Wild Horses: "Someones Garbage that should be properly disposed of." TJ Schwanky

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by fatboyz

If interested here is a link to Kyle's research. It was initiated in 2004, and research finnished in 2008.
http://www.cougarnet.org/Assets/S09north.pdf

thankyou.

[59whiskers]

Predators do have a impact. There are more wolves in the area I hunt. It is more than just horses.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by st99

we know SG you blame it all on wolves, but the reality is that they are not the only ones to blame....

and those horses are like bedbugs and rats, not native from alberta and deserved to be exterminated....

I understand that they do compete with the wild life and that to many will cause issues. But is there proof that what feed they eat and steal from the other animals is having an effect on the population? Are they starving the other animals out? Im sure in a few wintering areas they do effect how animals fare.
The big factor is yes they do compete and yes that will effect things but is it actually causing lower populations? The largest decrease in wild life population numbers is where there arent any feral/wild horses. And you all have argued tooth and nail that sheep populations are not hurting and may be doing better than years past. So are these horses actually a direct cause of some population numbers to drop?

If there is documented facts showing that they have been a direct caused to the decrease im sure WB will post it and that would be appreciated.

Another interesting thing is that I saw a post that Albertas Bull Trout Populations arent doing well still after managment has tried to help them but I sure dont see anyone juping up and saying that we should be eliminating the "Non Native" Browns that are competing in them waters with the bull trout!
SG

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

Cattle grazing is not as detrimental to the elk population as horses are. The cows are removed from the forestry early in the fall. On occasion I have seen some over grazing by cattle in the forestry areas. More often than not cattle seem to concentrate where the grass is more abundant in the bottom of valleys around streams in the summer. On the other hand, Feral horses inhabit the forestry areas year round and often end up competing with elk for feed that is not covered by snow high up on windswept open hillsides. Often valley bottoms have deep crusted snow that is hard to get at by any animal. It takes more food to sustain a horse through the winter than it does a elk. I prefer to have more elk and the horses gone.

not only are they competing for forage they are competing for space. where do elk and moose calve. the horses are on the westerly slopes and in the valley and yes, they have displaced the elk.

[SonnyJ]

Originally Posted by st99

not native from alberta and deserved to be exterminated....

wow...does that include all non native species?

[fatboyz]

You know I have to agree with SG on one point. WHen we consider low Elk numbers we're quick to point fingers at the horses, but what about the Panther, YA-Ha, Scalp, South Ram, White Rabbit, Job Lake, Whisker creek? No horse's, and very few Elk, Even the Blackstone and Vimy only have about 15-20 head of feral horses, and very low elk numbers.

[big-river]

The horses are aggressive and they do impact wild game populations. Just watch them take over a mineral lick or a feed area.

They also impact trail riders and hunters who run into them, the aggressiveness can result in some memorable experiences.

There is room for them out west, but they need controls on them.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by big-river

There is room for them out west, but they need controls on them.

Exactly.

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by big-river

The horses are aggressive and they do impact wild game populations. Just watch them take over a mineral lick or a feed area.

They also impact trail riders and hunters who run into them, the aggressiveness can result in some memorable experiences.

There is room for them out west, but they need controls on them.

no

[Arn?Narn.]

they are feral...any impact, is too much.

[st99]

Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.

they are feral...any impact, is too much.

exactly !!

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.

they are feral...any impact, is too much.

So then you agree that any non native plants and animals should be eliminated then?
SG

[roughneckin]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

So then you agree that any non native plants and animals should be eliminated then?
SG

I know exactly where you are headed SG and am in complete agreement....

[Rockymtnx]

Originally Posted by fatboyz

If interested here is a link to Kyle's research. It was initiated in 2004, and research finnished in 2008.
http://www.cougarnet.org/Assets/S09north.pdf

So Nait, are you saying that this is outdated info? Or even a urban legend?

With comments like you added earlier in this thread, it really shows, your lack of knowledge on some subjects.

[Arn?Narn.]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

So then you agree that any non native plants and animals should be eliminated then?
SG

I can't understand how people cannot stay on subject. The subject is not brown trout, not canola, not cows put to pasture..
The subject is feral horses.

when the subject is brown trout, Canola or cows put to pasture, we can discuss it then.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.

I can't understand how people cannot stay on subject. The subject is not brown trout, not canola, not cows put to pasture..
The subject is feral horses.

when the subject is brown trout, Canola or cows put to pasture, we can discuss it then.

Ok Arn back to the horses, do you think they are a direct cause of population decreases in our elk herds?

SG

[Arn?Narn.]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Ok Arn back to the horses, do you think they are a direct cause of population decreases in our elk herds?

SG

Are we talking about Elk or feral horses...

[alpineguy]

I have watched elk and wildies feeding within 100 yards of each other in the fall. The grass was knee deep and I saw no conflicts occurring.
On the other hand I believe their numbers should be controlled to some degree but a complete erradication is not necessary. Just My Opinion from what I have witnessed personally.

[molly]

Originally Posted by alpineguy

I believe their numbers should be controlled to some degree but a complete eradication is not necessary. Just My Opinion from what I have witnessed personally.

I agree!! I think the best solution would be for SRD to increase the number of capture permits. Here is a link to the SRD page that deals with "wild" horses:

http://www/srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPr...InAlberta.aspx

Honestly, some of the comments on here!

[mark007]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

They compete directly with our native wildlife for food, for space, for thermal cover. There no denying that. Let's say a feral horse eats 25-30 pounds of food a day and times that by a minimum of 600 horses. That's 15,000 - 18,000 pounds of food a day being taken away from our elk, deer and in some cases sheep. There, how's that for some quick science

Now what's your science for keeping them?

there once was a fellow in Europe with the same idea back in the early 1930's and 40's

did not want a certain non native in his country and he tried to eradicate it!

excuse was not leaving enough for native population!

this is the most asinine thread i have ever read

sheephunter stop hunting for a couple of years and let someone else shoot something your taking away by shooting something somebody else could shoot!!

your argument is self serving

[Redfrog]

So Mark 007 what other species do think we should dump,,,er introduce into the system?

[mark007]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

So Mark 007 what other species do think we should dump,,,er introduce into the system?

what is done is done no turning back time. some of these herds have been here longer than you and i. and your sarcasm is not lost!

what about sparrows or as one post stated cattle (non native as well).

it seems if they do not fit in the mold of the environment we want then the answer seems to be get rid of them because they do not belong.

i think the simplest solution is rather than go where they are and hunt avoid them

[Redfrog]

Sparrows are damaging the environment on the ungulate ranges. WOW! I hadn't heard about that. Can you give me a link ? OR better still how about some pics. Have you actually seen this yourself?

Oh wait a minute. You nearly got me again. First with comparing someone who comments on the horse pests to Hitler killing 6 million people and now trying to compare sparrows and horses when there aren't even sparrows in the area in winter.
You're really tricky. I'll be keeping my BS detector on high alert from now on.

" the answer seems to be get rid of them because they do not belong."

Nice catch!! That is one solution.

BTW you didn't answer my question. What other species should be dumped into the system?

Originally Posted by mark007

there once was a fellow in Europe with the same idea back in the early 1930's and 40's

did not want a certain non native in his country and he tried to eradicate it!

excuse was not leaving enough for native population!

this is the most asinine thread i have ever read

sheephunter stop hunting for a couple of years and let someone else shoot something your taking away by shooting something somebody else could shoot!!

your argument is self serving

Wow, a Holocaust anonalogy when speaking about the management of an animal, those are typically the sole domain of extreme animal rightists. Not even sure what to say to that one Mark.

[Arn?Narn.]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Wow, a Holocaust anonalogy when speaking about the management of an animal, those are typically the sole domain of extreme animal rightists. Not even sure what to say to that one Mark.

Somewhere....right now... Heather Mills has a tear of pride in her eye...

[mark007]

so the facts are according to you redfrog is that they are affecting the ungulate population which in return affects your ability to hunt

and FYI sparrows do affect nesting and food supply for native species of birds
also consume crops damage buildings and are associated with 29 diseases that can spread to man and livestock!
as i stated before lots of places to hunt with out running into wild horses!

once again if it does not fit your mold then it should not be!

my point being if you start where does it end? brown trout next!?

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.

Are we talking about Elk or feral horses...

Both Arn as most on here are using the excuse that horses are competing to much with other animals causing population issues so horses should be eliminated!

If this is not your stand then why is your reasoning for eradication of the horses in the west country?

SG

[Redfrog]

I have a few minutes to waste so Ill play along.

I said nothing about my ability to hunt. I hunt with or without the feral horses blessing. The concern is the threat to wild populations and damage to the environment. Nothing else , not the holocaust or sparrows.

There are lots of problem species. That does not mean they shouldn't be dealt with. If you have a plan to deal with sparrows, tell us what it is . We may support it.

Again nothing to do with my mold. Everything to do with damage to the environment. Even saying it over and over won't make it my issue. It is an environmental issue. BTW I have a bunch of horses and I really like to watch horses being horses. I don't care for feral animals damaging the environment.

Hopefully it ends when we have a balance that everyone can live with. Is the brown trout damaging the environment in the areas where the feral horses are? Or is that another red herring? Is the Brown trout feral. Was it dumped by the bucket brigade, or irresponsible brown trout owners?

Now do you want to talk about the feral horses or sparrows, the holocaust, and fish?

I expect that will be another unanswered question. What species do you think should be dumped into the environment?

[mark007]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Wow, a Holocaust anonalogy when speaking about the management of an animal, those are typically the sole domain of extreme animal rightists. Not even sure what to say to that one Mark.

no not holocaust analogy ....in 1930's a french biologist wanted to eradicate a species of pheasant do to the fact it was competing with birds natural to the area!

is it not simply amazing how things can get misconstrued by some people!!

i hope point is taken!

[sheepguide]

Just a note. Check out the horse picture thread at the grass quantities in these areas that are being hit hard by horses.

SG