View Poll Results: A BULLET TO PASS THROUGH OR NOT IS BEST
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PASS THROUGH IS BEST
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86 |
60.14% |
NON-PASS THROUGH IS BEST
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57 |
39.86% |
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08-28-2012, 11:35 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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Discussions such as this go so much smoother without a peanut gallery piping in with attacks about peoples knowledge and accusations of someone making a poor shot
LC
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08-29-2012, 02:40 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,910
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You know the longer I watch this forum the less I am going to contribute. If I have to worry about getting personally attacked every time I voice my opinion it's a waste of my time. I get enough of that from my wife I don't have to impress you I am already married. Besides none of you are my type. I am very dissapionted especially with two men that are public figures in our hunting community. The same guys that are suppose to be representing us and be are voice are fighting with other users like eight year olds in the play ground. This forum is not enlightening it's frustrating and I think I've had enough. You all should be ashamed of your behavior!
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As long as there is lead in the air there is always hope.
Last edited by BuckCuller; 08-29-2012 at 02:58 AM.
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08-29-2012, 02:46 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,910
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By the way the law is energy can not be created or destroyed it can only change form and energy at rest is called potential energy. I'm probably the only guy on here that doesn't think he is better than the next guy. I'm done with this because this seems to be just another anti hunters tool to pit us against each other.
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As long as there is lead in the air there is always hope.
Last edited by BuckCuller; 08-29-2012 at 03:04 AM.
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08-29-2012, 05:50 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Manitoulin Island, Ontario
Posts: 426
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Reading through this and trying to sort out the garbage has taken some time but I think LC's fathers thoughts have some merit. The diaphragm will definitely change position during the breathing process. I also believe the bullet could very well have sucked some stomach contents into the chest cavity. Just watching a bullet test in ballistic gel and you see the large void open up in the center of the gel, this has to create a vacuum, so if the gut/stomach was ruptured by the temporary wound channel at the same time the diaphragm was it could very well have happened as his father thought.
Also the bullet just carries the energy, and energy transfer does do permanent damage outside of the actual bullet path. I have shot animals and had a caliber diameter entrance wound and 2x caliber exit wound and the 1/2 the lungs where soup, so in these instances I would say the permanent wound channel far exceeded the 2x caliber expanded bullet so energy transfer must have played a part in the permanent wound channel.
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08-29-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortaction
Also the bullet just carries the energy, and energy transfer does do permanent damage outside of the actual bullet path. I have shot animals and had a caliber diameter entrance wound and 2x caliber exit wound and the 1/2 the lungs where soup, so in these instances I would say the permanent wound channel far exceeded the 2x caliber expanded bullet so energy transfer must have played a part in the permanent wound channel.
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Of course the permanent wound channel is larger than the expanded bullet and you are very correct that it is much larger at the beginning of the wound tract where the projectile was travelling at higher velocity. This is the result of hydraulic shock. The bullet moving through tissue displaces the tissue and more importantly the fliud in that tissue and actually sends it outward from the bullets path much like when you throw a rock in a lake. The faster the bullet is moving and the more rapidly the tissue and liquid is displaced, the greater the distance that damage is done away from the bullet. Basically, the tissue cannot contain the fluid. Some is permanent damage/permanent wound channel and some is temporary/temporary wound channel. Both channels vary in size frome larger in diameter upon impact to smaller as the bullet slows.
Energy definitly played a role in that it kept the bullet moving forward and pushing this hydraulic wave outward from it. It allowed the bullet to do its work.
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08-29-2012, 11:14 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 677
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Well I think I'll Wade into this mucky thread.
Me, I like full penetration, two holes. I don't buy into the energy transfer arguement. Animals can absorb huge amounts of energy. They get hit buy cars, and walk away. I know it's not damaging the pulmonary system, but I think it is still relivent, since a collision with a car transfers many more times the energy of a bullet.
As for organs moving while breathing, I don't buy it. I've heard guys say, "I hit him proper, but he must have been breathing out, and I got him in the dead spot between the top of the lungs, and the spine." Thats a poor excuse for a poor shot. I know the diaphram moves laterly, but the point where it is onnected to the animal doesn't move. You either shoot infront of it, or behind it. Good shot, or bad.
I believe in an exit hole, with a large wound channel. One of the main reasons I shoot a 338 win mag is because it makes a bigger hole than a 300 win mag. I currently use 225 gr, barnes, but I am thinking of stepping down to a lighter grain, to shoot faster and flatter. Barnes, or any other monolithic, has excellent wieght retention. My thinking is a bullet that starts, and exits at the same weight, will penetrate, and kill better, than a heavier bullet that os designed to lose half it's weight in the first third of an animal.
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The shy man goes hungry.
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08-29-2012, 11:16 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
One that expands rapidly upon impact to about 2x its original size and retains a very high percentage of weight. And is accurate of course. There are numerous bullets that fit into this category.
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And with the list I provided , Barnes would be that bullet , :-)
__________________
My friend thinks he is smart, he said that onions are the only food to make you cry , so I threw a coconut at his face !!!!
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. (Mark twain)
if you don't have the time to do it right now,
how you gonna find time to do it right later !!!!!
(truck window)
quote
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08-29-2012, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PistonBroke
And with the list I provided , Barnes would be that bullet , :-)
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Barnes is actually not a bullet...they are bullet manufacturer. No doubt some of their bullets fall into that category....others don't.
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08-29-2012, 02:11 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckCuller
You know the longer I watch this forum the less I am going to contribute. If I have to worry about getting personally attacked every time I voice my opinion it's a waste of my time. I get enough of that from my wife I don't have to impress you I am already married. Besides none of you are my type. I am very dissapionted especially with two men that are public figures in our hunting community. The same guys that are suppose to be representing us and be are voice are fighting with other users like eight year olds in the play ground. This forum is not enlightening it's frustrating and I think I've had enough. You all should be ashamed of your behavior!
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X2 huge
__________________
My friend thinks he is smart, he said that onions are the only food to make you cry , so I threw a coconut at his face !!!!
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. (Mark twain)
if you don't have the time to do it right now,
how you gonna find time to do it right later !!!!!
(truck window)
quote
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08-29-2012, 02:13 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
Barnes is actually not a bullet...they are bullet manufacturer. No doubt some of their bullets fall into that category....others don't.
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Lmao, wow some peoples kids , Barnes bullets , sorry , happy now sir...:-)
__________________
My friend thinks he is smart, he said that onions are the only food to make you cry , so I threw a coconut at his face !!!!
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. (Mark twain)
if you don't have the time to do it right now,
how you gonna find time to do it right later !!!!!
(truck window)
quote
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08-29-2012, 02:17 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditch donkey
Well I think I'll Wade into this mucky thread.
Me, I like full penetration, two holes. I don't buy into the energy transfer arguement. Animals can absorb huge amounts of energy. They get hit buy cars, and walk away. I know it's not damaging the pulmonary system, but I think it is still relivent, since a collision with a car transfers many more times the energy of a bullet.
As for organs moving while breathing, I don't buy it. I've heard guys say, "I hit him proper, but he must have been breathing out, and I got him in the dead spot between the top of the lungs, and the spine." Thats a poor excuse for a poor shot. I know the diaphram moves laterly, but the point where it is onnected to the animal doesn't move. You either shoot infront of it, or behind it. Good shot, or bad.
I believe in an exit hole, with a large wound channel. One of the main reasons I shoot a 338 win mag is because it makes a bigger hole than a 300 win mag. I currently use 225 gr, barnes, but I am thinking of stepping down to a lighter grain, to shoot faster and flatter. Barnes, or any other monolithic, has excellent wieght retention. My thinking is a bullet that starts, and exits at the same weight, will penetrate, and kill better, than a heavier bullet that os designed to lose half it's weight in the first third of an animal.
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I must agree with you on that one sir , this is why in my opinion
And many many others Barnes is the best hunting bullet going
Bar none in our opinions.
__________________
My friend thinks he is smart, he said that onions are the only food to make you cry , so I threw a coconut at his face !!!!
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. (Mark twain)
if you don't have the time to do it right now,
how you gonna find time to do it right later !!!!!
(truck window)
quote
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08-29-2012, 02:18 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Discussions such as this go so much smoother without a peanut gallery piping in with attacks about peoples knowledge and accusations of someone making a poor shot
LC
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Big x2 LC
__________________
My friend thinks he is smart, he said that onions are the only food to make you cry , so I threw a coconut at his face !!!!
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. (Mark twain)
if you don't have the time to do it right now,
how you gonna find time to do it right later !!!!!
(truck window)
quote
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08-29-2012, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PistonBroke
Lmao, wow some peoples kids , Barnes bullets , sorry , happy now sir...:-)
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Obviously you missed my point. Barnes Bullets is a manufacturer...they manufactures numerous types of bullets that serve a wide variety of purposes so unless you specify which Barness Bullet you are talking about it really means nothing. Several of their bullet models would fit into the criteria you quoted me on and many Barnes Bullets would not. Rather than being rude, you should likely listen to some of the good advice people are trying to offer you on here. You would learn something. You are correct...wow some people's kids
Last edited by sheephunter; 08-29-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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08-29-2012, 03:03 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
Obviously you missed my point. Barnes Bullets is a manufacturer...they manufactures numerous types of bullets that serve a wide variety of purposes so unless you specify which Barness Bullet you are talking about it really means nothing. Several of their bullet models would fit into the criteria you quoted me on and many Barnes Bullets would not. Rather than being rude, you should likely listen to some of the good advice people are trying to offer you on here. You would learn something. You are correct...wow some people's kids
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I did not mean to come across as rude , I'm sorry , but if you
Pat attention to what Barnes bullet is listed
You would know that's the one Iam / we are
Talking about (TSX) unless other wise noted . Thank you
__________________
My friend thinks he is smart, he said that onions are the only food to make you cry , so I threw a coconut at his face !!!!
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. (Mark twain)
if you don't have the time to do it right now,
how you gonna find time to do it right later !!!!!
(truck window)
quote
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08-29-2012, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PistonBroke
I did not mean to come across as rude , I'm sorry , but if you
Pat attention to what Barnes bullet is listed
You would know that's the one Iam / we are
Talking about (TSX) unless other wise noted . Thank you
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Some things don't go unsaid....but yes, the TSX would fall into that category of a bullet that expands well and retains weight well.
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08-29-2012, 03:11 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
Some things don't go unsaid....but yes, the TSX would fall into that category of a bullet that expands well and retains weight well.
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The ttsx and TSX are IMO the BEST hunting bullet out there
__________________
My friend thinks he is smart, he said that onions are the only food to make you cry , so I threw a coconut at his face !!!!
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. (Mark twain)
if you don't have the time to do it right now,
how you gonna find time to do it right later !!!!!
(truck window)
quote
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08-29-2012, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PistonBroke
The ttsx and TSX are IMO the BEST hunting bullet out there
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They are good for sure...I personally think the newer generation of mono metals offer a couple advantages but both will do the job for sure. I've killed many animals with the TSX.
Kind of shocking that you are TSX fan when you say you like a bullet that doesn't pass through...........I like them because they do.
Last edited by sheephunter; 08-29-2012 at 03:21 PM.
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08-29-2012, 04:34 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Discussions such as this go so much smoother without a peanut gallery piping in with attacks about peoples knowledge and accusations of someone making a poor shot
LC
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Me too buddy. I hate it when the peanut gallery chimes in.
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08-29-2012, 05:01 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fox Creek
Posts: 3,419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PistonBroke
Lmao, good one I'm not saying much for a reason
I wanna see what others think , I never made this
Poll for me , I did it for YOU guys
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I doubt it!
But pass through for sure. Using a bullet that won't give you a pass through is refusing a secondary bleed out. It's like having 2 wounds and bandaging the (sometimes much) larger of the 2.
Doesn't matter how much energy you think you are wasting. If you ponder it a while you realize that archer's are doing the same thing (more or less, with less surrounding tissue destruction, and temporary wound channel), just on the virtue of cutting nice big bleeding holes. And with about 1/30 of the ballistic energy. (Roughly, on average)
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08-29-2012, 05:06 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 46,149
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Quote:
I never made this
Poll for me , I did it for YOU guys
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Really? And here I assumed that you started the poll hoping that the majority would agree with you.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
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08-29-2012, 05:14 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
Really? And here I assumed that you started the poll hoping that the majority would agree with you.
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X2!
Me, I've a quandry. I like two holes for lots of leaking, but I have a real cool collection of recovered bullest that I love adding too! LOL
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08-29-2012, 05:31 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 209x50
X2!
Me, I've a quandry. I like two holes for lots of leaking, but I have a real cool collection of recovered bullest that I love adding too! LOL
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So rich what is your fav bullet? The 130 bergers that killed your praire elk looked like theu worked great? was tht one shot? Also was it a pass through?
As for Barnes bullets. I am glad so many people like them as I have a way easier time finding my berger bullets. BIG HOLES ARE BETTER THAN PIN HOLES. Lol.
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08-29-2012, 05:36 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
They are good for sure...I personally think the newer generation of mono metals offer a couple advantages but both will do the job for sure. I've killed many animals with the TSX.
Kind of shocking that you are TSX fan when you say you like a bullet that doesn't pass through...........I like them because they do.
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ya it a lil funny hey, but i love them even more when the don't pass through
__________________
My friend thinks he is smart, he said that onions are the only food to make you cry , so I threw a coconut at his face !!!!
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. (Mark twain)
if you don't have the time to do it right now,
how you gonna find time to do it right later !!!!!
(truck window)
quote
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08-29-2012, 05:38 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
Really? And here I assumed that you started the poll hoping that the majority would agree with you.
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not hoping for that, im hoping i can see a bunch of diff opinions , like i have, so stay tuned for more polls AO, CHEERS
__________________
My friend thinks he is smart, he said that onions are the only food to make you cry , so I threw a coconut at his face !!!!
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. (Mark twain)
if you don't have the time to do it right now,
how you gonna find time to do it right later !!!!!
(truck window)
quote
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08-29-2012, 05:42 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 16,270
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I can hardly wait.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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08-29-2012, 05:44 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tactical lever
i doubt it!
But pass through for sure. Using a bullet that won't give you a pass through is refusing a secondary bleed out. It's like having 2 wounds and bandaging the (sometimes much) larger of the 2.
Doesn't matter how much energy you think you are wasting. If you ponder it a while you realize that archer's are doing the same thing (more or less, with less surrounding tissue destruction, and temporary wound channel), just on the virtue of cutting nice big bleeding holes. And with about 1/30 of the ballistic energy. (roughly, on average)
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don't doubt it sir, i did it for you guys, (ao) members and myself included of course
__________________
My friend thinks he is smart, he said that onions are the only food to make you cry , so I threw a coconut at his face !!!!
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. (Mark twain)
if you don't have the time to do it right now,
how you gonna find time to do it right later !!!!!
(truck window)
quote
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08-29-2012, 05:45 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
i can hardly wait.
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for...???
__________________
My friend thinks he is smart, he said that onions are the only food to make you cry , so I threw a coconut at his face !!!!
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. (Mark twain)
if you don't have the time to do it right now,
how you gonna find time to do it right later !!!!!
(truck window)
quote
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08-29-2012, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PistonBroke
ya it a lil funny hey, but i love them even more when the don't pass through
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Have you had that happen often?
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08-29-2012, 05:46 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
I can hardly wait.
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Lol!
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08-29-2012, 05:52 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
have you had that happen often?
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this bull and buck were both shot with a barnes 140gr vortex factory load , the moose at 70yrds and the buck at a lil over 150 yrds and both bullets did not pass through, both were on far side hide
__________________
My friend thinks he is smart, he said that onions are the only food to make you cry , so I threw a coconut at his face !!!!
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. (Mark twain)
if you don't have the time to do it right now,
how you gonna find time to do it right later !!!!!
(truck window)
quote
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