Any body starting to rethink virus advice.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Flatlandliver

That’s a decent argument but the flaw is asymptotic transmission.

Can you clarify this statement please? Or did you mean "asymptomatic" instead of "asymptotic"?

Thanks.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Flatlandliver

That’s a decent argument but the flaw is asymptotic transmission. You can be walking around feeling good but transmitting the illness. If you then work or socialize in a crowded space that would be problematic. Without a robust testing program both for the virus and antibodies we need to tread lightly. Sweden is a pretty good example of your theory. Italy as well where the population basically ignored the social distancing recommendations in the beginning. The cost was 5 times the death rate. Which may for some people be an acceptable sacrifice but not most Canadians I imagine.
Sounds like Alberta will begin gradually opening in the next couple weeks. My guess is we are in great shape to do that because of the sacrifices we have made by shutting down.

It's not a flaw. Those who are high risk or concerned about contracting the virus are at home and quarantined, and looked after as needs be. By default, anyone out and about getting on with life has made a conscious choice to risk exposure and sickness, based on their own estimation of risk. There is no misunderstanding that way.

Just like you understand there is a risk every time you get in a car, plane, train, cross a street. Those who choose not to take the risk, shouldn't. They should not have the right to veto the choices of those who weigh risks and choose differently.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

It's not a flaw.

I don't understand how this type of transmission can be described as asymptotic. Please elaborate.

Thanks.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Just like you understand there is a risk every time you get in a car, plane, train, cross a street. Those who choose not to take the risk, shouldn't. They should not have the right to veto the choices of those who weigh risks and choose differently.

It's been like that forever with literally everything, but all of a sudden, with this virus, it's my fault if you get sick.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Flatlandliver

It’s not just “you” you are risking

I think Twisted Canuck did a better job than I could of explaining this, but essentially, I'm not risking anyone, they are choosing to put themselves at risk by being out in public and getting on with their lives.

If they don't want to accept that risk, they can stay home.

It's a simple matter of personal choice.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Trochu

It's been like that forever with literally everything, but all of a sudden, with this virus, it's my fault if you get sick.

Not getting into some of the subtleties being expressed here, but I don't think it's your fault as long as you are following "the rules". By that I mean, you should be self-quarantining for a minimum of 14 days if you think you've been exposed to this coronoavirus, wearing a mask in public places, maintaining 2 m distancing, getting tested if you have any doubts or symptoms, and so on. Otherwise, you can just live your life.

It seems to me that this is like expecting you not to drive drunk or go 100 km/hr down a city street. If you hit me under those conditions then it is your fault.

If everyone follows "the rules" then I can make my own decisions as to what I want to do, considering my individual risk factors. My concern is individuals who won't follow "the rules". Then it is their fault, just as much as a dangerous driver is at fault.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by sk270

I don't understand how this type of transmission can be described as asymptotic. Please elaborate.

Thanks.

I didn't use the term, and frankly it's a moot point to my argument. You'll have to ask the fellow who posted it.

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

You asked for a workable solution. I offered one. It protects the vulnerable and provides for them, as well as those who may feel vulnerable.

Again, it's about allowing people to choose, without endangering those who are vulnerable. I do not believe the entire planet needs to go on lockdown for this. If I'm wrong, well sooner or later something was going to kill me anyway. I'm insured and my family is well looked after.

What is your objection to that?

Nowhere did I object to your "solution". I understand that you would like for life to return to normal, you're not alone, we all want that. I simply pointed out that life will not be "normal" in the sense that we've become accustomed to and some people are going to have to come to terms with that. Typically though, personal choices don't only affect the individual, there's usually always collateral damage involved.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Sporty

Nowhere did I object to your "solution". I understand that you would like for life to return to normal, you're not alone, we all want that. I simply pointed out that life will not be "normal" in the sense that we've become accustomed to and some people are going to have to come to terms with that. Typically though, personal choices don't only affect the individual, there's usually always collateral damage involved.

I suspect within a couple years it's all going to be pretty much as it was before, in regards to social interactions. Probably because a vaccine will be developed, or the realization that it's not as super damn deadly as advertised. I don't subscribe to the 'New Normal' theory, it's unnecessary, and people are already going back to the old normal quite rapidly. Look at beaches that opened in California.

As far as recovering economically from all this, that's a different can of worms. Just the debt loading world governments are taking on is staggering. Our resident Idiot in Charge seems to have fresh ideas every day where to burn a few more billions. And the energy sector in Alberta may be a cooked goose too, I surely hope not though. This is where recovery is going to be frightful.

Within two years folks will be going on vacations just like before. Some may still wear masks, but I'd be surprised.

[FallAirFever]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

There's a reason guys like Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, Michael J. Knowles, and even Steven Crowder get so many views. Their speeches are full of fact based opinions and intelligent arguments. Those same qualities are viewed as antagonistic traits and loathed by the left, which makes for great entertainment.
A person could literally watch their videos for days.

I totally agree, I have spent too many nights up late watching these guys destroy leftists. Great entertainment and good ammo for discussions with some of the people I work with...

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

I am 100% on board with this. If you go out and get on with life, you accept the risk and the precautions you need to take along with that risk. That includes the chance that you or someone in your family will contract the virus from someone that is asymptomatic, and the chance that there might not be a respirator available if needed. Let everyone decide for themselves what level of risk they're willing to accept.

Unfortunately, those in the "terrified" camp will never let that happen.

Yup,

"dam the torpedoes full money ahead".

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

I suspect within a couple years it's all going to be pretty much as it was before, in regards to social interactions. Probably because a vaccine will be developed, or the realization that it's not as super damn deadly as advertised. I don't subscribe to the 'New Normal' theory, it's unnecessary, and people are already going back to the old normal quite rapidly. Look at beaches that opened in California.

As far as recovering economically from all this, that's a different can of worms. Just the debt loading world governments are taking on is staggering. Our resident Idiot in Charge seems to have fresh ideas every day where to burn a few more billions. And the energy sector in Alberta may be a cooked goose too, I surely hope not though. This is where recovery is going to be frightful.

Within two years folks will be going on vacations just like before. Some may still wear masks, but I'd be surprised.

I completely agree with pretty much everything you posted. I do believe life will be a different kind of normal moving forward though, big world events like this does change how society does things. This is kind of a good reset for some of the ways we've been living. I think many of us need to learn to live better within our means, spend more time with family rather than working our butts off for material items. Relying less on goods made in China and supporting more Canadian manufacturing, just to name a few. As crappy as this has been, there's also some good that can come out of this and I do believe a lot of people are rethinking on how they lived their lives.

I know this is a touchy subject and I don't mean to downplay the importance of our O&G industry. My husband's life has been devoted to it but, now is the time for Alberta to begin to diversify so we aren't continually caught up in the negative effects of the boom and bust cycle.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

I suspect within a couple years it's all going to be pretty much as it was before, in regards to social interactions. Probably because a vaccine will be developed, or the realization that it's not as super damn deadly as advertised. I don't subscribe to the 'New Normal' theory, it's unnecessary, and people are already going back to the old normal quite rapidly. Look at beaches that opened in California.

As far as recovering economically from all this, that's a different can of worms. Just the debt loading world governments are taking on is staggering. Our resident Idiot in Charge seems to have fresh ideas every day where to burn a few more billions. And the energy sector in Alberta may be a cooked goose too, I surely hope not though. This is where recovery is going to be frightful.

Within two years folks will be going on vacations just like before. Some may still wear masks, but I'd be surprised.

There is going to be some lasting economic damage and also consequences to the government spending for sure. It will interesting to see what the public opinion you will be about the handling of Covid19 after the dust settles

[JD848]

We all have choices go or not go full steam ahead,but there's an other side to that coin .

If you do choose to think it's just a hoax or not worth wasting your life at home that's all good.

If you make this choice do not run to the nearest frontline worker or hospital whining and infecting others,just go back home order some grub and ride it out,if your dying remember you took the plunge .

Stay home and just die by your own hand, you swung that sword so die by that sword and don't be a coward. It's only death ,not fear mongering or anything, do as you please.

Running down and infecting frontline workers who had no say in your decision should be left out of your conscious decisions, you made it so live with it.

Now that's not so hard is it?

JD

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Sporty

I completely agree with pretty much everything you posted. I do believe life will be a different kind of normal moving forward though, big world events like this does change how society does things. This is kind of a good reset for some of the ways we've been living. I think many of us need to learn to live better within our means, spend more time with family rather than working our butts off for material items. Relying less on goods made in China and supporting more Canadian manufacturing, just to name a few. As crappy as this has been, there's also some good that can come out of this and I do believe a lot of people are rethinking on how they lived their lives.

I know this is a touchy subject and I don't mean to downplay the importance of our O&G industry. My husband's life has been devoted to it but, now is the time for Alberta to begin to diversify so we aren't continually caught up in the negative effects of the boom and bust cycle.

Good points, and I agree that reliance on China is going to change. Countries are going to have to start looking to their own manufacturing and supply chain security. That may be the very opportunity Alberta needs to diversify.

Originally Posted by JD848

We all have choices go or not go full steam ahead,but there's an other side to that coin .

If you do choose to think it's just a hoax or not worth wasting your life at home that's all good.

If you make this choice do not run to the nearest frontline worker or hospital whining and infecting others,just go back home order some grub and ride it out,if your dying remember you took the plunge .

Stay home and just die by your own hand, you swung that sword so die by that sword and don't be a coward. It's only death ,not fear mongering or anything, do as you please.

Running down and infecting frontline workers who had no say in your decision should be left out of your conscious decisions, you made it so live with it.

Now that's not so hard is it.

JD

Sure JD, I'm totally ok with that. I'm not one to go to the doctor for every little thing, or even most things I should. If the flu is gonna kill me, I'm fine with that. Pretty dramatic bit of prose on your part, no fear and terror mongering there at all . I'll leave the whining to all those who demand that all the Rules Be Obeyed Because It's For Public Safety.

I'd rather die at home than with a ventilator jammed down me anyway. And it sure will beat the crap out of dying slowly from cancer like my dad, my oma, three uncles, a cousin, and a whole whack of others.

So, did you have fun riding your high horse? Any other rules to live by you want to dictate?

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

I didn't use the term, and frankly it's a moot point to my argument. You'll have to ask the fellow who posted it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymptomatic_carrier

Not moot at all. You could be out in the world seeding the virus without knowing it for weeks.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by sk270

Can you clarify this statement please? Or did you mean "asymptomatic" instead of "asymptotic"?

Thanks.

Asymptomatic. Bad spell checker

[JD848]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Good points, and I agree that reliance on China is going to change. Countries are going to have to start looking to their own manufacturing and supply chain security. That may be the very opportunity Alberta needs to diversify.



Sure JD, I'm totally ok with that. I'm not one to go to the doctor for every little thing, or even most things I should. If the flu is gonna kill me, I'm fine with that. Pretty dramatic bit of prose on your part, no fear and terror mongering there at all .

I'd rather die at home than with a ventilator jammed down me anyway. And it sure will beat the crap out of dying slowly from cancer like my dad, my oma, three uncles, a cousin, and a whole whack of others.

So, did you have fun riding your high horse?

The ones who died in your family never had a choice so bypass that one,your not the only swingen dick who lost loved ones.I never mentioned those who died from things like cancer etc.

I know some have to go to work and have no choice.That's another story.

The ones that party half the night down from my place have a choice along with the ones who think it's hoax.

I am not worried about your ride one bet ,couldn't give rats ass,I am good with it all.

I just worry about those who have no say in the matter which are front line workers, yes my point was a bit strong, but there lives are in danger every moment and some seem to forget this. Has nothing personally to do with you.


JD

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by JD848

We all have choices go or not go full steam ahead,but there's an other side to that coin .

If you do choose to think it's just a hoax or not worth wasting your life at home that's all good.

If you make this choice do not run to the nearest frontline worker or hospital whining and infecting others,just go back home order some grub and ride it out,if your dying remember you took the plunge .

Stay home and just die by your own hand, you swung that sword so die by that sword and don't be a coward. It's only death ,not fear mongering or anything, do as you please.

Running down and infecting frontline workers who had no say in your decision should be left out of your conscious decisions, you made it so live with it.

Now that's not so hard is it?

JD

A little dramatic lol

Not everyone needs medical attention over Covid19, a large portion see minimal symptoms and in most countries it’s a 99% survival rate. Yes it can be lethal and yes it can lead to hospitalization but these are your worst case scenarios not the majority

Most who question the level of precautions don’t believe it’s a hoax but instead look at the numbers and view the steps excessive. Many are seeing long term impact in the future do to the precautions that could exceed what the virus will do

[morinj]

Originally Posted by JD848

We all have choices go or not go full steam ahead,but there's an other side to that coin .

If you do choose to think it's just a hoax or not worth wasting your life at home that's all good.

If you make this choice do not run to the nearest frontline worker or hospital whining and infecting others,just go back home order some grub and ride it out,if your dying remember you took the plunge .

Stay home and just die by your own hand, you swung that sword so die by that sword and don't be a coward. It's only death ,not fear mongering or anything, do as you please.

Running down and infecting frontline workers who had no say in your decision should be left out of your conscious decisions, you made it so live with it.

Now that's not so hard is it?

JD

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the hospitals have been plagued with numerous types of corona virus and other diseases such as STAFF, C-Dif and many many others for a very, very long time, my point here is that health care workers risk disease transmission every day, and get paid very well for it, specially nurses who are the back bone of medical society, regardless if you are a believer or not, they will try their hardest to make you comfortable, and save your life from this dreaded virus, alcoholics and drug addicts are far more a plague on the health care system, then a guy who actually wants to go to work, provide for his family, and his society!

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by JD848

I just worry about those who have no say in the matter which are front line workers, yes my point was a bit strong, but there lives are in danger every moment and some seem to forget this. Has nothing personally to do with you.


JD

They absolutely have a say. And were you worried about them before, virus or not, constantly working with sick people and bodily fluids has it's risk. AIDS, typhoid, influenza, Hepatitis, MRSA, etc. I don't understand why it was perfectly okay and acceptable for health care workers to work with hundreds, if not thousands, of infected patients on an annual basis, but now people are using the "front line workers" argument to rationalize, in part, the current situation. They know the risks, take precautions against those risks, and are compensated, in part, because of said risks.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Flatlandliver

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymptomatic_carrier

Not moot at all. You could be out in the world seeding the virus without knowing it for weeks.

Well, if you are worried about it, stay home, wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, and avoid all social contact.

Now that's not so hard, is it....? To quote an earlier post.

[morinj]

In my opinion, I personally couldn’t consider a person who is willing to risk their health/life a coward for wanting to provide for their families, also our health care system is operated with the very tax dollars earned by the employee, so why would he/she, have to sit at home and die? Just think of the effects that this will have on the health care system when it’s more broke then the provincial government already claims it is.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by JD848

The ones who died in your family never had a choice so bypass that one,your not the only swingen dick who lost loved ones.I never mentioned those who died from things like cancer etc.

I know some have to go to work and have no choice.That's another story.

The ones that party half the night down from my place have a choice along with the ones who think it's hoax.

I am not worried about your ride one bet ,couldn't give rats ass,I am good with it all.

I just worry about those who have no say in the matter which are front line workers, yes my point was a bit strong, but there lives are in danger every moment and some seem to forget this. Has nothing personally to do with you.


JD

I wear really good Sax underwear, so I rarely swing. Just thought I'd clear that up.

And yeah, there are lives in danger every moment. From all the sharp corners and viruses in life. Just like since forever. What's new about that? You want to read about a scary virus, try reading The Stand. 99.9% death rate and everybody got it. Now that's a scary virus, even if it is fiction.

But how much fiction is passing for news today?

I'm not going out of my way to have any contact with people, or expose them to any nasty I might have. I don't really much care for most people (or give a rat's ass about them, as you say) so I tend to avoid them anyway, especially in large groups. Doesn't mean I wish anyone harm (other than maybe my neighbor and JT the idiot child).

You can stop with the dramatics any time JD, nobody posting here is the Covid Ripper, trying to deliberately kill anyone else. You'll just have to trust me.

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

I wear really good Sax underwear, so I rarely swing. Just thought I'd clear that up.

And yeah, there are lives in danger every moment. From all the sharp corners and viruses in life. Just like since forever. What's new about that? You want to read about a scary virus, try reading The Stand. 99.9% death rate and everybody got it. Now that's a scary virus, even if it is fiction.

But how much fiction is passing for news today?

I'm not going out of my way to have any contact with people, or expose them to any nasty I might have. I don't really much care for people (or give a rat's ass about them, as you say) so I tend to avoid them anyway, especially in large groups. Doesn't mean I wish anyone harm (other than maybe my neighbor and JT the idiot child).

You can stop with the dramatics any time JD, nobody on his is the Covid Ripper, trying to deliberately kill anyone else. You'll just have to trust me.

He secretly cares about the OIlers...... he'll never admit it though.

[JD848]

Originally Posted by morinj

In my opinion, I personally couldn’t consider a person who is willing to risk their health/life a coward for wanting to provide for their families, also our health care system is operated with the very tax dollars earned by the employee, so why would he/she, have to sit at home and die? Just think of the effects that this will have on the health care system when it’s more broke then the provincial government already claims it is.

Every person who is out there making things happen while those sit at home are FRONTLINE WORKERS,i am talking about those who don't care for any of those people.


JD

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

He secretly cares about the OIlers...... he'll never admit it though.

They all have the dose anyway I heard, but only the Covid-16, nothing too heavy.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Trochu

They absolutely have a say. And were you worried about them before, virus or not, constantly working with sick people and bodily fluids has it's risk. AIDS, typhoid, influenza, Hepatitis, MRSA, etc. I don't understand why it was perfectly okay and acceptable for health care workers to work with hundreds, if not thousands, of infected patients on an annual basis, but now people are using the "front line workers" argument to rationalize, in part, the current situation. They know the risks, take precautions against those risks, and are compensated, in part, because of said risks.

X2.

It's that kind of histrionics that is going to make it so hard to get started on the path back to normal.

[morinj]

Originally Posted by JD848

Every person who is out there making things happen while those sit at home are FRONTLINE WORKERS,i am talking about those who don't care for any of those people.


JD

Point being? I’m talking about people who wanna go back to work, does ending up with this virus, requiring medical attention render you a coward because you have to seek the medical attention that you are entitled too (yes or no) or are you saying that you should decline your right to medical care because you decide to contribute to society, contributing the very dollar that is paying for medical care?(yes/no)

[JD848]

Originally Posted by morinj

Point being? I’m talking about people who wanna go back to work, does ending up with this virus, requiring medical attention render you a coward because you have to seek the medical attention that you are entitled too (yes or no) or are you saying that you should decline your right to medical care because you decide to contribute to society, contributing the very dollar that is paying for medical care?(yes/no)

If your trying to go to work then your a frontline worker,then I said in post 168 that it's another story for those who need to go back to work.

OVER and out.

JD