Worldviews

[avb3]

Originally Posted by 30Cal

I've answered the 144,000 earlier in this post, don't plan on going over it again. Too much overlap or reduncy going on.
...

You did? Could you link to the post, as I could not find it doing a search on this thread.

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by 30Cal

I've answered the 144,000 earlier in this post, don't plan on going over it again. Too much overlap or reduncy going on.

And in respect to whether the Bible is literal or metaphorical, it can be all of the aformention and more.

If a person were to take the scripture where Jesus said: "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:60), literally they would have to seriously ask themselves how do dead people bury dead people or are zombies bury the dead. Fortunately, there are a few of us out here that have a little more God given intelligence to understand that Jesus is refering to the spiritually dead. He is telling the listener to move on and preach the gospel because those he was with are dead, although they might still be moving their spirit is dead. Unfortunately, not all will listen to Jesus.

One should take the time to consider the context, time, audience, entire chapter, book, historical setting, customs, and many other factors or variables that were in place when the scriptures that they read was compiled, if they ever expect to have any understanding. More specifically, one should turn to the Author (Spirit) of the Book if ever expect to receive the fullness that are within it's pages or any understanding at all.

God Bless - hope everyone has a great weekend.

VERY well said, 30cal .
But then, we've been arguing that point throughout this thread, haven't we!

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

VERY well said, 30cal .
But then, we've been arguing that point throughout this thread, haven't we!

Perhaps to make it easy for those of us who "don't get it", which parts of the bible are we to take literally, and which ones not?

Or are we free to pick and choose as the spirit moves us?

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by avb3

Perhaps to make it easy for those of us who "don't get it", which parts of the bible are we to take literally, and which ones not?

Or are we free to pick and choose as the spirit moves us?

hence the term cafeteria christians.

the bible says homosexuality is unnatural, but says nothing about a talking snake being unnatural, or that lying with a woman while on her menstral period is unnatural, people pick and choose what parts to follow and ignore.

[covey ridge]

30 cal,

You obviously have studied the Bible and know its words. No one can question that. I for one do not think you know Jesus or the father who sent him. The words of the book are meant to uplift and inspire, but you continually use them to put down or beat down or with an air of self righteous judgement. You have done this right from your first post when you asked an obvious non believer “if he believed that Jesus Christ was the son of God and manifested in the flesh?”Post 21. Every post has shown the same attitude.

You even said that you hoped to be a teacher of doctrine, but everything that you post is nothing but cutting and pasting of scripture. All done with a beat down, put down judgemental air. You really do not know of what you speak. You once said that I do not make the test, I just administer the test. You obviously do that but I do not think that you have earned that right or that you do it with any thought or love.

Knowledge with love is wisdom.

Knowledge without love is only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

I am sure that some who are impressed with your many words or maybe those that are like you or like minded, think you're great, but I think you may be standing in the way of real Christian faith. I think that you have overindulged of the fruit of knowledge without love. I think you are a wolf in sheep's clothing.

30 cal, you need salvation!

[avb3]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

hence the term cafeteria christians.

the bible says homosexuality is unnatural, but says nothing about a talking snake being unnatural, or that lying with a woman while on her menstral period is unnatural, people pick and choose what parts to follow and ignore.

And then there is all that stuff about having to stone your neighbor if he works on the Sabbath, or stone your child if it won't listen. Some how that part of Leviticus is no longer valid, but other parts, well, let's just say those who say the bible is inerrant, will often point to.

Oh, but they will, say, Jesus changed all that when he said he came to fulfill the law. We can now eat pork, don't have to stone people anymore or kill neighboring tribes.

OK, let's just go with that one for a minute or two.

So, why then don't we follow Mark 7:10, which says that those kids who curse their parents have to die. Wonder if stoning is still appropriate? I mean, Jesus did say he didn't come to bring peace, but came with a sword.(Matthew 10:34)

Of course Romans 1:32 says the best penalty for being homosexual or lesbian is death. Or does one interpret this that people who don't worship God will be turned gay? One doesn't have to be a fan of those whose sexual preferences are different then most of us to see how wrong it is to KILL people who are homosexuals.

Ya gotta love a book which likes violence so much.

[eastcoast]

or you could ask god to help injure peyton manning this year

it's all hypocracy man that's why I figured this stuff out when I was 6 years old, I guess you have to stop that questioning in your head if you want to believe.

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by avb3

Perhaps to make it easy for those of us who "don't get it", which parts of the bible are we to take literally, and which ones not?

Or are we free to pick and choose as the spirit moves us?

If the Spirit of Almighty God (not some Greek concept of the 'inner logos') is moving you to "get it" you WILL "get it". Ah, but that's the 'kicker' isn't it - one must willingly submit to the Spirit of God for that to happen.

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by avb3

Ya gotta love a book which likes violence so much.

It's not the book that likes violence so much, nor is it the God of the book that likes violence (as some here keep trying to insist) - it's the people the Book is addressed to who like violence so much!

In a way the Book holds up a mirror to humans and says , "This is you as fallen-in-sin people. And there are consequences to that." God's Word in the Book reveals the flip side - His way of good, perfect, righteous living. If people actually tried, in the Spirit of God, to follow Christ Jesus this world would be a better place. But 'we' would rather follow any number of other ways that leave the true God out - in fact, as this season of the Christian year shows us - 'we' crucified His Son Jesus so 'we' could get God out of the picture - so we collectively suffer.

'We' just didn't know that that played right into God's plan for our salvation all along. God's wisdom is far, far superior to anything 'we' have or can come up with. And that's what takes faith to believe.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

If the Spirit of Almighty God (not some Greek concept of the 'inner logos') is moving you to "get it" you WILL "get it". Ah, but that's the 'kicker' isn't it - one must willingly submit to the Spirit of God for that to happen.

Submitted to the Spirit of God:

Jim Baker
Benny Hinn
Ted Haggard
Jeremiah Wright
Jimmy Swaggart
Ken Copeland

Oh, the field is so rich with those who have been filled with the Spirit of God.

Many who evangelicals stood up for even AFTER they were exposed.

So, how can you tell who really has the Spirit of God, as you say it, in them?

Is it any wonder that so many people look at these and say, "Hypocrite!".

Maybe listening to the inner logos just is more genuine and spiritual in recognizing a higher power as opposed to those that follow these and others?

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

It's not the book that likes violence so much, nor is it the God of the book that likes violence (as some here keep trying to insist) - it's the people the Book is addressed to who like violence so much!

Interesting then isn't it that the book keeps talking, both in the OT and the NT, about all the violence that is threatened or should be undertaken upon innocents like children.

How can you as a pastor look yourself in the mirror and say, "Yup, I'll buy into that, I just won't talk about it in my sermons'? Or if you DO talk about it in your sermons, how the heck can you justify the literal sense of stoning children, selling your daughter, or killing homosexuals? Because as I pointed out, THAT is what the bible teaches, and no, it is not misinterpreting it. IF you assume inerrancy and a literal reading.

If you start to look at it metaphorically or allegorically, which Jesus did in the parables, then I can see some use of it as a spiritual guide. If you preach ANY of it literally, then you have to take it all literally, otherwise your picking and choosing.

The "spirit of God" thing is a cop out to saying one must be filled with it to understand the bible.

In a way the Book holds up a mirror to humans and says , "This is you as fallen-in-sin people. And there are consequences to that." God's Word in the Book reveals the flip side - His way of good, perfect, righteous living. If people actually tried, in the Spirit of God, to follow Christ Jesus this world would be a better place.

You mean as in "I didn't come in peace but with a sword"? Sounds righteous to me. As does Mark 7:10 - great lesson.... kill your children if they curse you. Or let's kill homosexuals (Romans 1:32).

But 'we' would rather follow any number of other ways that leave the true God out - in fact, as this season of the Christian year shows us - 'we' crucified His Son Jesus so 'we' could get God out of the picture - so we collectively suffer.

All because of some silly woman offering a fruit to her husband way back when? And because of her offering and his acceptance all other people of course were sinful, that just makes sense. Now, the fact that the story says that if they were to die if they ate the fruit, and of course, we know that didn't happen for hundreds of years later according to the tale, did it?

But wait, there's more!

God was unhappy because of all the people except Noah's family were bad, so lots of water later, they all were drowned. Seeing Noah and family were worthy, how did "original sin" continue?

'We' just didn't know that that played right into God's plan for our salvation all along. God's wisdom is far, far superior to anything 'we' have or can come up with. And that's what takes faith to believe.

But 'We' as humans show our lack of understanding of a higher power by feeling the need to anthropomorphising it. Why? Because 'We' seem to have the need to limit any understanding of higher power beyond that which is in our image (and yes, I know the bible has it the other way around).

Pretty egotistical of us. We write the book that sets down the rules and then point the book to prove the book is true. And you don't see a problem with that?

The 'Spirit of God' has been the drive for so much of humanities suffering due to wars, pogroms, inquisitions, witch trials, and conflicts that one really needs to question the value of that. All was done in the name of religion. All of it. And all claimed to be filled by the 'Spirit of God'.

[30Cal]

Originally Posted by avb3

You did? Could you link to the post, as I could not find it doing a search on this thread.

Post No. 232 and 655

[30Cal]

Originally Posted by avb3

Submitted to the Spirit of God:

Jim Baker
Benny Hinn
Ted Haggard
Jeremiah Wright
Jimmy Swaggart
Ken Copeland

Oh, the field is so rich with those who have been filled with the Spirit of God.

Many who evangelicals stood up for even AFTER they were exposed.

So, how can you tell who really has the Spirit of God, as you say it, in them?

Is it any wonder that so many people look at these and say, "Hypocrite!".

Maybe listening to the inner logos just is more genuine and spiritual in recognizing a higher power as opposed to those that follow these and others?

For a gent that seems to depend on scientific or real evidence, I find it puzzling that you now want to give testimony in respect to these individuals and their spiritual disposition or position?

Who's to say whether these individuals were spirit filled or not? If anytihng we will all find out for the tree is know by it's fruit. And if what they are doing for is for it will produce a crop, if not it will perish.

"Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers." - Luke 6:44

And not to disappoint you, but Christians are forgiven not perfect, and some will stumble. Subsequently, this is better than the many who do not believe that fall.

To understand you better I would have to get your definition of this logos that you claim is inside you? And the higher power you are referring to?

[avb3]

Originally Posted by 30Cal

Post No. 232 and 655

Did we not answer this question before? The 144,000 are selected from the tribes of Israel. Yet this number does not put a cap on the number that have, and will be saved.

"After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands." (Rev 7:9)

I think that Rev 7:9 does answer my point... thanks. See, I can cede a point

Yes, I know the Jehovah Witnesses have a basis of their faith the discussion of the 144,000. Interestingly enough, the various tribes of Israel, are not the same in all parts of the bible. Is it 12 or 13? See various lists in Genesis 49, Numbers 1, Numbers 13, Deuteronomy 33, Ezekiel 48, and Revelation 7.

Gee, here I concede one point, look at the passage, and it rings a bell that "Hey! Where is the tribe of Dan?" (Tribe of Levi is missing in Numbers 1 and 13 - you know, the one the rabbis come from).

So, once again, the bible contradicts itself. Why does that keep happening?

[avb3]

Originally Posted by 30Cal

For a gent that seems to depend on scientific or real evidence, I find it puzzling that you now want to give testimony in respect to these individuals and their spiritual disposition or position?

Any testimony came from a multitude of evangelicals. Over years and years.

Who's to say whether these individuals were spirit filled or not? If anytihng we will all find out for the tree is know by it's fruit. And if what they are doing for is for it will produce a crop, if not it will perish.

That is the easy out always given AFTER the fact. However, should any non-evangelical DARE say anything before hand, you know thousands will come to the defense of the preacher, right? I mean, many evangelicals believe Benny Hinn is real and "God fearing", even though it has been shown what a fraud he is.

To understand you better I would have to get your definition of this logos that you claim is inside you? And the higher power you are referring to?

I'll answer this one separately, with references to the multitude of posts where I have outline it.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by 30Cal

To understand you better I would have to get your definition of this logos that you claim is inside you? And the higher power you are referring to?

Well, brother 30Cal, to better understand you one would have to get your definition of God? I know he is named many times in inscripture and often spoken of, but I would like to get your definition. What He looks like? Does he have arms and legs and fingers and toes and a mouth, eyes and ears. Does he have genitals? Is he clothed or naked? Does he in any way look like a human being? Is He always invisable? When he spoke to the guys in the old testament or appeared to them as it is often said. Did guys like Abraham see a man type figure and hear a voice? I know 3 men visited and were entertained by Abraham and Sarah I have often been told it was God and a couple of angel side kicks. I know it is said that Moses spoke to God face to face but another time we are told that God told Moses that he could not see him and live, but allowed Moses a butt view as he walked by. Which is it? If God is anthromorphic as you claim or don't deny, what does he look like? You do have a personal relationship or is it just one sided where he can see you but you can not see him? Please don't say all one has to do is look at Jesus! No one knows what Jesus looked like. Often portrayed as white with a beard and white robes. I doubt that. He was a Palistinian peasant, so I doubt if he was white and I doubt if his robes were white. You seem to ask a lot of questions, but you do not provide any answers, other than by the book. We've allready read that!

I am surprised that a Christian learned man like yourself does not know Logos as it is in the very first Chapter of John? In the beginning was the Logos and the Logos was with God and the Logos was.....

btw later in that same chapter it is written No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. Can you define your God?

[30Cal]

Originally Posted by avb3

Any testimony came from a multitude of evangelicals. Over years and years.



That is the easy out always given AFTER the fact. However, should any non-evangelical DARE say anything before hand, you know thousands will come to the defense of the preacher, right? I mean, many evangelicals believe Benny Hinn is real and "God fearing", even though it has been shown what a fraud he is.



I'll answer this one separately, with references to the multitude of posts where I have outline it.

Your right thousands often come to the defence of a preacher, but like you have shown, even those who do not believe can discern but by what measure? Please, don't miss understand me. I'm not defending any of these men if they have done something wrong. They have to give account for their own actions.

By the way, it's nice conversing with you again.

[30Cal]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

And I do not think that Paul new anything about an historical Jesus!

And as what you think? I think, that you do not think much or are afraid to think and that you just babble scripture

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I never asked you about the 144000! I just think that if your God only planned to save only 144000, your god was a failure at the salvation business.

Actually one would have a tough time reconciling the God of the OT with the one Jesus called the Father. The god of the old testament had too many human characteristics and actually the worst of human characteristics.

If Jesus was God, he probably would have been better than his dad who never seemed to get it right. Father God should have himself listened in on the Sermon on the mount and got a few ideas on how to run an OT

30 cal, I really think you do not know anything about God.

I think that it will take more than a laying on of hands to cure you.

You have a a nice weekend as well. Hope to hear from you ......never

Paul was personally confronted and picked by Jesus to finish most of the New Testament, so I not certain what you mean that Paul did not know anything about the historical Jesus. (Acts 9:3-5)

It's unfortunate that you feel that I "babble scripture". More specifically, I don't know if your god gives you any direction in your life, but my God does. "He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." - Mark 16:15. God's word is that good news. And seed has to be sown if we expect it to fall on good soil, where it will produce a harvest or an excellent crop. Who knows maybe even a tree might grow from that seed from which mankind might find rest and shade.

"A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds of the air ate it up. Some fell on rock, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown." When he said this, he called out, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." - Luke 8:5-8


As to whether I think much - I have a head who is Christ. Therefore, I think a lot. It's those who do not believe that would not be able to think or understand because they don't have a head.

"Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." - Eph 5:23


If you had read the earlier post you would understand that there are more than 144000. So my God has already saved a lot, and is going to save a whole lot more - Amen

"After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands." - Rev. 7:9

I think we concluded earlier in this thread that we do not believe in the same God. I would not have any difficulty recognizing or reconciling that the God of the Old Testament is the God of the New Testament, who can be known through Jesus Christ. Better yet, the fullness of God could be seen or dwelt in Jesus, the best of all human characters.

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." - John 1:14

"Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?" - John 14:9

In respect to your comment as to whether I know anything about God, well...I'm guessing your directing that statement with your god in mind. If that is the case, then I can easily concede by saying that your correct I do not know a lot about your god. Thus, how well I know my God remain between me and my Lord Jesus Christ, and to anyone who He wishes to give insight about me to.

I'm delighted to see that you do acknowledge that the laying on of hands can heal someone.

http://www.dianedew.com/layhands.htm

You wish me a nice weekend and then say hope to hear from you....never? But then you post a thread #1445 and you're addressing me again. I'm sensing a wave.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by 30Cal

.....
To understand you better I would have to get your definition of this logos that you claim is inside you? And the higher power you are referring to?

I've posted this in numerous past posts. As covey ridge indicated, John 1 talks about the logos in the esoteric and gnostic sense (it still surprises me that John made it into the gospels, and Thomas or Mary didn't).

I talk about it in posts 574, 619 (please particularly note my comments

"I don't see you understanding that there is a greater spiritual message from looking at our universe as a whole, and how it affects us, how we relate to it, and how that impacts the logos inside, as opposed to an anthropomorphic deity. Mistagn was correct in surmising that a Stoic influence would shape my world view, along with a healthy look at the Gnostic. Those are spiritual levels that cannot be attained by literalizing any sort of scriptures, and sadly those that close their minds and eyes to that possibility restrict that spiritual understanding and growth.",

637, 962 particularly the comment "

Try and open up your heart to see the Logos within in the way the Stoics described it. You can then see the bible as a spiritual guide, not a history book. The authors never intended it to be a historical guide at all, which is why there is such a divergence in the synoptic verus John's gospel, why Paul's writings border on the gnostic and esoteric, and the only reason the OT is included in the books that men voted on to be included is to have an attempt at showing a connection in "prophecy". Even then, it is poorly done and full of errors, including Jesus talking about prophecies that never existed.",

1232, 1288, 1335, 1393, 1409, 1416 and of course 1420.

I hope that answers your query.

[30Cal]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

30 cal,

You obviously have studied the Bible and know its words. No one can question that. I for one do not think you know Jesus or the father who sent him. The words of the book are meant to uplift and inspire, but you continually use them to put down or beat down or with an air of self righteous judgement. You have done this right from your first post when you asked an obvious non believer “if he believed that Jesus Christ was the son of God and manifested in the flesh?”Post 21. Every post has shown the same attitude.

You even said that you hoped to be a teacher of doctrine, but everything that you post is nothing but cutting and pasting of scripture. All done with a beat down, put down judgemental air. You really do not know of what you speak. You once said that I do not make the test, I just administer the test. You obviously do that but I do not think that you have earned that right or that you do it with any thought or love.

Knowledge with love is wisdom.

Knowledge without love is only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

I am sure that some who are impressed with your many words or maybe those that are like you or like minded, think you're great, but I think you may be standing in the way of real Christian faith. I think that you have overindulged of the fruit of knowledge without love. I think you are a wolf in sheep's clothing.

30 cal, you need salvation!

When did I ever claim to be righteous, or even good? And is this not a contradiction of terms "The words of the book are meant to uplift and inspire" Then you go on to say that "but you continually use them to put down or beat down." If the word is as you claim in the former, then how can it be changed in the latter? Dear Sir...the word makes a man conscious of sin. The word is uplifting and inspiring in that it gives hope and confirmation to all that believe in Jesus Christ. But to those who are perishing and chose to remain in their sins, how can you say it uplifts and inspire? If this was true, would they not turn and be saved? Should I hide the truth from them? What love would I then have?

The right to administer the test was given to me by the Lord Jesus Christ.

"Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world." - 1 John 4:1- 3
It appears to have bothered you in answering this test question? Would you be willing to explain why?

Please direct me to the post where I said I would like to be a teacher of doctrine, so I can be certain that what I have said is not being taken out of context - thankyou

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away." - 1 Corinthians 13:1-8

So then what is Love?

"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." - 1 John 4:8

Then how do I come to know God?

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6

Therefore, without Christ there is no Love? Have you accepted Jesus Christ into your life, or as some say heart, that you might have Love?

And what does God have to say about Wisdom or Knowledge?

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise." - Psalms 111:10

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding." - Proverbs 9:10

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline. - Proverbs 1:7

I've accepted Jesus Christ as my saviour, so I have salvation. Have you accepted Him as your lord and Saviour?

You say I'm a wolf in sheep's clothing then why is wolf printed beside your name in post in 1445?

[covey ridge]

[QUOTE=30Cal;1361021]

Paul was personally confronted and picked by Jesus to finish most of the New Testament, so I not certain what you mean that Paul did not know anything about the historical Jesus. (Acts 9:3-5)

I have given my reasons before, I will not again. The letters of Paul were written way before the gospels and probably Pauls Christ was invented before as well. Most scholars agree that the acts has two authosr, and the story changes dramaticly when Paul arrives. Me thinks sewed together!

[covey ridge]

[QUOTE=30Cal;1361021]

It's unfortunate that you feel that I "babble scripture". More specifically, I don't know if your god gives you any direction in your life, but my God does. "He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." - Mark 16:15. God's word is that good news. And seed has to be sown if we expect it to fall on good soil, where it will produce a harvest or an excellent crop. Who knows maybe even a tree might grow from that seed from which mankind might find rest and shade.

What I find unfortujnate is that you think there are more than one God. I do not think that, I just think that we both understand God different. Yes he did say to preach the good news (that's what gospel means) to all the world. He did not say to condem all those who do not believe the way you do, and if it does, I will simply not buy it. Even John has Jesus say I have not come to condem etc. Cut the parabels. I understand them as well or better than you do. Remember I am one who argues that the Bible has a higher message than just farming stories.

[covey ridge]

[QUOTE=30Cal;1361021]

As to whether I think much - I have a head who is Christ. Therefore, I think a lot. It's those who do not believe that would not be able to think or understand because they don't have a head.

Thank you very much for that insult, but I will use the head that God gave me! Sorry that I have to reply in chunks but AO times me out if I spend too much time. That is also why I do npt spell check

[covey ridge]

[QUOTE=30Cal;1361021]

I think we concluded earlier in this thread that we do not believe in the same God. I would not have any difficulty recognizing or reconciling that the God of the Old Testament is the God of the New Testament, who can be known through Jesus Christ. Better yet, the fullness of God could be seen or dwelt in Jesus, the best of all human characters.

No you conclude that. I think that I concluded that we do not agree or have the same point of view. You believe what you been told without questioning? I don't. There are so many gods in the old testament that I can only conclude that there are just many different points of view and none of them have the character that Jesus does and if Jesus existed I think He was just a man who knew the one true God. Jesus is not the only one to call his god Father.

[30Cal]

[QUOTE=covey ridge;1361132]

Originally Posted by 30Cal

What I find unfortujnate is that you think there are more than one God. I do not think that, I just think that we both understand God different. Yes he did say to preach the good news (that's what gospel means) to all the world. He did not say to condem all those who do not believe the way you do, and if it does, I will simply not buy it. Even John has Jesus say I have not come to condem etc. Cut the parabels. I understand them as well or better than you do. Remember I am one who argues that the Bible has a higher message than just farming stories.

I've never said there is more than one God?

Make sure you read the whole context of the message.

"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." - 1 John 3:17-18

Do you feel condemn? If you believe in Him you shouldn't right? But if you don't believe in Him, you stand condemn right?

If you feel condemn, how could this be?

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" - Romans 8:1

Are you in Him or not? So what about those who are not in Him? Will they feel condemn? And if they do why?

The answers are in the above noted scripture.

[covey ridge]

[QUOTE=30Cal;1361021]

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." - John 1:14

"Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?" - John 14:9

Maybe there is hope for you after all! Jesus is teaching Philip (notice how John preaches against the names of other gnostics) a bit about recognizing the Logos that he called father.

[30Cal]

The world was already condemn when it fell from God's grace. It was condemn by God. Christ came to save mankind as it already stood condemn.

[covey ridge]

[QUOTE=30Cal;1361021]

In respect to your comment as to whether I know anything about God, well...I'm guessing your directing that statement with your god in mind. If that is the case, then I can easily concede by saying that your correct I do not know a lot about your god. Thus, how well I know my God remain between me and my Lord Jesus Christ, and to anyone who He wishes to give insight about me to.

Here we go again with this my god your god stuff. Give it a break. You had no problem asking about the relationship I had with my God and you wanted me to share it on this forum for the good of the world. Brother 30Cal you are a hypocritter when you claim the right to keep your relationship between you and your Lord Jesus.

If laying on of hands works, brother 30Cal, you sure need it.

As you judge, you will be judged!

[30Cal]

Gotta go, wife wants to go out for a walk. It's been nice hearing from you again Covey

God Bless ...and take care

[covey ridge]

[QUOTE=30Cal;1361163]

The world was already condemn when it fell from God's grace. It was condemn by God. Christ came to save mankind as it already stood condemn.[/

QUOTE]

All I can say that a god who condemned his creation so soon after he created them, is not much of a creator and not much of a god. I believe that God is better than that!