Crown land used by oil companies for private hunts

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by StuartD

Went out to Laglace a couple of weeks ago and the ENCANA Sexsmith plant had the gates locked to the crown land. Once you got back there using quad trails we found the management locked the gates so their employees and family could have a private hunting area. Camps were set up and Elk being slaughtered. Where in the hell are the fish cops on this type of abuse? Oh wait they are there just to hit me and you.

I agree with everyone that says this is pure speculation, guesses, inuendo and made up assumptions. I find it hard to believe what you have said here without any facts, video, photos or F&W case being processed in the courts.

This is just another industry bashing exercise by some that jump on the wagon faster than you can say global warming.

Seriously. At the very least you should send your photos and video with date and witness evidence to Encana corporate office, cc their president and public communications office as well as cc a few local media email addresses. If you hold true to these "facts" stand up and expose yourself to examination rather than say these things over an internet forum.

You don't effect change with whining but you can by going to the route of the problem. I guarantee you that if what you said happened...Encana management would not be appreciative of the behavior.

[AndrewM]

The company pays for road access and the company pays to build the road.
I wish the road was contingent on what you make in oil revenue! I just had to kill a well that will definitely produce oil for us but to get a road in will cost us $900,000 for a road with a bridge or else $110,000 just for an ice bridge.

The ground is leased that the road is on. The company pays to lease the road and to build the road. So YES they have been granted a right to use the crown land.

The public did not pay for that road for one cent!

Please get your facts straight as someone might actually believe you know what you are talking about.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Encana management would not be appreciative of the behavior.

No doubt. Just the PR alone would scare the begeesus out of management. Phone the number on the sign if you actually suspect this is happening.

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by hal53

I'm at my rig right now and don't have the time to explain it all, I will later once the crew is done for the day. In the mean time, explain to me what on earth royalties have to do with the surface rights lease???

Let's keep the discussion to crown land only..first.
Are you telling me that oil companies pay to tge crown a surface lease payment for the road right of ways they use? And for the well site? As well as the royalty for the oil production volume? And that the cost of production (if there is a road lease) is NOT an allowable cost to be deducted against the royalty payment? And that the road building capital is not a return earning deduction offset against royalty payments?

I will wait for your reply at your convenience. Heading to poker, so might not jump back in till much later.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

Let's keep the discussion to crown land only..first.
Are you telling me that oil companies pay to tge crown a surface lease payment for the road right of ways they use? And for the well site? As well as the royalty for the oil production volume? And that the cost of production (if there is a road lease) is NOT an allowable cost to be deducted against the royalty payment? And that the road building capital is not a return earning deduction offset against royalty payments?

I will wait for your reply at your convenience. Heading to poker, so might not jump back in till much later.

You have finally got it correct!!!! Same as on private land.

[Walleyedude]

Wow, the lack of knowledge about how the oil&gas regulations work is pretty staggering. So is the hypocrisy in a lot of these responses.

What's more disturbing is that those with the most animosity and the most aggressive posts seem to have the least understanding, of both the regs and basic logic. Unfortunately that seems to be pertty common these days, all to often the one that yells the loudest and makes the most fuss wins, regardless of who's actually right.

Get your facts straight people, this is simple and readily available public info.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

Let's keep the discussion to crown land only..first.
Are you telling me that oil companies pay to tge crown a surface lease payment for the road right of ways they use? And for the well site? As well as the royalty for the oil production volume? And that the cost of production (if there is a road lease) is NOT an allowable cost to be deducted against the royalty payment? And that the road building capital is not a return earning deduction offset against royalty payments?

I will wait for your reply at your convenience. Heading to poker, so might not jump back in till much later.

Royalties are set with deductions for processing and transportation NOT road building capital. Some high risk, high cost areas have royalty reductions to offset drilling costs...but this is not the norm.

Also all roads built to leases in which the wells are dry...no oil or gas is a straight loss to the companies bottom line...which is why right now many companies are struggling with losses to the bottom line of -10% or worse...and some of the better companies are making a profit of 4-6%.

These costs are significant and go into the economic engine that is driving jobs and prosperity. It pays salaries, spin off businesses, regional infrastructure taxes etc.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

Heading to poker, so might not jump back in till much later.

Remember to know when to hold em and when to fold em.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn481KcjvMo

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Remember to know when to hold em and when to fold em.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn481KcjvMo

But I do count my money at the table.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

But I do count my money at the table.

Royalty explanation found here on page 19:

http://www.energy.alberta.ca/Tenure/pdfs/FISREG.pdf

Note: There is no deductions for expenses.

[dogpound]

Sour Grapes.

It likely was a private road - if they don't want you on their road tough luck.

I'm sure even the oil companies know its crown land, drive a quad or walk in and stay off the road.

Elk being slaughtered, man you shouldn't even be registered here.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

But what about the poor oil company...they are just trying to make a living. Imagine all the damage that people would do if they were allowed to access that land. It's not really crown land...it's owned by the government.

You are still complaining about lease land...

Since you are one of the almighty public that own this land and control the governement that sets the laws in place for governing this land then why did you give leaseholders the right to refuse your own access???

I am not even going to comment on the OP's situation as there are not enough details to know if it was a public or private road and what the oil companies rights are. Not all crown land has vehicle access and some of it you can't even reach because it is surrounded by private land, one of those reasons might have been the case here.

[Herleboy]

Im not going to get into the legallity of it all but there should be a denied access clause in these lease agreements and everyone no matter who or what should have to fallow it, having stuff like this is creating a class system between fellow outdoorsmen. We all know how hard it is to get access. I bet the ceo of any major oil company would totally condone this they dont need this problem.

[KegRiver]

I don't much worry about locked gates, a closed gate is enough for me to turn around and look for a new place to hunt.

But I'm wondering, if some people have a problem with oil companies locking the gates on a road they built, what would these people think about SRD locking the gates on a road you and I paid for.

Being that this road leads across crown land to a fire tower, the road was paid for by tax dollars, isn't the road ours by your estimation?

I'm just wondering. I don't hunt that spot and never have. It saw far too much hunting pressure for my liking back when there was no gate.

[KegRiver]

I suppose I should include that I get the concept of the OP.
It's not the gate so much, it's the hunters accessing the area through a gate locked to everyone else.

But I also agree, if this is actually the case, bring it to the oil companies attention would put a stop to it very quickly I would think.

Public opinion is a big deal to most oil companies and besides, they don't need road access to get where they want to be if they really want to get there.

My personal opinion is, so what if some do have a key to those gates and use it to go hunting. I would do the same thing if I could.

No laws were broken so far as we know, and I don't see how others were being kept out, they just couldn't use that road.
Should I be able to use your quad because I don't have one and your having one gives you an unfair advantage? I think not.

[last minute]

4 PAGES OF all cuz of one post pure entertainment thanks it made my friday .carry on

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Royalty explanation found here on page 19:

http://www.energy.alberta.ca/Tenure/pdfs/FISREG.pdf

Note: There is no deductions for expenses.

One of has reading comprehension issues.
There is credit for gas and oil sands develoPment costs plus a return on capital. Oil was unclear, but if you look at the royalty rates there is zero royalty until volume reaches a certain level which could be construed as the same thing ...allowance for cost and return.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

One of has reading comprehension issues.
There is credit for gas and oil sands develoPment costs plus a return on capital. Oil was unclear, but if you look at the royalty rates there is zero royalty until volume reaches a certain level which could be construed as the same thing ...allowance for cost and return.

Yes you do have reading comprehension issues. If you need more help I can draw you a picture.
Quoted from the document:
"The natural gas royalty rate is sensitive to the market price and well productivity, with the exception of an initial 5% royalty rate for new wells."
"The oil royalty rate is sensitive to the market price and well productivity, with the exception of an initial 5% royalty rate applied to new wells."
For oil sands:
"The rate is 1% of gross revenue where that price is less than or equal to $55/bbl, and increases linearly to a maximum of 9% when the WTI price reaches $120/ bbl.

You are incorrect about everything in your statement. The only thing you are remotely close on is oil sands. There is only a fraction of gross revenue that royalties are payable on.

A company still has sunk costs and they have still paid to build that road. You still need to spend money to build a lease, drill, complete and tie in the well.

If the wells are that easy to drill and your money is a guarantee, you provide me with $4.5 million and I would gladly drill you a well.

[BlackHeart]

Page 26:

cOst allOWances
Allowable costs are a deduction from gross royalties payable on natural gas and by- products to compensate for the costs of gathering, compressing and processing the Crown royalty share. Allowable costs are determined on the basis of:
• annual capital cost allowances to royalty clients that own gathering, compressing and processing facilities. The capital cost allowance calculation includes a 15% return on investment;
• monthly Operating cost allowances to all royalty clients that own gathering, compressing and processing facilities;
• annual custom Processing cost allowances to royalty clients that pay for gas gathering, compressing or processing on a fee for service basis.

[molly09]

Originally Posted by duffy4

Do you think that oil companies build roads into areas so YOU can go hunting there?

The "fish cops" would not be interested in this situation unless there were hunting/fishing regulations being broken there. I didn't see you mention anything like that.

Perhaps it doesn't seem "fair" but there is nothing illegal about what you have described.

Sometimes Fish & Wildlife actually require that resource roads be gated to reduce traffic into important wildlife areas.

i thought if land was posted no one can hunt on it.

[AndrewM]

The initial 5% is fixed. What you are reading applies to above 5%.

[honda450]

Originally Posted by duffy4

Honda;
The roads were built on Crown Land to be used by the General Public.

If you really believe that then there is no point in continuing a "discussion" with you on this subject.

Good catch Duffy. I realized my grammer error after the edit.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by molly09

i thought if land was posted no one can hunt on it.

myth.

[duffy4]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

myth.

Yes and it is a mythtry why this keeps coming up from time to time.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Should I be able to use a public quad because I don't have one and your having exclusive use of it gives you an unfair advantage? I think not.

Fixed it for you.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Fixed it for you.

Oh, I wasn't aware that the road was a public road. I thought the OP said it was a lease road.

My mistake, I stand corrected.

Please carry on.

[AndrewM]

You are correct it is a lease road. The OP considered a lease road a public road.

[honda450]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

and like Hal said it's their road.

And like Hal said it ain't there road they have a LOC on it. That is all. They don't own the land don't ya get that.

What the heck some posts go missing here or did I have too much Everclear?

[JohninAB]

....

[hal53]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

....

access road and the conditions it must be built nder are included or sometimes separate from the location lease, but yup, they are both under a an access lease of some sort, many different types, but once they leave the Gov't road allowance, everything is under a lease agreement.