Another Leaseholder Thread...

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

After reading all the response on this issue I think I will post all my private land NO HUNTING OR TRESPASSING, end of story,,Now No one will get access ,,its quite simple that people dont get it. So enough is enough ,, and every landowner i talk to in the area i will mention it as well. Especially the ;lease holders that pay the taxes on the land as well. That Some people figure its their God Given right. That will I am sure **** off about a 100 or so hunters that come to my door every year.

It is my Gov. given right to access leases, what you do with your private land is your business, but ask me to grovel and kiss your butt to access your lease? Forget it. You are right some people don't get it.

[C & C]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

Sunset did say PRIVATE land. Then all the hunters he used to allow on private land could join with the entitled ones on lease land. Seems like a good idea to me. Lol.

Could seem like a good idea to you and that great I guess. I just hope it doesn't get regulated so hard that you end up losing out as well as others that like to use the leases.

And I was refering to the attitude he was going to spread to others the "esp the lease holders" part. Your land your say for sure but I think open mindedness and maybe some more regulations for lease lands are needed so that the bad seeds on both sides are weeded out.

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by Jack&7

Pesky has it right....and I agree 100%.

The pizzing match back and forth of "hunters are the problem" vs. "leaseholders are the problem" gets all of us no where. It is sad...truly it is.

I sit back and watch from the sidelines and wonder:

Are there any places where a "good" hunter and a "good" leaseholder co-exist? Does such a thing exist?

I would love nothing more than to find a place where I could rely on the fact that every year I would be welcome to hunt. A place that is not overflowing with yahoos and weekend road warriors like most Crown land. And I would be proud to know that I earned that privelege by doing things the right way...by being respectful, etc. Unfortunately, I realize that the only way to truly accomplish this is to buy my own...but that won't happen for me in this province. Hence, I need to get permission from those who DO have the land. And I am ok with that.

And I would also take pride in the fact that the landowner or leaseholder would be at ease knowing that I am on their property because they know I will look out for their interests just as if it was my own land.

But as I have yet to find such a place, I wonder if it even exists. It seems greed (by members of BOTH groups) have made it such that everyone is mis-trusting of everyone else.

As I said before: It is sad...truly it is.

Well spoken. Biggest problem is lack of RESPECT for both parties. A few azzes ruin it for everyone. I spend alot of time in the country on farms/ranches as part of my job. You would be shocked how much equipment I see with bullet holes including the odd house. It's friggin scarey.

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

It is my Gov. given right to access leases, what you do with your private land is your business, but ask me to grovel and kiss your butt to access your lease? Forget it. You are right some people don't get it.

Never said anything about the lease I said Private land I will be posting no hunting or traspassing, hunt all my leases all you want,, shoot a cow, or cut a fence you will compensate me or deal with it in court simple. If you hang your truck up on a prairie nugget,, then so be it walk out and hire a tow truck because i wont pull your ass out again. good luck finding game on the lease unless you just want badgers and coyotes and prairie dogs,, fill your boots. ,,
But I will not and I mean WILL not allow access to any private or deeded land from now on for your or anyone elses recreational hunting. You folks that have enjoyed the access so far ,, will now be shut out like the rest of the folks that feel they are entitled.

Oh an btw i have talked to about 20 other land holders today,, and they are getting on board as well,, good luck getting on any private land here in this wmu this fall that includes about 3 other wmus in the area as well

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by C & C

Could seem like a good idea to you and that great I guess. I just hope it doesn't get regulated so hard that you end up losing out as well as others that like to use the leases.

And I was refering to the attitude he was going to spread to others the "esp the lease holders" part. Your land your say for sure but I think open mindedness and maybe some more regulations for lease lands are needed so that the bad seeds on both sides are weeded out.

Thats what happens when you **** the wrong people off.

[hal53]

Don't hunt on leased land, but it seems to be a growing problem on bith sides. Out here most of the leases are grazing leases I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, so wouldn't it make sense to lease them out that way???...Oct.31st the grazing is over, so your cattle are out, lease is re-instated the next grazing season???....dunno??

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

It is my Gov. given right to access leases, what you do with your private land is your business, but ask me to grovel and kiss your butt to access your lease? Forget it. You are right some people don't get it.

Wow, It is attitudes like this that ruin it for others.Gov. given right. Since when does the gov give anything.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by vcmm

Wow, It is attitudes like this that ruin it for others.Gov. given right. Since when does the gov give anything.

Really please explain.

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Really please explain.

It's called RESPECT and MANNERS. Just because you may need to push to get access does not mean you need to be rude about it.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by vcmm

It's called RESPECT and MANNERS. Just because you may need to push to get access does not mean you need to be rude about it.

Umm..., what was the rude part?

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Umm..., what was the rude part?

You have a privilege not a right. Just like a drivers license. Said my peace which I normally don't do. Just tired of the farmer/rancher bashing.
Put yourself in thier shoes. It is no wonder we can't hunt anywhere.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Really please explain.

Well lets see...

Sunsetrider is from Veteran.

Big spreads out that way....not a lot of leased land either.
He just got 20 other landowners on board after your last post and as a result of this thread.

Want to hazard a guess as to how many square miles of private land guys out that way can't access now?

Brilliant.

[KegRiver]

Well today for the first time in my life, I asked for permission to hunt a private pasture.

No it's not a grazing lease. It used to be but the lease holder got tired of all the BS and bought the land. Now he owns it and he can keep people out if he wants to.

I can tell you the answer was a bit of surprise to me. I expected to have to do a bit of persuading.
What a got was a immediate yes.

Then he tells me that he had let another party hunt that graze about a week ago and they had done pretty well. He casually mentioned that they were young fellows from down south. I gathered that they were strangers to him.

It's strange how a man who had so much trouble with hunters on his grazing lease had no hesitation in letting strangers hunt his property.

I wonder why. Could a little respect have a lot to do with it?

Oh and btw, I wasn't asking for myself. I was asking on behalf of our house quest, a fellow I met for the first time a few weeks ago when he came up here to hunt.

I guess I do have a bad attitude towards my fellow hunters.

[Big Daddy Badger]

A happy ending!

Nice of ya.

It is often helpful when a fellow from the area can sort of vouch for you.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Well lets see...

Sunsetrider is from Veteran.

Big spreads out that way....not a lot of leased land either.
He just got 20 other landowners on board after your last post and as a result of this thread.

Want to hazard a guess as to how many square miles of private land guys out that way can't access now?

Brilliant.

I stand by what I said, I have a right to access a lease. I have no control how he reacts to a statement. I have been turn down once in about 40 attempts for access and I have always been welcomed back. The once I was turned down I phone the proper agency, reported it and never looked back. I understand there are a whack of jerks out there on both sides but lease holders are by law required to allow access. If you choose to not exercise that right that's your choice, but don't begrudge me when I or someone else choices to. For the life of me I don't understand how a group that should be committed to keeping what little rights we have, will give them away by allowing a few lease holders circumvent rules to suit their needs. I don't believe I was in any way rude to anyone in this discussion.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I stand by what I said, I have a right to access a lease. I have no control how he reacts to a statement. I have been turn down once in about 40 attempts for access and I have always been welcomed back. The once I was turned down I phone the proper agency, reported it and never looked back. I understand there are a whack of jerks out there on both sides but lease holders are by law required to allow access. If you choose to not exercise that right that's your choice, but don't begrudge me when I or someone else choices to. For the life of me I don't understand how a group that should be committed to keeping what little rights we have, will give them away by allowing a few lease holders circumvent rules to suit their needs. I don't believe I was in any way rude to anyone in this discussion.

Fine.
Nobody says that you shouldn't exercise your rights but what purpose does rubbing a guys nose in them on this forum serve?

And I don't care how you define it....the post below was rude and challenging.
You basically dared the guy to react and so did a few others.
Well he did and what good did that accomplish?

Originally Posted by pikergolf
It is my Gov. given right to access leases, what you do with your private land is your business, but ask me to grovel and kiss your butt to access your lease? Forget it. You are right some people don't get it.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Well lets see...

Sunsetrider is from Veteran.

Big spreads out that way....not a lot of leased land either.
He just got 20 other landowners on board after your last post and as a result of this thread.

Want to hazard a guess as to how many square miles of private land guys out that way can't access now?

Brilliant.

X2. Nice Work.

And to top it off, these landowners will likely tell the hunters whom they deny access to, to go online and check out the Alberta Outdoorsman Website and look up this Thread to see exactly why they are no longer welcome down that way. ( That's what I would do.)

The proof is right here in this Thread why hunting access is being denied. If you approach a landowner and start pizzing him off and being adversarial with him, why the he11 would he do anything less than return the favour?

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by New Hunter Okotoks

X2. Nice Work.

And to top it off, these landowners will likely tell the hunters whom they deny access to, to go online and check out the Alberta Outdoorsman Website and look up this Thread to see exactly why they are no longer welcome down that way. ( That's what I would do.)

The proof is right here in this Thread why hunting access is being denied. If you approach a landowner and start pizzing him off and being adversarial with him, why the he11 would he do anything less than return the favour?

Oh yeah... 20 farmers and ranchers is probably half the MU if not more.

I'd leave the AO hat at home if I was passing through Veteram this fall.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I stand by what I said, I have a right to access a lease. I have no control how he reacts to a statement. I have been turn down once in about 40 attempts for access and I have always been welcomed back. The once I was turned down I phone the proper agency, reported it and never looked back. I understand there are a whack of jerks out there on both sides but lease holders are by law required to allow access. If you choose to not exercise that right that's your choice, but don't begrudge me when I or someone else choices to. For the life of me I don't understand how a group that should be committed to keeping what little rights we have, will give them away by allowing a few lease holders circumvent rules to suit their needs. I don't believe I was in any way rude to anyone in this discussion.

I suspect you may have caught a stray bullet so's to speak.

You seem to me to be an straight up kinda guy. Respectful but to the point.

Maybe it was your comment about not having to grovel.

I don't see any reasonable land owner asking anyone, much less a respectful gentleman, to grovel.

What I see is many lease holders being a bit miffed about being told they have no right to keep out trouble makers.

I understand that the courts have ruled that access must be granted within the guidelines. No doubt lease holders know that too.

Reminding a lease holder of that, is kinda like telling them they have to grovel.

What people seem to miss is that not only does he have to grant you access, but he has to grant access to anyone who wants to hunt that lease.
Whether they are poachers, hunters with attitude, people he has had previous bad experiences before or whatever, he has to allow access no matter who it is.

And when someone cuts a fence, or drives through it. When someone leaves a gate open and a hundred cows get out, when someone digs ruts in a access road, or causes any other problems, all the rancher can do is fix or clean up the mess and report it.

Most of us know what reporting something like that would get us, which is nothing of course.

So really, all the lease holder can do now is grin and bear it. That has to grate on ones nerves.

I can see where over time, a cut fence this year, an open gate next year, and eventually any rancher would decide to push back.

And then along comes some yahoo with attitude telling him to like it or lump it. That's bound to get a reaction.

I don't think that is what you intended, but I can see where in such a charged conversation it could be perceived that way.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Oh yeah... 20 farmers and ranchers is probably half the MU if not more.

I'd leave the AO hat at home if I was passing through Veteram this fall.

And this is what got shut down just this past weekend. I'm pretty sure that sunset rider has more pull with his neighbours than some strangers from Calgary.

By the end of the week, I wouldn't be surprised if all of the deeded land down that way is shut down to hunters. This is what happens ( and what will keep happening) when people go out to ranchers and try to tell them: "What's What."

I have heard simalar stuff from more and more landowners over the years.......... " I used to let guys on all the time. But, what happened more and more, was I would then be left cleaning up the mess left by them. I had an out building get shot and some guys give my wife a hard time because she didn't know if there had been any deer around. Now NOBODY hunts my land. You seem like a nice respectfull fella though. I'm Sorry"

I would tell them not to be the least bit sorry because I would do the exact same thing if I was in their boots.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Oh yeah... 20 farmers and ranchers is probably half the MU if not more.

I'd leave the AO hat at home if I was passing through Veteram this fall.

Probably a good idea not to wear it anywhere out in the countryside, a lot of landowners on this board from parts other than Veteran.
Some of these same threads the past couple of years and the poor attitudes have me thinking about checking ID for addresses (rural or entitled urbanite) before allowing access.

[C & C]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Well lets see...

Sunsetrider is from Veteran.

Big spreads out that way....not a lot of leased land either.
He just got 20 other landowners on board after your last post and as a result of this thread.

Want to hazard a guess as to how many square miles of private land guys out that way can't access now?

Brilliant.

Only thing that does is keep the honest hunters out. The ones (the problem ones) that don't ask in the first place or freely cut fences are not knocking on doors at all. Accually now there will be less eyes on the property to report back or witness anything that goes wrong.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by C & C

Accually now there will be less eyes on the property to report back or witness anything that goes wrong.

All those eyes don't seem to do much good from what I hear from my friends who have leased land.

The trouble makers seldom do their dirty work in the presence of witnesses.

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by New Hunter Okotoks

X2. Nice Work.

And to top it off, these landowners will likely tell the hunters whom they deny access to, to go online and check out the Alberta Outdoorsman Website and look up this Thread to see exactly why they are no longer welcome down that way. ( That's what I would do.)

The proof is right here in this Thread why hunting access is being denied. If you approach a landowner and start pizzing him off and being adversarial with him, why the he11 would he do anything less than return the favour?

You would be suprised how many landowners in this area have seen this thread and one other in the last few days. . Trust me they are far from impressed with the general attitude,, enjoy your hunts this fall.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I suspect you may have caught a stray bullet so's to speak.

You seem to me to be an straight up kinda guy. Respectful but to the point.

Maybe it was your comment about not having to grovel.

I don't see any reasonable land owner asking anyone, much less a respectful gentleman, to grovel.

What I see is many lease holders being a bit miffed about being told they have no right to keep out trouble makers.

I understand that the courts have ruled that access must be granted within the guidelines. No doubt lease holders know that too.

Reminding a lease holder of that, is kinda like telling them they have to grovel.

What people seem to miss is that not only does he have to grant you access, but he has to grant access to anyone who wants to hunt that lease.
Whether they are poachers, hunters with attitude, people he has had previous bad experiences before or whatever, he has to allow access no matter who it is.

And when someone cuts a fence, or drives through it. When someone leaves a gate open and a hundred cows get out, when someone digs ruts in a access road, or causes any other problems, all the rancher can do is fix or clean up the mess and report it.

Most of us know what reporting something like that would get us, which is nothing of course.

So really, all the lease holder can do now is grin and bear it. That has to grate on ones nerves.

I can see where over time, a cut fence this year, an open gate next year, and eventually any rancher would decide to push back.

And then along comes some yahoo with attitude telling him to like it or lump it. That's bound to get a reaction.

I don't think that is what you intended, but I can see where in such a charged conversation it could be perceived that way.

After reading what I wrote with the benefit of a nights sleep, I wish I had reworded it and will say the grovel and butt kissing part was both unnecessary and over the top. I will admit my skills at bring thoughts across are lacking, but in this case it was a choice I made, and was wrong. I apologies Sunrider. I don't think I have the same understanding of what goes on during deer season as most, as I avoid being in those areas, although deer hunter occasionally show up where I'm hunting pheasants. We all see life through the lens's of our own experience's, so when I hunt coyotes in the dead of winter I see no problems. Maybe because I do hunt during the down time and the fact that I drive a vehicle that the farmer knows won't be tearing around his place, I have a good relationship with those on those land I use. I do remember what deer season was like many years ago, and it's a big part of why I don't partake any more. I just couldn't get any satisfaction out of the gong show. Maybe if my memories of the gong show were a little fresher I could empathies a little stronger with ranchers. I do my best to put whomever's land, deeded or otherwise, at ease and tell them where I'll be and preferably leave my vehicle in there yard. At the end of the day though at least where I'm at there are ranchers that abuse the system, as I have said before i don't have the energy to fight them, but I do fear that others watching will also begin to say no on whims. Also a thank you to Keg.

[Jillian]

Firstly, I am a private property owner myself with no lease land at this time. I absolutely will not grant any hunting permission to anyone that has not acquired permission prior to the season. All these dam road hunters that race up and down the roads and see deer jump into my fields and pastures then race up to my house and expect me to drop everything so they can roar down there in their pickups and atv's and shoot ****up. Not acceptable, for me or any of my neighbors...

Use respect prior to the season, you get way further ahead with landowners/leaseholders...

Be willing to foot access only, how many of you that demand access on lease land ever debone a deer or elk and pack it out on your backs, not many I bet... They believe the only way to retrieve game is with truck or quad...

How many of you people that demand access ever go to the leaseholder in April or May and ask him/her if you could go out and help them repair fences or anything else they may need help with.

I personally know lots of hunters that offer to come help do lots of jobs such as chainsawing out fence lines and fencing, and even branding...

If somebody disregards these lease lands like throwing out garbage and destroying crossings and grasslands, who is responsible for cleaning this up?? Do any of you demandees offer to come and clean up these lease lands?

If they really belong to the public then I guess ranchers need public funds to hire crews in to clean and reclaim the lands for everybody to use again and again and again...

Why do you think the government is slowly shutting down atv use all over the mountain areas because of the destruction they cause... Keep wrecking **** and the government that is elected by the people will keep taking it away and letting people who are willing to take care of it have exclusive access to it... Get a grip people, keep demanding and be careful what you wish for because sooner or later you wreck it and nobody gets to use it...ie, natural areas and ecological areas, where only foot access is allowed, I believe that all hunting access anywhere should be that way or by horse...live with it...

Also, from what I understand about lease access is that the leaseholder can restrict access to a certain amount of hunters also, so they may already have let a few people hunt there and if they give out any more permission then people will be tripping over each other out there causing accidents and other harmful incidents..

When denied access to lease land have you ever asked if they have let anybody else on the land to hunt that year? Because maybe they are full already...

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by vcmm

You have a privilege not a right. Just like a drivers license. Said my peace which I normally don't do. Just tired of the farmer/rancher bashing.
Put yourself in thier shoes. It is no wonder we can't hunt anywhere.

So its a privilege then too for you to breath the air and have a glass of water , never mind walk on the planet , to me thats a right .
Any land that is public land is there for us all to use , and the privilidge that you so call it for access is given to us only by the creator , not by you or any politician , unfortunatly some lease holders just want it for there own personal backyard pleasures.

[landowner]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

You would be suprised how many landowners in this area have seen this thread and one other in the last few days. . Trust me they are far from impressed with the general attitude,, enjoy your hunts this fall.

Not just your area....

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I suspect you may have caught a stray bullet so's to speak.

You seem to me to be an straight up kinda guy. Respectful but to the point.

Maybe it was your comment about not having to grovel.

I don't see any reasonable land owner asking anyone, much less a respectful gentleman, to grovel.

What I see is many lease holders being a bit miffed about being told they have no right to keep out trouble makers.

I understand that the courts have ruled that access must be granted within the guidelines. No doubt lease holders know that too.

Reminding a lease holder of that, is kinda like telling them they have to grovel.

What people seem to miss is that not only does he have to grant you access, but he has to grant access to anyone who wants to hunt that lease.
Whether they are poachers, hunters with attitude, people he has had previous bad experiences before or whatever, he has to allow access no matter who it is.

And when someone cuts a fence, or drives through it. When someone leaves a gate open and a hundred cows get out, when someone digs ruts in a access road, or causes any other problems, all the rancher can do is fix or clean up the mess and report it.

Most of us know what reporting something like that would get us, which is nothing of course.

So really, all the lease holder can do now is grin and bear it. That has to grate on ones nerves.

I can see where over time, a cut fence this year, an open gate next year, and eventually any rancher would decide to push back.

And then along comes some yahoo with attitude telling him to like it or lump it. That's bound to get a reaction.

I don't think that is what you intended, but I can see where in such a charged conversation it could be perceived that way.

Theres another way to look at it , if the Rancher dont like all the yahoos , hunters and other public people on his lease , good or bad , all he has to do is dont lease public land and his worries are over , if he has to many cows , to bad , he can go out and buy some more titled land and keep everyone out , PROBLEM SOLVED.
When you lease land for grazing , then accept the fact that you are not the only one with the RIGHT to access.

[killer18]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

After reading all the response on this issue I think I will post all my private land NO HUNTING OR TRESPASSING, end of story,,Now No one will get access ,,its quite simple that people dont get it. So enough is enough ,, and every landowner i talk to in the area i will mention it as well. Especially the ;lease holders that pay the taxes on the land as well. That Some people figure its their God Given right. That will I am sure **** off about a 100 or so hunters that come to my door every year.

ya... try and keep me off lease land.... you would be waisting your time.