Albertal Wolf Management

[wolfkiller]

Mauled 3 for every one killed, do you think them cattle that were mauled healed up and carried on, good god give your head a shake. The revised plan was released to the public in December 1991. Five major wolf management goals were identified, as follows:

1. Maintain a viable provincial wolf population.
2. Allocate annual wolf harvest.
3. Minimize property damage from wolves.
4. Increase knowledge of wolves.
5. Manage wolves to enhance other wildlife.

[wolfkiller]

Heres a few pictures Browning Jim, need more proof that they kill and dont eat all of it sometimes, or let me guess these animals were chewed on by coyotes. See what a MAULED cow looks like now. But i guess a few shots of long acting penicillin and that calf will be fine.

[Outfitter2]

Forgive my ignorance on the subject , but if cattlemen are in an area that the wolf predation is high , why do they not build a few bait piles and man them for awhile and thin out some wolves/coyotes or if they are not collecting insurance and getting paid for the dead cows , it may be practical to hire a couple cheap shooters to man them for the ranchers ?

If you have chickens on the farm and a weasel moves in , you trap the critter , why not wolves. Not real hard , just time consuming.

[wolfkiller]

We do run baits and have for alot of years, go to page 7 and find the thread "Some of my wolf pics", im not here complaining about the wolves, as we keep them thinned out in our area, but its year after year and your not gonna control the wolf population by doing a one year aerial gunning or poisoning. This is why the F&W try and keep there wolf management plans quiet because there are too many ppl who dont think we have a wolf problem in a lot of areas. Ever wonder why they dont tell ppl when there using strychnine, but that has changed as they are no longer allowed poison, i guess its cheaper to fly a chopper and aerial gun them. All you wolf lovers tax dollars going for chopper fuel, i love it.

[BrownBear416]

I have never seen a pack even close to this in Alberta but can you imagine the killing machine it is?

Over 20 in a pack.Pic was taken in Jackson Hole Wy.

[Rantastic]

Thats a crazy photo! Rare in deed and what a day to have your autoloading 300win mag with you!

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Yes, bounty is a red flag catchword, which is why I suggested that no bounty is required, simply offer to buy the pelts for X dollars. This would be a financial aid program for an industry in difficult times. The AFGA could set up a chairman and committee for the Wolf Pelt Acquisition Program to determine the value of pelts from various geographic areas of the province. The trappers would sell direct to AFGA instead of through auction. AFGA could sell tanned wolf pelts through the online store. Pelts would be identified with the WMU of origin and hunters could assist the program by buying a wolf pelt from their favorite area. Of course any interested parties who wanted to donate funds to the acquisition program would be welcomed along with their input in determining where pelts of the most value could be found.

This is an idea worth pursuing.

Private groups can stay within Alberta law and promote a program for wolf management. The AB Gov has stated repeatedly it would prefer if wolf poulations were controlled through trapper/hunter harvest. This is a way for them to stay at arms length from the spotlight, while still being able to provide information to those groups with concerns. Remember the Alberta Advantage, private initiative, less govt. involvement.

In B.C., groups are paying trappers for the skull of wolves w/in specified areas. The trapper gets paid $250-500 for proof of kill, and still is able to earn money from the hide. Double incentive.

Are other parts of a wolf legal to sell by a trapper and/or a hunter in Alberta?

Please post your opinions/ideas to this concept.

[Vindalbakken]

The only catch I see to the program would be interested parties supplying sufficient monies to fund it - an ACA grant proposal could probably help with that, and the AFGA would need to obtain a Fur Buyers Permit. They probably already have enough staff in the office to handle the added paperwork of a couple of hundred wolf purchase transactions through their "store".

The reselling of tanned hides legitimizes the original purchase.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

The only catch I see to the program would be interested parties supplying sufficient monies to fund it - an ACA grant proposal could probably help with that, and the AFGA would need to obtain a Fur Buyers Permit. They probably already have enough staff in the office to handle the added paperwork of a couple of hundred wolf purchase transactions through their "store".

The reselling of tanned hides legitimizes the original purchase.

How about asking AWA for some money?

ACA
ABA
HFTF
APOS
WSF
ABP - and other livestock associations
Forestry Companies
Energy Companies
Individual sponsors
ASRD - through RAMP .. they can get the money, no problem

Other sponsors? Post them up
Any educated guesstimates on a budget reguired?

[Vindalbakken]

I like the idea of a graduated purchase price depending on location. An assessment committee with input from SRD could identify the biggest problem areas where wolves have been determined to be a major issue in specific herds. Pricing in those areas would be at a level that would make it very hard for the trappers operating in those areas to ignore - $500/pelt?. In areas of less concern pelts could be bought for a base price of $200? and graduated in between. Since hunters are allowed to sell wolf pelts on the open market already it would be hard to justify excluding them altogether so paying out the base price to them for pelts would be reasonable. What is the target reduction in wolves needed? Are there SRD #'s available to extrapolate a target budget number?

Pelts could be tanned and tagged with WMU of origin so hunters/concerned citizens could buy a pelt to support the program in their favorite area. Current market value on a wolf hide from Halford is $800. That should about cover the $500 purchase, $130 tanning and administrative costs.

[Rantastic]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

I like the idea of a graduated purchase price depending on location. An assessment committee with input from SRD could identify the biggest problem areas where wolves have been determined to be a major issue in specific herds. Pricing in those areas would be at a level that would make it very hard for the trappers operating in those areas to ignore - $500/pelt?. In areas of less concern pelts could be bought for a base price of $200? and graduated in between. Since hunters are allowed to sell wolf pelts on the open market already it would be hard to justify excluding them altogether so paying out the base price to them for pelts would be reasonable. What is the target reduction in wolves needed? Are there SRD #'s available to extrapolate a target budget number?

Pelts could be tanned and tagged with WMU of origin so hunters/concerned citizens could buy a pelt to support the program in their favorite area. Current market value on a wolf hide from Halford is $800. That should about cover the $500 purchase, $130 tanning and administrative costs.

+1

I like this idea more and more as it picks up speed. Just the kind of incentive program that sounds like it would work/help the problem. Hides bought for the 2-500 could be sold to fundraisers and banquets and organizations and raffled and sold off to non hunters and hunters alike.

[sheepguide]

http://www.ualberta.ca/~fschmieg/Car...st%2031(2).PDF

Some wolf info and proof of the size of some Alberta packs.

[walking buffalo]

SG, Did you google that?

Thanks

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

SG, Did you google that?

Thanks

It was actually PM'ed to me.

[Jager]

Well chiming in here a little late, but Lone Wolf you are right. Deer populations go up and so do wolf populations. But when the deer, moose and elk are at levels that can't sustain the pack anymore do you think that they just go to the bush and die? Then you will see a reduction in your cattle and your neighbours cattle, horses and what ever else they can eat.

And I don't disagree that they are great creatures.........but none of us here are talking about erasing them from Alberta, numbers just need to be adjusted. I get out and do my part, haven't shot any yet, but just like everyone else see the sign and know that they are in the area.

Best of luck to all, we all should have wolves on our walls!!!

[bugleemin]

Hey Guys here are a few web pages to check out. They are American sites targeting the problem in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming.......But we can learn from them as well. It will give you a good Idea as to what is happening in Alberta too.

huntwolves.com
saveelk.com

The important thing here is we keep working towards a solution for Alberta before it is too late.

[thunderjet]

Outfitter 2 I agree with you 100 percent. I have seen the same in the past, and the only kills I have not seen fully consumed are the ones the wolves were scared off of. I also no some on here have whined in the past that the deer and elk where too thick and getting into their hay and they should all be shot.....farmers, they are a hard group to please....

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Outfitter2

Forgive my ignorance on the subject , but if cattlemen are in an area that the wolf predation is high , why do they not build a few bait piles and man them for awhile and thin out some wolves/coyotes or if they are not collecting insurance and getting paid for the dead cows , it may be practical to hire a couple cheap shooters to man them for the ranchers ?

If you have chickens on the farm and a weasel moves in , you trap the critter , why not wolves. Not real hard , just time consuming.

This type of situation (cattle depradation) could be handled by an AFGA run program as Vindalbakken has described. Rancher notifies AFGA of problem (Wolf hotline ?), hunter/trapper responds, and is compensated by program funds for harvest. And ACA will have to spend less hunting license dollars on predation compensaton program.

IMO the ranching community would support this too.

[NCC]

In the past couple of years I have a had a heifer chewed from her tail to her udder by wolves that they then left to die. I had a day old calf bit once over it's backbone and into it's guts and left dead but uneaten, and had a 200 pound calf with both hips ripped open but not killed. Between my nieghbor and I, we lost 30 calves one summer. I might not check my cows as often as I should but my neighbor almost lives with his. If you believe that wolves only eat lemmings and old sick animals you've been reading too many Farley Mowat novels. They eat mostly young animals and pregnant females in the spring that are heavy in calf and cannot escape easily.

I read a book written by Jim Rearden about a government trapper from Alaska named Frank Glaser. He observed wolves killing an entire band of dall sheep they caught in deep snow and of killing several caribou at once and moving off before consuming any of them. Maybe the guy was full of BS but I believed him. Mr. Glaser also stated that wolves hunt mostly at night, which makes it pretty tough for a rancher to defend his herd. We do our best (shot/snared 14 on our land in the past 3 years) to keep the numbers down.

I realize that wolves are just being wolves and as a top predator, they kill what they can. We can let nature run it's course, and when most of the ungulates are gone, wolf populations will subside. We could also try and keep the wolf numbers down which will help the ungulates and in the long term, stabilize the wolf numbers as well.

[thunderjet]

NCC,
I am sure there is merit to his accounts, I have personally not encountered this. Unless like I said if they were scared off a kill. Used to run into them snowmobiling on the Simonette where they have killed an elk on the river and if we returned the next day we found that the wolves never came back. I worked in an area for many years and saw, killed many of them. They would come through about every 2 weeks, kill a moose, eat it by morning and moving on. I am sure not on here saying do or dont kill wolves...knock yourself out dude. What I am ****ed about is that a young guy posts pics from a trail cam and puts up with a bunch of spew from dorks cause he doesnt want to shoot them. Well it's his right to do either!

[bugleemin]

Everyone who is on this thread who thinks wolves kill just for food and eat everything they kill need to do more research!!! A wolf will kill 2 elk per month for food and another 2 for fun that is per wolf. Wolves like to kill pregnant animals and eat only the fetus.

[sheepguide]

I think there are a few wolves that kill for fun but as far as knowing numbers thats a pretty tough guess. You say 2 for every 2 eaten? How do we know why they arent eaten? Maybe they get spooked, maybe it was for pleasure, maybe they are just opertunistic and if the oppertunity is there they take it and then arent hungry enough to eat it. Personaly most wolf kills I see in a year in the areas I travel are cleaned up. When I hunted cats lots with a buddy I saw more waste due to cats in the winter. And many cat kills were cleaned up by wolves.
To say 50% of wolf kills are sport to me is reaching a little high.
4 killed elk per wolf per month ? So your saing the pack(20 wolves) that brown bear posted eats 80 elk a month? roughly 960 a year? no wonder there are no elk in our mountains!
JMPO
SG

[ganderblaster]

I think Vin has a terrific idea!

Originally Posted by primosprostaff

Everyone who is on this thread who thinks wolves kill just for food and eat everything they kill need to do more research!!! A wolf will kill 2 elk per month for food and another 2 for fun that is per wolf. Wolves like to kill pregnant animals and eat only the fetus.

I'd like to see the research on that one. As far as I know, humans are the only ones that kill for "fun"..... Does this have anything to do with a parrot

Pretty tough living out there for a pack of wolves. I'm guessing nothing goes to waste.

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'd like to see the research on that one. As far as I know, humans are the only ones that kill for "fun".....

Have you ever owned a house cat?

I believe wolves are opportunistic predators, they can't count/add/multiply nor estimate consumption requirements. They will kill when the killing is handy, then eat what they need. If they catch a herd of yarded deer I doubt the lead wolf will estimate how many the pack will need to eat and call the spree off when the requisite number is reached.

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by ganderblaster

I think Vin has a terrific idea!

How do we get it rolling?

[ganderblaster]

Or watched a weasel in a chicken barn? Should I assume most of your comments have more to do with who you are replying too then what the topic is SH? I dunno how to get it going Vin maybe ask Rob doesn't he trap? He definitely should know a lot of goverment employees

[fish-man]

This is probably a tad simplistic, but I don't quite see the issue in wolved eating deer, moose and elk... won't the number balance themselves out over time? Less food = less wolves. National parks like Jasper and Banff don't have wolf control as far as I know, but the deer, elk and moose populations manage to keep going.

As far as wolves eating livestock; now I concur that's a problem.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Have you ever owned a house cat?

I believe wolves are opportunistic predators, they can't count/add/multiply nor estimate consumption requirements. They will kill when the killing is handy, then eat what they need. If they catch a herd of yarded deer I doubt the lead wolf will estimate how many the pack will need to eat and call the spree off when the requisite number is reached.

I beleive there is alot of truth to this!!!

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

I believe wolves are opportunistic predators, they can't count/add/multiply nor estimate consumption requirements. They will kill when the killing is handy, then eat what they need. If they catch a herd of yarded deer I doubt the lead wolf will estimate how many the pack will need to eat and call the spree off when the requisite number is reached.

That hardly equates to killing for "fun" though does it?

That and I highly doubt that a pack of wolves could kill more than one or two deer in one "spree". I'm pretty sure the deer would run away. As pack hunters, wolves typically target a single animal and make a kill. I've watched numerous wolves make kills over the years and despite hundreds of animals being around, they targeted a single animal and made a kill. I guess they didn't see the "fun" in going after the others.