Wild horses?

[Matt L.]

X2 sheepguide! It's caused me no end of confusion as well.

[yukon12]

O.k. Guys - some guys like the horses, some guys do not, some are on the fence but do we all agree that some horses die of natural causes and not every horse found in the woods dead has to have been shot.

Bob Henderson finds horses all the time and says thier shot lots of them are skeltons and have not evidince of being shot. But they are all shot.

Second if what the Mountain Aire Lodge guys are saying is true then they pulled a skelton out of the trees. With no physical evidince of being shot and because to serious crack adicts knew it was there they decided to make a story up that someone shot it to try and get 25,000.00 and the RCMP could care less if its true they just need a arrest to try and shut Bob up in the papers.

If this is true what they are saying it could happen to anyone. If you travel through the bush enough west of Sundre you will find horse skeltons and other animals for that matter and if all it takes is a couple of guys making a story up about it to get you charged than God help us all.

Bob needs to stop saying every dead horse is a shot horse.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

So when is the season? Lots of guys are against these horses and tahts fine but there are alot of things said that isnt 100% true. One that they eat everybit of grass out there... well as the pics that ive posted on here show, thats is far from the truth. Second, sure that horse may have chased that ewe off but I have also seen hundeds of times when deer, elk, moose and horses have been in licks at the same time and also feeding in the same medows.

For sure numbers should be controled but lots of other things need our attention in our back country before we jump to eliminating the horse herds.

Maybe all you guys should bring your children out and show them a horse that as ran wild for its hole life and say to them, Daddy wants it dead!!!
My first memories of being in the west country have these horses in them as does anyone that has been out there much. They were there before onyone on here was and yet now that they dont fit in to what WE want they have to go!!

If someone on here can show a direct cause of horses causing the decline in wild animal populations or causing wild life to stave then fly right at her. But that sure isnt the case.

Just alot of guys that dont like them for what ever reason. 90% of which only spend a week or so where these horses live anyways. They go hunting in an area and see no elk but see a few horses and automaticly say that because of them horses the elk are all gone. Well maybe you should look at the bigger picture of problems!

JMHO and my rant for the day!

SG

well, you dont think they should be shot. ok. as i said, i didnt say it was right or wrong. now i will though. i am kinda leaning toward wrong for the simple fact that i dont like to see killing just for the sake of it. as for the gophers i like to kill....well, i think its a whack of fun, but you can arguably say they are a pest and landowners are happy to have me. i wish you had quoted the whole sentence rather than a few words, but ok ill explain. my point is as far as i understand there is no season, therefore they werent shot out of season...get it? the rest of the sentence also said they arent considered wildlife and arent protected in any other way, so why exactly are these guys being charged? if there is a law broken here, what is it. thats what i meant saying i dont get it.

[guywiththemule]

Yukon ; you hit the nail right on the head ! These so called horse lovers (kiss and hug variety) are going to create the same wreck that they have in the U.S. with unwanted slaughter horses and no way to dispose of them.(thank you PETA) I speak from experience because me and my family have lived in the Sundre area and dealt with wildies for over 50 years. I have also dealt with these wild horses as a goverment agent and a private citizen and a hunter and there is a lot of propaganda and polictical b%#*&*it concerning these horses. There is only one permit holder for the wildies this year, thanks in part to the kissy-huggy crowd. There are far too many now and they need to be properly culled so they do not become a future problem.

[Albertadiver]

Looks like another guy is charged too...
http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...ub=CalgaryHome

Four people, three men and a teenaged boy, are now charged in connection with the death of a horse near Sundre.

Gary Cope is now also facing charges in connection with the shooting of a horse sometime between May and October 2009.

Jason Nixon, Earl Anderson, and a 13-year-old boy are also charged with offences including killing cattle and careless use of a firearm.

Nixon is also charged with assault, obstruction, and uttering threats.

He is the son of Pat Nixon, founder of the Mustard Seed Street Ministry in Calgary.

At least two of the men charged worked at the Mountainaire Lodge near Sundre.

As many as 30 wild horses in the area have been killed in the past 10 years but charges have only been laid in a single case.

None of accused appeared in person for their appearance in Didsbury Monday.

The youth in the case will be facing trial alone but it isn't clear if the other three men will be tried together or separately.

[Albertadiver]

And another update from the Advocate... Interesting how he already had a firearms prohibition order???



http://www.albertalocalnews.com/redd..._85977007.html


Calgary man charged in shooting of horses near Sundre

There are a number of wild horses living west of Sundre.

Buy Red Deer Advocate Photos Online

Published: March 02, 2010 10:11 AM
Updated: March 02, 2010 10:36 AM
A Calgary man is the latest person charged in a series of wild horse shootings in the Sundre area.

Gary Cape, 35, is charged with willfully killing cattle for a single instance of allegedly shooting a feral horse between May and October.

He has also been charged with using a firearm in a careless manner and possession of a firearm contrary to a probation order.

The charges are the result of an ongoing investigation involving Sundre RCMP, Didsbury RCMP, K Division Livestock Section, and Alberta Sustainable Resource Development fish and wildlife officers.

Cape appeared in Didsbury provincial court on Monday and all matters were set over to March 29 to speak to.

Since 2002, about 30 horses have been found dead in the West Country where more than 300 are running wild. Twenty horses were found rotting west of Sundre in 2007 and a reward of $21,000 has been gathered for information leading to an arrest.

Anyone who may have witnessed suspicious activity in the area or who has information on the death of wild horses is asked to call Sundre RCMP at 403-638-3675 or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477.

[Grizzly Adams]

[QUOTE=Albertadiver;525435]And another update from the Advocate... Interesting how he already had a firearms prohibition order???

Could be one of the Mountainaire's "rehab" cases.

Grizz

[guywiththemule]

I would be curious to know where the figure "more than 300 in the west country" comes from, since no department of the Alberta government wants to deal with or have responsibility for these horses except L.I.S. in a very limited way. Could the number be the romantic daydreaming of a certain ex-calgary policeman/wild horse lover with connections that the media likes listening to?

[grandmaster]

You guys are more anal about horses than those ugly gas wells that are scattered everywhere. They make more of a mess and are as ugly as anything. Who wants to see them in a pristine area. The horses have less impact than all that drilling and logging. they are more natural than the man made crap. Give it a rest for cryin' out loud, it's just a herd of free range feral horses mingled in with free range cattle. I'd rather see that than flare stacks any day!

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by grandmaster

You guys are more anal about horses than those ugly gas wells that are scattered everywhere. They make more of a mess and are as ugly as anything. Who wants to see them in a pristine area. The horses have less impact than all that drilling and logging. they are more natural than the man made crap. Give it a rest for cryin' out loud, it's just a herd of free range feral horses mingled in with free range cattle. I'd rather see that than flare stacks any day!

How's things going for you these days Wiebo?

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by grandmaster

You guys are more anal about horses than those ugly gas wells that are scattered everywhere. They make more of a mess and are as ugly as anything. Who wants to see them in a pristine area. The horses have less impact than all that drilling and logging. they are more natural than the man made crap. Give it a rest for cryin' out loud, it's just a herd of free range feral horses mingled in with free range cattle. I'd rather see that than flare stacks any day!

Do you heat your house or place of employment with only wood? Do you walk everywhere in the world that you go? Do you walk out west to see these horses and prestine places?
Your house is im sure built of wood also.
So until you quit supporting the forestry and oil/gas industry you have no reson to make any such comments.
Its easy to say these industries hurt our enviroment but everyone on this forum use something supplied by them everyday!
SG

[guywiththemule]

Originally Posted by grandmaster

You guys are more anal about horses than those ugly gas wells that are scattered everywhere. They make more of a mess and are as ugly as anything. Who wants to see them in a pristine area. The horses have less impact than all that drilling and logging. they are more natural than the man made crap. Give it a rest for cryin' out loud, it's just a herd of free range feral horses mingled in with free range cattle. I'd rather see that than flare stacks any day!

What does " free range cattle" mean? I would like to hear your definition. If you want to actually learn something about wild horses on the eastern slopes of Alberta read the Tuesday,March 2, 2010 edition of the Mountain View Gazette; Special Report on the Feral Problem by Clare Tannas. It might open your eyes a little. Also what SG said !

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

How's things going for you these days Wiebo?

took the words outta my mouth!

[ESOXangler]

that weibo comment was priceless

Well heres what i say we do. Lets push all the "kissy huggy" stuff away grab the semi autos and go be manly men and eliminate the wild horses. Sorry feral horses. After that mission is complete lets go poison the bow river. Those pesky bows and browns are hard on the bulls and suckers. Shoot lets just poison every lake cause at some point and time most lakes had nothing in them. So that makes every fish everywhere an invasive species. Then lets start getting rid of the pheasants, too fancy of a bird for me anyways.
the point of this rant is things change. just because something wasnt there 600 years ago doesnt mean it shouldnt be there today. Its evolution no matter what the shape.

P.S Horses were in north america until around 15000 years ago, some scientists suggest that it was early man that hunted them to extinction

[predatorzedge]

Well kinda gonna stick my neck out there on this topic but I do disagree with shooting all the wild horses/feral horses but instead why not let some of us wranglers in to throw a rope on them. She would definately be a rough go around but could decrease the population for some of you guys. I`m pretty sure its legal to do if they are on private land. If anyone has them crossing private lands an it is legal to throw a rope on a few I would be more than willing to come an help you with the problem. PM me if anyone wants some roped, im up for a challenge on them for a good horse later on in the pastures an mountains. Thanks

[Redfrog]

"P.S Horses were in north america until around 15000 years ago, some scientists suggest that it was early man that hunted them to extinction"

Yep probably got tired of them ruining the grazing for the elk and deer.

[bessiedog]

Never had horse meat. Does it taste ok?

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Never had horse meat. Does it taste ok?

Actually quite tasty.

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by guywiththemule

I would be curious to know where the figure "more than 300 in the west country" comes from, since no department of the Alberta government wants to deal with or have responsibility for these horses except L.I.S. in a very limited way.:

I have lived and worked in the west country for the past few years. I would say that 300 is understated. I agree with most, we should be culling these animals. They are aggressive and run our native animals off prime winter pasture. Not to mention they are stupid and make driving to work downright dangerous for both us Oil Patch Guys and folks in the forestry industry.

Last fall I actually phoned SRD and inquired about using ferral horses as bait. I coulda sworn the Fish cop almost fell outa his chair. When it came down to the nitty gritty, he would be unable to charge me with anything that wasn't a stretch. He told me the RCMP would lay the charges. After a phone call to the RCMP... basically (as shown in the news story at the start of this thread) they told me that they would charge me with shooting livestock.

To charge you with shooting livestock they would have to prove ownership of the animal you shot. (Even if it belonged to the government)... The other charge they gave the guys (Using a firearm in a careless manner) is going to be pretty hard to prove unless the guys dropped the horse on the side of the road... or somebody saw them do something illegal when they shot the horse(s).

At the end of the day; I think a good lawyer would destroy the crown prosecutor trying to pin these charges on a guy... The only question is shooting a ferral horse worth the 10 000 dollars to defend yourself.

The whole argument for "wild horses" is flawed... What would these people say if they were Rats? or Racoons? Whats gonna happen when the first Canmore-ian with a fleece & a camera gets stomped by a big ol stallion?

If I had more money I would release alligators into the Red Deer and start a society to raise money to stop winter from killing them.

If I had more money I would release alligators into the Red Deer and start a society to raise money to stop winter from killing them.

Now that was hilarious!

[yukon12]

Sneeze hit the nail on the head. There is no law that protects the Feral horses. As I said I know the acused group and speak to them often. They each have a differnt lawyer so that is four lawyers who are all saying no such charge and it will never hold up. Someone has to own the animals for it to stick and the Alberta goverment will not take ressponsibility for them so charge will not hold up.

Also something not talked about is the RCMP still has not discloused any evidince yet. Which I think is another sign that the case is very weak. These guys are back in court on the 29th and the crown has already told their lawyers that there will be no discloure yet so another month will go by. Lawyers suspect that the crown will drag it out for months hoping that one of the guys just says screw it to get it over with. These guys will not they are looking forward to proving the RCMP are idiots.

Once this is over and it is proven that there is no law against shooting feral horses than say good bye to them as locals will shoot them all on site. If you are against that then stop gopher hunting and feral hog hunting.

Anyone that is pro feral horses should do a little research on what they are doing to the enviorment. If you love feral horses take them home and feed them and leave the grass for the real wild animals that need it.

The sad part is that there are 9 witness including the four accused that say the horse was dead already and this group moved it to make the road safe and there is one guy who wants to make 25,000.00 reward that makes up a story and the RCMP waist everyones time for probally a couple of years.

I for one being someone who drives the roads out their regularly sure apreciate the mountain aire lodge guys taking the time to make the road safe and I am sorry they have to go through this bs because of a one idiot.

We should all write the RCMP and demand that they disclouse their so called evidince and let these guys have their day in court. But we all know how screwed up the RCMP is. So do not hold your breath on seeing this resolved for a least two years. What a waist of tax payer money meanwhile sheep and elk keep getting killed west of Sundre and Rocky and nothing is done.

The feral horse need to go. Either by gun or by truck and trailer to good homes but they need to go. I for one think we should drop them all off at the Wild Horse Guy out by olds house let him deal with them.

[Albertadiver]

Yukon,

I'm going to call BS on this.

How do you explain being charged with using a firearm in a careless manner and possession of a firearm contrary to a probation order?

Also, how do you explain the charges that Nixon is facing? He's charged with assault, utterting threats, and obstructing a Fish and Wildlife officer who was investigating the incident.

[yukon12]

That is easy - Careless use of a firearm charges steam from the fact they are alleged to have shot the horse from the side of the road. Horse was never shot charges will not stay. Using a firearm while on probation is the same thing they say that one of the acussed used a firearm when he shot the horse allegedly on the road and he had a probation order not to use firearms. Never happen so those charges are easy to explain.

When cops arrest people for weak cases they oftern try and a pile a bunch of charges on to make guys want to cut a deal. It is easy to charge someone hard to convict them.

There are four wintess that came upon the horse that had fallen on the road off the hill right by mountain aire lodge. The horse was trying to give birth to a colt. The witness tried to help the colt and took pictures of the horse which the acused lawyers now have that show no evidince of the horse being shot and the four wintess confirm that. Nixon and his group arrived on the scene after these four and moved the horse to make the road clear. Fish and Wildlife does not come out and move horses so locals have to.

The RCMP do not even know what day this was on and have only pulled a skelton out of the woods with no ballistic evidince and a crack head who says the horse was shot.

Once the RCMP who have not discloused a stick of evidince does then the defence gets there turn and the charges associated with the horse will be dropped. Add to that the fact that know one owns the horses and lawyers think that charged does not exist there will never be a conviction on the wild horses.

The other charges that are against Nixon are bs as well and will not hold up. Again the RCMP has still refused to disclouse evidince on that as well and have told Nixon if he pleads guilty to the bs horse charge then they will drop them.

The alleged assault - Nixon is acused of assaulting a witness. Four other witness that were at the scene have provided signed statments that say the assault never took place. There is no witness for the person that says they were assaulted and no physical evidince as it suposably took place four months before Nixon was arrested. So that charge is with out a doubt not going to hold up and has only been put forward to make Nixon look bad and as levarge against him.

The obstruction charge is because Nixon advised his co acussed to lawyer up and not talk to the police anymore. He paid for their lawyers so the cops tried to pull something out of thin air.

Lastly threating a fish a wildlife officer. that entire episode is on tape from both the fish and wildlife officer cameras and the mountain aire lodge cameras and nixon does and he will admit swear at the officer and tell him to get of the mountian aire lodge property but that is a far cry from threating.

There is a big differnce between charged with something and convicted of something.

So ask yourself why the RCMP will not disclouse there evidince.

Either way the horses are not owned by someone so the charges will not stick even if they did shoot them and then that will prove once and for all that the horses are not protected and then you all can say good bye to them. As all the locals who hate them and there are lots that hate them will shoot them all.

They deserve their day in court and until then they are not guilty to proven guilty. Unless you beleive in convicting a man just because the cops say something about him. If that is the case give your head a shake.

[guywiththemule]

Originally Posted by yukon12

Sneeze hit the nail on the head. There is no law that protects the Feral horses. As I said I know the acused group and speak to them often. They each have a differnt lawyer so that is four lawyers who are all saying no such charge and it will never hold up. Someone has to own the animals for it to stick and the Alberta goverment will not take ressponsibility for them so charge will not hold up.

Also something not talked about is the RCMP still has not discloused any evidince yet. Which I think is another sign that the case is very weak. These guys are back in court on the 29th and the crown has already told their lawyers that there will be no discloure yet so another month will go by. Lawyers suspect that the crown will drag it out for months hoping that one of the guys just says screw it to get it over with. These guys will not they are looking forward to proving the RCMP are idiots.

Once this is over and it is proven that there is no law against shooting feral horses than say good bye to them as locals will shoot them all on site. If you are against that then stop gopher hunting and feral hog hunting.

Anyone that is pro feral horses should do a little research on what they are doing to the enviorment. If you love feral horses take them home and feed them and leave the grass for the real wild animals that need it.

The sad part is that there are 9 witness including the four accused that say the horse was dead already and this group moved it to make the road safe and there is one guy who wants to make 25,000.00 reward that makes up a story and the RCMP waist everyones time for probally a couple of years.

I for one being someone who drives the roads out their regularly sure apreciate the mountain aire lodge guys taking the time to make the road safe and I am sorry they have to go through this bs because of a one idiot.

We should all write the RCMP and demand that they disclouse their so called evidince and let these guys have their day in court. But we all know how screwed up the RCMP is. So do not hold your breath on seeing this resolved for a least two years. What a waist of tax payer money meanwhile sheep and elk keep getting killed west of Sundre and Rocky and nothing is done.

The feral horse need to go. Either by gun or by truck and trailer to good homes but they need to go. I for one think we should drop them all off at the Wild Horse Guy out by olds house let him deal with them.

All stray horses come under the "Stray Animal Act of Alberta". Wild or feral horses are included in this Act (law). It is against the law to shoot, kill or harass a "stray animal". Period. The RCMP or Brand Inspectors are the only people allowed to deal with them or under their direct authority. And No I am not part of Bob`s "Huggy-Kissy" group.

[yukon12]

That is easy - Careless use of a firearm charges steam from the fact they are alleged to have shot the horse from the side of the road. Horse was never shot charges will not stay. Using a firearm while on probation is the same thing they say that one of the acussed used a firearm when he shot the horse allegedly on the road and he had a probation order not to use firearms. Never happen so those charges are easy to explain.

When cops arrest people for weak cases they oftern try and a pile a bunch of charges on to make guys want to cut a deal. It is easy to charge someone hard to convict them.

There are four wintess that came upon the horse that had fallen on the road off the hill right by mountain aire lodge. The horse was trying to give birth to a colt. The witness tried to help the colt and took pictures of the horse which the acused lawyers now have that show no evidince of the horse being shot and the four wintess confirm that. Nixon and his group arrived on the scene after these four and moved the horse to make the road clear. Fish and Wildlife does not come out and move horses so locals have to.

The RCMP do not even know what day this was on and have only pulled a skelton out of the woods with no ballistic evidince and a crack head who says the horse was shot.

Once the RCMP who have not discloused a stick of evidince does then the defence gets there turn and the charges associated with the horse will be dropped. Add to that the fact that know one owns the horses and lawyers think that charged does not exist there will never be a conviction on the wild horses.

The other charges that are against Nixon are bs as well and will not hold up. Again the RCMP has still refused to disclouse evidince on that as well and have told Nixon if he pleads guilty to the bs horse charge then they will drop them.

The alleged assault - Nixon is acused of assaulting a witness. Four other witness that were at the scene have provided signed statments that say the assault never took place. There is no witness for the person that says they were assaulted and no physical evidince as it suposably took place four months before Nixon was arrested. So that charge is with out a doubt not going to hold up and has only been put forward to make Nixon look bad and as levarge against him.

The obstruction charge is because Nixon advised his co acussed to lawyer up and not talk to the police anymore. He paid for their lawyers so the cops tried to pull something out of thin air.

Lastly threating a fish a wildlife officer. that entire episode is on tape from both the fish and wildlife officer cameras and the mountain aire lodge cameras and nixon does and he will admit swear at the officer and tell him to get of the mountian aire lodge property but that is a far cry from threating.

There is a big differnce between charged with something and convicted of something.

So ask yourself why the RCMP will not disclouse there evidince.

Either way the horses are not owned by someone so the charges will not stick even if they did shoot them and then that will prove once and for all that the horses are not protected and then you all can say good bye to them. As all the locals who hate them and there are lots that hate them will shoot them all.

They deserve their day in court and until then they are not guilty to proven guilty. Unless you beleive in convicting a man just because the cops say something about him. If that is the case give your head a shake.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Can someone please explain where feral reserve dogs and gophers fit into the whole scheme? I have a trip planned and I want to be on the right side of the law.

[yukon12]

Originally Posted by guywiththemule

All stray horses come under the "Stray Animal Act of Alberta". Wild or feral horses are included in this Act (law). It is against the law to shoot, kill or harass a "stray animal". Period. The RCMP or Brand Inspectors are the only people allowed to deal with them or under their direct authority. And No I am not part of Bob`s "Huggy-Kissy" group.

That law has never been tested in court. That law only applies in canada to a animal that is owned by someone and has become stray. No one onwns the feral horses. Lawyers say and many law enforcment people including fish and wild life says charge does not exist.

If you went by that law anyone who has shoot a feral pig should turn themselves in.

Does not matter horse was never shot and if they can just pull out a year old skelton and say some shot without physical evidince that is very scary.

[yukon12]

Originally Posted by guywiththemule

All stray horses come under the "Stray Animal Act of Alberta". Wild or feral horses are included in this Act (law). It is against the law to shoot, kill or harass a "stray animal". Period. The RCMP or Brand Inspectors are the only people allowed to deal with them or under their direct authority. And No I am not part of Bob`s "Huggy-Kissy" group.

Also the accused are not charged under the alberta stray act. They are charged under section 444 of the criminal code which applies only to privately owned animals. No one in canada has ever been convicted under this law unless teh crown could show ownership.

If the Alberta goverment claims ownership of the animals then they open themselves up to law suites from locals for damages unless they declare them wildlife and put them under the wildlife act.

[Grizzly Adams]

These guys were supposed to make a court appearance March 1, but I never saw anything in the paper. Anybody know what happened?
Grizz

[Albertadiver]

Well, they are innocent until proven guilty. I would assume they wouldn't bother charging them unless they felt that that they had a decent case. I guess we'll see what the deal is as the court case unfolds.