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03-11-2011, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
Does anyone have a problem with hunting or shooting Feral pigs?
just curious.
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LOL...they aren't cute and cuddly....they are actually classified as pests under the stray animal act and can be shot on sight...the same act that protects horses.....odd hey?
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03-11-2011, 10:41 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 11,576
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They've been around since the 1700's. Introduced to the island via a number of means. The island has been 'closed to the public' for years.
Perhaps a model the Y2Y gang has looked toward in advocating for protection of Alberta's 'wild horses'?
Food for thought.
http://www.greenhorsesociety.com/horses/horses.htm
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03-11-2011, 11:22 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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Were it permitted, beyond the respect due any animal, I would not bat an eyelash at dispatching a feral horse, or a dozen.
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03-11-2011, 11:24 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rimbey
Posts: 5,908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
Were it permitted, beyond the respect due any animal, I would not bat an eyelash at dispatching a feral horse, or a dozen.
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Im sure a few would, and a few may even get them mounted but do you honestly think that law would ever get passed?
SG
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03-11-2011, 11:30 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepguide
Im sure a few would, and a few may even get them mounted but do you honestly think that law would ever get passed?
SG
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No idea.
but I have seen and experienced the detriment of emotion over fact first hand.
no PETA card in my wallet.
Additionally, I would not want one mounted.
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03-12-2011, 12:24 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 334
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horses
If they are just "there" then make them some kind of species. either they are a abandoned agricultural animal, or a thriving habitual ungulate known to this region, therefore deemed to environmental control. If they are abandoned animals, treat as such, if they are habitual, then open a season and control them, as same as every ungulate! SIMPLE !!
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03-12-2011, 01:41 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
Does anyone have a problem with hunting or shooting Feral pigs?
just curious.
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you bet as they are a government pigs, they should not be hunted or shot they should be aloud to produce so that every person in the province can shoot at least one a year, and I hope every last one of them takes up residents in the areas where the people live that think that wild horses should be portected.
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03-12-2011, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lannie
Rancher-
You caught 21 and kept 10, turned the others loose.
I am not judgemental, i am curious. It would be quite fine with me if 11 went to ft. Mcleod. Why did you set them loose ? In my thinking after you caught them they are yours to do what you please. You set them loose, was your choice thats fine too. Why ?
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We were on a permit system by where we could keep a female horse(of any age) we had to have caught & kept three male horses(of any age) So we had caught too many females and following the law we had to turn them loose. I thought I would clarify this so you all will get the right picture.
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03-12-2011, 08:50 AM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Between Bodo and a hard place
Posts: 20,168
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"Additionally, I would not want one mounted."
Pretty hard to ride them unless you mount them. 
__________________
I'm not lying!!! You are just experiencing it differently. 
It isn't a question of who will allow me, but who will stop me.. Ayn Rand
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03-12-2011, 09:01 AM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Rocky Mountain House
Posts: 5,219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nait Hadya
this story has been going around for so many years it is now urban legend. or would it be rural legend? lol
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I have spoken with Kyle and some others connected to the cougar study west of Rocky. I have also read through his "report". Feral horses were on the menu of some cougars near Nordegg and one big male had a real taste for them.
Ignoring the "emotional factor" feral horses did not evolve with the other native critters and the habitat in our west country. They should be controlled, reduced. I don't think it is possible to eliminate them but that would be a good idea.
At least opening some kind of season on them would be a start. Or a no season no limit, "Wanted dead or alive" status.
Some feral horses above the Ram river on some elk winter range.
__________________
Robin,
Archery Sept. 1 - Oct. 31 Muzzleloader and Crossbow Oct. 1 - Oct. 31 Rifle Nov. 25 - Nov. 30
...And HIS kingdom shall have no end...
Last edited by duffy4; 03-12-2011 at 09:10 AM.
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03-12-2011, 12:56 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Innisfail
Posts: 2,022
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03-12-2011, 02:09 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 2,163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duffy4
I have spoken with Kyle and some others connected to the cougar study west of Rocky. I have also read through his "report". Feral horses were on the menu of some cougars near Nordegg and one big male had....
Some feral horses above the Ram river on some elk winter range.
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undated research, that has become rural legend.
I have never seen any wild horses in the ram drainage,where were those four?
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03-12-2011, 02:16 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: AB
Posts: 3,350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nait Hadya
undated research, that has become rural legend.
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Your wrong Nait. Plain and simple.
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03-12-2011, 02:27 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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people like them just because they are horses, but there are only another feral animal just like wild pig or any invasive weed....
I don't know if they do any damage to other real canadian wildlife, but I know for sure that every piece of grass that they eat is no longer available for deer and elk
according to me they're just a huge cockroach..
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03-12-2011, 02:30 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rocky Mtn Hse
Posts: 3,006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nait Hadya
undated research, that has become rural legend.
I have never seen any wild horses in the ram drainage,where were those four?
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There are definatly horses in the Ram drainage, I have seen them myself.
I hate it when I agree with Duffy 
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03-12-2011, 03:04 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 2,163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
Your wrong Nait. Plain and simple.
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wrong about what? i have heard the story many times,every time a wild horse issue makes the paper, this ancient research is quoted. I am not saying it has not occured,just that it is dated information and does not necessarily represent what is occuring out there now. so what,one lion ate on a few feral horses, does that mean lions are controlling their populations,NO! a lion feed on a horse carcass does not mean it killed it. i don't see anything but old age controlling feral horse numbers. i could be wrong though, so prove it with factual evidence not speculations. researchers should be more concerned with how many sheep a lion killls, not feral trash.
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03-12-2011, 03:07 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nait Hadya
undated research, that has become rural legend.
I have never seen any wild horses in the ram drainage,where were those four?
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Not that it is necessary, but to re-affirm your lack of knowledge.
Kyle's cougar paper shows the results of 1428 depredaton events over a ten year period in Clearwater County. If you actually read the research, you will see that is includes dates....
Seasonal comparison of the proportional frequency of prey in the diet of adult female, adult male, and subadult cougars.
Females Summer 0.5%
Winter 0.0%
Sub Adults Summer 0.0%
Winter 0.0 %
Males Summer 13.1%
Winter 10.5%
My personal anecdotal findings is that cougars generally prey on 1-2 year old horses. These kills usually occur in heavy cover. I have found over a hundred cougar killed horses in the last 5 years on a particular Native Nation. The kill sites are all very similar, as is the age of the horse.
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03-12-2011, 03:12 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rocky Mtn Hse
Posts: 3,006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nait Hadya
wrong about what? i have heard the story many times,every time a wild horse issue makes the paper, this ancient research is quoted. I am not saying it has not occured,just that it is dated information and does not necessarily represent what is occuring out there now. so what,one lion ate on a few feral horses, does that mean lions are controlling their populations,NO! a lion feed on a horse carcass does not mean it killed it. i don't see anything but old age controlling feral horse numbers. i could be wrong though, so prove it with factual evidence not speculations. researchers should be more concerned with how many sheep a lion killls, not feral trash.
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You are going on a tangent Nait, Duffy never said that the cougars were controling populations. No where in his post did he even suggest that cougers were "controling" the wild horse populations.
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03-12-2011, 03:16 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: AB
Posts: 3,350
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Thanks for posting WB.
***Nait***
Over a 100 cat killed horses on one Reservation, in the last five years.
Thats a small area, with alot of horses feeding big predators.
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03-12-2011, 03:42 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 2,163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Not that it is necessary, but to re-affirm your lack of knowledge.
Kyle's cougar paper shows the results of 1428 depredaton events over a ten year period in Clearwater County. If you actually read the research, you will see that is includes dates....
Seasonal comparison of the proportional frequency of prey in the diet of adult female, adult male, and subadult cougars.
Females Summer 0.5%
Winter 0.0%
Sub Adults Summer 0.0%
Winter 0.0 %
Males Summer 13.1%
Winter 10.5%
My personal anecdotal findings is that cougars generally prey on 1-2 year old horses. These kills usually occur in heavy cover. I have found over a hundred cougar killed horses in the last 5 years on a particular Native Nation. The kill sites are all very similar, as is the age of the horse.
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date his research not the kills....LOL.................. reserve ponies,lol did he also count dogs and cats in his "study" lol..........
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03-12-2011, 03:49 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rocky Mtn Hse
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What are you really getting at Nait? I don't think anyone, including yourself, understands what point you are trying to make?
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03-12-2011, 03:52 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: AB
Posts: 3,350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nait Hadya
date his research not the kills....LOL.................. reserve ponies,lol did he also count dogs and cats in his "study" lol..........
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Your saying the cats killed horses and then decided to quit doing it as the years went on?
As Feral horse numbers is increase so will cougar kills.
The Sunchild Ochiese Res has a pile of Feral horses on it. My guess is that is the Reservation mentioned.
Your ignorance shines through as you continue to disagree with a study that was done so close to home.
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03-12-2011, 04:00 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 2,163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddave
There are definatly horses in the Ram drainage, I have seen them myself.
I hate it when I agree with Duffy |
Where?
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03-12-2011, 04:47 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nait Hadya
date his research not the kills....LOL.................. reserve ponies,lol did he also count dogs and cats in his "study" lol..........
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You just keep on proving the obvious, a lack of knowledge on the topic.
The study does have the data of kill dates.
Sorry, I can't format the depredation chart here any better than this.
The first two numbers after a species is for Female cougars, (first is summer %, the second is winter % of kills) numbers 3 & 4 are for Males, # 5 & 6 are for Sub adults.
Individual prey types
Beaver 4.67 1.72 9.35 5.26 15.03 4.40
Bighorn sheep 0.54 5.42 1.87 6.14 2.61 12.09
Coyote 2.50 3.20 0.00 0.88 1.96 4.40
Domestic 0.36 0.99 0.00 0.00 0.65 3.30
Elk 4.49 5.17 12.15 14.04 2.61 2.20
Deer 75.40 76.85 25.23 43.86 55.56 37.36
Feral horse 0.54 0.00 13.08 10.53 0.00 0.00
Moose 5.75 0.49 36.45 11.40 13.07 0.00
Porcupine 1.08 0.74 0.00 0.00 5.88 26.37
Other 4.67 5.42 1.87 7.89 2.61 9.89
Condensed categories
Nonungulate 13.29 12.07 11.21 14.04 26.14 48.35
Small ungulate 75.94 82.27 27.10 50.00 58.17 49.45
Large ungulate 10.77 5.67 61.68 35.96 15.69 2.20
The Reserve I mentioned is the Tsuu T'ina Nation. They have over 600 free range horses on the land. Like in the past, some of these horses are broke and branded, simply put out to pasture. Most are wild. By no means are my kill findings here a hard number of horse depredation events on the land. Without out a doubt, I find a very small percentage of all the horses killed by cats each year. The observed cause of death and age of horse are pretty easily to conclude from remaining evidence. There is no doubt that large cougars do kill young horses.
Last edited by walking buffalo; 03-12-2011 at 04:52 PM.
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03-12-2011, 04:50 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Rocky Mountain House
Posts: 5,219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddave
What are you really getting at Nait? I don't think anyone, including yourself, understands what point you are trying to make?
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Agreed!
When ever I think about how to reply to his post I just keep remembering that often heard advice " don't feed the troll"
I reckon if the sun were shining he would not like it and if it were raining he would say SRD caused it.
__________________
Robin,
Archery Sept. 1 - Oct. 31 Muzzleloader and Crossbow Oct. 1 - Oct. 31 Rifle Nov. 25 - Nov. 30
...And HIS kingdom shall have no end...
Last edited by duffy4; 03-12-2011 at 04:55 PM.
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03-12-2011, 06:55 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: rocky Mountain House
Posts: 1,539
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If interested here is a link to Kyle's research. It was initiated in 2004, and research finnished in 2008.
http://www.cougarnet.org/Assets/S09north.pdf
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03-12-2011, 07:41 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: South West Alberta
Posts: 814
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Cattle grazing is not as detrimental to the elk population as horses are. The cows are removed from the forestry early in the fall. On occasion I have seen some over grazing by cattle in the forestry areas. More often than not cattle seem to concentrate where the grass is more abundant in the bottom of valleys around streams in the summer. On the other hand, Feral horses inhabit the forestry areas year round and often end up competing with elk for feed that is not covered by snow high up on windswept open hillsides. Often valley bottoms have deep crusted snow that is hard to get at by any animal. It takes more food to sustain a horse through the winter than it does a elk. I prefer to have more elk and the horses gone.
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03-12-2011, 07:44 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rimbey
Posts: 5,908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 59whiskers
It takes more food to sustain a horse through the winter than it does a elk. I prefer to have more elk and the horses gone.
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So in your honest opinion elk numbers are dropping in the west because of the horses?
SG
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03-12-2011, 08:05 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepguide
So in your honest opinion elk numbers are dropping in the west because of the horses?
SG
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we know SG you blame it all on wolves, but the reality is that they are not the only ones to blame....
and those horses are like bedbugs and rats, not native from alberta and deserved to be exterminated....
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03-12-2011, 08:26 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st99
we know SG you blame it all on wolves, but the reality is that they are not the only ones to blame....
and those horses are like bedbugs and rats, not native from alberta and deserved to be exterminated....
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It is astounding when you look at the amount of feed in pounds they eat everyday. There just is no way that can't be having an impact.
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