best all around hunting rifle

[elkhunter11]

It is always better to enter a game field over-gunned than under-gunned.

And who decides what is under gunned,and what is over gunned?

Copyright 1946

In other words,the premium hunting bullets that we now have available weren't even developed yet.As such,a premium bullet can make a cartridge thought to be inadequate for a given application in 1946,into a cartridge that is considered more than adequate for that same application today.

[303carbine]

Originally Posted by Flyster

I'm sure this question has been asked many times but can't seem to find a thread using the search. After postponing it for years I finally got my PAL when my dad gave me the .22 that we used to shoot when I was kid. I've done a bit of bowhunting over the years but now that I have my PAL I'm looking at buying a rifle. I'm sure there are some varied opinions but if I was going to buy just one rifle what is the best calibre for hunting deer, elk, and moose in Alberta?

Ryan

Pick up a good bolt rifle in 30-06, I like irons on a rifle in case your scope gets bumped.

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by equanuck

If this works, the pic with my brother in it is a deer found dead from night hunters. Deer with all the horns is his 215" NT WT.

Wow Great Bucks thanx for posting!!!

[imhere]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And who decides what is under gunned,and what is over gunned?



In other words,the premium hunting bullets that we now have available weren't even developed yet.As such,a premium bullet can make a cartridge thought to be inadequate for a given application in 1946,into a cartridge that is considered more than adequate for that same application today.

I dont know. I think my ammo was around in 1946. Perhaps even in the 1880's. I shoot mostly a 45/70 with heavy hard cast WFN's (you can google that), and I most often put em threw the vitals. I dont count on a premium bullet to maybe expand to the diameter of what I do in and out

[equanuck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I don't see a brake improving the groups below,which were fired with hunting loads out of a 300RUM hunting rifle.And I don't use a lead sled or any similar device.

Noticed not a single bullet hit the dead center! LOL!

[imhere]

Originally Posted by equanuck

Noticed not a single bullet hit the dead center! LOL!

You get that kind of consistancy with a 243 then your ready for the biggums. If this chap.(and I,I just dont have pics) can put a high powered high damaging round into the same place in an animal as someone with a 270 then why wouldn't we. That would be first and foremost with the added benefit that if that animal flinches one hair as that projectile is launched we have up'd our recovery chances

[elkhunter11]

You get that kind of consistancy with a 243 then your ready for the biggums.

Big gums?Would that be Double Bubble?

That would be first and foremost with the added benefit that if that animal flinches one hair as that projectile is launched we have up'd our recovery chances

Unlike you,I don't use cartridges as slow as a 45-70 where the animal can move a significant amount from the time that I squeeze the trigger until the bullet reaches the target.

I dont count on a premium bullet to maybe expand to the diameter of what I do in and out

Try an expanded diameter of .800",which is larger than the unexpanded diameter of one of your 45-70 bullets.

[imhere]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Big gums?Would that be Double Bubble?



Unlike you,I don't use cartridges as slow as a 45-70 where the animal can move a significant amount from the time that I squeeze the trigger until the bullet reaches the target.



Try an expanded diameter of .800",which is larger than the unexpanded diameter of one of your 45-70 bullets.

at what point do you get that expansion.? Right away. You got the prairie flat out there aint nothing else syndrome boyo. Thats my point. There aint no "all round best". I shoot a high vel high energy 30 cal to and 375 and 45 and 50 and they all have an equal place and you can be under gunned but never over. Is that a pic of a projectile from your "All round best"? Would it be your "all round best" with a griz aproaching or would you consider my clunky slow ole 50 alaskan poking out 480 grains at 2200 FPS your "all round best" just even for that one second. Now stop,dont type, thats the nice thing about this,its not verbal so you can even call a friend if needs be to come up with a sensible answer

[elkhunter11]

at what point do you get that expansion.? Right away. You got the prairie flat out there aint nothing else syndrome

The expansion came quick enough to drop a big bull elk on the spot.And by the way,it was killed on a cutline through the timber,no where near any prairie.That bullet/velocity combination works great in either the timber,or on the prairie,but I don't use it for hunting deer or pronghorn,because it just isn't required.

[imhere]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The expansion came quick enough to drop a big bull elk on the spot.And by the way,it was killed on a cutline through the timber,no where near any prairie.That bullet/velocity combination works great in either the timber,or on the prairie,but I don't use it for hunting deer or pronghorn,because it just isn't required.

236 yds this little soup can on the right the muzzle at 1800 fps with him at full run

and produced this. Was probly doing 850-900 fps on impact

Boiling off skull. He's a full 7x7. I dont have scored yet

[elkhunter11]

236 yds this little soup can on the right the muzzle at 1800 fps with him at full run
and produced this. Was probly doing 850-900 fps on impact

So what would it do if you spotted the same bull 500 yards away in an opening?I never know what range my shot on an elk will be,it could be 20 yards,and it could be 500 yards,so I carry a rifle chambered for a cartridge that will get the job done from 20 yards to 500 yards.

[imhere]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So what would it do if you spotted the same bull 500 yards away in an opening?I never know what range my shot on an elk will be,it could be 20 yards,and it could be 500 yards,so I carry a rifle chambered for a cartridge that will get the job done from 20 yards to 500 yards.

Exactly
And what would your flat shooter do in dense cover?
No such thing as"ALL ROUND BEST"Your argument I'm quoting above proves it to perfection

[elkhunter11]

And what would your flat shooter do in dense cover?

It will do just as well as any other cartridge.Unless you are one of those people that still believe the long since disproven myths about certain cartridges being able to plow through brush,and not be deflected,you would realize that.I have seen several simulations both online and in magazines meant to test the deflection of various bullets at various velocities,and the results always lead to the same conclusion,that being that all bullets deflect when they strike brush,and the only way to ensure that you hit the target,is to avoid hitting the brush.In fact,some data showed that longer,more pointed bullets were more stable in flight,and they actually deflected less than shorter less pointed bullets when they struck branches.As for velocity,more velocity sometimes appeared to help the bullet maintain it's original course better.But in the end,no bullet will reliably penetrate brush,without being deflected.

[imhere]

I believe thoroughly that different bullets at different speed perform differently in brush. MOST CERTAINLY. Proved it many times. Think out of the CTC box

[elkhunter11]

I believe thoroughly that different bullets at different speed perform differently in brush. MOST CERTAINLY. Proved it many times. Think out of the CTC box

You go right on believing those old myths,and I will continue to shoot only when I have a clear target.

[KegRiver]

Back in the 1960s when I was learning to shoot, a friend and I got into an argument about how far the working range of a 22 loaded with shorts was.

I owned a 22 and he didn't so I though I could BS him and get away with it.
After all, he couldn't prove me wrong. So I claimed I could, "hit that bird on the top branch of that tree over there." It was legal to shoot that species of bird back then.

Well he challenged me to prove it. I hadn't thought of that. So now I was in a pickle. It was an impassably long shot, close to 100 yards I found out later.
I knew I would miss, but I had to try, I thought perhaps I could claim the gun malfunctioned and caused me to miss. So I took the shot, never once expecting to even come close enough to even scare that bird.
It was the fluke to end all flukes. A clean one shot kill. To this day my friend thinks I am a sharp shooter. I know I'm not. But that's for another thread.

Question is, does this prove that a 22 loaded with shorts is a good 100 yard gun?

It seems that some folks around here would say it does.

I say it proves no such thing, just like one person being able to hit targets from 20 to 500 yards proves nothing. Except that you can do it. And good for you.

That is the best all around gun for you. But not everyone is you.

Others have different skill levels, different physical characteristics ext.

For instance, I can not hold my hands steady, draw a straight line freehand, ext. I never could. So no amount of practice, no amount of tutoring, no equipment will make me a good or even adequate long range shooter.

Some are simply not big enough structurally to shoot a hard kicking, long range, rifle.

Others can but are not interested in S&M.




I am happy for you if you can shoot one of those big magnums out to 500 yards or even more, and you think that is the best all around gun for you.
I agree, it is. But the big bores are not for me.
For me the best all around guns for the game I hunt, at the ranges I hunt, are the guns I have.

Each person has a best all around gun for them but there is no best all around gun for everyone.

[imhere]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Back in the 1960s when I was learning to shoot, a friend and I got into an argument about how far the working range of a 22 loaded with shorts was.

I owned a 22 and he didn't so I though I could BS him and get away with it.
After all, he couldn't prove me wrong. So I claimed I could, "hit that bird on the top branch of that tree over there." It was legal to shoot that species of bird back then.

Well he challenged me to prove it. I hadn't thought of that. So now I was in a pickle. It was an impassably long shot, close to 100 yards I found out later.
I knew I would miss, but I had to try, I thought perhaps I could claim the gun malfunctioned and caused me to miss. So I took the shot, never once expecting to even come close enough to even scare that bird.
It was the fluke to end all flukes. A clean one shot kill. To this day my friend thinks I am a sharp shooter. I know I'm not. But that's for another thread.

Question is, does this prove that a 22 loaded with shorts is a good 100 yard gun?

It seems that some folks around here would say it does.

I say it proves no such thing, just like one person being able to hit targets from 20 to 500 yards proves nothing. Except that you can do it. And good for you.

That is the best all around gun for you. But not everyone is you.

Others have different skill levels, different physical characteristics ext.

For instance, I can not hold my hands steady, draw a straight line freehand, ext. I never could. So no amount of practice, no amount of tutoring, no equipment will make me a good or even adequate long range shooter.

Some are simply not big enough structurally to shoot a hard kicking, long range, rifle.

Others can but are not interested in S&M.




I am happy for you if you can shoot one of those big magnums out to 500 yards or even more, and you think that is the best all around gun for you.
I agree, it is. But the big bores are not for me.
For me the best all around guns for the game I hunt, at the ranges I hunt, are the guns I have.

Each person has a best all around gun for them but there is no best all around gun for everyone.

I'd agree with that. except the last part I would add to say,there is no "best all round" period.

Oh and there is such thing as brush busters elk11. Everything will sway in the brush but some a lot less ,to the point of insignificant.

Look elk11 I lived in the flatlands and foothills long enough to know the philisophy that all things must be fast and pointy and super expanding. That DOES NOT apply accross the board. Get around the world a bit bro. Like hemingway said "If you experience the same surroundings each day of your life its not unlike opening a book and reading the same page each day"

[duffy4]

Here is my DEFINITION of an "all around cartridge/rifle"

It would have to be reasonably shooter friendly because it would be shot by every size and stature of hunter.

It would be used for coyotes and deer and moose.

It would be used for close fast shots in the "bush" and more deliberate long ranged shots (but not "too" long) in the open prairie and mountains.

Jack O'Connor did not have the same choice of cartridges as we do today. But in "THE RIFLE BOOK" he devotes a chapter to "The All-Around Rifle".

He makes a case for the .300 savage, 7mm (7X57) the 270 win. the 30/40 Krag the 303 Brt.,the .300 Mag. (.300 H&H) and the 30/06.

In the end I think he suggests that the 30/06 is not a great rifle for varmints and long shots on antelope and it is not the best moose and grizzly round. However for a man that wants one rifle to do it all the 30/06 is probably it.

People who want to shoot elk at 500 yards usually use a "specialty rifle" for that purpose not an "all-round rifle". People who want to hunt moose at close range in the thick stuff, use a "specialty rifle" not an "all-round" rifle.

[imhere]

agreed

[Pathfinder76]

Disagreed

[imhere]

Originally Posted by chuck

Disagreed

And based on?

[bagwan]

NEUTRAL. Jack O'Connor was just like our writers today (or opinionated people) whatever sold stories was good for them and he and others milked this for all it was worth. The 'Best' is what you have in your hand and that is for you, yourself, to determine.

[elkhunter11]

People who want to shoot elk at 500 yards usually use a "specialty rifle" for that purpose not an "all-round rifle". People who want to hunt moose at close range in the thick stuff, use a "specialty rifle" not an "all-round" rifle.

A specialty rifle,is not necessarily a specialty cartridge.A specialty rifle for open terrain might be a 26" barreled 308win with a 4-12 scope,while a specialty brush rifle might be a 20" barreled 308win with either open sights or a 1-5 scope.In both case the cartridge behaves similarly,but one rifle allows more precise aiming at longer ranges,and the other is quicker and handier in tight quarters.

However,a person can just as easily use a 308win with a 23" barrel and a 3-9 scope,and not be overly handicapped in either situation.That would make this the all around rifle.

Oh and there is such thing as brush busters elk11. Everything will sway in the brush but some a lot less ,to the point of insignificant.

The brush busting cartridge only lives on in the minds of people who are ignorant enough to belief that a bullet can be relied upon to strike brush and never be deflected significantly enough to cause it to stray off of it's line of flight.People that know better,choose to wait for an unobstructed target.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by imhere

And based on?

Experience. Try it sometime. It's an eye opener.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

A specialty rifle,is not necessarily a specialty cartridge.A specialty rifle for open terrain might be a 26" barreled 308win with a 4-12 scope,while a specialty brush rifle might be a 20" barreled 308win with either open sights or a 1-5 scope.In both case the cartridge behaves similarly,but one rifle allows more precise aiming at longer ranges,and the other is quicker and handier in tight quarters.

However,a person can just as easily use a 308win with a 23" barrel and a 3-9 scope,and not be overly handicapped in either situation.That would make this the all around rifle.

The brush busting cartridge only lives on in the minds of people who are ignorant enough to belief that a bullet can be relied upon to strike brush and never be deflected significantly enough to cause it to stray off of it's line of flight.People that know better,choose to wait for an unobstructed target.

I find myself somewhat suprised to be saying this but; "VERY WELL SAID." I also congratulate you on sticking to a civil discussion of fact and opinion. Good job, keep it up.

[Pathfinder76]

By the way Jack O'Connor was right, the poster just messed up it's application.

[Pines]

Originally Posted by chuck

Experience. Try it sometime. It's an eye opener.

now it makes sense..lol..

[Pines]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So what would it do if you spotted the same bull 500 yards away in an opening?I never know what range my shot on an elk will be,it could be 20 yards,and it could be 500 yards,so I carry a rifle chambered for a cartridge that will get the job done from 20 yards to 500 yards.

Hi elk ..not gonna read all the thread ..but just what would that cartridge be ?? cause I'm looking for exactly that ..tks

[duffy4]

Originally Posted by Flyster

I'm sure this question has been asked many times but can't seem to find a thread using the search. After postponing it for years I finally got my PAL when my dad gave me the .22 that we used to shoot when I was kid. I've done a bit of bowhunting over the years but now that I have my PAL I'm looking at buying a rifle. I'm sure there are some varied opinions but if I was going to buy just one rifle what is the best calibre for hunting deer, elk, and moose in Alberta?

Ryan

As you sift through the posts on here you will find that some posters want to promote their favourite cartridge/rifle.

And some will really try to help you with your question.

Then a lot will get right off your original question and get into arguments among themselves.

I hope you find a good gun to hunt with and enjoy success with it next fall.

[imhere]

Originally Posted by duffy4

I hope you find a good gun to hunt with and enjoy success with it next fall.

True enough
And who knows what you'll end up with cause ultimately words on here are exactly that. Empty words. If I were you I would try to hook up with a person or persons who do some range time with a variety of guns and get out with them to see which you like, which fits you and also stick your nose into some books or the net to see which cartridges offer you the ballistics which best cover your situation. As I've said, it wont do all but you should be able to get one that will get you out there hunting. Then as different needs arise you can fill those in as req'd. Sorry for the tangents and sorry that one gun or cal wont do it all for ya