Suffield - January Success?

[Joe Black]

My opinion on this years hunt. f and W and local suffield staff are trying their best within their power to find a solution. Thanks for your effort. Unfortunately in the process some Alberta hunters got a raw deal. No one knew this would happen as no one can predict the reaction of a wild animal to increased pressure on their habitat. What struck me as odd was the biologists present at the briefings. I'm assuming they had a strong influence on what the corrective action needed to be there. The NWA debate is far from over as the question of allowing hunting there may have to go as far as Prince Charles,,,,,,, Im not joking. Time will tell where this ends up but I have a feeling this drama is far from over. For those still in the upcoming hunts, make best of your opportunities.

[rednuck]

If they did open the NWA where would they get chased to next? across the partially frozen river? off a cliff at the river? through the fences and into farmers fields?

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by rednuck

If they did open the NWA where would they get chased to next? across the partially frozen river? off a cliff at the river? through the fences and into farmers fields?

And 200 trucks in hot pursuit through farmers yards and fields.

Like it or not, if they open up the NWA this is exactly what would happen.

[marky_mark]

I don't think the animals are on the nwa anymore.. They have left the base to go to the ag fields.. I'm sure the range patrol and the biologist know this, but what are they supposed to do? Say thanks for coming out everyone, the animals have went somewhere else and you can't go after them? Those guys would get lynched...


QUOTE=Joe Black;3105147]My opinion on this years hunt. f and W and local suffield staff are trying their best within their power to find a solution. Thanks for your effort. Unfortunately in the process some Alberta hunters got a raw deal. No one knew this would happen as no one can predict the reaction of a wild animal to increased pressure on their habitat. What struck me as odd was the biologists present at the briefings. I'm assuming they had a strong influence on what the corrective action needed to be there. The NWA debate is far from over as the question of allowing hunting there may have to go as far as Prince Charles,,,,,,, Im not joking. Time will tell where this ends up but I have a feeling this drama is far from over. For those still in the upcoming hunts, make best of your opportunities.[/QUOTE]

[Lefty-Canuck]

The animals do what they do...they are not trapped or fenced in, it's a dice roll right place right time. Putting all the chips on black for a 3 day hunt after an 8+ year wait is not a gamble I would be prepared to take. There are no mulligans.

LC

[Davef]

The big herd has all ready ventured south of Hwy #1, and a good sized one is still in the NWA. This is coming from the folks at the base. They give you that info as I was leaving for home.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

The animals do what they do...they are not trapped or fenced in, it's a dice roll right place right time. Putting all the chips on black for a 3 day hunt after an 8+ year wait is not a gamble I would be prepared to take.

LC

Its almost like..... hunting?

Lots of guys were successful. This is not much different then the outside the base hunt.

Add more guys and you get more complaining. Again, like hunting....


Its not for everyone though.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Its almost like..... hunting?

Lots of guys were successful. This is not much different then the outside the base hunt.

Add more guys and you get more complaining. Again, like hunting....


Its not for everyone though.

Exactly, my point ...I think lots of guys figured it was a slam dunk. No different than where I hunt elk, they are either there or they are not.

LC

[elk396]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Exactly, my point ...I think lots of guys figured it was a slam dunk. No different than where I hunt elk, they are either there or they are not.

LC

This was a cull, so yes, most guys did expect to be successful. They put there priority towards that being there chance at harvesting an elk. Usually when a cull is put into place, more than 10% of hunters are successful. The suffled hunt was not a cull to start off with and many hunters focused on this area to go after a trophy elk, then after 10 years of building their priority they open it wide open and call it a cull. So the hunters who have been hoping and waiting for this coveted hunt are forced to play this new 'cull' game that is laid out in front of them. So, yes they have a right to be disappointed about the success they had, yet you seem shocked at their response? Some of these folks burned 10-14 years of priority and will run out of time to go thru the process again. The sad thing about this is, the fix for this herd reduction probably won't involve any of us who put in for the draw and wait for an eternity to get it.

[AlbertaCutthroat]

There's been a lot of talk about success, here are some actual numbers. From what I can tell, an actual count has not been completed recently and most of the numbers are based on models. I think the effects of wounding/ cripples is being underestimated but I will await data showing otherwise.

http://medicinehatnews.com/news/loca...suffield-herd/

Be safe out there.

[rednuck]

Originally Posted by AlbertaCutthroat

There's been a lot of talk about success, here are some actual numbers. From what I can tell, an actual count has not been completed recently and most of the numbers are based on models. I think the effects of wounding/ cripples is being underestimated but I will await data showing otherwise.

http://medicinehatnews.com/news/loca...suffield-herd/

Be safe out there.

There is always a shroud of mystery as well because the FN harvest numbers outside the base aren't reported. It could be significantly higher then anticipated.

They might be closer to their goals then expected and with any luck people will stop calling it a cull.

[pencapchew]

How are the cow guys doing?

[Looper]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Exactly, my point ...I think lots of guys figured it was a slam dunk. No different than where I hunt elk, they are either there or they are not.

LC

Make no mistake, it was a slam dunk at one point in history.

When the first hunters were allowed on to take some cows there were bulls everywhere on the base. Huge ones. Hundreds and hundreds in large groups with monster bulls walking amongst them.

Ironically the very exercise meant to reduce the numbers has made it extremely difficult to reduce the numbers.

Looper

[shedcrazy]

Personally our group could care less if we harvested an animal or not. Our group went home 1 for 2 with a decent bull (good success compared to most places). That has nothing to do with why I wouldn't go back nor recommend that hunt.

I hunt in an area for elk that is very similiar to this hunt. You wait and wait and hope you catch them out. I can do that for months/years. I have exp yrs of the CWD cull + quote tags in the areas I hunt and enjoyed 99% of the days in the field and never changed areas. I would have left mid-day of the 1st day of this hunt if it was my tag.

Majority of guys that we talked to have killed elk before plus had empty tags and had no issues going home with a tag in their pockets. It was just what was going on that made it not enjoyable.

Sure there are guys that have scour grapes over not filling a high or low priority tag. Some hunters are never happy...just like any other hobby/life exp. I have worked more check stations than most and have heard it all. People will compain. Some legit and some just complaining.

From what I saw I would have no problem with them going in and shooting them from a chopper in the NWA. It's more humane and ethical than what is going on there. If that isn't an option and if hunters want their tags instead they will need to adapt their wildlife management approach. It needs to be modified and evolve with the hunt. I have let my opinions be known to the CofC before they even started this hunt and will continue to do so.

Sure it could have been handled better before it got to this point but no one has a time machine so we must move on. The reality is if the elk are really having such a social impact then just kill them or people need to adapt to the elk. The world keeps moving forward.

That is the end of my 2cents on this topic. There is much more enjoyable things to discuss, think about or do.

Good luck

S

[Deer Hunter]

Shed,
I don't think you need a time machine to predict the outcome of having thousands of elk in an area that has no predation or hunting pressure and giving it 15 years...

That is where the bust was on this hunt, not the tactics employed by the hunters in the cull.

Congrats on your parties success.

[marky_mark]

Exactly!!!



QUOTE=elk396;3105455]This was a cull, so yes, most guys did expect to be successful. They put there priority towards that being there chance at harvesting an elk. Usually when a cull is put into place, more than 10% of hunters are successful. The suffled hunt was not a cull to start off with and many hunters focused on this area to go after a trophy elk, then after 10 years of building their priority they open it wide open and call it a cull. So the hunters who have been hoping and waiting for this coveted hunt are forced to play this new 'cull' game that is laid out in front of them. So, yes they have a right to be disappointed about the success they had, yet you seem shocked at their response? Some of these folks burned 10-14 years of priority and will run out of time to go thru the process again. The sad thing about this is, the fix for this herd reduction probably won't involve any of us who put in for the draw and wait for an eternity to get it.[/QUOTE]

[elk396]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Shed,
I don't think you need a time machine to predict the outcome of having thousands of elk in an area that has no predation or hunting pressure and giving it 15 years...

That is where the bust was on this hunt, not the tactics employed by the hunters in the cull.

Congrats on your parties success.

Well put Deer Hunter, I can't say I agree with Sheds comments ,if you need a time machine to predict the outcome here.........well. Hunters have a legitimate reason to be disappointed with this outcome.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by elk396

Well put Deer Hunter, I can't say I agree with Sheds comments ,if you need a time machine to predict the outcome here.........well. Hunters have a legitimate reason to be disappointed with this outcome.

It was by all accounts, a mismanaged program from the start. In fairness to the military, perhaps the reason they opened it for hunters was the gong show the Mule Deer cull in eastern Albert became a few years ago. I could imagine the out cry from hunters if they announced the military would do the cull, which in my opinion only, is likely the next thing to happen after what went on there this year if only half the reports are true.

[shedcrazy]

I don't think you need a time machine to predict the outcome of having thousands of elk in an area that has no predation or hunting pressure and giving it 15 years...

I didn't say anything about going back in time to predict the outcome just about how we can't go back in time and change the way it was handled (ie study before release,management plan, control options, etc). Meaning we can't change the past so we must move on (the elk are here). Complaining on AO over and over for the release 20yrs ago without a plan doesn't make a management plan for the past.

That is where the bust was on this hunt, not the tactics employed by the hunters in the cull.

Totally disagree. I am not a 2 wrongs make a right kind of person. The AB regs are the same to me no matter what people have done in the past or the reason for the hunt.

[lead chucker]

Originally Posted by AlbertaCutthroat

There's been a lot of talk about success, here are some actual numbers. From what I can tell, an actual count has not been completed recently and most of the numbers are based on models. I think the effects of wounding/ cripples is being underestimated but I will await data showing otherwise.

http://medicinehatnews.com/news/loca...suffield-herd/

Be safe out there.

I can't ever see that herd being reduced to 2000 unless drastic measures are taken..but I'm not an expert. Seems to me their peeing in the wind...they better re think this cull/ hunting thing down there....I'm glad I stayed right away from this gong show.

[elk396]

[QUOTE=shedcrazy;3105563]I didn't say anything about going back in time to predict the outcome just about how we can't go back in time and change the way it was handled (ie study before release,management plan, control options, etc). Meaning we can't change the past so we must move on (the elk are here). Complaining on AO over and over for the release 20yrs ago without a plan doesn't make a management plan for the past.


I agree, but don't expect the belly aching to quit until well after these next hunts are over. It is much below expectations in the base. This hunt, if managed properly, had so much potential. Guys have burned up years of priority for this hunt, many did not even see an elk, it plain sucks, so just saying, if you're expecting hunters to just 'move on', probably not going to happen for a bit. Just my two cents.

[IronNoggin]

Well then... Not quite what I had in mind when I was requesting a little "Inspiration"!!

A Shame it has gone that way.
But, we're saddled up and starting the pilgrimage East in a few minutes.
At the very least we will enjoy a few visits with some local Ranchers & fellow hunters...
And what the hell, lightening may strike yet...

Now I gotta run and dig up that bloody horseshoe I keep misplacing...

Cheers,
Nog

[thetruth]

I agree 100% that the military, provided they have the authority and I'm certain they do, should take care of this s*** show once and for all, get the choppers up and wipe out the entire herd on the base, consequences be damned.

As someone who lives right in the epicenter of this mess, the locals are, quite frankly, totally fed up with the entire fiasco, due in no small part to the antics being perpetrated outside the base year 'round by a certain "special interest group" that has been granted "unique" access to the wildlife resource, vulnerable prairie mule deer and antelope included. It is a management nightmare that SRD somehow didn't see coming and now has no way of overseeing or getting a handle on. It's an unprecedented mess of their own making.

Someone needs to take the bull by the horns and think outside the box for a change or we are going to be having the same conversation 20 years from now and in the meantime this incredibly fragile prairie ecosystem, both inside and outside of the Base is going to be utterly compromised and abused.

It's the biggest management disaster in the history of the province IMO.

[Cruiser]

I had 3 guys stay at my place and they hunted Monday to Wednesday of this week and never seen an animal they could shoot. Very disappointing and not a good way to give up a Priority 9.
There was a report that there was 2 guys that had a Priority 18 in this last 3 day hunt that got skunked as well.

I heard Monday was 34 animals and Tuesday 4 animals were taken with a spiker bull. No reports for Wednesday.

Just as a FYI to everyone

[DMZ]

Interesting mix of stories told on here, mine is quite a bit different. My experience is apparently like no other (except the guy and his BIL who were field dressing the 2 bulls aside from where I was Field dressing mine).

Sorry for the long post.

First of all, if you’re following, you will know that I gave myself a 25% chance of success in this week’s Cow hunt. I read all the posts on here about people behavior during this hunt, I spoke with hunters both at the Tim Hortons and in the theatre prior to the briefing, trying to gather information. I don’t claim or ever have claimed to be a very experienced or excellent hunter, I wasn’t raised with it, I do the best I can.

My partner and I were NOT the first out of the briefing (the lot was near empty), we pulled out of the parking lot at around 7:42am on wed (I know because I was waiting for legal light and commented we had about 10 minutes). All of those that sped out of the briefing may have missed on their race up 884 the herd of 200+ that range patrol was trying to keep in the base north of the O&G plant south or gate 9. We noticed they (the heard) were heading at a pretty good pace in a SE direction. When we got through the gate (You just slow down and show your passes, we didn’t even stop) we had decided that I wasn’t going to make the first Right hand turn and follow up the rear of the heard (like many did) but instead head deeper into the base before heading back south. We made our way down, paying attention to others who came before us and keeping an eye out for sign. We passed at some point a WIDE area of tracks where the heard had crossed slowly, at that point we knew they were still south of us. We continued south, we would at one point catch a glimpse of the heard cresting a hill, running in parallel 1500yrds or more to the west of us before they would disappear in a valley, we knew we were close, it was an amazing site. It would turn out that from that moment on we would make all the correct moves, we found ourselves turning onto the main road that holds the gas plant just as the heard was coming into sight at my 3 o’clock through my windshield about 300 yards north of the road.
I stopped on the side of the road, my partner was getting excited but I couldn’t shoot from my position, the gas plant and the highway were in the distance, I didn’t want to shoot in that direction for many reasons. I stepped on it and positioned myself on the west side of where the heard would cross the road (100yrds or so), the plant and highway at my back. As I stepped out and got into position the first of the heard started crossing the road. They were moving REALLY fast but single file. I picked my target and fired. Range patrol would soon rush in behind me, first a young guy, he passed me on the road and stopped closer to the heard, I walked up to him. Under his advice I waited until most of the heard had crossed (about 2 minutes) so I was not to split them in the middle and took another shot. Another Range patrol would approach me soon after and advise that we helped out a lot as the heard was headed off the base and because we moved to the 884 side we in turn pushed them back deeper into the base. I was tagged out at 8:45, I was in the Hat checking out at 12pm. It was an amazing experience (Aside from some of the stories I heard of some people’s actions and behaviors, scary at best).

You can tell based on the tone at the briefings that there is a lot of stupidity or careless behavior going on. I don’t feel the officials managed it poorly, quite opposite considering the wide range of people they are dealing with. The Range patrol guys were awesome and very helpful. I appreciated the fact that they keep a portion closed for a fresh start for EVERYONE on the wed as both cow and bull hunters converge on the area at once.

[30Gibbs]

DMZ....I am very happy it worked out for you and that it happened fast before you seen what everyone else experienced over the previous two days and previous hunts. I was there, and it was a huge fail in my opinion. (The reasons have already been brought up previously) The reason why most of the guys bypassed gate 9 is because they wanted to avoid getting in the middle of bullets flying while the herd was getting flock shot! Not everyone flock shoots....but some do. If you think they sped past and didn't see the elk I would think you are judging the situation from the one hour you spent on the base. I am sure some people missed the elk being there but I know for a fact not everyone did. I am glad it all worked out for you and that it happened fast. Congrats on your success and I'm sure they will be as good to eat as the elk I have had the opportunity to try from down in that area.

[NayNay]

Originally Posted by DMZ

Interesting mix of stories told on here, mine is quite a bit different. My experience is apparently like no other (except the guy and his BIL who were field dressing the 2 bulls aside from where I was Field dressing mine).

Sorry for the long post.

First of all, if you’re following, you will know that I gave myself a 25% chance of success in this week’s Cow hunt. I read all the posts on here about people behavior during this hunt, I spoke with hunters both at the Tim Hortons and in the theatre prior to the briefing, trying to gather information. I don’t claim or ever have claimed to be a very experienced or excellent hunter, I wasn’t raised with it, I do the best I can.

My partner and I were NOT the first out of the briefing (the lot was near empty), we pulled out of the parking lot at around 7:42am on wed (I know because I was waiting for legal light and commented we had about 10 minutes). All of those that sped out of the briefing may have missed on their race up 884 the herd of 200+ that range patrol was trying to keep in the base north of the O&G plant south or gate 9. We noticed they (the heard) were heading at a pretty good pace in a SE direction. When we got through the gate (You just slow down and show your passes, we didn’t even stop) we had decided that I wasn’t going to make the first Right hand turn and follow up the rear of the heard (like many did) but instead head deeper into the base before heading back south. We made our way down, paying attention to others who came before us and keeping an eye out for sign. We passed at some point a WIDE area of tracks where the heard had crossed slowly, at that point we knew they were still south of us. We continued south, we would at one point catch a glimpse of the heard cresting a hill, running in parallel 1500yrds or more to the west of us before they would disappear in a valley, we knew we were close, it was an amazing site. It would turn out that from that moment on we would make all the correct moves, we found ourselves turning onto the main road that holds the gas plant just as the heard was coming into sight at my 3 o’clock through my windshield about 300 yards north of the road.
I stopped on the side of the road, my partner was getting excited but I couldn’t shoot from my position, the gas plant and the highway were in the distance, I didn’t want to shoot in that direction for many reasons. I stepped on it and positioned myself on the west side of where the heard would cross the road (100yrds or so), the plant and highway at my back. As I stepped out and got into position the first of the heard started crossing the road. They were moving REALLY fast but single file. I picked my target and fired. Range patrol would soon rush in behind me, first a young guy, he passed me on the road and stopped closer to the heard, I walked up to him. Under his advice I waited until most of the heard had crossed (about 2 minutes) so I was not to split them in the middle and took another shot. Another Range patrol would approach me soon after and advise that we helped out a lot as the heard was headed off the base and because we moved to the 884 side we in turn pushed them back deeper into the base. I was tagged out at 8:45, I was in the Hat checking out at 12pm. It was an amazing experience (Aside from some of the stories I heard of some people’s actions and behaviors, scary at best).

You can tell based on the tone at the briefings that there is a lot of stupidity or careless behavior going on. I don’t feel the officials managed it poorly, quite opposite considering the wide range of people they are dealing with. The Range patrol guys were awesome and very helpful. I appreciated the fact that they keep a portion closed for a fresh start for EVERYONE on the wed as both cow and bull hunters converge on the area at once.

Refreshing to hear a good story for a change! Any small bulls in the herd?

[newguy]

Great to hear about your success DMZ!

[elk396]

good for you dmz, hopefully you got a clear picture of the gas plant and the highway in your field photos?

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

And 200 trucks in hot pursuit through farmers yards and fields.

Like it or not, if they open up the NWA this is exactly what would happen.

I know of two separate guys hunting outside of the base right now. They are putting in their time and the km's not seeing much for bulls let alone big boys. Just lots of hunters. Just like when i had my draw for outside the base in Nov, bulls were seen on the base looking in from the farm side but nothing on the east side of the river. I have not been on the base but have a feeling there are a lot of elk staged in the NWA on the north side of the base.