High River Gun seizure - Sun News needs first hand accounts

[blueskys]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Do you believe any lives were saved by seizing firearms? Even one?

Did the people deserve to have their firearms seized just because they were in an evac centre waiting for stuff to happen? It's easy to do when you're sittin' in an evac centre isn't it?

Does any blameless person ever deserve to have their legally owned and stored firearm seized from them?

One can be grateful of many things, that their houses are still standing for sure, that they are alive for sure.......but why would you be grateful for the RCMP seizing your guns?

In order to move on with ones life, if is important to understand what is going on in your life. If something is screwed......you want to unscrew it so it has less chance of recurring.

There needs to be a public spanking.

The RCMP arbitrarily seizing guns for no good reason is wrong. If you think there is good reason tell us the good reason. Public safety was never an issue so that is not a good reason. Taking that out of the equation you are left with?

There is much spin doctoring going on in the RCMP and the government and it appears you buy into it? That's fine.....it always happens.

Good post.

[ErikL]

Hi guys, i have been following these forums for sometime however don't really post as you can see. I'm in the military and was deployed to high river for 5 days as part of the emergency response, i'm posting just clarify a few things as nobody was there and it's all speculation.

We helped the RCMP conduct house searches to ensure no people/animals were deceased or in distress as there was over 100 missing people at the time we conducted the searches. Respect was payed as much as possible to homeowners property and i can say the RCMP used forced entry as little as possible and always taking the cheapest way in if they had to. We did come upon several "suspicious" homes, which were only scribed and not touched in any way, and any firearms in the open we came into contact with were cleared and place in a closet.

I left 26th of June and obviously the RCMP had come back after that and took the firearms, but i want to people to realize that this place was deserted aside from a few hundred who chose to stay. the rcmp was catching people sneaking in all times of the day, some just home owners and some with no ties to the town at all who most likely had alterior motives for entering the town. While i would be ****ed if anyone touched my guns, seeing it first hand and the respect and sympathy they displayed while still trying to maintain order and prevent 100 of weapons from being looted was good. I think the brass who's miles of way and the media made it seem like way more of a dick move than it actually was.

Just my 2 cents.

[elkhunter11]

I left 26th of June and obviously the RCMP had come back after that and took the firearms,

So by your own admission, you weren't actually present to witness the RCMP taking the firearms? Therefore you have no way of knowing how much care they took when they seized those firearms, or how many firearms they may have taken, that you didn't see while you were present.

You also bring up one point which I find very interesting, that being that you claim that the RCMP did not take the firearms while they were conducting the searches for people, but rather, they returned later, to take the firearms. That doesn't match up with what was reported earlier. The RCMP have maintained that they only went to those homes to search for survivors, and they deny that the purpose was to seize firearms. You certainly make it appear that the RCMP returned to the homes with the specific purpose of seizing the firearms.

[midgetwaiter]

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/2554115349001

So looks like Sun hasn't turned up any accounts of a legally stored firearm being removed yet.

Interesting.

[Kanonfodder]

How on earth did you come to that conclusion? Did we watch the same video ?

[sailor]

Or been the same place?

[blackpheasant]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/2554115349001

So looks like Sun hasn't turned up any accounts of a legally stored firearm being removed yet.

Interesting.

Yes the RCMP can be an intimidating force especially in small town Alberta

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/2554115349001

So looks like Sun hasn't turned up any accounts of a legally stored firearm being removed yet.

Interesting.

300 people don't have a safe storage place and are using the RCMP as a free alternative.

At least the Sun is working hard to find the facts. If they don't find anything that will be telling. It has been a long time already...still something could crop up.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Why did it take the RCMP until now to report the numbers of rifles? Did they have to enter them into a system that should not exist?

LC

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/2554115349001

So looks like Sun hasn't turned up any accounts of a legally stored firearm being removed yet.

Interesting.

And part of the reason for that is that the RCMP refuse to answer the question. Is that not interesting also?

ARG

[elkhunter11]

Why did it take the RCMP until now to report the numbers of rifles? Did they have to enter them into a system that should not exist?

Perhaps it took them that long to round up enough officers, so that they had enough fingers and toes available to count that high.

On a more serious note, any such records, that link a firearm to a PAL/POL, could constitute a registry, which is illegal since the long gun registry was abolished.

And part of the reason for that is that the RCMP refuse to answer the question. Is that not interesting also?

Given that some officers don't understand the safe storage regulations themselves, the higher ups likely don't even know how many of the seized firearms were in fact being stored legally.

How many reports have there been of officers pulling over vehicles, and seizing firearms that were supposedly being transported illegally, and it turned out that the firearms in fact were being transported legally, but the officer didn't understand the regulations? I do know that many people carry a paper copy of the regulations in their vehicles for that exact reason.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher

And part of the reason for that is that the RCMP refuse to answer the question. Is that not interesting also?

ARG

Very interesting indeed! And somewhat disappointing.

[elkhunter11]

Very interesting indeed! And somewhat disappointing.
__________________

And unfortunately, not at all surprising.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Given that some officers don't understand the safe storage regulations themselves, the higher ups likely don't even know how many of the seized firearms were in fact being stored legally.

That is why I find the attitude that if the police seized them they must have been stored illegally so disturbing.

ARG

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

300 people don't have a safe storage place and are using the RCMP as a free alternative.

At least the Sun is working hard to find the facts. If they don't find anything that will be telling. It has been a long time already...still something could crop up.

I'm glad they're looking into this too. It goes without saying that the residents that are going through this have other things that are a priority right now so we'll see what happens in the future. Still if this was the out of control seizure operation that some of us were freaking out about there would at least be a photo of a broken cabinet or two by now.

Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher

And part of the reason for that is that the RCMP refuse to answer the question. Is that not interesting also?

It is.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

How many reports have there been of officers pulling over vehicles, and seizing firearms that were supposedly being transported illegally, and it turned out that the firearms in fact were being transported legally, but the officer didn't understand the regulations? I do know that many people carry a paper copy of the regulations in their vehicles for that exact reason.

My gut feeling is that this is the most likely explanation, I have trouble imagining nearly 600 firearms were stored illegally in a town that size. We'll see what comes out during the investigation.

[blackpheasant]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

I'm glad they're looking into this too. It goes without saying that the residents that are going through this have other things that are a priority right now so we'll see what happens in the future. Still if this was the out of control seizure operation that some of us were freaking out about there would at least be a photo of a broken cabinet or two by now.



It is.



My gut feeling is that this is the most likely explanation, I have trouble imagining nearly 600 firearms were stored illegally in a town that size. We'll see what comes out during the investigation.

I can answer that for you right now, "no wrong doing was found", no wrong doing is ever found when cops investigate cops, besides they will drag out the investigation until 2015 and hope nobody cares anymore, that's how they roll...

[ErikL]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So by your own admission, you weren't actually present to witness the RCMP taking the firearms? Therefore you have no way of knowing how much care they took when they seized those firearms, or how many firearms they may have taken, that you didn't see while you were present.

You also bring up one point which I find very interesting, that being that you claim that the RCMP did not take the firearms while they were conducting the searches for people, but rather, they returned later, to take the firearms. That doesn't match up with what was reported earlier. The RCMP have maintained that they only went to those homes to search for survivors, and they deny that the purpose was to seize firearms. You certainly make it appear that the RCMP returned to the homes with the specific purpose of seizing the firearms.

There was no directive issued in regards to firearms during the searches, it was just common sense to move a firearm from plain sight to a closet which was agreed upon by all partys present. My opinion is that it just came up in a nightly o group that we found a **** ton of firearms many of which were stored improperly and looting was still a potential problem, they just took them to ensure one less problem in a town of problems. Like i say i wasn't there during the seizure and have no idea the actual reasoning behind it, but judging by the situation on the ground it was a good call.

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by ErikL

There was no directive issued in regards to firearms during the searches, it was just common sense to move a firearm from plain sight to a closet which was agreed upon by all partys present. My opinion is that it just came up in a nightly o group that we found a **** ton of firearms many of which were stored improperly and looting was still a potential problem, they just took them to ensure one less problem in a town of problems. Like i say i wasn't there during the seizure and have no idea the actual reasoning behind it, but judging by the situation on the ground it was a good call.

Well clearly, with you actually BEING there, and being a respected member of the armed forces, and being in direct contact with all parties involved, you have no where NEAR the incite that a bunch of keyboard warriors sitting behind their computers listening to rumour and hysteria do. What were you thinking!?!

/sarcasm

[just_dave]

ErikL, when the rcmp went back to the homes containing guns. When the initial search for people was finished, did the rcmp also search through say, dresser drawers where guns could have been improperly stored? You know, just to make sure to do a safety check while they were there?

Thanks, ErikL.

[elkhunter11]

Well clearly, with you actually BEING there,

According to him, he was not present when any firearms were seized by the RCMP.

Like i say i wasn't there during the seizure and have no idea the actual reasoning behind it,

But don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But don't lets the facts get in the way of your argument.

Don't let fear mongering, rumours, hysteria, and conspiracy theorists get in the way of yours!

"DERR TERK ARRE GUNNNS"

[elkhunter11]

Don't let fear mongering, rumours, hysteria, and conspiracy theorists get in the way of yours!

So if everything was done legal and proper by the RCMP, why won't they make a statement as to just how many of those seized firearms were being stored illegally? Why did it take this long, for them to even release the number of firearms that were seized? People that have nothing to hide, are usually anxious to release information that will support their claims.

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So if everything was done legal and proper by the RCMP, why won't they make a statement as to just how many of those seized firearms were being stored illegally? Why did it take this long, for them to even release the number of firearms that were seized? People that have nothing to hide, are usually anxious to release information that will support their claims.

Here...this may help:

[just_dave]

Originally Posted by Calgary Dave

Well clearly, with you actually BEING there, and being a respected member of the armed forces, and being in direct contact with all parties involved, you have no where NEAR the incite that a bunch of keyboard warriors sitting behind their computers listening to rumour and hysteria do. What were you thinking!?!

/sarcasm

Dave, do you know ErikL?

[ErikL]

Originally Posted by just_dave

ErikL, when the rcmp went back to the homes containing guns. When the initial search for people was finished, did the rcmp also search through say, dresser drawers where guns could have been improperly stored? You know, just to make sure to do a safety check while they were there?

Thanks, ErikL.

I have no idea what they went back through after we left, we did a very quick search of the home to make sure no people or animals were present and left, we never went through peoples stuff, the only time i opened anything aside from the front or back door was to stick a gun in a closet.

[elkhunter11]

I have no idea what they went back through after we left, we did a very quick search of the home to make sure no people or animals were present and left, we never went through peoples stuff, the only time i opened anything aside from the front or back door was to stick a gun in a closet.

What you are telling us that you did, is all that needed to happen. If the RCMP had left it at that, like they should have, all would have been fine.

[blackpheasant]

Originally Posted by ErikL

I have no idea what they went back through after we left, we did a very quick search of the home to make sure no people or animals were present and left, we never went through peoples stuff, the only time i opened anything aside from the front or back door was to stick a gun in a closet.

There were no witnesses such as yourself when they went back in the second time, how convenient.

[just_dave]

Originally Posted by ErikL

I have no idea what they went back through after we left, we did a very quick search of the home to make sure no people or animals were present and left, we never went through peoples stuff, the only time i opened anything aside from the front or back door was to stick a gun in a closet.

Ok, so the rcmp went back into the homes to seize the guns after the initial search for survivors was conducted.

Thanks for serving in The Canadian Forces, Erik. I have a lot of respect for the Canadian Military.

[blackpheasant]

Originally Posted by just_dave

Ok, so the rcmp went back into the homes to seize the guns after the initial search for survivors was conducted.

Thanks for serving in The Canadian Forces, Erik. I have a lot of respect for the Canadian Military.

X2, without question!

[sask]

FYI

On Friday, Sgt. Patricia Neely of the RCMP said that some of the 539 weapons seized had trigger locks

Gee.....