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04-05-2018, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavYak
Fairly reliable source? Another climate change bashing blog?
Do yourself a favour and google greenland ice core data. You will quickly understand that
a) The data is from a single place on earth(and as you can see if you look outside your window temperature data from a single location does not give you a proper estimation of the global temperature).
b) That the temperatures were not measured, they were guessed/determined somehow using ice cores.
c) The methods used to get this data are part of reason that scientists know that increasing CO2 levels are tied to increasing global temperature changes...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ta-help-solve/
Please do not post more data unless you actually spend 2 minutes to research the validity of it first... The main reason people don't believe in climate change is because there are too many people like these guys posting false information for financial reasons... |
You just explained what the NDP are doing in Alberta and the Liberals in all of Canada.
Looper
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04-05-2018, 04:34 PM
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Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavYak
That has absolutely nothing to do with climate change. It is politics... As I have clarified multiple times, people need to be careful to not tie the 2 together.
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Seriously?
The whole climate change money grab is directly tied to politics and will drive its direction nationally and internationally for years to come with the redistribution of the money trough.
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04-05-2018, 05:02 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: At the lake
Posts: 2,525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaberTosser
Perhaps the worlds overpopulated nations should undertake population reduction programs until they're down to sustainable CO2 equilibriums?  |
Very good point. There are WAY too many people in the world and it seems that the lower the intelligence level the more kids they have.
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04-05-2018, 05:10 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavYak
Where does one buy a tinfoil hat?
Do you honestly believe that 4 different organizations from 3 different nations have all tampered with this data and in the same way to boot? Do you believe that these organizations joined forces to undermine their own countries by forcing them to implement climate change procedures?
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Are you saying that you believe that there is no concerted effort to increase taxes / redistribute wealth around the world? Because that is the only reason a carbon tax would be implemented. The realistic reductions of CO2 resulting from a carbon tax are negligible.
Quote:
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You shouldn't get involved in scientific discussions if you refuse to accept data from the worlds leading scientists that are among the only people on earth with access to the equipment required to analyze the topic at hand...
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This can be directed right back at you. There are leading scientists who have denounced the AGW movement.
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04-05-2018, 05:11 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott h
Very good point. There are WAY too many people in the world and it seems that the lower the intelligence level the more kids they have.
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04-05-2018, 05:19 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
Are you saying that you believe that there is no concerted effort to increase taxes / redistribute wealth around the world? Because that is the only reason a carbon tax would be implemented. The realistic reductions of CO2 resulting from a carbon tax are negligible.
This can be directed right back at you. There are leading scientists who have denounced the AGW movement.
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Globalists will be the death of us all.
LC
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04-05-2018, 05:28 PM
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Location: West Edmonton
Posts: 5,174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
Are you saying that you believe that there is no concerted effort to increase taxes / redistribute wealth around the world? Because that is the only reason a carbon tax would be implemented. The realistic reductions of CO2 resulting from a carbon tax are negligible.
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Um, the USA does not have carbon tax...
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04-05-2018, 05:40 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavYak
Um, the USA does not have carbon tax...
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Since when were we talking specifically the USA?
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04-05-2018, 06:36 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Strathcona County
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavYak
Fairly reliable source? Another climate change bashing blog?
Do yourself a favour and google greenland ice core data. I don't need to google it. I have the data and the studies right here in front of me. You will quickly understand that
a) The data is from a single place on earth(and as you can see if you look outside your window temperature data from a single location does not give you a proper estimation of the global temperature).
Yes, the ice core data is from a single place on earth. However, it is verified by duplicate studies and it is not air temperature data. You are referring to weather - which is not climate.
b) That the temperatures were not measured, they were guessed/determined somehow using ice cores.
Actually the temperatures were measured and are verified. You will have to research that for yourself.
c) The methods used to get this data are part of reason that scientists know that increasing CO2 levels are tied to increasing global temperature changes...
There are many factors that are involved in climate changed - one of the least being the level of CO2
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ta-help-solve/
Please do not post more data unless you actually spend 2 minutes to research the validity of it first... The main reason people don't believe in climate change is because there are too many people like these guys posting false information for financial reasons... |
I suggest you argue the validity of the data with the scientists who actually gathered and recorded it. And most people do believe in real climate change - just not alarmist CO2 based pseudo-science.
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04-05-2018, 06:49 PM
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Crazy talk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RavYak
Lets get one thing straight.
Canada is not implementing carbon taxes and being involved in other climate change topics in order to balance our CO2 effect. They are doing so to set an example and to get the other countries like China on board with global plans to reduce/control emissions.
We as a country are one of the few examples of a carbon negative country. That is not because we are trying harder then other countries to reduce our effects but because we have expanses of natural sinks and a small population.
Per capita we are actually one of the leading nations in CO2 production. We require far more electricity and heating then many other countries, most of our population lives well and can afford the luxuries in life, almost everyone uses vehicles, we drive farther then most other countries etc.
https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warmin...l#.WsZdWC7wbIU
That is why our government has said to the rest of the world yes we have been graciously gifted with our land but we too are going to join the rest of you in controlling CO2 production. Without us and some other similar nations doing the same then countries like China would have no incentive to agree to try and control their emissions.
What we as Canadians need to do is be critical of what our governments are doing with their efforts. We actually do a lot of good things regarding climate change, even our ridiculous carbon taxes are actually used to reduce emissions. Though some of the ways that it is doing so(for example paying to shut down coal plants) is questionable because of the issues it does create for us taxpayers.
This article covers a few of the way it is being used.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...lars-1.4028902 |
Let’s get one thing straight China or any other country in this world doesn’t give a crap if we tax ourselves into poverty. I’m sure they will gain a lot more business because our products are to expensive to produce and our world market share declines.
Climate change is real, it’s been changing since the planet earth has been around and it will not stop changing even if there were no people kind on this planet.
I know your a very well renowned scientist but you can not disagree that the ice caps have been melting since the ice age of the mammoth. And it doesn’t take a scientist to figure out the less ice there is to melt the higher the melt rate becomes, you can do this in your oun kitchen.
The planet was very tropical before the ice age there is a very strong history of a climate cycle on this planet that no scientist can dispute.
Further more this whole carbon footprint idea goes against logic as the highest recorded CO2 levels were at their highest level in ice core samples from the ice age.
Global warming/ climate change is an industry where people from the auto industry. Engineers, politicians and yes scientists all make enormous amounts of money by claiming that people are changing the global climate.
We may pollute the air we breath to where it has I’ll affect on the life bing creatures of this planet but we ourselves will never change the warming and cooling of the planet.
We are a very small part of this pollution and are the highest regulated industry on the planet. We are just shooting our selves in the foot destroying our economic sustainability by taxing ourselves to death and the country’s that would have the most effect do not care one way or the other what we do. Most likely they will just capitalize off of it.
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As long as there is lead in the air there is always hope. 
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04-05-2018, 06:58 PM
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Banned
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04-05-2018, 07:03 PM
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Location: West Edmonton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
Since when were we talking specifically the USA?
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Lol, I knew that would be your response...
1) I posted temperature data
2) You said data is invalid because it is made by NASA and NOAA
3) I asked why you think NASA and NOAA would make up data that shows increasing temperatures.
4) You said carbon tax...
Last I checked NASA and NOAA are US programs and the USA is one of the few developed nations to have not implemented a carbon tax...
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04-05-2018, 07:33 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gods Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavYak
Good to see? I would say it is disappointing to see...
Not surprising though. Most people haven't travelled and seen the disgusting mess humans are making to our planet, most of which has occurred in a very short period of time(we are talking decades). Go check out China, India, South East Asia and other parts of the world and try to tell me that our rampant pollution should be having no effect on the planet... We already know that natural events such as cloud cover, ash from volcanoes etc has an effect on the climate, how can anyone not realize that smog would have similar effects?
Yes we are having a far colder then normal winter/spring here in Alberta but this is a localized phenomenon, meanwhile the arctic has had one of its warmest winters in decades... Warm enough that some areas did not even freeze over this year. Ice that is literally thousands of years old is melting meaning the earth is warmer then it has been in thousands of years...
Sitting around with your head buried in the sand is not a good thing... Fighting climate reform is not a good thing... Some of these changes are likely natural changes but there is significant evidence to support that we are having an effect. How can you argue with information like this that shows a rapid change in the earths temperature over the past 50 years(a very short time period when talking about the earth)? Remember natural changes take hundreds and thousands of year to occur(unless there is something significant to trigger a change such as huge volcano eruption, earthquakes, meteor strike etc, none of which have occurred during this time period).
https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs...l-temperature/
The earth has been around for a long time and we know the earth undergoes significant climate changes naturally. It is possible that we are currently undergoing a period of natural change right now but it is also ridiculous to suggest that we are not having any effect. It is also extremely careless to ignore our effects and not try to minimize our traces.
I don't think anyone on here would disagree that man affects nature. That our forestry, development and destruction hasn't affected our hunting, fishing etc. How can any of you ignore that those same things do not also affect the world on a whole(especially considering we have some of the least impact on environment out of all the countries in the world).
To me arguing that man doesn't have any influence on climate change is like claiming the earth is flat. The amount of oxygen we consume and CO2 that we emit by breathing alone significantly affects the planet especially with our ever increasing population, let alone all the other effects we have with our waste and pollution. |
K,first off, do you really know how the world works, I mean really?
Then tell me this, oh wise one,who caused the “climate change” when the dinosaurs walked the earth?
Iffin yer so danged much more enlightened than the rest of us, please tell me everything!
What caused the last ice age, since yer the expert and all?
Humans can’t even predict the weather accurately, now yer gonna say you’ve got it all figured out, why the climate change happens?
Really, you think your that smart?
Cause went on google, and looked at stuff?
What is your professional background on this matter?
Are you a celebrity like niel young?
Is that what makes yer google lookin ability so much more superior to all of ours?
Ya fried yer brain on tour with niel?
Somebody who has the audacity to claim they know exactly how the world works, that’s you hey?
You took over Hawkins spot, did, ye?
You got some neck spewing these blatant inaccuracies on here, oh my!!!!!
Sorry everyone ruined yer come to Jesus moment on here........NOT!
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04-06-2018, 07:02 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill
K,first off, do you really know how the world works, I mean really?
Then tell me this, oh wise one,who caused the “climate change” when the dinosaurs walked the earth?
Iffin yer so danged much more enlightened than the rest of us, please tell me everything!
What caused the last ice age, since yer the expert and all?
Humans can’t even predict the weather accurately, now yer gonna say you’ve got it all figured out, why the climate change happens?
Really, you think your that smart?
Cause went on google, and looked at stuff?
What is your professional background on this matter?
Are you a celebrity like niel young?
Is that what makes yer google lookin ability so much more superior to all of ours?
Ya fried yer brain on tour with niel?
Somebody who has the audacity to claim they know exactly how the world works, that’s you hey?
You took over Hawkins spot, did, ye?
You got some neck spewing these blatant inaccuracies on here, oh my!!!!!
Sorry everyone ruined yer come to Jesus moment on here........NOT!
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Thanks Bill, i wouldn't have been able to be so polite...
It's like they flipped his switch on this week or something...
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04-06-2018, 04:14 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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How about everybody who believes in man made climate change pay carbon tax, the rest of us don't. Wonder how long before the believers change their tune?
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Some days you're a bullet; some days you're a gopher.
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04-06-2018, 06:10 PM
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So the people that believe can pay the people that don’t.
What’s going to happen if canada doesn’t tax carbon. Is the earth going to melt.
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04-06-2018, 06:20 PM
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Location: W5
Posts: 1,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
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hard to imagine 2/3 do lol
actually....i believe in climate change...been changing constantly for 2 billion years.
Man made CC not so much.
We probably...ok almost certainly contribute to CC but i highly doubt we have the impact that the doomsdayers preach,and most certainly not gonna make a fart in the winds worth of difference by taxing the most environmentally responsible country on Earth into poverty.
Carbon tax is is a leftard tax grab/cash cow.....period.
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The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited. 
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04-06-2018, 06:49 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Edmonton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5
hard to imagine 2/3 do lol
actually....i believe in climate change...been changing constantly for 2 billion years.
Man made CC not so much.
We probably...ok almost certainly contribute to CC but i highly doubt we have the impact that the doomsdayers preach,and most certainly not gonna make a fart in the winds worth of difference by taxing the most environmentally responsible country on Earth into poverty.
Carbon tax is is a leftard tax grab/cash cow.....period.
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Not hard to believe when 99.5 percent of all politicians believe in it.
BW
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04-06-2018, 08:21 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman
Not hard to believe when 99.5 percent of all politicians believe in it.
BW
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Politicians are all the same.They believe...tell you they believe whatever their party tells them to believe. It's their way of life.
Carbon tax, or whatever form of revenue gathering in the name of environmental "protection" is a thinly disguised alternative to increasing unpopular mainstream taxation to cover runaway government spending. We ALL know that, but liberal-minded do-gooders keep blindly yapping up the climate change agenda just to hear themselves sound like they want to be saviors of the earth. 
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Some days you're a bullet; some days you're a gopher.
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04-06-2018, 10:10 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhu22
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Biased reports. Okay then.
Has the Earth been warming since the last ice age? If so what percentage of warming today is natural?
What do you think has happened with sea level since 1800 when man supposedly caused a problem?
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It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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04-07-2018, 12:07 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
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Since 1806 here is what the ocean level has done.
Recorder on solid ground not subsiding limestone.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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04-07-2018, 12:16 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhu22
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Lol both running carbon capture plants to pump it into the earth to increase oil and gas production. Yup I would believe in it also.
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04-07-2018, 01:01 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Globalists will be the death of us all.
LC
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I keep hearing the term. What does it mean to you?
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04-07-2018, 03:37 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
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In the end, we're gonna conserve ourselves right off the planet. 
Grizz
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"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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04-07-2018, 03:58 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: West Edmonton
Posts: 5,174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill
K,first off, do you really know how the world works, I mean really?
Then tell me this, oh wise one,who caused the “climate change” when the dinosaurs walked the earth?
Iffin yer so danged much more enlightened than the rest of us, please tell me everything!
What caused the last ice age, since yer the expert and all?
Humans can’t even predict the weather accurately, now yer gonna say you’ve got it all figured out, why the climate change happens?
Really, you think your that smart?
Cause went on google, and looked at stuff?
What is your professional background on this matter?
Are you a celebrity like niel young?
Is that what makes yer google lookin ability so much more superior to all of ours?
Ya fried yer brain on tour with niel?
Somebody who has the audacity to claim they know exactly how the world works, that’s you hey?
You took over Hawkins spot, did, ye?
You got some neck spewing these blatant inaccuracies on here, oh my!!!!!
Sorry everyone ruined yer come to Jesus moment on here........NOT!
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Ah the typical AO argument. Resort to personal attacks because you don't have any logical points to make...
I am not sure what exactly caused the last ice age, to my knowledge no one knows for sure. On the other hand most of the scientific community has agreed with almost all my previous points in this thread. Man is having an effect, one of those main effects is our production of CO2 and that in order for the earth to continue its natural progressions we need to control our effects... We aren't trying to control natural climate change(yet anyways), we are just trying to ensure that we aren't making things significantly worse. Some of you may choose to place blind faith that mother nature will make up for our pollution but I would like to hope that most of our population realizes we are better off doing our part...
As for weather I consider our weather forecasts to be an absolutely amazing technological achievement. They don't get every single detail correct but how the heck can you expect someone to 100% accurately determine the future?? Do you even know how weather forecasts are made?
First of all they have to take into account numerous data including temperatures, wind, humidity, pressure, precipitation and more all across the world. This data is input into super computers with advanced computer programs that then determine what the forecast for the entire world... Then they take that data and determine the local forecasts, some of which get local factors applied. If you knew anything about computational fluid dynamics you would know solving even the simplest of CFD problems requires a ton of work, extreme computing power and experimentation to fine tune results. Not only do these extremely complicated and large scale calculations have to be done but they have to be done in limited time because people want weather forecast updates multiple times a day.
Not only have we been able to solve this complex problem but we actually do so quite accurately. We are capable of forecasting the temperatures often within a degree or two, we usually know if it is going to be calm or windy and what direction the wind is going to come from, if it is going to rain or snow, if there is a chance of a major storm, heck we have even figured out thing like wave height etc from this data. Our data for the next 2-3 days is usually quite accurate(to the point where they often correctly predict when periods of rain or wind changes are going to occur within a couple hours) and even our longer range 7-14 day data usually gives a person a pretty good idea of what kind of weather we are going to be in store for.
The organizations that create these highly accurate computer models are also the exact same organizations that are telling us that we humans are having an effect on our climate and weather. Considering their success in literally predicting future weather I think it is fairly safe to say they know a thing or two about how our climates and weather work.
If you think these forecasts are out to lunch you are welcome to start posting your own weather forecasts. I am sure they will be much more accurate...
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04-07-2018, 04:13 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: N. E. of High River
Posts: 4,985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
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The truth is the truth if you believe it or not. The truth does not change with the numbers that people believe or do not believe.
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04-07-2018, 08:12 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavYak
Ah the typical AO argument. Resort to personal attacks because you don't have any logical points to make...
I am not sure what exactly caused the last ice age, to my knowledge no one knows for sure. On the other hand most of the scientific community has agreed with almost all my previous points in this thread. Man is having an effect, one of those main effects is our production of CO2 and that in order for the earth to continue its natural progressions we need to control our effects... We aren't trying to control natural climate change(yet anyways), we are just trying to ensure that we aren't making things significantly worse. Some of you may choose to place blind faith that mother nature will make up for our pollution but I would like to hope that most of our population realizes we are better off doing our part...
As for weather I consider our weather forecasts to be an absolutely amazing technological achievement. They don't get every single detail correct but how the heck can you expect someone to 100% accurately determine the future?? Do you even know how weather forecasts are made?
First of all they have to take into account numerous data including temperatures, wind, humidity, pressure, precipitation and more all across the world. This data is input into super computers with advanced computer programs that then determine what the forecast for the entire world... Then they take that data and determine the local forecasts, some of which get local factors applied. If you knew anything about computational fluid dynamics you would know solving even the simplest of CFD problems requires a ton of work, extreme computing power and experimentation to fine tune results. Not only do these extremely complicated and large scale calculations have to be done but they have to be done in limited time because people want weather forecast updates multiple times a day.
Not only have we been able to solve this complex problem but we actually do so quite accurately. We are capable of forecasting the temperatures often within a degree or two, we usually know if it is going to be calm or windy and what direction the wind is going to come from, if it is going to rain or snow, if there is a chance of a major storm, heck we have even figured out thing like wave height etc from this data. Our data for the next 2-3 days is usually quite accurate(to the point where they often correctly predict when periods of rain or wind changes are going to occur within a couple hours) and even our longer range 7-14 day data usually gives a person a pretty good idea of what kind of weather we are going to be in store for.
The organizations that create these highly accurate computer models are also the exact same organizations that are telling us that we humans are having an effect on our climate and weather. Considering their success in literally predicting future weather I think it is fairly safe to say they know a thing or two about how our climates and weather work.
If you think these forecasts are out to lunch you are welcome to start posting your own weather forecasts. I am sure they will be much more accurate...
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I don't know what response would be more appropriate.
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04-07-2018, 09:00 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,010
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One thing that is very odd is I can find a whole list of things people are doing to increase the temp.
Where is the list of things people are doing to cool the planet.
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04-07-2018, 09:38 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West of the 5th
Posts: 954
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Like I said before, if you have never been to the high Arctic and experienced it first hand then you are basing your opinion on some "scientists" hypothesis. What you read on the internet is to be taken with a few grains of salt. Well maybe a lb of salt
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