Feelings about outfitters - Page 5

Smoke · #**121** 04-22-2011, 06:55 AM

Any more outfitter haters out their this morning, you might as well get your story, it makes for good entertainment. Man how we hate competition.

Tatonka · #**122** 04-22-2011, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke

Any more outfitter haters out their this morning, you might as well get your story, it makes for good entertainment. Man how we hate competition.

I'm not sure what the laws are in Canada, but in the U.S. it's been clarified in the courts that wildlife belongs to the people.........all the people. Not just the landowner and certainly not the outfitters. When people immigrated to North America they did not want it to be like Europe where only the wealthy could hunt, but it's heading that way despite what the courts have stated. It has nothing to do with competition....

ishootbambi · #**123** 04-22-2011, 10:26 AM

^^^ the wildlife belongs to the people tatonka, but paying for hunting rights is legal there right? thats where your government has failed to uphold the first part.

walking buffalo · #**124** 04-22-2011, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatonka

I'm not sure what the laws are in Canada, but in the U.S. it's been clarified in the courts that wildlife belongs to the people.........all the people. Not just the landowner and certainly not the outfitters. When people immigrated to North America they did not want it to be like Europe where only the wealthy could hunt, but it's heading that way despite what the courts have stated. It has nothing to do with competition....

I wish the rest of the states AND Canada would follow Montana's example in getting rid of game farms..

So with US court clarification that "wildlife belongs to the people.........all the people", why are game farms and shooting preserves allowed in so many states?

Here is a link to the homepage of "Our Wildlife Heritage"

http://www.ourwildlifeheritage.ca/

This page is brand new, only a day old. There will be lots of additional information updated ASAP. Please bookmark it and come back. Pass the link on.

This webpage will be covering local, national, and international issues involving Wildlife and working towards abolishing Game Farming . I am helping with an Alberta page. Have any thoughts, send me a pm.

Thanks,

Dale

The cooter · #**125** 04-22-2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echo

You can say this about any industry not just outfitting,and if you think that cash does'nt trade hands in the oilfield,mining sector or forestry then you better wake up.

BINGO!!! Big time in oil and gas.

Red Bullets · #**126** 04-23-2011, 12:06 AM

The outfitting business is just that. Business.
It is merely disguised as "guided hunts" to justify letting others harvest Alberta's wildlife just for the sake of money. Alot of the 'hunters' don't even take the meat of the animals they shoot. Landowners and outfitters will continue to corrupt the system until laws are put into place.
Talk to your politicians. It is the laws that are the problem. If the word 'hunt' was taken out of the outfitting industry's vocabulary... government would not be able justify this industry preying on our wildlife.
__________________-

A reasonable man adapts and lives in the environment
The unreasonable man tries to change the environment to suite himself
Therefore all progress is based on the unreasonable man.

Tatonka · #**127** 04-23-2011, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

^^^ the wildlife belongs to the people tatonka, but paying for hunting rights is legal there right? thats where your government has failed to uphold the first part.

You are absolutely correct. The government has failed miserably on this issue. I have a tough time with the concept that "Outfitters" and landowners should be able to profit from wildlife that belongs to the people. I fully understand that wildlife can do damage to crops, haystacks, etc. but if landowners would not lock up their land, lease it to outfitters, etc. hunters would be able to help reduce the number of animals on the land, but that isn't the case the majority of the time.

The pendelum has started to swing the other way.....Outdoorsmen here are starting to stand up for their rights. They are tired of tip-toeing around landowners fearing that if they did anything that the landowners might disagree with that more land would be locked up. It's a delicate issue, but I'm seeing outdoorsman finally stepping up and saying that enough is enough. "Outifitters" used to receive 5,600 licenses for their clients. A group got together to protest this and it was on the ballot last year to eliminate those licenses that were specifically eartagged for outfitters and it passed by a landslide. Those tags that used to be set aside for Outfitters now are added to the number of licenses available to non-residents. Outfitters were irate, but the people were heard.

ishootbambi · #**128** 04-23-2011, 10:04 AM

^^^^ well done! i have always admired the people of montana for their willingness to unite to protect themselves. i could only hope that albertans might someday do the same.

trigger7mm · #**129** 04-23-2011, 10:12 AM

X2!!!!

moose maniac · #**130** 04-24-2011, 04:01 PM

i have seen the clients of a certain outfitter paying the land owner to sit in stands for deer,cash and a bootle per evening i would imagine this would be illegal???

Redfrog · #**131** 04-24-2011, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moose maniac

i have seen the clients of a certain outfitter paying the land owner to sit in stands for deer,cash and a bootle per evening i would imagine this would be illegal???

What happened when you reported it?

moose maniac · #**132** 04-24-2011, 06:29 PM

well if you actually read the post i am asking if it is illegal for a client of an outfitter to do this.I would not waste time reporting something that is impossible to prove

Redfrog · #**133** 04-25-2011, 09:38 AM

I did read your post. If you call it in they will tell you whether something is illegal or not.

BTW If you have read the threads on this site I think it has been posted a hundred times that payment for access is illegal.

echo · #**134** 04-25-2011, 01:12 PM

Many residents also pay for access..this is such an old topic it's boring already,like it has been said already there is good and bad in every industry !!

DAVE · #**135** 04-25-2011, 01:36 PM

On the weekend when i was back for easter neighbor was saying Bill Machura Diamound willow outfitting is in hot water souds like they had a couple under cover guys hunt with him last couple years. after this season threw the book at him. herd some of the deer his hunters shot were in sask,A long ways from were he has allociations.

3rivers · #**136** 04-25-2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVE

On the weekend when i was back for easter neighbor was saying Bill Machura Diamound willow outfitting is in hot water souds like they had a couple under cover guys hunt with him last couple years. after this season threw the book at him. herd some of the deer his hunters shot were in sask,A long ways from were he has allociations.

Lots of good, hear say... maybe they could call you as a witness if it goes to court!

3rivers · #**137** 04-25-2011, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echo

Many residents also pay for access..this is such an old topic it's boring already,like it has been said already there is good and bad in every industry !!

X2,

DAVE · #**138** 04-25-2011, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rivers

Lots of good, hear say... maybe they could call you as a witness if it goes to court!

No problem if they ask but from what i here they have lots of goodies for court. Never can tell who is watching with the video camera.I have Lionel and stacey's cell number on my cell phone seed dial. You know who they are of course you do the 2 nice F&W guys from veg.

sask#1 · #**139** 04-25-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVE

On the weekend when i was back for easter neighbor was saying Bill Machura Diamound willow outfitting is in hot water souds like they had a couple under cover guys hunt with him last couple years. after this season threw the book at him. herd some of the deer his hunters shot were in sask,A long ways from were he has allociations.

the deer were shot in sask or the hunters were from sask?

echo · #**140** 04-25-2011, 09:53 PM

Rumors,hear say,he said ,she said,my buddy told me..blah blah blah...if we all invest some money i'm sure we could get this soap opera on prime time !!!

slough shark · #**141** 04-25-2011, 10:28 PM

offhand I was wondering if anyone knows about the legality of outfitters scouting from planes? now they are not calling down to hunters on the ground but they are doing their scouting from planes. Is this just a highly effective way of scouting or is it something kinda shady? if it is legal I may have to look at doing it next time I am drawn for mulie buck

packhuntr · #**142** 04-25-2011, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVE

On the weekend when i was back for easter neighbor was saying Bill Machura Diamound willow outfitting is in hot water souds like they had a couple under cover guys hunt with him last couple years. after this season threw the book at him. herd some of the deer his hunters shot were in sask,A long ways from were he has allociations.

Not to condone such things as mentioned, true or not, but I cant bring myself to understand why a guy would have to go somewhere else to shoot a deer, not with Alberta's management, no way, LOL!

echo · #**143** 04-25-2011, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slough shark

offhand I was wondering if anyone knows about the legality of outfitters scouting from planes? now they are not calling down to hunters on the ground but they are doing their scouting from planes. Is this just a highly effective way of scouting or is it something kinda shady? if it is legal I may have to look at doing it next time I am drawn for mulie buck

So now its illegal for outfitters to fly aswell,this just keeps getting better.

hihi962 · #**144** 04-26-2011, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echo

Rumors,hear say,he said ,she said,my buddy told me..blah blah blah...if we all invest some money i'm sure we could get this soap opera on prime time !!!

Fact:
none of what DAVE says is "here say"... it's real, they also tried to pinch another "outfitter" in the area, but he was too sneaky (Grant Cossey's outfitting set-up)
it was written up in the local paper... really, this should be provincial news, not just locally in the Lamont newspaper. I think a single outfitting operation tenuring 57 charges, is no slight offence.
Unfortunately the F&W do not have enough resources to monitor all these guides, so they get away with a lot of murders. when money is involved most of the outfitters are more then happy to break the rules.
Like it was stated earlier, they are not here to shoot a doe or keep any meat... they are here for huge horns, or hammering as many geese as possible.

and no, there is not good and bad in every industry.. outfitters are more often bad then not... sure oil and gas make huge profits, but all their employees pay tax and we all proseper from it (I sure like gas in my car)... what in the world does the guiding business do for anyone?? it's near completely corrupt.

also, regarding slough sharks comment, you can't hunt for about 6 hours (or something of the sort) after disembarking an aircraft. but Yea, those two guides that were cited in charges, also have aircraft! and totally use them to spot game, get near game, chase game, and get clients to game.. yep, real ethical there boys! might as well install an M-60 turret while you're at it! why get out of the aircraft to make a kill?

DAVE · #**145** 04-26-2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Not to condone such things as mentioned, true or not, but I cant bring myself to understand why a guy would have to go somewhere else to shoot a deer, not with Alberta's management, no way, LOL!

It is all about the money and big bucks.People start asking questions when every year you produce 4 or 5 180 deer from 1 wmu.But again this is what i was told last weekend by a few neighbours that LIVE There.

DAVE · #**146** 04-26-2011, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hihi962

Fact:
none of what DAVE says is "here say"... it's real, they also tried to pinch another "outfitter" in the area, but he was too sneaky (Grant Cossey's outfitting set-up)
it was written up in the local paper... really, this should be provincial news, not just locally in the Lamont newspaper. I think a single outfitting operation tenuring 57 charges, is no slight offence.
Unfortunately the F&W do not have enough resources to monitor all these guides, so they get away with a lot of murders. when money is involved most of the outfitters are more then happy to break the rules.
Like it was stated earlier, they are not here to shoot a doe or keep any meat... they are here for huge horns, or hammering as many geese as possible.

and no, there is not good and bad in every industry.. outfitters are more often bad then not... sure oil and gas make huge profits, but all their employees pay tax and we all proseper from it (I sure like gas in my car)... what in the world does the guiding business do for anyone?? it's near completely corrupt.

also, regarding slough sharks comment, you can't hunt for about 6 hours (or something of the sort) after disembarking an aircraft. but Yea, those two guides that were cited in charges, also have aircraft! and totally use them to spot game, get near game, chase game, and get clients to game.. yep, real ethical there boys! might as well install an M-60 turret while you're at it! why get out of the aircraft to make a kill?

Thank You.

echo · #**147** 04-26-2011, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hihi962

Fact:
none of what DAVE says is "here say"... it's real, they also tried to pinch another "outfitter" in the area, but he was too sneaky (Grant Cossey's outfitting set-up)
it was written up in the local paper... really, this should be provincial news, not just locally in the Lamont newspaper. I think a single outfitting operation tenuring 57 charges, is no slight offence.
Unfortunately the F&W do not have enough resources to monitor all these guides, so they get away with a lot of murders. when money is involved most of the outfitters are more then happy to break the rules.
Like it was stated earlier, they are not here to shoot a doe or keep any meat... they are here for huge horns, or hammering as many geese as possible.

and no, there is not good and bad in every industry.. outfitters are more often bad then not... sure oil and gas make huge profits, but all their employees pay tax and we all proseper from it (I sure like gas in my car)... what in the world does the guiding business do for anyone?? it's near completely corrupt.

also, regarding slough sharks comment, you can't hunt for about 6 hours (or something of the sort) after disembarking an aircraft. but Yea, those two guides that were cited in charges, also have aircraft! and totally use them to spot game, get near game, chase game, and get clients to game.. yep, real ethical there boys! might as well install an M-60 turret while you're at it! why get out of the aircraft to make a kill?

slough shark · #**148** 04-26-2011, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echo

So now its illegal for outfitters to fly aswell,this just keeps getting better.

Hey I never said it was illegal I was just WONDERING if flying low and slow up and down coulees looking for big bucks was legal, I thought it may be considered harassment of wildlife. If you read the rest of my post I also suggested if there was no problems with this I might have to consider it a valid form of scouting as driving around glassing takes up a lot of time and gas in the truck. Hey I have no problem with someone scouting out animals, if they put in the time and effort they will be rewarded which is fine by me I was just wondering if is was considered legal. The only reason it was on this particular thread is I have seen an outfitter do it and because I've seen him do it and that doesn't necessarily make it legal.

echo · #**149** 04-26-2011, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slough shark

Hey I never said it was illegal I was just WONDERING if flying low and slow up and down coulees looking for big bucks was legal, I thought it may be considered harassment of wildlife. If you read the rest of my post I also suggested if there was no problems with this I might have to consider it a valid form of scouting as driving around glassing takes up a lot of time and gas in the truck. Hey I have no problem with someone scouting out animals, if they put in the time and effort they will be rewarded which is fine by me I was just wondering if is was considered legal. The only reason it was on this particular thread is I have seen an outfitter do it and because I've seen him do it and that doesn't necessarily make it legal.

i'm sure if you read the regs you will find the answer your looking for..

slough shark · #**150** 04-26-2011, 11:48 PM

# harass, injure or kill any wildlife with a vehicle, aircraft or boat.
# hunt any wildlife with or from an aircraft, or communicate, for the purpose of hunting, the signs or whereabouts of wildlife seen during a flight on an aircraft.

These are the posted rules, it says nothing about time lines nor does it define harass wildlife which is why I asked