Do you need premium bullets/ammo for hunting?

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by Salavee

I just think I do. Your factual remark on your post got me to re- thinking.

Shoot a moose or elk in the shoulder with a TTSX, GMX, Accubond, or Partition to name a few and then shoot one with a Nosler BT, core lokt, fed blue box, fed fusion and see what happens.

I would bet that the animal will die quicker and get better results with the former. Sure some animals will die with the latter, but would you go skin an animal with a sharp or dull knife?

[marky_mark]

A premium bullet give you reliable and consistent penetration and expansion

Others do not

Will they work, yes. But is it worth taking that chance

[Deer_Hunter]

I am quite committed to using lead-free bullets so I guess for that reason alone I have been using 'premium' bullets

I would say it is important to use something that performs well on your rifle and something that you have had success with in the field.

Do they open reliably?

Do the penetrate well?

Are they fragmenting or is retention reasonable?

For the number of times I shoot my hunting rig per year I just do not see significant cost savings using a more affordable option.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Jim Blake

The elk was at 175yd. and the moose 220yd. Both recovered in the hide on the opposite side of the entry.

This year she shot a cow moose this year at 240 and it was a pass through.

Edit: Both are factory ammo.

7-08 performance with a great bullet.

[scalerman]

I use Barnes bullets in my rifle. I am not sure if you would call that a premium bullet or not. It is the one that gives me the best groups out of my rifle. I call it "Bang-Flop". My suggestion is to find the bullet that shoots best out of your rifle and use that one. Shot placement is the most important aspect of the hunting scenario anyway. If you are confident that your shot is going to go where you have aimed it then life is good. Confidence is about 90% of the equation.

[Andrzej]

Non-premium bullets C&C





PREMIUM bullets



This one after frontal shot on WT Buck and 1-meter penetration.
30-06 150 gr Barnes TTSX 60 yards.

[Dick284]

What some folks call “Non premium” cup and core bullets.


From .280 REM @ 2780 FPS MV


Hornady BTSP 139gr. 7mm-08 @2700 FPS MV


Old school Winchester Silvertip .277”, 130gr @ 3000 FPS MV


.280AI, 150gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, 3000 fps MV, pass thru


.280 AI, 150 gr Nosler BallisticTip @ 3000 FPS MV, pass thru


7mm-08, 139 gr BTSP, 2700 FPS MV pass thru


Match the bullet to the game being hunted, but also to the cartridge they are being shot from.

[MountainTi]

A lot of recovered projectiles. It seems I rarely get one back.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

A lot of recovered projectiles. It seems I rarely get one back.

I agree.
I might get 15% recovery of any bullets I shoot at game, usually as a result of major bones being hit, or jaunty angles being taken at the game.

I like exit wounds personally, as it leads to twice the number of holes for blood to leak from, making tracking much easier(if required)

If all these controlled expansion bullets are recovered, I’d be somewhat inclined to call this a potential bullet failure, as Barnes used to advertise the double leaking hole as a benefit.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I agree.
I maybe get 15% recovery of any bullets I shoot at game, usually as a result of major bones being hit, or jaunty angles taken at the game.
I like exit wounds personally, as it leads to twice the number of holes for blood to leak from, making tracking much easier(if required)

If all these controlled expansion bullets are recovered, I’d be somewhat inclined to call this a potential bullet failure, as Barnes used to advertise the double leaking hole as a benefit.

I find the exit wound makes a way easier trail to follow. Like a garden hose spraying at times.
I honestly would say I get less than 15% back. For the most part it's always been a 180 partition going at a pretty high rate of speed though

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

I find the exit wound makes a way easier trail to follow. Like a garden hose spraying at times.
I honestly would say I get less than 15% back. For the most part it's always been a 180 partition going at a pretty high rate of speed though

See, you’ve done an excellent job IMO of matching the bullet to the cartridge with your combination.

Before the inter web and all of the so called experts(fan boys) getting on their soap boxes to expound their worldly views, we heard very little about bullet failures.

I’m of the opinion there are very few bullet failures, and more errors in judgement by hunters and shooters. At the end of the day if you want to drive a bullet outside of its engineered design criteria, and it fails to do what it’s designed to do, is it the bullets fault? No! The end result rests firmly on the shoulders of the person who failed to use the bullet within its design parameters.

Sure I run Barnes TSX’s and Nosler Partition’s in my .25/06, I even run Partition’s in my .280 AI for closer work, I ran bonded core bullets in my WSM’s when I owned them, I even used 120 TSX’s in the 7-08 when I owned it. Do you need bonded, partitioned or monolithic bullets in your run of the mill 30/06(180gr) 7-08(140gr), .308(165-180), 7x57, 30/30, .303 Brit, .35 REM, .358 Win, .35 Whalen? Not hardly, but it’s all the rage to run for the “ premiums”.

What makes a bullet a Premium bullet?

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Dick284

What makes a bullet a Premium bullet?

Performance

[Jim Blake]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

A lot of recovered projectiles. It seems I rarely get one back.

Sorry double post.

[Jim Blake]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

A lot of recovered projectiles. It seems I rarely get one back.

The two I posted were the only two in our 08's history. This would be over thirty animals. The rest were pass through's. We also don't shoot much past 200 yards. Includes elk, moose, black bear and deer. Again all factory ammo.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Performance

How do you define performance?

Is that relative to accuracy?(hunting vs. Target)

Or terminal performance?(penetration vs. “Energy dump”)

The terms premium, and performance are quite open to interpretation, you see.

This is where the whole discussion gets wonky, it’s very relative to the context and colloquial use of the terminology.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Dick284

How do you define performance?

Is that relative to accuracy?(hunting vs. Target)

Or terminal performance?(penetration vs. “Energy dump”)

The terms premium, and performance are quite open to interpretation, you see.

This is where the whole discussion gets wonky, it’s very relative to the context and colloquial use of the terminology.

Obviously it needs to shoot well out of the rifle it's matched with.
If it leaves an exit hole that leaves a trail a blind man can follow no matter where you hit it, or at the very least smashes thru a couple shoulders on something big and stops at the hide on the far side....to me that's premium performance. See what I did there?

[house21]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

If you haven't made a mistake you haven't been hunting very long.
Cheap insurance!

Agreed!

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

If you haven't made a mistake you haven't been hunting very long.
Cheap insurance!

Originally Posted by house21

Agreed!

Please explain how using premium bullets is insurance for making a mistake.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by huntwat

Please explain how using premium bullets is insurance for making a mistake.

example...7 STW pushing a 140 gr pill at 3300 or faster fps with a cup/core type bullet...thick boned mature bull moose...under 100 yards and through all the excitement you are to far forward and hit that shoulder blade...now the bullet is to explosive on impact...chances are it buggers off limping...would sooner have a Barnes X type bullet....smash through and more than likely take out the other shoulder too....just one example.

[bobtodrick]

I’ve spent pretty big bucks on my rifles, good glass, etc...I’m going to put the best rounds I can through it.
I don’t run regular gas in my Ferrari (at least not in my dreams 😄

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

example...7 STW pushing a 140 gr pill at 3300 or faster fps with a cup/core type bullet...thick boned mature bull moose...under 100 yards and through all the excitement you are to far forward and hit that shoulder blade...now the bullet is to explosive on impact...chances are it buggers off limping...would sooner have a Barnes X type bullet....smash through and more than likely take out the other shoulder too....just one example.

Better come up with a different scenario cause this one is way off.

Hit the shoulder blade and 99% of the time it'll go down like a ton of bricks.
And when it gets up again which it will, it'll take a freight train to stop it.

Don't matter what you hit it with, 30 cal c&c or solid .375 doing mach 2, the results will be the same.

I've seen it too many times. Remember, I used to be a big game guide.

Move your shot down to the shoulder joint and you might have an argument.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Better come up with a different scenario cause this one is way off.

Hit the shoulder blade and 99% of the time it'll go down like a ton of bricks.
And when it gets up again which it will, it'll take a freight train to stop it.

Don't matter what you hit it with, 30 cal c&c or solid .375 doing mach 2, the results will be the same.

I've seen it too many times. Remember, I used to be a big game guide.

Move your shot down to the shoulder joint and you might have an argument.

no argument Keg...just had/witnessed bad results on with the impact velocities on bone in this calibre so changed to 140 gr barnes x back in the day....now I know a fella who insists on punching shoulders out on all game animals he shoots and he too using high velocity rounds experienced the same explosive type impacts minimizing penetration using cup/core so went to the so called premium bullets as indicated by some in this thread...but to each there own as we all have personal preferences and I respect that.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

example...7 STW pushing a 140 gr pill at 3300 or faster fps with a cup/core type bullet...thick boned mature bull moose...under 100 yards and through all the excitement you are to far forward and hit that shoulder blade...now the bullet is to explosive on impact...chances are it buggers off limping...would sooner have a Barnes X type bullet....smash through and more than likely take out the other shoulder too....just one example.

What if you’re too far back?

2 scenarios have been mentioned as insurance so far.
1. The mistake of hitting a moose or elk in the shoulder. ( an accuracy issue)
2. Follow up shots at wounded game running away. ( again an accuracy issue)
With this one the hunter has already missed a standing shot. Now they expect to hit a moving target 🎯.

Go ahead and use premium bullets if that’s your choice. But they don’t insure against oopses.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by huntwat

What if you’re too far back?

too far back using any type bullet results in a wounded animal and a very sick feeling inside....hopefully you get a second chance to finish what you started.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

no argument Keg...just had/witnessed bad results on with the impact velocities on bone in this calibre so changed to 140 gr barnes x back in the day....now I know a fella who insists on punching shoulders out on all game animals he shoots and he too using high velocity rounds experienced the same explosive type impacts minimizing penetration using cup/core so went to the so called premium bullets as indicated by some in this thread...but to each there own as we all have personal preferences and I respect that.

Had you changed to 175 gr. pills at 2850 you wouldn't have "needed" to go to the "premium" pills.

Premium bullets are not about needs, but about choices and it is nice that they are available to increase the choices available to us to satisfy out wants.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Had you changed to 175 gr. pills at 2850 you wouldn't have "needed" to go to the "premium" pills.

Premium bullets are not about needs, but about choices and it is nice that they are available to increase the choices available to us to satisfy out wants.

Exactly...choices....I could have slowed the ol'girl down or put a heavier pill out but I ran the STW like she was meant to be from my perspective....hot...fast...and yes...sexy too
This was back when Layne Simpson developed the cartridge from the 8mm rem before it was commercialized....I was young but learnt some valuable lessons along the way....I do shoot cup/core....love Hornady but also run Barnes too...just depends on which cartridge I load for and the intended game but that being said if I didn't have the reloading availabilty and was the guy that bought across the counter, could afford it, don't shoot often other to check zero prior to a hunt I personally would pick up a box of cartridges with the so called premium bullets....just a personal choice.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by huntwat

Please explain how using premium bullets is insurance for making a mistake.

What part of it aren't you understanding?
A chunk of lead that holds together will smash thru far more bone and get to a place it needs to be than a junk bullet that blows up on impact

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

What part of it aren't you understanding?
A chunk of lead that holds together will smash thru far more bone and get to a place it needs to be than a junk bullet that blows up on impact

What part are you not understanding????
The question was do you need to use premium ammo to hunt. The short answer is NO.
There is only one instance that premium ammo out performs non- premium. That is through the big bones in the shoulder at close range.
And this is at close distances. A lot of premium ammo doesn’t perform as designed at slower speeds ( longer distances).
There is no perfect bullet for all scenarios.

[buckman]

Nosler partitions only when hunting for me. Will expand at lower and higher velocities. Tried and tested over many years.

My son shot a mature Bull Elk with a 150 grain from his .270 at 250 yds.

It was a front quartering shot. Hit the humerus(heaviest bone on an animal) below the right shoulder.

Shattered the bone and punched through lungs dropping him instantly. The bullet exited the Elk,that's performance.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by huntwat

What part are you not understanding????
The question was do you need to use premium ammo to hunt. The short answer is NO.
There is only one instance that premium ammo out performs non- premium. That is through the big bones in the shoulder at close range.
And this is at close distances. A lot of premium ammo doesn’t perform as designed at slower speeds ( longer distances).
There is no perfect bullet for all scenarios.

No, you asked how is a premium bullet insurance if a mistake is made. I explained it.

And no, "premium bullets" don't just pay on big bones. Many years ago I made the mistake of loading up some ballistic tips. Let's just say that mistake was never made again after what happened when hitting ribs on an otherwise killing shot on a good whitetail buck. After that first "should have killed it" shot, the next opportunities were less than ideal. Never again. I run quality bullets

Now I save inferior lead for paper and coyotes

For me a partition is the perfect bullet for all scenarios..I don't hunt with cartridges that are slow moving