by the regular military, but by Homeland Security.
Corrections Canada uses hollow point ammo as well, has been for over 20 years that I know of for sure.
I don't see the big deal about it.

Cat

HP ammo, like the Sierra MK, that isn't advertised as expanding, has been used in international warfare forever, and doesn't violate the Hague Convention. When a manufacturer advertises a bullet as excellent for use on thin-skinned game, they are implying that it is designed to expand. If they want to sell that bullet to the military, they need to stop saying that it's meant for expansion.

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i might think twice but the best gun for the job is the one in your hands

i wouldn't try to "end for end" a moose with an a max, i would wait for a nice high percentage broadside shot.

That's why I like to run around with a mag full of TTSX bullets...

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

That's why I like to run around with a mag full of TTSX bullets...

oh noooooo... i've shot so many of the darn things and i hate them more than ever. i don't care who uses them and what animals they've killed there was nothing enjoyable about shooting them.

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

HP ammo, like the Sierra MK, that isn't advertised as expanding, has been used in international warfare forever, and doesn't violate the Hague Convention. When a manufacturer advertises a bullet as excellent for use on thin-skinned game, they are implying that it is designed to expand. If they want to sell that bullet to the military, they need to stop saying that it's meant for expansion.

they kind of do

The A-MAX bullet incorporates a polymer tip material that maintains match accuracy and initiates expansion across a broad range of target materials and media. When the polymer tip of the A-MAX bullet contacts the barrier or target media it is driven into the hollow point of the bullet nose forcing the bullet core and jacket to open outward. This mushrooming expansion is consistent due to the initiation by the polymer tip not found in the BTHP design. The consistency of the tip initiated expansion results in much more reliable penetration results across different barriers and target media.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

HP ammo, like the Sierra MK, that isn't advertised as expanding, has been used in international warfare forever, and doesn't violate the Hague Convention. When a manufacturer advertises a bullet as excellent for use on thin-skinned game, they are implying that it is designed to expand. If they want to sell that bullet to the military, they need to stop saying that it's meant for expansion.

The Hague Convention along with a bunch of other "conventions" and mandates are nothing but a bunch of hogwash politically correct pieces of crap IMO!
They are there for some countries to feel good about themselves and say " look at us, we are ethical" while breaking every dammed clause there is by going through the back door or simply disregarding them.
They reaqlly are a bunch o0f crap and the United nations is a big joke these days as well.
Everybody that has ever had anything to do with Match Kings, etc., know what they do and that they are anything but " non expanding"!
I never could get the idea behind shooting someone with a FMJ bullet jacket and calling it " humane"anyway, they tumble like crazy !

However, sorry for the derail, this is a hunting forum not a war forum.
Cat

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

oh noooooo... i've shot so many of the darn things and i hate them more than ever. i don't care who uses them and what animals they've killed there was nothing enjoyable about shooting them.

What is behind your dislike of Barnes?

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

What is behind your dislike of Barnes?

accuracy was ok often times very good but...i only ever shot yotes with them because i lost my confidence and i couldn't trust the bullets to shoot without a super clean bore. i HATED the fouling, even in lapped barrels i was getting serious copper fouling. in some rifles i had like 6 shots before it would foul badly and not group inside of 12" @ 100. i hunt with a slightly dirty gun because dirty guns are consistent and i couldn't do that. it took forever to find loads because i had to clean all the time. it was the biggest most expensive bother of my shooting career.

the price sucks.

in addition the velocity of it opening and inconsistent reports i decided i was better off going bonded for bigger game and have not had an issue ever.

then the varmint grenades i think i have a couple thousand sitting on my bench because they wont shoot in any of my rifles and trust me i've tried! i've started using them in my sling shot with decent results.

[elkhunter11]

. i HATED the fouling, even in lapped barrels i was getting serious copper fouling. in some rifles i had like 6 shots before it would foul badly and not group inside of 12" @ 100.

The original Barnes X fouled badly in some rifles, but I haven't seen that with any of the newer series of Barnes bullets.
I have used the TTSX/TSX/LRX and MRX in about a dozen rifles, and I have yet to experience abnormal copper fouling in any of them. All of them will easily shoot well under moa for twenty rounds or more.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The original Barnes X fouled badly in some rifles, but I haven't seen that with any of the newer series of Barnes bullets.
I have used the TTSX/TSX/LRX and MRX in about a dozen rifles, and I have yet to experience abnormal copper fouling in any of them. All of them will easily shoot well under moa for twenty rounds or more.

i know... you say that every time... and neither of our opinions change.

and then i say that i had different results in an obscene number of rifles and nothing is ever settled. it's a great big circle.

i will admit i haven't shot barnes bullets in more than 5 years so if something has changed or is new since then i haven't shot it and wont shoot it. actually i'm getting pretty close to having all my ttsx and tsx bullets sold.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i know... you say that every time... and neither of our opinions change.

and then i say that i had different results in an obscene number of rifles and nothing is ever settled. it's a great big circle.

i will admit i haven't shot barnes bullets in more than 5 years so if something has changed or is new since then i haven't shot it and wont shoot it. actually i'm getting pretty close to having all my ttsx and tsx bullets sold.

Your experiences seem to be in the very , very small minority when it comes to modern Barnes bullets. I find it hard to believe that one person can be so unlucky as far as copper fouling is concerned, unless you are somehow contributing to the problem.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Your experiences seem to be in the very , very small minority when it comes to modern Barnes bullets. I find it hard to believe that one person can be so unlucky as far as copper fouling is concerned, unless you are somehow contributing to the problem.

i doubt it's the case that i'm the only person in the world that saw bad fouling with tsx bullets. you probably just don't know what you're looking at

just a perk of going through many many boxes to tsx and ttsx bullets.

contributing to the problem? as in adding extra copper to the bullet so that it can foul my barrel? rapid firing? not cleaning my rifle correctly?

no. i'm not doing any of that

*that poke at you was a joke btw

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

The Hague Convention along with a bunch of other "conventions" and mandates are nothing but a bunch of hogwash politically correct pieces of crap IMO!
They are there for some countries to feel good about themselves and say " look at us, we are ethical" while breaking every dammed clause there is by going through the back door or simply disregarding them.
They reaqlly are a bunch o0f crap and the United nations is a big joke these days as well.
Everybody that has ever had anything to do with Match Kings, etc., know what they do and that they are anything but " non expanding"!
I never could get the idea behind shooting someone with a FMJ bullet jacket and calling it " humane"anyway, they tumble like crazy !

However, sorry for the derail, this is a hunting forum not a war forum.
Cat

Agreed.

[duceman]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

accuracy was ok often times very good but...i only ever shot yotes with them because i lost my confidence and i couldn't trust the bullets to shoot without a super clean bore. i HATED the fouling, even in lapped barrels i was getting serious copper fouling. in some rifles i had like 6 shots before it would foul badly and not group inside of 12" @ 100. i hunt with a slightly dirty gun because dirty guns are consistent and i couldn't do that. it took forever to find loads because i had to clean all the time. it was the biggest most expensive bother of my shooting career.

the price sucks.

in addition the velocity of it opening and inconsistent reports i decided i was better off going bonded for bigger game and have not had an issue ever.

then the varmint grenades i think i have a couple thousand sitting on my bench because they wont shoot in any of my rifles and trust me i've tried! i've started using them in my sling shot with decent results.

loaded barnes for several guys, get pics of happy shooters and dead critters every season. i will agree with you on the varmint grenades, total garbage in my experience. never been able to get anywhere near hunting accuracy from them in several rifles i've tried them in.
if you have any barnes fro sale, (except for the varmint grenades), i may interested in buying them from you, lee