Terror Attack in Florida

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Something needs to be done.

I think a licensing system and background checks is what they need. But that's it. So criminals and people on the no fly list can't buy guns.

No. People are placed on the no-fly list on a whim, with no real reason at all.

There is a problem. A people problem. Life has become cheap. Find the reason behind that and you will be able to find a solution.

[JimPS]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Where is this information coming from?
Working got a security service is hardly the same as Shomekand security .
Cat

It appears the alleged shooter was just a G4S security grunt.

His daddy is the one who would have relationships with the "spooks" - apparently a candidate for upcoming Afghan presidential elections and the front man for a number of American business interests.

[diamond k]

Originally Posted by Newview01

When someone forms an opinion based on the biased media we have today, I consider them uneducated. I will not be considerate of those who want to take away our means of defense.

Your kidding right?

Certainly CNN is a little left of center and Fox is a little right of center but when you have guys quoting the Drudge report and Breitbart and calling out me for being uneducated because of biased news coverage than you have an issue with reality.

I never said take away your right to defend. I am a huge advocate of hand gun legislation to be able to own and carry in Canada but are you going to defend your self with an AK. Are you planning to take it with you shopping in case someone decided to shoot up WEM?

One or two guys in that club with a handgun may have stopped this whole thing from getting to the magnitude it did. Having the ability to get an AK helped facilitate this guys ability to commit.

[elkhunter11]

Having the ability to get an AK helped facilitate this guys ability to commit.

He didn't use an AK, he used a semi auto AR-15 variant.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Newview01

It shouldn't be a gun issue. We have been brainwashed to make it a gun issue.

You are right it is not a gun issue it is a terrorism issue
Cat

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by diamond k

I agree with most of what you say but it the gun used in this attack is part of the conversation. It is a gun issue as much as it is an issue with mental instability and those with radical convictions.

By the way don't be too quick to condone just Muslims. Some idiot politician from Texas piped up and said that this was gods will to kill the gays and I am quite sure he is not a Muslim

Originally Posted by catnthehat

From what I read, ISIL was referenced in the 911 call , plus ISIL taking credit for it, yup, I would call that a terrorist attack.

BTW, for those that don't realize it , terrorists don't care what the motivation is when it comes to religion , be they Catholic, Protesrant , Muslim or any faction thereof .
Cat

Originally Posted by fitzy

Ok. So what's your answer? Ban religion or just certain ones? Maybe just certain thoughts?

You can't really fight an ideal or belief, especially on the short term but if it's true that a guy on the FBI watch list bought an AR15 a truck load of ammo and oversized clips a week ago it's tough to argue that everything is a-ok down there.

Just my thoughts though.

Diamond K, I don't just condemn Muslims, historically most wars were initiated by religions with state backing. Terrorism isn't new. However, in our time, there is a strong correlation between a particular religion and many many acts of terrorism. If that religion policed it's own, and condemned the actions of the radicals, it might go a long way to finding a solution. This is not the case for the most part. This also addresses Cats rightful observation of religious atrocity. Look at what happened in Ireland for many year with the IRA and Provos, and Brits. It was absolutely the result of mothers with dead sons who said 'ENOUGH!!' that brought that to a close.

Fitzy, I don't have an answer. Those who are part of the Religion of Peace need to come up with the answer, in order to validate their claim of being about love and peace. Nothing else will get it done, even bombing 'them' back to the Stone Age, or making a glass parking lot of the middle east as has been suggested by many......

It's a sickening situation, but we are trying to combat an ideological, radically motivated group of hate filled individuals, with political correctness. How's that working out....ask folks in Orlando.

[diamond k]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

You are right it is not a gun issue it is a terrorism issue
Cat

In this case and most of these shootings I think it is not possible to simplify to that degree.

The evidence does show that in almost all of these mass killings in the USA in the past couple of years a weapon that is generalized as an assault weapon with large capacity magazines were used.

I think that Gun owners ( Yes I am firmly in that group) have been made so paranoid by groups like the NRA that if we give an inch to gun control than we will lose the ability to own weapons that we don't look objectively at the situation.

I am still waiting for one person to give me a reasonable explanation to why civilians need a weapon that has magazine capacities 20, 50 100 ?

" Cause its my right " is not a justification.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by diamond k

In this case and most of these shootings I think it is not possible to simplify to that degree.

The evidence does show that in almost all of these mass killings in the USA in the past couple of years a weapon that is generalized as an assault weapon with large capacity magazines were used.

I think that Gun owners ( Yes I am firmly in that group) have been made so paranoid by groups like the NRA that if we give an inch to gun control than we will lose the ability to own weapons that we don't look objectively at the situation.

I am still waiting for one person to give me a reasonable explanation to why civilians need a weapon that has magazine capacities 20, 50 100 ?

" Cause its my right " is not a justification.

It's not an issue of 'need' or 'my right'. Those who obey the law, will obey the law whether they have hi cap mags, or back pack nukes. Those who are bent on committing acts of terrorism will do so whether or not they can obtain these 'assault' rifles and hi cap mags. Look at the Boston Marathon bombers. They committed an act of terrorism and killed innocents as well, using something that was already illegal. Are you going to ban 3/4" galvanized pipe and caps as well?

We are already under restrictions for magazine capacity, and what firearms we can own etc. These acts of terrorism just prove that legislation is an ineffective means of curbing deviant human behaviour. I'm not worried or paranoid about a government gun grab or more laws. I just know that it won't solve anything, it never has. Frankly, I despair of anything being able to curb deviant and uncivilized human behaviour. History bears me out, that nothing stops people from committing destructive and hateful acts against other humans. That's why I believe we should be equipped to defend ourselves. God knows the cops won't do it.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by diamond k

In this case and most of these shootings I think it is not possible to simplify to that degree.

The evidence does show that in almost all of these mass killings in the USA in the past couple of years a weapon that is generalized as an assault weapon with large capacity magazines were used.

I think that Gun owners ( Yes I am firmly in that group) have been made so paranoid by groups like the NRA that if we give an inch to gun control than we will lose the ability to own weapons that we don't look objectively at the situation.

I am still waiting for one person to give me a reasonable explanation to why civilians need a weapon that has magazine capacities 20, 50 100 ?

" Cause its my right " is not a justification.

You are putting way too much trust in our dear leaders.

[diamond k]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Diamond K, I don't just condemn Muslims, historically most wars were initiated by religions with state backing. Terrorism isn't new. However, in our time, there is a strong correlation between a particular religion and many many acts of terrorism. If that religion policed it's own, and condemned the actions of the radicals, it might go a long way to finding a solution. This is not the case for the most part. This also addresses Cats rightful observation of religious atrocity. Look at what happened in Ireland for many year with the IRA and Provos, and Brits. It was absolutely the result of mothers with dead sons who said 'ENOUGH!!' that brought that to a close.

Fitzy, I don't have an answer. Those who are part of the Religion of Peace need to come up with the answer, in order to validate their claim of being about love and peace. Nothing else will get it done, even bombing 'them' back to the Stone Age, or making a glass parking lot of the middle east as has been suggested by many......

It's a sickening situation, but we are trying to combat an ideological, radically motivated group of hate filled individuals, with political correctness. How's that working out....ask folks in Orlando.

I agree with everything you say and I don't know how to combat the ISIS terrorists. If I thought that blowing the crap out of them would work I would be first in line but we are fight a radical group of terrorist who have take a religion and bastardized it to make it an excuse to commit heinous crimes. They don't come from one county, many are home grown and we cant fight an enemy we cant see. It is a terrible problem that unfortunately I don't think we can ever win. ISIS/ISIL is just the latest reincarnation of the same group that has been around for decades.

Short of sending back everyone from middle east how do we combat. This guy was a US born citizen. What next send back all the Germans because they might have ties to Nazism. Whether this was a true terrorist attack or a cover for a disturbed individual to go a killing spree may never be know and if this attack could have been prevented will never be known. My comments were instead of making the tools readily available to commit lets make the ability to high capacity magazines and rifles to the military and the police and give everyone who wants to defend themselves the ability to have a reasonable weapon in their hands.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by diamond k

In this case and most of these shootings I think it is not possible to simplify to that degree.

The evidence does show that in almost all of these mass killings in the USA in the past couple of years a weapon that is generalized as an assault weapon with large capacity magazines were used.

I think that Gun owners ( Yes I am firmly in that group) have been made so paranoid by groups like the NRA that if we give an inch to gun control than we will lose the ability to own weapons that we don't look objectively at the situation.

I am still waiting for one person to give me a reasonable explanation to why civilians need a weapon that has magazine capacities 20, 50 100 ?

" Cause its my right " is not a justification.

They are not assault weapons.

They are not high capacity magazines.

If we give an inch, they will take a mile.

[Supergrit]

Guns make it to easy at least if it was a 5 or 10 shot clip the damge would not have been so large. I'm so glad that Canada has some restrictions at least make it a little harder for crazies to access these weapons.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by diamond k

In this case and most of these shootings I think it is not possible to simplify to that degree.

The evidence does show that in almost all of these mass killings in the USA in the past couple of years a weapon that is generalized as an assault weapon with large capacity magazines were used.

I think that Gun owners ( Yes I am firmly in that group) have been made so paranoid by groups like the NRA that if we give an inch to gun control than we will lose the ability to own weapons that we don't look objectively at the situation.

I am still waiting for one person to give me a reasonable explanation to why civilians need a weapon that has magazine capacities 20, 50 100 ?

" Cause its my right " is not a justification.

Actually although the media often refers to them as "assault" weapons, in most cases the rifle of choice is not actually an assault rifle. And these rifles usually have 20 to 30 round magazines, 50 or 100 round magazines are quite rare. I personally used an AR-15 as my truck gun for coyotes, before the AR-15 was made restricted, and I carried a 20 round magazine, because by doing so, I didn't have to carry any other ammunition with me. It was convenient, and in those days, we didn't hear about those rifles being used in shootings, even though pretty much anyone could buy one and carry it in their vehicle as I did.

Guns make it to easy at least if it was a 5 or 10 shot clip the damge would not have been so large. I'm so glad that Canada has some restrictions at least make it a little harder for crazies to access these weapons.

It takes about two seconds to change a magazine, so when a person is shooting people for minutes or hours, two seconds is insignificant.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by diamond k

I agree with everything you say and I don't know how to combat the ISIS terrorists. If I thought that blowing the crap out of them would work I would be first in line but we are fight a radical group of terrorist who have take a religion and bastardized it to make it an excuse to commit heinous crimes. They don't come from one county, many are home grown and we cant fight an enemy we cant see. It is a terrible problem that unfortunately I don't think we can ever win. ISIS/ISIL is just the latest reincarnation of the same group that has been around for decades.

Short of sending back everyone from middle east how do we combat. This guy was a US born citizen. What next send back all the Germans because they might have ties to Nazism. Whether this was a true terrorist attack or a cover for a disturbed individual to go a killing spree may never be know and if this attack could have been prevented will never be known. My comments were instead of making the tools readily available to commit lets make the ability to high capacity magazines and rifles to the military and the police and give everyone who wants to defend themselves the ability to have a reasonable weapon in their hands.

An AR pistol with a STANDARD capacity 30 rd magazine is how I feel I can best protect myself and those around me. Who are you to say that is unreasonable?

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

Guns make it to easy at least if it was a 5 or 10 shot clip the damge would not have been so large. I'm so glad that Canada has some restrictions at least make it a little harder for crazies to access these weapons.

Troll?

[V_1]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Looking at the statements from Obama, Trudeau and other leaders, they are avoiding any mention of ISIS or of this being a terrorist attack by a muslim. They are ignoring those details, and are addressing this as an attack on gays, a simple hate crime.

It's not 2016. It's 1938 again or so. Then Phoney War will come, new version tho. We all know what follows.

[diamond k]

Originally Posted by Newview01

An AR pistol with a STANDARD capacity 30 rd magazine is how I feel I can best protect myself and those around me. Who are you to say that is unreasonable?

I guess that is up to what the majority of the population thinks is reasonable. my opinion is that 5 rounds in a magazine is reasonable but just my opinion. Yours in obviously different and that is fine. Time will tell I guess where it ends up.

Remember when seatbelt use was instituted into law. There was cries for civil disobedience and outrage at govt forcing us to do this. Now most of realize that it is in the best interest to wear them and most people do. At some point I hope that we are in Canada given the right to own AND carry a firearm. I also hope that in North America the ability and right to own large capacity semi automatic and automatic guns is reserved for military or law officials.

Sadly I don't think we will se either in my lifetime.

[bat119]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

Guns make it to easy at least if it was a 5 or 10 shot clip the damge would not have been so large. I'm so glad that Canada has some restrictions at least make it a little harder for crazies to access these weapons.

The gunman had 3 hours to change magazines
wouldn't have mattered if they were 5 or 50, if one person had a carry permit they could have stopped the carnage

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

Guns make it to easy at least if it was a 5 or 10 shot clip the damge would not have been so large. I'm so glad that Canada has some restrictions at least make it a little harder for crazies to access these weapons.

That's just too funny. The shooter had 3 hours to change/load magazines (not clips, that's just an ignorance of firearms to call them that). With training, a person can swap mags in a pistol or rifle in seconds, regardless of capacity. Give your head a shake, and go troll elsewhere.

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by diamond k

In this case and most of these shootings I think it is not possible to simplify to that degree.

The evidence does show that in almost all of these mass killings in the USA in the past couple of years a weapon that is generalized as an assault weapon with large capacity magazines were used.

I think that Gun owners ( Yes I am firmly in that group) have been made so paranoid by groups like the NRA that if we give an inch to gun control than we will lose the ability to own weapons that we don't look objectively at the situation.

I am still waiting for one person to give me a reasonable explanation to why civilians need a weapon that has magazine capacities 20, 50 100 ?

" Cause its my right " is not a justification.

Why do you need a sports car that will do 200km hr when the limit is only 110. Driving is a privilege not a right where as owning a gun down here IS a right. I don't expect you to understand but seeing as how someone wants a car with those performance features why not let them have it? Just because it's capable of breaking the limit doesn't mean they will and firearms are responsible for far fewer deaths then vehicles. The vast majority of arms owners are law abiding only a slim fraction aren't yet they get a disproportional amount of media coverage. Just shows where societies priorities are.

[Supergrit]

Hey if a person gets there kicks off shooting these rifles so be it that's fine 10 rounds is enough. To me fire arms are a tool to hunt with protect myself in forest. I would like to use hand gun while out hiking but in Canada that is not allowed because our govement made more rules on packing these type of weapons there fore I use a defender shot gun. The defender is much heavier and bulky then hand gun but I'd rather have to carry this gun then have the gun laws in the United States.
That's great that people enjoy hand guns and semi aoitomatic rifles at the gun range. Making it a little harder for people to get these weapons is fine by me. Maybe Canadian laws might stop one crazy person out of twenty from getting these guns.which will save at least some human life.

[SD1797]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

Hey if a person gets there kicks off shooting these rifles so be it that's fine 10 rounds is enough. To me fire arms are a tool to hunt with protect myself in forest. I would like to use hand gun while out hiking but in Canada that is not allowed because our govement made more rules on packing these type of weapons there fore I use a defender shot gun. The defender is much heavier and bulky then hand gun but I'd rather have to carry this gun then have the gun laws in the United States.
That's great that people enjoy hand guns and semi aoitomatic rifles at the gun range. Making it a little harder for people to get these weapons is fine by me. Maybe Canadian laws might stop one crazy person out of twenty from getting these guns.which will save at least some human life.

Yes because criminals can't find guns

[TreeGuy]

Dozens of innocents were slaughtered. Again.... Can we at least not give them 24 hours of respect before wading into the inevitable ideological debate?

Prayers for the fallen.

[300magman]

Originally Posted by diamond k

I agree with everything you say and I don't know how to combat the ISIS terrorists. If I thought that blowing the crap out of them would work I would be first in line but we are fight a radical group of terrorist who have take a religion and bastardized it to make it an excuse to commit heinous crimes. They don't come from one county, many are home grown and we cant fight an enemy we cant see. It is a terrible problem that unfortunately I don't think we can ever win. ISIS/ISIL is just the latest reincarnation of the same group that has been around for decades.

Short of sending back everyone from middle east how do we combat. This guy was a US born citizen. What next send back all the Germans because they might have ties to Nazism. Whether this was a true terrorist attack or a cover for a disturbed individual to go a killing spree may never be know and if this attack could have been prevented will never be known. My comments were instead of making the tools readily available to commit lets make the ability to high capacity magazines and rifles to the military and the police and give everyone who wants to defend themselves the ability to have a reasonable weapon in their hands.

Seems like a good start

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

Guns make it to easy at least if it was a 5 or 10 shot clip the damge would not have been so large. I'm so glad that Canada has some restrictions at least make it a little harder for crazies to access these weapons.

Originally Posted by Supergrit

Hey if a person gets there kicks off shooting these rifles so be it that's fine 10 rounds is enough. To me fire arms are a tool to hunt with protect myself in forest. I would like to use hand gun while out hiking but in Canada that is not allowed because our govement made more rules on packing these type of weapons there fore I use a defender shot gun. The defender is much heavier and bulky then hand gun but I'd rather have to carry this gun then have the gun laws in the United States.
That's great that people enjoy hand guns and semi aoitomatic rifles at the gun range. Making it a little harder for people to get these weapons is fine by me. Maybe Canadian laws might stop one crazy person out of twenty from getting these guns.which will save at least some human life.

Yes. Thank God for rivets.


Easily the most ignorant posts of the day. If your ideology is driven by your emotional response instead of a practical understanding of a subject I will politely ask that you a) stop breeding and b) stop voting.

[762Russian]

Originally Posted by 300magman

Seems like a good start

Also anyone of Irish descent. The IRA still bubbles below the surface, after all. Germans obviously need to go. Any Serbians need to be deported immediately, Bosnians, too. Russians? gettem out quick.

Really, the only suitable way to ensure our safety is to deport everyone back to their original countries from whence their families came, since every last culture on this planet has perpetrated bloody violence against others.

If it saves just one life, right?

[sailor]

ISIS claims responsibility for Orlando nightclub shooting
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0YY0VU

[deerguy]

Originally Posted by 762Russian

Also anyone of Irish descent. The IRA still bubbles below the surface, after all. Germans obviously need to go. Any Serbians need to be deported immediately, Bosnians, too. Russians? gettem out quick.

Really, the only suitable way to ensure our safety is to deport everyone back to their original countries from whence their families came, since every last culture on this planet has perpetrated bloody violence against others.

If it saves just one life, right?

Always has to be one in the bunch.

People, this attitude right here is why these problems will keep happening. Until you are ready to offend someone nothing will change.

[Mangosteen]

And then you get this type of crap being spread around the Internet from Toronto by Goldenberg. Some kind of Lawyer but of course with a special interest. Now the problem perceived is not ISIS but gun ownership.

So sad that we have these twisted points of view. I guess maybe he wants to disarm Canada? Bad propaganda in the wrong hands.


"This didn't happen because the shooter was Muslim. It happened because the victims were gay. And because the shooter had an assault rifle."

20 hours ago - Twitter

[pitw]

Originally Posted by HighlandHeart

Senseless tragedy no matter what the motivation is behind it. Another mass shooting in a gun free zone. I remember back in the eighties when mass shootings like this were rare. I wonder what has changed so much.

Number one change has been technology.