Unsafe work? How hard can they push you?

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Why, what do you want to hear " if it was me I'd quit before I fixed it"
Then you quit your dammed job instead if fixing the weld .
If I quit my job every time I saw something I didn't like but wasn't fixed to my satisfaction I'd never be working . If you are so worried about unsafe equipment on the highways you should start looking in the parking lots and start tagging all your buddy's vehicles that are unsafe , I'd put money on a whole bunch of crap in those lots, there sure is in every other place I've seen.
I sleep very well at night , if you are ashamed of that that's your issue not mine ,
HOWEVER DONOT start telling me how I should run my life or how I should feel because that us not your business
Cat

Nice! You finally read one of my posts! If you had read the others you would know that the subject of me quitting came up because they wanted me not to fix the welds, fixing welds is what I do.

Sure, I patch stuff together to make it to the next shut down all the time. But this is a completely different scenario. I'm not telling you how you should feel cat... just telling you how I feel... so don't tell me not to feel that way

[Lukesky]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Ok I'm gonna get flamed for this. So I am sorry.
They are your employers. Weld as you are told. Jobs are tough now. You are not in danger so cannot play the unsafe work card. Now if you were an engineer and had to sign off on the fix, that is a different story.

You're obviously not very familiar with OH&S. If he fixed that and something were to happen, he could be held personally responsible seeing as he knew there were other issues with the trailer and he did not take it out of service.

Furthermore, he has every right, and in the OH&S act it would say he has the responsibility, to refuse fixing it as it could create a dangerous scenario. His direct Supervisor also "must take every reasonable precaution in the circumstances for the protection of workers."

His Supervisor would also be personally responsible, as would the 'big brass', seeing as they were made aware of the situation as well.


I hope if you were in a situation where you felt strongly that someone could be severely hurt in a bad circumstance if you were to 'fix' something, that you would say no. If something does happen.. You're the one that has to live with it. Maybe think about it in a scenario where it's one of your good friends you work with and all of a sudden there's an accident where a loaded trailer collapses and he's in the way. All of a sudden he becomes paralyzed for life. I know I wouldn't be able to sleep well.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

Nice! You finally read one of my posts! If you had read the others you would know that the subject of me quitting came up because they wanted me not to fix the welds, fixing welds is what I do.

Sure, I patch stuff together to make it to the next shut down all the time. But this is a completely different scenario. I'm not telling you how you should feel cat... just telling you how I feel... so don't tell me not to feel that way

I read every post in this thread.
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Lukesky

You're obviously not very familiar with OH&S. If he fixed that and something were to happen, he could be held personally responsible seeing as he knew there were other issues with the trailer and he did not take it out of service.

Furthermore, he has every right, and in the OH&S act it would say he has the responsibility, to refuse fixing it as it could create a dangerous scenario. His direct Supervisor also "must take every reasonable precaution in the circumstances for the protection of workers."

His Supervisor would also be personally responsible, as would the 'big brass', seeing as they were made aware of the situation as well.


I hope if you were in a situation where you felt strongly that someone could be severely hurt in a bad circumstance if you were to 'fix' something, that you would say no. If something does happen.. You're the one that has to live with it. Maybe think about it in a scenario where it's one of your good friends you work with and all of a sudden there's an accident where a loaded trailer collapses and he's in the way. All of a sudden he becomes paralyzed for life. I know I wouldn't be able to sleep well.

You need to read the OH&S regs yourself
He identified the issue after he was told to weld a particular crack .
If his weld failed would be a different scenario .
As long as he logged his observation and his welds were good the test of the trailer is NOT his responsibility anymore , but his employers .
If the workers hauling the trailer knew it was bad that would be a different kettle of fish if it shouldn't have been in the road and they knew it.
Cat

[Lukesky]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

You need to read the OH&S regs yourself
He identified the issue after he was told to weld a particular crack .
If his weld failed would be a different scenario .
As long as he logged his observation and his welds were good the test of the trailer is NOT his responsibility anymore , but his employers .
If the workers hauling the trailer knew it was bad that would be a different kettle of fish if it shouldn't have been in the road and they knew it.
Cat

I have read the regs. If the steps were followed as they were meant to be followed, him reporting the unsafe condition to his Supervisor would mean that his Supervisor would take that piece of equipment out of service, as is his duty required by OH&S.

But you're right, if his supervisor does not do so, he should call OH&S and let them know. Instead of creating that gongshow he is holding he ground, which the employer should respect as I'm sure they don't want to deal with OH&S.

It's funny how no one cares until there's a huge accident.

[Dog_River]

A word of advise........... guy's slow down or this will get out of hand.

Dog_River

[Reeves1]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Ok I'm gonna get flamed for this. So I am sorry.
They are your employers. Weld as you are told. Jobs are tough now. You are not in danger so cannot play the unsafe work card. Now if you were an engineer and had to sign off on the fix, that is a different story.

What you smoking, boy ?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Lukesky

I have read the regs. If the steps were followed as they were meant to be followed, him reporting the unsafe condition to his Supervisor would mean that his Supervisor would take that piece of equipment out of service, as is his duty required by OH&S.

But you're right, if his supervisor does not do so, he should call OH&S and let them know. Instead of creating that gongshow he is holding he ground, which the employer should respect as I'm sure they don't want to deal with OH&S.

It's funny how no one cares until there's a huge accident.

Nobody is professing that they do not care .
Cat

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by Reeves1

What you smoking, boy ?

Are you asking if I am smoking something called "boy"?

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Are you asking if I am smoking something called "boy"?

Please don't smoke boys.

[leeelmer]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

This brings up a question I have.... I have heard multiple multiple times that..... If you bring a vehicle in to the shop for some work and they find something unsafe, they will not release it until it is fixed or you have to have it towed away if you cant afford to fix it at the time. Any truth to this?

Not true at all
It is illegal to hold the vehicle just ask AMVIC

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

Work for West Fraser by chance?

Put it all on paper and turn it over to the health and safety department.
Refusing unsafe work imo extends to refusing to be a party to unsafe conditions.

I had one experience with OHS reporting unsafe vehicle, their investigation was dismal to say the least. I ended up leaving the company but with anything regarding highway travel I would talk to DOT.

[wildwoods]

I read most of the posts. I find it humorous that most guys wave their hand at it and advise not to do the work. Chances are if you refuse to follow instruction, you'll be long gone in no time. I'm not gonna say what's wrong or right here but the question you need to ask yourself is "am I willing to die on this hill". If it's yes (for what seems like a good reason) expect to be phased out. Sorry, that's reality. Seems like you're ok with that so I say follow your gut. Tough situation. But I won't be the one to casually advise you to put your job in jeopardy- especially in a tight labour market. Easy to do that from the sidelines....

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

I read most of the posts. I find it humorous that most guys wave their hand at it and advise not to do the work. Chances are if you refuse to follow instruction, you'll be long gone in no time. I'm not gonna say what's wrong or right here but the question you need to ask yourself is "am I willing to die on this hill". If it's yes (for what seems like a good reason) expect to be phased out. Sorry, that's reality. Seems like you're ok with that so I say follow your gut. Tough situation. But I won't be the one to casually advise you to put your job in jeopardy- especially in a tight labour market. Easy to do that from the sidelines....

I think its funny how many people think I should call up OHS or DOT etc and let them handle it. Personally I doubt that I will get the axe for this, I've worked in this mill for a long time and have an exemplary record for both my work and my attitude, this is my first real clash with my superiors. There are plenty of people employed in my mill who have way worse records than I do. Calling in the powers that be however would likely have far more serious effects, it would also be less effective since said trailer would be back on the road until they act, or not.

[Gboe8]

You've had plenty of advice. You're old enough to drink, vote, and go to war, so make up your bloody mind and do what you think is right. This one has run its course.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

I think its funny how many people think I should call up OHS or DOT etc and let them handle it. Personally I doubt that I will get the axe for this, I've worked in this mill for a long time and have an exemplary record for both my work and my attitude, this is my first real clash with my superiors. There are plenty of people employed in my mill who have way worse records than I do. Calling in the powers that be however would likely have far more serious effects, it would also be less effective since said trailer would be back on the road until they act, or not.

Congrats on being a far better tradesman and human than anyone who told you to "just do it".

Fwiw, I walked from a job due to unsafe conditions, for both myself and others. It took me 6 years to get back to the same wage. Such is life. I have a clear conscience and good health, those things can't be bought.

The attitudes of several members here are both alarming and disgusting. If you (cat/Berger et al) want to take chances with your own life, so be it. But to knowingly endanger everyone on a public road is, or should be, unthinkable!

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Congrats on being a far better tradesman and human than anyone who told you to "just do it".

Fwiw, I walked from a job due to unsafe conditions, for both myself and others. It took me 6 years to get back to the same wage. Such is life. I have a clear conscience and good health, those things can't be bought.

The attitudes of several members here are both alarming and disgusting. If you (cat/Berger et al) want to take chances with your own life, so be it. But to knowingly endanger everyone on a public road is, or should be, unthinkable!

No one is taking chance and I resent the fact that you can just throw or an accusation .
Calling DOT or OH&S IS the correct thing to go however because if a person raise crisp on the job of quits nothing gets done except they person loses their job.
I did that once when I was 20 years old and that rest if the crew stated.
Turns out the contractor was not liable as the situation dud not warrant charges .
You may think they I know nothing about industry , cases law concerning OH$S regulations etched But you could not be more wrong .
There are proper ways and procedures to gets things changed and to get dangerous conditions stopped , ranting about it pr quitting is not the way .
Your insinuation ( or maybe outright accusation) that I am a lousy tradesman is also not only inaccurate but insulting .
Cat

[Forest Techer]

Cats advice has been surprisingly tempered. And I think it's reasonable.

Where I come at this is that you have to accept that you feel,it is unsafe and are not comfortable doing this job. That is ok and you are protected I believe. The crux for me is when you try to trump others' belief that it is ok.

Some people feel that working in the bush with bears or a storm is unsafe. Some people have a mental fear about it and feel it may not be safe. That doesn't make it so. Some people are comfortable and shouldn't be held to only your standard.

Sounds like there are 2 supervisors plus the crew that want to use the trailer that believe it is ok. They will do pre trip inspections and decide wether or not it is ok.

Your opinion doesn't trump all others. Are people allowed a different opinion? Do you know how many catastrophic failures would have to happen for that trailer to injure someone? Coupler and chains would have to break clean off. Or Every weld holding the deck would have to break and then bounce off. Even in its current state is that more likely to happen then some tie straps coming undone and a quad cartwheeling off the back? Because the later happens often I bet and I haven't ever heard of an injury as a result. Not that that is acceptable.

I know of a trailer repair shop I'll ask if they've ever heard of a case. Because I'm sure they've seen some doozy hobby builds come in.

So to repeat. Don't do the repair if you believe it would create an unsafe condition. Document your concerns and who you made aware. I and anyone who has commented sounds like would back back you up.

[birdee]

good for you.You did the right thing.We had a vehicle in because it had no brakes.When we jacked it up and went to take the front lug nuts off the the tire moved so the ball joint were checked.the were ready to separate as well as the tie rod ends.All the guy wanted was the brakes cause it only had to work for a couple months.We refused to touch the brakes .Unfortunately it was a clear case to be condemned ,but no shop can do that unless the rcmp or dot stop him and issue a safety inspection.

[Cplante]

It's not only your right but also your obligation to refuse unsafe work. If your company wants you to do something you feel is unsafe o would be re evaluating who it was I'm working for. An unsafe trailer regardless of weather or not it carries men is a hazard to all road users, my family is on the road......I'm sure yours is to.

[Ranch11]

I'd write up about 26 hazard ID's on that trailer and get your safety rep involved. Take pics, heck, even present in a safety meeting.

[winged1]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

No one is taking chance and I resent the fact that you can just throw or an accusation .
Calling DOT or OH&S IS the correct thing to go however because if a person raise crisp on the job of quits nothing gets done except they person loses their job.
I did that once when I was 20 years old and that rest if the crew stated.
Turns out the contractor was not liable as the situation dud not warrant charges .
You may think they I know nothing about industry , cases law concerning OH$S regulations etched But you could not be more wrong .
There are proper ways and procedures to gets things changed and to get dangerous conditions stopped , ranting about it pr quitting is not the way .
Your insinuation ( or maybe outright accusation) that I am a lousy tradesman is also not only inaccurate but insulting .
Cat

He is unlikely qualified to make such a demeaning comment, and I think that is the point of this thread. I've called it a case of insubordination, due to my belief that the call was outside of this tradesmans jurisdiction. We partner with the board, develop our programs, and mentor our workers to produce professional tradespeople. I don't think this forum is a vehicle in that process. I'm sure the OP was looking for a warm fuzzy from his online buds. It is what it is.

[nekred]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Ok I'm gonna get flamed for this. So I am sorry.
They are your employers. Weld as you are told. Jobs are tough now. You are not in danger so cannot play the unsafe work card. Now if you were an engineer and had to sign off on the fix, that is a different story.

You said you had your asbestos suit ready!...

I hope you are never in this situation where you can jeopardize PUBLIC safety....

Refusing unsafe work is not just about your safety....

[lmtada]

Tell them it disappeared. Put new trailer on want list.
I worked for a rig manager many decades ago. We needed some new ladders for around rig. He had me line them all up on the location near dumpster. Then told me to go get the loader. He had me drive over the ladders a few times. Then he ordered new Ladders. No one was ever injured on his rigs.

[Hagalaz]

Originally Posted by New Hunter Okotoks

Let me tell you this, if something catastrophic happens as a result of an improperly repaired trailer, the first thing your bosses are going to do is throw you under the bus. Guaranteed.

Agreed.

I second this advice.