New regs are out. Can keep a walleye and pike in Alberta again

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by anything_but_fish

Counterpoint: the reason the walleye are all the same size is because when one gets big enough to eat it someone plucks it up out of the lake (myself included). That's not rocket science, its fisheries science.

You keep using words that have ambiguous meanings. Balance, health, etc. Define these terms explicitly, otherwise the assumptions of what you think is good/bad/ugly are unassailable and you're just spewing buzzwords with the rest of the geezers.

You don't have to apologize for calling me stupid, especially when you actually think that to be the case.

I for example feel that if leather were logic, you wouldn't have enough to saddle the back of a small walleye.

In most of the lakes I’m referencing walleye were introduced, by the million, over the next number of years the number and quality of other species declined or collapsed while the millions of walleye which were protected stunted. Perhaps one of the healthiest fishery over the years has been travers, tons of walleye with good numbers of whitefish and pike and until a couple years ago you were allowed to keep a walleye. On the other hand go to mcgregor and you can pull in a bucket full of walleye which you let go and the whitefish and pike numbers are in hard decline, haven’t even seen a perch there for years one used to go ice fishing there and pull out a bunch of whites and pike were more numerous and bigger. I’m not arguing for a free for all but skewing the biology of a lake with stocking and then letting them wreck havoc on what’s there destroys everything else. I’m not arguing for a return to the good old days when you could keep whatever you caught and you caught a ton, I know thats not realistic in today’s Alberta with a lot more people but if you want a healthy fishery with more species of fish than walleye there needs to be some retention of them

[WayneChristie]

Originally Posted by calgarygringo

We have some old pics somewhere of wifes grandad down south with pike on a rope tied on each end of a fence. Her grandma used to pickle them and they always had fish. Funny this place still has a pretty good pike population 50 or probably more years later. Wayne...you and I met at this lake one spring when you had your trailer parked at the end of the road on the side of lake. I thought we were all Lost. Still go down in spring if it thaws before things get going elsewhere.

yah I may be there tomorrow, been wandering around breathing sunshine all weekend. did fish one for a bit but the mudpuppies must have been elsewhere

[Brandonkop]

Originally Posted by anything_but_fish

The funny thing is this idea of balance in the first place. Albertans seem to be the only people arguing walleye-pike-perch eat each other out of house and home. No one makes these arguments in any other jurisdiction in north america...which is very bizarre given they also have pike-walleye-perch fisheries.

You only ever see these arguments when people want to kill more fish, and invariably people blame anything but themselves for the demise of the fish they harvest the snot out of. Seems like cognitive dissonance--what if anything would get folks to change their minds? We never think that we might be the problem, which is alarming.

Let the great harvesting and stocking experiment begin, but I'll be over here saying I "toe da so" when you tank a fishery with that logic. And if I'm wrong, I'll eat crow and apparently some more shore lunch.

You sure make some big claims for someone who seems to have very little reading time under their belt. Not sure you have the ability to say, "No one makes these arguments in any other jurisdiction in north america."

For a fact I have read management articles from Montana and Washington that consider balancing predator populations with retention. Just read about Montana and Washington mandates and ever changing limits on walleye and retention size of walleye to create healthier populations rather than over populations.

You should know any time you make a blanket statement in life you're wrong. There will always be an exception.

[anything_but_fish]

Funny that you believe there are few books upon my shelf just because I don't agree with you.

First point, there are no native walleye populations in Washington, so not sure where you're going there.

Second, there's a difference between what people claim in fishing magazines/forums whathaveyou vs. what the best available science suggests. I choose to side with science.

For a fact I have read management articles from Montana and Washington that consider balancing predator populations with retention. Just read about Montana and Washington mandates and ever changing limits on walleye and retention size of walleye to create healthier populations rather than over populations.

Even more anecdotes. There is no evidence that harvesting one species to achieve some ill-defined thing like "balance" works in fisheries, particularly when trying to use angler harvest to achieve it. Go to google scholar and take a look for yourself...

Maybe if you're willing to rotenone a population or something it might work, as has been the plan in southern Utah, western United States reservoirs, and a few midwestern reservoirs with bass-bluegill dynamics back in the 70s and 80s.

[Smoky buck]

Anything but fish just curious what management plans and studies have you put into place or worked on?

[anything_but_fish]

I was unaware the value of my argument should be linked to anything other than the cogency of my points.

Why does my status or lack thereof matter for the points I make?

The only thing that matters right now is that you can't back your claims up with published science. I recommend spending an evening scrolling through google scholar and looking for yourself. You don't have to agree with me, but at least you'll have access to scientific information.

[Pikebreath]

Here is a link to a great reference book called "Atlas of Alberta Lakes" which was published in 1990. It has creel data for several lakes (mostly in the Beaver drainage and some lakes in the Athabasca Peace as well) collected during the 1980's which show how poor the fishing really was back then.

http://albertalakes.ualberta.ca/

Here are a couple of creel survey data tables (Wolf and Touchwood)from The Atlas of Alberta Lakes:


1988 Wolf Lake Creel Survey.jpg

1984 - 88 Creel Survey Touchwood Lake.jpg


The walleye catch rate of 0.05 fish per hour in Wolf Lake (1988) means anglers on average angled 20 hours to catch one walleye,,,, or if 20 anglers fished one hour, one of them would catch a walleye!!!

The current state of Alberta fisheries is not perfect,,,, but believe me,, Today's issues of what to do with too many fish is a much better problem to have than what to do about not having enough fish !!!

I certainly still have some questions about current regs on certain lakes,,, but I am willing to give these new regs the chance to hopefully achieve new management objectives beyond fish stock recovery such as increased harvest on some lakes, maintain / increase catch rates on others, improve average size,, and create some quality / trophy fisheries.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by anything_but_fish

I was unaware the value of my argument should be linked to anything other than the cogency of my points.

Why does my status or lack thereof matter for the points I make?

The only thing that matters right now is that you can't back your claims up with published science. I recommend spending an evening scrolling through google scholar and looking for yourself. You don't have to agree with me, but at least you'll have access to scientific information.

It was an honest curiosity is all

[anything_but_fish]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

It was an honest curiosity is all

Also, smoky buck, I thought we were friends after our kiss and make up yesterday a la corona

I guess us self-isolation crazies are back at it. lol.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by anything_but_fish

Also, smoky buck, I thought we were friends after our kiss and make up yesterday a la corona

I guess us self-isolation crazies are back at it. lol.

Nope You can run wild with your arguments. I got no interest in putting together an argument for something I am not getting paid for or does not lead to a end goal of value. The soap box is yours lol

The question was honest curiosity nothing more

[anything_but_fish]

I mean, presumably a good end goal would be you making sure you're not full of it and that your beliefs hold water--there is always room for personal growth.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by anything_but_fish

I mean, presumably a good end goal would be you making sure you're not full of it and that your beliefs hold water--there is always room for personal growth.

You must be bored

[SNAPFisher]

As usual, I think this thread started off okay. 2 pages of posts, now covered under 4 pages of dribble.

Go fishing!

[Smoky buck]

Guilty of getting dragged into it and feeding the fire.

Definitely need to go fishing but need open water to scratch the itch

[Brandonkop]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Guilty of getting dragged into it and feeding the fire.

Definitely need to go fishing but need open water to scratch the itch

I'm going fishing as well. I've seen the changes first hand. Do my own creel studies. I'll be out whacking some walleye in Alberta again once this Coronavirus settles down! Maybe one day we'll be able to catch something besides 100's of 2 pound walleye.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Brandonkop

I'm going fishing as well. I've seen the changes first hand. Do my own creel studies. I'll be out whacking some walleye in Alberta again once this Coronavirus settles down! Maybe one day we'll be able to catch something besides 100's of 2 pound walleye.

Even with the new regs i still won’t target walleye much and I still won’t keep many fish. Ate too many fish years ago and rarely eat it now

But I am pretty excited to go try one of my old early season brown trout spots. It’s been years since I have fished it so hopefully it still holds some good fish

I also designed a new top water pike lure I can’t wait to test. First truly finished batch will be complete late this week or early next week. Also a new count down spy bait design in the final stages and with the extra time with the Covid19 mess who knows what else I come up with

All I know is open water can’t get here soon enough

[walking buffalo]

I'm happy to hear that some of Nature's bounty will be available to us again.

Lots here seem to like researching science.

Look into the concept of "Balance in Nature".

There is no such thing.
I wish that this knowledge was still mandatory before any biologist receives a degree.... current educations are so lacking in common sense.

We can try to influence populations as we desire, but we can Never create a Balance in Nature.

[pikeman06]

Originally Posted by Brandonkop

I'm going fishing as well. I've seen the changes first hand. Do my own creel studies. I'll be out whacking some walleye in Alberta again once this Coronavirus settles down! Maybe one day we'll be able to catch something besides 100's of 2 pound walleye.

Absolutely...see you out there, very excited to see the effects of thinning the "piranhas in the bathtub." Maybe just maybe there's enough perch in the odd lake to have decent perch fishing again. Or at least a diverse healthy fishery. Kudos to the government for the changes.