Another Leaseholder Thread...

[hal53]

Originally Posted by killer18

ya... try and keep me off lease land.... you would be waisting your time.

do you actually hunt????.......

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by killer18

ya... try and keep me off lease land.... you would be waisting your time.

I think missed this resonse to Nait Haida by Sunsetrider2011.

[Quote] Did I touch a nerve Nait? Dont be getting your panties in a bunch. Its simple ask politely for access you will get it 9 times out of 10.
[ Quote]

This was in response to someone saying they can access lease land whenever they want IIRC, which is completely right if there are cattle in there.

Now all some people here have done is alienate some land owners around the Veteran area ( as well as other parts)
There is lots of private as well as lease land out there, and if a person thinks they are on lease land and they are not, an altercation with a land owner is only going to make matters worse.
Cat

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

After reading all the response on this issue I think I will post all my private land NO HUNTING OR TRESPASSING, end of story,,Now No one will get access ,,its quite simple that people dont get it. So enough is enough ,, and every landowner i talk to in the area i will mention it as well. Especially the ;lease holders that pay the taxes on the land as well. That Some people figure its their God Given right. That will I am sure **** off about a 100 or so hunters that come to my door every year.

It's guys like you that I'd like to keep out of the CITY I PAY TAXES IN. You ever think of that??? Are you making money off of the lease land you pay taxes on? Oh poor you, I hope karma kicks your ass.

If I sound a bit jaded its because I am. I have a few land owners in the area where I have my land with the same attitude as you, I think if they're not willing to share the land to hunters, they shouldn't have a right to lease the land, if they're not happy making money off the land because they have to pay taxes on it, stop leasing the land, it's that simple.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It's guys like you that I'd like to keep out of the CITY I PAY TAXES IN. You ever think of that??? Are you making money off of the lease land you pay taxes on? Oh poor you, I hope karma kicks your ass.

Thanks for alienating the few land owners that weren't disgusted by some of the comments here from some people.... Glad you helped out closing down some more land for hunting....BTW, I would bet Sunset goes to the city about as often as you leave it to shoot a animal on land without permission and head back there.....

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It's guys like you that I'd like to keep out of the CITY I PAY TAXES IN. You ever think of that??? Are you making money off of the lease land you pay taxes on? Oh poor you, I hope karma kicks your ass.

He's talking about his private land and ypu are talking about lease land.
I doubt if you would have much luck putting forth a proposal to keep non city people out, as they buy a lot of stuff from merchants.
I'm sure that he would glady stay off the land you own in the city however....

Cat

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

After reading all the response on this issue I think I will post all my private land NO HUNTING OR TRESPASSING, end of story,,Now No one will get access ,,its quite simple that people dont get it. .

thats about as intelligent as the dingle berries that decided to vote PC when your buddy rocky wouldnt shut it with the wildrose crap.

there seems to be a few hunters that just dont understand the respect pricipal. for those that dont get it, there likely isnt a lot of hope in trying to educate a mind that simple. there are some bad apples in the hunting community that need to be dealt with when they act both irresponsibly and illegally. they should be held accountable by fellow hunters when we see things out there. to tolerate stupid without action is to pat them on the back and say its ok.

same goes for leaseholders. there are some out there absolutely abusing the system. crops and cattle should get first dibs by the paying leaseholder, but the system is in place to assure reasonable access for hunters. that means that using a lease as your own private hunting paradise or selling access to outfitters will not be tolerated. the land belongs to the public, not you, so follow the damn rules.

the problem in this thread is the broad brush being used by a few to paint all individuals from the other side as the bad guy. i think its known by most that the idiot hunters out there are in the minority. they should be held in disdain by all. same for the sphincter leaseholder. if the majority of sane reasonable people would get on board with having them follow the rules, most rancher/farmer vs hunter issues would go away.

all i can say for sure is that im very glad that where i hunt i dont refer to landowners by that name. i call them friends. im away from home working right now and was invited to turkey dinner last night by one of them. i cant wait for the next 5 weeks to go by so i can get back there for some hunting......and also some socializing and poker nights with my friends. thank goodness none of them have the attitudes being displayed in this thread.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by hal53

Thanks for alienating the few land owners that weren't disgusted by some of the comments here from some people.... Glad you helped out closing down some more land for hunting....BTW, I would bet Sunset goes to the city about as often as you leave it to shoot a animal on land without permission and head back there.....

I'm a land owner who ALLOWS hunting on my land, and I've been guiding for over 12yrs in the same area without ever once shooting an animal on land I did not have permission, or ever having any type of confrontation with a land owner. When I hear lease holders whining over having to pay the taxes on land so they think its their right to keep people off it drives me nuts. Even tho hunting is a source of income for me, I am 100% willing to share the land. The animals that roam it are owned by no one, anyone that respects the land should have the right to hunt the animals on it.


I spend about 3 months out of the year in the woods, how bout you Hal?

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I'm a land owner who ALLOWS hunting on my land, and I've been guiding for over 12yrs in the same area without ever once shooting an animal on land I did not have permission, or ever having any type of confrontation with a land owner. When I hear lease holders whining over having to pay the taxes on land so they think its their right to keep people off it drives me nuts. Even tho hunting is a source of income for me, I am 100% willing to share the land. The animals that roam it are owned by no one, anyone that respects the land should have the right to hunt the animals on it.


I spend about 3 months out of the year in the woods, how bout you Hal?

well, I spend about 12 months a year working out here, travel the country everyday... talk to land owners every single day. If the few , on both sides of the equation, would show some respect for each other we would all be better off......attitudes like "it's crown land , so F--- off"...and "I lease it, so only I can hunt it", are both wrong and a solution must be found....there isn't getting to be more land out there to hunt......and I don't spend a lot of time in the "woods", but I spend a lot of time in the bush chasing critters...

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by hal53

well, I spend about 12 months a year working out here, travel the country everyday... talk to land owners every single day. If the few , on both sides of the equation, would show some respect for each other we would all be better off......attitudes like "it's crown land , so F--- off"...and "I lease it, so only I can hunt it", are both wrong and a solution must be found....there isn't getting to be more land out there to hunt......and I don't spend a lot of time in the "woods", but I spend a lot of time in the bush chasing critters...

Ya, I agree 100% about the attitude on both sides, and although I don't lease land, I own land, and not once have I denied hunting access to my land. I'd flip if I found someone on there without permission, but that goes with the respect part. Two years ago I was denied access to lease land where I was watching a 190+ whitetail because the farmer didn't want me shooting that deer, and he told it to my face. Long story short, I stayed off his lease land and never did get that deer. I used to have the utmost respect for this particular guy, now I would let him walk home if I see him broke down. This is the situation that has put a bad taste in my mouth.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

the problem in this thread is the broad brush being used by a few to paint all individuals from the other side as the bad guy.

Regardless of where you stand on this issue, one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Regardless of where you stand on this issue, one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch.

This is very true but it can sure make the rest in the bag less appealing and subject to more scrutiny.

[McLeod Valley]

My favorite season Hunters vs. Lease Holders
Or as I like to call it ,,,, Time to go Fencing on the lease season !!!

[pickrel pat]

I think both sides are 100% in the right.

[Hooter]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

if someone knows this internet cowboy's name and location please PM it to me thanks.

Nait, I have to say that it seems you have some kind of chip on your shoulder by the last few posts of yours that I've read. There's really no need to puff up your chest and attack while trying to make your point. Let's just have a mature discussion because as always, there's 2 sides to every story.

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

thats about as intelligent as the dingle berries that decided to vote PC when your buddy rocky wouldnt shut it with the wildrose crap.

there seems to be a few hunters that just dont understand the respect pricipal. for those that dont get it, there likely isnt a lot of hope in trying to educate a mind that simple. there are some bad apples in the hunting community that need to be dealt with when they act both irresponsibly and illegally. they should be held accountable by fellow hunters when we see things out there. to tolerate stupid without action is to pat them on the back and say its ok.

same goes for leaseholders. there are some out there absolutely abusing the system. crops and cattle should get first dibs by the paying leaseholder, but the system is in place to assure reasonable access for hunters. that means that using a lease as your own private hunting paradise or selling access to outfitters will not be tolerated. the land belongs to the public, not you, so follow the damn rules.

the problem in this thread is the broad brush being used by a few to paint all individuals from the other side as the bad guy. i think its known by most that the idiot hunters out there are in the minority. they should be held in disdain by all. same for the sphincter leaseholder. if the majority of sane reasonable people would get on board with having them follow the rules, most rancher/farmer vs hunter issues would go away.

all i can say for sure is that im very glad that where i hunt i dont refer to landowners by that name. i call them friends. im away from home working right now and was invited to turkey dinner last night by one of them. i cant wait for the next 5 weeks to go by so i can get back there for some hunting......and also some socializing and poker nights with my friends. thank goodness none of them have the attitudes being displayed in this thread.

Dale for the most part I think hunters in general are good folks,, however, after speaking with a substantial number of landowners and lease holders the last few days, there seems to be a the same consensous, people are getting fed up. Land owners in particular. However after the majority read the thread and seen what the attitudes of a few here had to say. they are of the mind set they are going to close their private deeded land to hunting as well. the number of people i have been getting calls from and have dealt with in the last 24 hrs, is staggering. so the response is overwhelming. Landowners, myself included have allowed hunting on our private land which holds the majority of the game. That now will be not accessable by anyhunters because of this. Iife is what you make it they said. well now its made. all the lease land will be free game however alot of it is only accessable from private lands, unles you want to walk for miles to get to it,, Alot of the access on lease lands here will be foot access only, no vehicles of anykind. but acess all you want, i could care less.

That all being said, alot of people are going to get an eye opener when they come to get permissions out here this fall. As for not wanting me in the city, i could care less what goes on there, go buy your beef , chicken and pork at the supermarket and all the veggies. because it comes from all the hard working farmers that produce it, 90 % of the city poulations wouldnt know what to do if that was shut down to them. And FYI I own land in the city as well,, so just like you I have every right to be there as well. As for the outfitters on the forum here that have hunted private land in this area, you might not like the outcome of this fall by many of the landowners, usually the first 3 sentences are about outfitting and their distane for it. just a heads up, alot of people are beyond pizzed off here.

[trouty]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

Dale for the most part I think hunters in general are good folks,, however, after speaking with a substantial number of landowners and lease holders the last few days, there seems to be a the same consensous, people are getting fed up. Land owners in particular. However after the majority read the thread and seen what the attitudes of a few here had to say. they are of the mind set they are going to close their private deeded land to hunting as well. the number of people i have been getting calls from and have dealt with in the last 24 hrs, is staggering. so the response is overwhelming. Landowners, myself included have allowed hunting on our private land which holds the majority of the game. That now will be not accessable by anyhunters because of this. Iife is what you make it they said. well now its made. all the lease land will be free game however alot of it is only accessable from private lands, unles you want to walk for miles to get to it,, Alot of the access on lease lands here will be foot access only, no vehicles of anykind. but acess all you want, i could care less.

That all being said, alot of people are going to get an eye opener when they come to get permissions out here this fall. As for not wanting me in the city, i could care less what goes on there, go buy your beef , chicken and pork at the supermarket and all the veggies. because it comes from all the hard working farmers that produce it, 90 % of the city poulations wouldnt know what to do if that was shut down to them. And FYI I own land in the city as well,, so just like you I have every right to be there as well. As for the outfitters on the forum here that have hunted private land in this area, you might not like the outcome of this fall by many of the landowners, usually the first 3 sentences are about outfitting and their distane for it. just a heads up, alot of people are beyond pizzed off here.

Wow, you have taken a topic about leased land and turned it totally out of context. You are a huge baby! This was never about deeded land and still is'nt.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by trouty

Wow, you have taken a topic about leased land and turned it totally out of context. You are a huge baby! This was never about deeded land and still is'nt.

you are correct..it was never about deeded land, but guess what???...the guys that have the deeded land , also have the leases....so your attitude and a few others has really helped here....NOT... but thanks for posting....

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by New Hunter Okotoks

And this is what got shut down just this past weekend. I'm pretty sure that sunset rider has more pull with his neighbours than some strangers from Calgary.

By the end of the week, I wouldn't be surprised if all of the deeded land down that way is shut down to hunters. This is what happens ( and what will keep happening) when people go out to ranchers and try to tell them: "What's What."

I have heard simalar stuff from more and more landowners over the years.......... " I used to let guys on all the time. But, what happened more and more, was I would then be left cleaning up the mess left by them. I had an out building get shot and some guys give my wife a hard time because she didn't know if there had been any deer around. Now NOBODY hunts my land. You seem like a nice respectfull fella though. I'm Sorry"

I would tell them not to be the least bit sorry because I would do the exact same thing if I was in their boots.

No worries but thanks just the same.

I'm still good to go in the areas I hunt.....unless Sunsetrider11 has longer arms than I think.

I'm not thrilled with the leased land situation...I think there is room for improvement there that could make both sides happier but... there is no point in picking a fight with 3rd party landowners in this forum. And it should be obvious to everyone by now that you can be right as rain but still lose an argument if you go about things wrong.

Oh well... too bad for the folks around Veteran I guess.
Hopefully most of em will have the friends and family thing established.

Otherwise... new guys in that area are going to be SOL.

And for the record... I'm pretty territorial myself... I can understand why landowners get their Irish up although in my experience its usually the guys that let themselves in that are the biggest problem. People are less inclined to jerk around with someone they've shaken hands with and looked in the eye.

Have a good season.

[hal53]

Too bad for the guys around Veteran??..oh well???.... do you not see a problem here in your infinite wisdom???...SHEESH!!!!...wake up Buddy!!!!

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by pesky672

No worries but thanks just the same.

I'm still good to go in the areas I hunt.....unless Sunsetrider11 has longer arms than I think.

I'm not thrilled with the leased land situation...I think there is room for improvement there that could make both sides happier but... there is no point in picking a fight with 3rd party landowners in this forum. And it should be obvious to everyone by now that you can be right as rain but still lose an argument if you go about things wrong.

Oh well... too bad for the folks around Veteran I guess.
Hopefully most of em will have the friends and family thing established.

Otherwise... new guys in that area are going to be SOL.

And for the record... I'm pretty territorial myself... I can understand why landowners get their Irish up although in my experience its usually the guys that let themselves in that are the biggest problem. People are less inclined to jerk around with someone they've shaken hands with and looked in the eye.

Have a good season.

And whats the matter with irish?What ya sayin pesky?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by hal53

you are correct..it was never about deeded land, but guess what???...the guys that have the deeded land , also have the leases....so your attitude and a few others has really helped here....NOT... but thanks for posting....

I think it's the attitude of the lease holders on here who are out of line. If a guy asks permission, the land owner/lease owner knows who's on it, if there's any damage done, they know who did it. If a guy doesn't ask permission, he's got no business being on there, but if they are respectful enough to ask, I'm sure they won't be out there trashing the place. I don't hunt in sunsetters neck of the woods, and I doubt anyone that's arguing with him here do either, his anti hunter stance is as logical as the Muslims in the Middle East flipping out at America over a YouTube video. It's a lack of respect towards respectful sportsmen who aren't as fortunate as us landowners. Where I own land there is still quite a bit of crown land, I feel for the people who live and have to try and hunt in the south. No wonder we get so many people from the Calgary area.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Probably a good idea not to wear it anywhere out in the countryside, a lot of landowners on this board from parts other than Veteran.
Some of these same threads the past couple of years and the poor attitudes have me thinking about checking ID for addresses (rural or entitled urbanite) before allowing access.

No problem.

I'm not asking but by way of example...I currently live in the city but...that wasn't always the case.

I know the whole city vrs country thing comes into play sometimes and to counter that I offer landowner references.
Nobody has ever asked for them though...they just talk to the neighbours.... the guy in the grey Dakota is OK but watch out for the black Dodge duelly....

My thinking is that the word of other landowners ought to carry more weight than an address.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I think it's the attitude of the lease holders on here who are out of line. If a guy asks permission, the land owner/lease owner knows who's on it, if there's any damage done, they know who did it. If a guy doesn't ask permission, he's got no business being on there, but if they are respectful enough to ask, I'm sure they won't be out there trashing the place. I don't hunt in sunsetters neck of the woods, and I doubt anyone that's arguing with him here do either, his anti hunter stance is as logical as the Muslims in the Middle East flipping out at America over a YouTube video. It's a lack of respect towards respectful sportsmen who aren't as fortunate as us landowners. Where I own land there is still quite a bit of crown land, I feel for the people who live and have to try and hunt in the south. No wonder we get so many people from the Calgary area.

That's nice that you "feel for them", if they returned the favor half the time, they would have no problem getting access...not at 0730 on opening morning (it has happened)...and leave the place like you found it...pretty easy...but a foreign concept to lots of them., thus we are where we're at....don't b***ch boys when you can find no land to hunt on.., blame the guys here with their cute posts about "how they own it".... and will will do as we like...for 2 days ouit of the year

[killer18]

Originally Posted by hal53

do you actually hunt????.......

probably for more yrs than you

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by hal53

Too bad for the guys around Veteran??..oh well???.... do you not see a problem here in your infinite wisdom???...SHEESH!!!!...wake up Buddy!!!!

WTF!?!

Yeah I do.

Just like there was no gun lobby in Canada until Wendy came along.
There was no organized anti-hunter landowner association until guys started to pipe off here.
And what would you have me do about it Hal?
I never started the damn fire but I did try... in my own little way... to keep it from spreading.

Too late....the cow is out of the barn... across the pasture through the gate and eating the neighbours prize roses.

Only way to fix this now would be with a freaking time machine.

Best thing that could happen now would be if a mod stepped in and closed the damn thread before people start making signs and carrying torches.

This train wreck is just getting worse.

[killer18]

Hal, you need to read up on the laws a little. you cannot turn down access to lease land. all live stock must be out by end of oct. so people can hunt. IT IS THE LAW.

[pikeslayer22]

Originally Posted by killer18

Hal, you need to read up on the laws a little. you cannot turn down access to lease land. all live stock must be out by end of oct. so people can hunt. IT IS THE LAW.

Can you show me where it says in the "law" livestock must be out by the end of October?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by hal53

That's nice that you "feel for them", if they returned the favor half the time, they would have no problem getting access...not at 0730 on opening morning (it has happened)...and leave the place like you found it...pretty easy...but a foreign concept to lots of them., thus we are where we're at....don't b***ch boys when you can find no land to hunt on.., blame the guys here with thier cute posts about "how they own it".... and will will do as we like...

Your missing the point here Hal, trouty is doing what he is legally entitled to do, the kind of guys your talking about don't care that setters closing the doors, it never stopped them before and ain't gonna stop them now. Sunsetter seems to be a bully, saying "oh ya, you wanna raise a stink because you can't get on the land (which trouty is legally entitled to), well I'm gonna tell all my friends to keep all the hunters out". It's asinine.

Like I said, it doesn't bother me one bit what he decides to do, I've been hunting the same area since 1990 and have 10,000's of acres to hunt, and if someone tells me to stop allowing hunters on my land because of an argument they had on the Internet I'd laugh them to my gate.

I've been through drive by shootings on my land where they shoot then take off and come back later to pick up their deer, bucks shot at night and left in my field so I can find them in the morning, having my cabin broken into and ransacked, having my firewood stolen, people dumping their ash trays in my yard, and you know what? Not one of these incidents was committed by a respectful hunter who asked permission, so why would I want to shut them down other than my own greed?

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by pikeslayer22

Can you show me where it says in the "law" livestock must be out by the end of October?

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/LandsFores...Dec2014-07.pdf

Can't find it in there. Could it be a bit of confusion between grazing permits like in the foothills, and actual grazing leases?