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  #151  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by nekred View Post
Exactly.... it incorporates a trigger of some sort... whether it is triggered by finger pressure, thumb pressure, or back pressure, or rotational pressure.
Every weapon that launches a projectile (even your arm tossing a spear) has a "trigger of some sort"

The distinction is the bow needs to be drawn by muscle power and HELD BY MUSCLE POWER....that is the largest difference, between it and a crossbow if anyone disagrees that is a difference then they just want to argue.

LC
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  #152  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:38 AM
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Would it not be easier and make more sense to say we can harvest xnumber of deer from this area so we are allotting that number of tags. Use your chosen method of hunting to harvest it or combination of. A deer killed by a arrow or bullet is dead either way. Tag filled - done hunting for the year.
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  #153  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Allocation of tags to the archery season would need to increase....and those tags have to come from somewhere.

LC
So what about the areas that are already on draw for archery and general season?
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  #154  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Chevy 454 View Post
Would it not be easier and make more sense to say we can harvest xnumber of deer from this area so we are allotting that number of tags. Use your chosen method of hunting to harvest it or combination of. A deer killed by a arrow or bullet is dead either way. Tag filled - done hunting for the year.
Yep!
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  #155  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Chevy 454 View Post
Would it not be easier and make more sense to say we can harvest xnumber of deer from this area so we are allotting that number of tags. Use your chosen method of hunting to harvest it or combination of. A deer killed by a arrow or bullet is dead either way. Tag filled - done hunting for the year.
No because tags are allocated partially based on success rate....that's why there are different seasons now.

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  #156  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Allocation of tags to the archery season would need to increase....and those tags have to come from somewhere.

LC
Yes, but with a likely success rate of 20 - 25% for strings vs 50 -75% for firearms (muleys, moose, antelope),,, split season / draws would actually increase overall numbers of tags given out to achieve harvest objectives while reducing the number of applicants in the general rifle season pool.
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  #157  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:43 AM
nekred nekred is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Allocation of tags to the archery season would need to increase....and those tags have to come from somewhere.

LC
Yes....what would really happen is with game management counts being based on hunter effort in conjunction with reported hunting rates and 20+ year old game counts which is what is used to extrapolate probable inventory of animals in an area and thus extrapolate probable harvest rate for hopeful sustainable..... they would look at increased hunter effort in the bow hunting season and thus if instead of allocating 80 tags for the area with 50% probability of success they would issue 40 tags to allow for 100% probability of success until they had better idea of harvest rate.

because of sever lack of funding wildlife managers are dealing with old inventory data and skewed harvest and hunter effort data. they are doing the best they can with what they have but it really is a major cf shortfall
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  #158  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:43 AM
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Really? I really don't think that allowing crossbows in the archery season is going to have as much as 30% more people participating in the archery season. I also don't see why they would have to split the draw. If the area needs to be put on draw, put it on draw and hunt whatever season you want with what ever weapon you want. If your success rate is low with the weapon you choose, so be it.
According to Esrd, archery harvests have already eclipsed the 15% allowable harvest....it is also propsed to re establish a new archery harvest% , especially because the popularity and increase of archery hunters. Inclusion of xguns would only add to that number.

The split draw strategy, has already been tabled.....and was even in the latest public survey... it becomes elementary math after that.

Everytime you gain something, you have to lose somewhere....
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  #159  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:46 AM
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there are many side effects that would not be understood until after it happens but it is pretty hard to turn the clock back....

Sunday hunting for example.... It did not just add an other day of hunting in some areas, it increased hunter numbers as well... hunters going out for an extended weekend now do not have to travel as far so they hunt in areas closer to home and thus that area is impacted a lot more than expected....

what other side effects there might be .... no one knows....
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  #160  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by pottymouth View Post
According to Esrd, archery harvests have already eclipsed the 15% allowable harvest....it is also propsed to re establish a new archery harvest% , especially because the popularity and increase of archery hunters. Inclusion of xguns would only add to that number.

The split draw strategy, has already been tabled.....and was even in the latest public survey... it becomes elementary math after that.

Everytime you gain something, you have to lose somewhere....
That is exactly why I posted this thread! I answered NO, who else did?
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  #161  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by pottymouth View Post
According to Esrd, archery harvests have already eclipsed the 15% allowable harvest....it is also propsed to re establish a new archery harvest% , especially because the popularity and increase of archery hunters. Inclusion of xguns would only add to that number.

The split draw strategy, has already been tabled.....and was even in the latest public survey... it becomes elementary math after that.

Everytime you gain something, you have to lose somewhere....
From the inception of time you have repeatedly coined your own/ABA term of xguns. You know it offends those that use a crossbow so why do you enter these discussions with the intent of razzing people? A crossbow is no more a gun than a compound is for an incompetent bow hunter when comparing to a trad.
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  #162  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:53 AM
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That is exactly why I posted this thread! I answered NO, who else did?
But what did you answer for adding xguns? If you said yes...then your no in split season draws, really has no merit....you wont get both....i hope that makes sense....you needed to say no to xguns too....
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  #163  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:54 AM
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That is exactly why I posted this thread! I answered NO, who else did?
Seems to me rifle hunters are willing to give up tags to allow crossbows in archery season. Seems most bow guys arent. So whats your point? I have no doubt it will change. Are we going to see the ABA guys on here take their ball and go home to pout when it does happen?
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  #164  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:06 AM
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That is exactly why I posted this thread! I answered NO, who else did?
I said yes and no to the split draws. Draws should be for what ever season or weapon one chooses. No user group should have additional opportunity because of the success rate of there weapon.
I don't see the problem with everybody having the same oppotunity.
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  #165  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
No because tags are allocated partially based on success rate....that's why there are different seasons now.

LC
I think they could allocate tags for the year using rifle success rates only, forget the tag splitting. All of the guys I know that bow hunt also rifle hunt, so if they don't get a deer in archery season, they will try to fill it in rifle season. I used to do both but have not took time for archery in several years now.
If there are slightly less deer harvested because some people are strictly bow hunters, then more deer for next year. Not a bad thing.
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  #166  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:09 AM
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My point has been consistent, to me XGUNS should not be included in Archery Season. I have no problem including XGUN hunting in Rifle Season, and I hunt ALL SEASONS!
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  #167  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by edmhunter View Post
My point has been consistent, to me XGUNS should not be included in Archery Season. I have no problem including XGUN hunting in Rifle Season, and I hunt ALL SEASONS!
Lol good god man. Not only do you practice 100 yard shots on geese, you go out of your way to give the gears to those same guys in your hunting fraternity. Kudos on the tactics lol
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  #168  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:13 AM
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Lol good god man. Not only do you practice 100 yard shots on geese, you go out of your way to give the gears to those same guys in your hunting fraternity. Kudos on the tactics lol
Dont believe that I can shoot gees at the range? Happy to let you take me with you on a goos hunt and I will be happy to shoot your limit for you lol
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  #169  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:13 AM
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And pottymouth i must add, i respect you as a hunter. Just dont get why the backlash towards guys that are forces to use a crossbow
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  #170  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:14 AM
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Dont believe that I can shoot gees at the range? Happy to let you take me with you on a goos hunt and I will be happy to shoot your limit for you lol
Lol never said you couldnt. What i was doing was questioning the ethics of an intentional 100 yard shot is all. And thanks, i do fine for myself in the field
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  #171  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Chevy 454 View Post
I think they could allocate tags for the year using rifle success rates only, forget the tag splitting. All of the guys I know that bow hunt also rifle hunt, so if they don't get a deer in archery season, they will try to fill it in rifle season. I used to do both but have not took time for archery in several years now.
If there are slightly less deer harvested because some people are strictly bow hunters, then more deer for next year. Not a bad thing.
This isn't going to happen....it's not even a consideration. The seasons are going to be split.

The guys you know who do both will have to choose one draw code or the other.

Not all the guys I know who bow hunt also rifle hunt.

There is going to be no "fall back" if you are unsuccessful in the archery season, your time is up and your draw is done.

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  #172  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:23 AM
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Lol never said you couldnt. What i was doing was questioning the ethics of an intentional 100 yard shot is all. And thanks, i do fine for myself in the field
It's just as ethical as taking 500 yard shots on big game with a Rifle and 80 yard shots with a bow, but only if you know how to shoot, I do. Any hoooooooooooooo wildside2014, this post is not about ethical shooting or who can shoot at what distance. so please leave the personal attacks out of it. May I remind you that the title of this thread is: Is Hunting with a Crossbow, really bowhunting?

I knew it would come to this, but I am happy I posed the question anyway, seems to be of interest to many!
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  #173  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by edmhunter View Post
It's just as ethical as taking 500 yard shots on big game with a Rifle and 80 yard shots with a bow, but only if you know how to shoot, I do. Any hoooooooooooooo wildside2014, this post is not about ethical shooting or who can shoot at what distance. so please leave the personal attacks out of it. May I remind you that the title of this thread is: Is Hunting with a Crossbow, really bowhunting?

I knew it would come to this, but I am happy I posed the question anyway, seems to be of interest to many!
Lol no, no its not. But you are right. Moving along. Back on topic
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  #174  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:37 AM
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Lol no, no its not. But you are right. Moving along. Back on topic
Thank you!
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  #175  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:37 AM
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And pottymouth i must add, i respect you as a hunter. Just dont get why the backlash towards guys that are forces to use a crossbow
If guys actually have a "legitimate" injury preventing them from pulling a bow....i have no problems with it. If guys use them in general season...i have no problems with it. And tj ose who qualify, never had a problem.

I know my bowhunting , has shelf life...and i prepare everyday for it.
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  #176  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:39 AM
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If guys actually have a "legitimate" injury preventing them from pulling a bow....i have no problems with it. If guys use them in general season...i have no problems with it. I have shoulder, wrist and problems...ill bow hunt until i can...once i cant, ill go back to rifle...i know my career has a shelf life.....its like my grampa, who cant understand why we wont let him drive at 93
Maybe thats the actual differentiator? You feel like theres a shelf life, i dont think there should be.
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  #177  
Old 11-06-2014, 01:47 PM
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I can't draw a bow or cock a crossbow so I want to use an arrow gun. It should be legal because it uses arrows.



http://www.swivelmachine.com/html/rimfire.htm





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The recommendation of using blank firing rimfire rifles to fire arrows for big game is new. And they launch them at faster speeds than even the most sophisticated bows built today, yet with far more accuracy than the average archer could ever hope to achieve.



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Swivel Machine Works has a proven background in air powered guns that fire arrows. J. I. Galan reviewed their air powered Series 8 Airrow in Guns magazine back in July of l989 and their model 8S1P Stealth in Gun Digest 1993. In the archery industry Swivel Machine Works is known as the manufacturer of the world’s fastest and most accurate archery products. The people at Swivel Machine Works decided to search for an alternative means of launching arrows from a shoulder fired device, and the blank firing rifle became one solution.

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The Airrow blanks used in these rifles are available in two different power levels and each power level has its own color code for easy identification. Power Level 5 is colored Red and demonstrates a nominal muzzle velocity of 335 fps with the 2512 arrow, while Power Level 6 is color coded Purple and has an approximate muzzle velocity of 435 fps with the same arrow. The resulting muzzle energies are 76 and 128 foot pounds respectively.


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Additionally the Ruger 10/22 has a handy little loading device that positions the blank cartridge perfectly in the barrel’s chamber.

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One advantage of a rimfire rifle that uses blanks to launch an arrow is reduced noise. Current noise levels are approximately 1/2 that of the standard .22 caliber ammunition. Many of these rifles are used in areas where deer are heavily over populated to the point that they cause damage to landscape shrubbery, agricultural crops, and multiple life threatening collisions with automobiles. Unlike a bullet, the arrow has a much shorter range and a correspondingly much greater safety factor.



• Airrow’s New Archery Barrel
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Tel. (203) 270-6343



The greatest advantage, however, is the increase in accuracy for the average shooter. Granted, highly trained, expert archers can do amazing things with a compound bow; however, AIRROW rifles can take the average person in a bench rest position and fire five arrows within a one-inch group at 50 yards. Airrow’s new archery barrel is capable of firing all Cap-Chur type tranquilizer syringes; making this new product a unique game management tool. Airrow’s new system is a piece of precision archery equipment, but it is not intended by its manufacturer to supplant conventional archery equipment. It has always been Airrow’s intent that their product would be classified as a firearm. Airrow products are currently legal in many U.S. states and Canadian Provinces for hunting during the rifle seasons. “Airrow’s barrel provides an efficient means of launching arrows at twice normal velocity, with twice the expected accuracy.” Airrow’s new archery and tranquilizer system can be used as a game management tool effectively and accurately without the normal years of training and practice.

Airrow archery barrels are available for current owners of both Ruger models 10/22 and 77/22.
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For more information, or to order, call: 203.270.6343
or e-mail us at:
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  #178  
Old 11-06-2014, 01:49 PM
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Exactly Petew....I have posted about that 10/22 drop in arrow barrel before too....

LC
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  #179  
Old 11-06-2014, 03:33 PM
Mistagin Mistagin is offline
 
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Now that's a real arrow gun (or x-gun)! Cool. I'd like one. I've even got the 10/22 already. I wonder what effective range it would have - 60,70, maybe 80 yards?

But it doesn't have a bow or string on it to propel the arrow, so it won't fit any sort of archery category.

And it propels the arrow (I don't see a picture of one though) with a cartridge - just like a gun. It kinda reminds me more of a modern inline blackpowder rifle. It just shoots an arrow instead of a ball or bullet.
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  #180  
Old 11-06-2014, 03:44 PM
nekred nekred is offline
 
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In the end back to original question....

depends on jurisdiction.... whether use of a draw lock or not fits the jurisdictions definition of "bow-hunting"

Best definition I have heard of bow-hunting is getting as close as you can to your quarry and placing an arrow in its vitals....

or depends on English...

there is longbow hunting, recurve bow hunting, compound bow hunting and crossbow hunting...etc... if you decide to just focus on the commonalities then yes they all would be bow hunting....
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