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03-06-2017, 08:40 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,412
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This thread is giving me a headache.
It is full of incorrect information in just about every post.
This reveals an alarming truth, outfitters, guides and resident hunters generally have no clue about the Outfitter Allocation and Policy.
This is a great fault that lies on the shoulders of the Gov, APOS and the resident stakeholder groups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
Blaming outfitters for non-resident hunting is like blaming natives for year round hunting, it's not their fault, it's the governments.
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No Kurt, Outfitters are fully to blame (but not alone in responsibility) for the current situation.
They are the ones lobbying and threatening to sue for what they want.
They are the ones resisting change to the system.
"Super secret" level meeting are being held to review and update the Outfitter Policy and Allocation agreement. Actually, these have been going on for the last several years.... with absolutely NO progress, just stonewalling and suppression of the Public consultation process.
Oh, and a hostile takeover of the APOS head office. Lol.... nice job.
Deer Hunter had it right.
A Deer Allocation is worth $130.
Go ahead and pay 4-20K, but that doesn't mean you will ever recoup the balance when the gov orders an return of these privileges.
Buy your bridges.
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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03-06-2017, 08:46 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiway mike
Around 390 allocations currently for sale or lease in alberta.
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And I hear that Walmart is interested in buying them all.
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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03-06-2017, 08:46 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
This thread is giving me a headache.
It is full of incorrect information in just about every post.
This reveals an alarming truth, outfitters, guides and resident hunters generally have no clue about the Outfitter Allocation and Policy.
This is a great fault that lies on the shoulders of the Gov, APOS and the resident stakeholder groups.
No Kurt, Outfitters are fully to blame (but not alone in responsibility) for the current situation.
They are the ones lobbying and threatening to sue for what they want.
They are the ones resisting change to the system.
"Super secret" level meeting are being held to review and update the Outfitter Policy and Allocation agreement. Actually, these have been going on for the last several years.... with absolutely NO progress, just stonewalling and suppression of the Public consultation process.
Oh, and a hostile takeover of the APOS head office. Lol.... nice job.
Deer Hunter had it right.
A Deer Allocation is worth $130.
Go ahead and pay 4-20K, but that doesn't mean you will ever recoup the balance when the gov orders an return of these privileges.
Buy your bridges.
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Well it's good to know the outfitters are in charge of our fish and wildlife, maybe we can talk to them about sustinence hunting too....
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03-06-2017, 08:49 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
Well it's good to know the outfitters are in charge of our fish and wildlife, maybe we can talk to them about sustinence hunting too....
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Start with that Sask kid and his Outfitted Subsistence Bighorn hunts.
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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03-06-2017, 09:08 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Start with that Sask kid and his Outfitted Subsistence Bighorn hunts.
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What ???
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03-06-2017, 09:12 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Start with that Sask kid and his Outfitted Subsistence Bighorn hunts.
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I have absolutely no doubt the outfitters are lobbying to keep their allocations, it's their source of income. When the borders were shut down because of bse it was the farmers who lobbied... go figure. In both cases they are not the ones who make the decisions though. You can't fault them for wanting to protect their income.
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03-06-2017, 09:17 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Deer Hunter had it right.
A Deer Allocation is worth $130.
Go ahead and pay 4-20K, but that doesn't mean you will ever recoup the balance when the gov orders an return of these privileges.
Buy your bridges.
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The industry is not going anywhere. People have been crying and whining about Outfitters for the last 50 years, and yet, here we are.
The industry brings in foreign money to our economy, an economy that isn't doing the best right now I might add. Like I said earlier, just because you don't make a living off it doesn't mean others that do aren't just as important. I'm sure I can find somebody that would like to eliminate every one of the industries you guys work in, but it doesn't make it right.
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03-06-2017, 09:20 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
I have absolutely no doubt the outfitters are lobbying to keep their allocations, it's their source of income. When the borders were shut down because of bse it was the farmers who lobbied... go figure. In both cases they are not the ones who make the decisions though. You can't fault them for wanting to protect their income.
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Sure, I don't fault those who fight for what they want, but that doesn't grant them immunity from being responsible for the outcome.
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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03-06-2017, 09:27 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel
The industry is not going anywhere. People have been crying and whining about Outfitters for the last 50 years, and yet, here we are.
The industry brings in foreign money to our economy, an economy that isn't doing the best right now I might add. Like I said earlier, just because you don't make a living off it doesn't mean others that do aren't just as important. I'm sure I can find somebody that would like to eliminate every one of the industries you guys work in, but it doesn't make it right.
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There you go off the deep end again, cry wolf.
I never stated any desire to end Outfitting or guiding, for residents or non-residents. So it is clear, I am in favour of both. There is room for Outfitters/guides and I am a Proponent of maintaining non-resident access to hunting big game, even when and where the species is on a draw for residents.
My comments were in relation to Outfitter Allocations, Big Game allocations to be specific. The Outfitting industry could carry on just fine, even grow, without having a licence specific allocation.
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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03-06-2017, 09:30 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
My comments were in relation to Outfitter Allocations, Big Game allocations to be specific. The Outfitting industry could carry on just fine, even grow, without having a licence specific allocation.
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Oh ya. And how would that work ?
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03-06-2017, 09:46 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel
Oh ya. And how would that work ?
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If only there was an example of a jurisdiction that works this way....
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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03-06-2017, 11:32 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
If only there was an example of a jurisdiction that works this way....
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Go ahead ! Show me where this works ?
And don't use the states that have land owner tags and Indian reservations to make up the bulk of their business, because we have neither here.
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03-06-2017, 03:37 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Leslieville
Posts: 2,616
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The only guy I personally know who has bought allocations paid about $5000 for his WT and MD tags in the Rocky Mountain House Area. I don't think he has sold a hunt in the last two years. It ain't what it used to be.
My friend from Texas that used to come to Alberta every year for white tails now goes to the Yukon every third year and gets to pull the trigger more often for the same amount of dollars and a much higher quality hunt (costs and trigger pulls averaged over a 9 year period).
I am 100% in favour of non-resident hunting but not as it currently exists. Put all of the non-resident tags on draw. Once you draw a tag you find an outfitter. That way the bios can adjust the tag numbers as needed without feeling as though they need to compensate the outfitters. It will also allow the outfitters that offer a good hunt to rise to the top.
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We talk so much about leaving a better planet to our kids, that we forget to leave better kids to our planet.
Gerry Burnie
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03-06-2017, 04:19 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC
I am 100% in favour of non-resident hunting but not as it currently exists. Put all of the non-resident tags on draw. Once you draw a tag you find an outfitter. That way the bios can adjust the tag numbers as needed without feeling as though they need to compensate the outfitters. It will also allow the outfitters that offer a good hunt to rise to the top.
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So would like the non residents to go in the regular draw or would you still like the non residents to be separate ?
I'm guessing you realize whether an outfitter sells four mule deer hunts through our allocation process or the non residents draw 4 mule deee tags then book, there's still 4 non residents hunting right ?
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03-06-2017, 04:26 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Stuck between wmu 110, 302 & 305
Posts: 1,024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC
The only guy I personally know who has bought allocations paid about $5000 for his WT and MD tags in the Rocky Mountain House Area. I don't think he has sold a hunt in the last two years. It ain't what it used to be.
My friend from Texas that used to come to Alberta every year for white tails now goes to the Yukon every third year and gets to pull the trigger more often for the same amount of dollars and a much higher quality hunt (costs and trigger pulls averaged over a 9 year period).
I am 100% in favour of non-resident hunting but not as it currently exists. Put all of the non-resident tags on draw. Once you draw a tag you find an outfitter. That way the bios can adjust the tag numbers as needed without feeling as though they need to compensate the outfitters. It will also allow the outfitters that offer a good hunt to rise to the top.
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Amen!!
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03-06-2017, 05:23 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: In a house
Posts: 7,770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel
So would like the non residents to go in the regular draw or would you still like the non residents to be separate ?
I'm guessing you realize whether an outfitter sells four mule deer hunts through our allocation process or the non residents draw 4 mule deee tags then book, there's still 4 non residents hunting right ?
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Ya i am not sure why he is wanting it this way. It does not change the fact the same number of deer will be shot. it will not change the number of years it takes him to get a draw and people will still continue to have an issue....
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03-06-2017, 05:30 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nube
Ya i am not sure why he is wanting it this way. It does not change the fact the same number of deer will be shot. it will not change the number of years it takes him to get a draw and people will still continue to have an issue....
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Bingo !!!
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03-06-2017, 05:34 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Stuck between wmu 110, 302 & 305
Posts: 1,024
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Let me help you guys.
Instead of getting 90% of the deer tags in a zone, you would only get 10% of the tags.... Alot less deer would be shot by outfitters.
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03-06-2017, 05:39 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver lab
Let me help you guys.
Residents get 90% of the deer tags in a zone, you would only get 10% of the tags.... Alot less deer are shot by outfitters.
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There, I fixed it for you !!!
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03-06-2017, 05:40 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Stuck between wmu 110, 302 & 305
Posts: 1,024
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Dream on.
Lol! Thanks.
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03-06-2017, 05:41 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,158
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10% is excessive. Maybe 5% based on increasing resident demand. Maybe none.
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03-06-2017, 05:48 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: My House
Posts: 13,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel
So would like the non residents to go in the regular draw or would you still like the non residents to be separate ?
I'm guessing you realize whether an outfitter sells four mule deer hunts through our allocation process or the non residents draw 4 mule deee tags then book, there's still 4 non residents hunting right ?
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Priority The Way It Should Be
1 - RESIDENTS (we own the dang animals)
2 - Non-Resident Canadians (neighbours deserve second shot)
3 - Non-Resident Aliens (bottom of barrel / never get a tag until Albertans are looked after)
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03-06-2017, 05:48 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 46,156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
10% is excessive. Maybe 5% based on increasing resident demand. Maybe none.
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It was only around five or six years ago that outfitters allocations made up 40% of all pronghorn tags issued for the entire province.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-06-2017, 05:49 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: My House
Posts: 13,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
It was only around five or six years ago that outfitters allocations made up 40% of all pronghorn tags issued for the entire province.
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Exactly.
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03-06-2017, 05:52 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 46,156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sns2
Priority The Way It Should Be
1 - RESIDENTS (we own the dang animals)
2 - Non-Resident Canadians (neighbours deserve second shot)
3 - Non-Resident Aliens (bottom of barrel)
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Given that it's the taxpayers that pay the bills to manage the game populations in this province, including the salaries for the entire AEP department; the residents should definitely be the first priority.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-06-2017, 05:53 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sns2
(we own the dang animals)
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No you don't. The crown does, just like oil and gas, forestry, and minerals.
And it's all for sale !
Because after all we need industry
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03-06-2017, 05:56 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
It was only around five or six years ago that outfitters allocations made up 40% of all pronghorn tags issued for the entire province.
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Yes, you are correct
Over the last 30 years there have been at least 5-10 instances where the numbers have been out of whack in certain WMUs for certain species.
Nobody has ever denied that
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03-06-2017, 06:05 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 46,156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel
Yes, you are correct
Over the last 30 years there have been at least 5-10 instances where the numbers have been out of whack in certain WMUs for certain species.
Nobody has ever denied that
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That is 5 or 10 times that it should not have happened. If the pronghorn population was really that low, the season ahould have been suspended for everyone. The population should be the number one priority, rather than someone making money off of the population .
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-06-2017, 06:35 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
That is 5 or 10 times that it should not have happened. If the pronghorn population was really that low, the season ahould have been suspended for everyone. The population should be the number one priority, rather than someone making money off of the population .
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That's right, it should be adjusted as soon as possible.
And from what I remember the outfitters voluntarily stopped using the allocations after that first season.
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03-06-2017, 06:43 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 132
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Iv never read a thread with this much false information. Wow
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