Quality Trout Fisheries in Alberta - Page 61

Speckle55 · #**1801** 03-31-2011, 02:39 PM

You guys don,t get that you need a Big Lake to survive Pressure ..we don,t have it .. even Kootenay Lake Collapsed .. how many miles long is Kootenay.. how many differn,t type of lake structure etc etc.. derverse lake..

even if you did what i said you have to do that every year 12 inch Bows as it can not handle pressure and SRD does not have a Kootenay lake in Alberta .. can they improve a lake yes but will pressure kill a lake yes .. even if it is C & R yes ..because the lakes here are not big enough.. you guys said even Duck Lake got killed how Pressure...

can the lake here support 25 inch trout yes .. but how many per lake in the end ..so do you mean a small lake can have 50 fish 24 inches and thats it ..yes yes yes ... there is a ratio..its called carrying Capacity

so a catch and release lake in the summer and 4000 anglers with 50 big fish can get killed because on a hot day the C & R die off increase,s with every degree of temp.. so if your lake is shallow you can have a percent die off just because of temp of water.. thats not including algae

chubbdarter · #**1802** 03-31-2011, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speckle55

You guys don,t get that you need a Big Lake to survive Pressure ..we don,t have it .. even Kootenay Lake Collapsed .. how many miles long is Kootenay.. how many differn,t type of lake structure etc etc.. derverse lake..

even if you did what i said you have to do that every year 12 inch Bows as it can not handle pressure and SRD does not have a Kootenay lake in Alberta .. can they improve a lake yes but will pressure kill a lake yes .. even if it is C & R yes ..because the lakes here are not big enough.. you guys said even Duck Lake got killed how Pressure...

can the lake here support 25 inch trout yes .. but how many per lake in the end ..so do you mean a small lake can have 50 fish 24 inches and thats it ..yes yes yes ... there is a ratio..its called carrying Cap

so a catch and release lake in the summer and 4000 anglers with 50 big fish can get killed because on a hot day the C & R die off increase,s with every degree of temp.. so if your lake is shallow you can have a percent die off just because of temp of water.. thats no including algae

poor fish management caused alot of problems on the Koot.....that was made worst by even worst fish management to repair the damage.
Many influances caused it near collapse but poor fishery ideas played a big role.

One scar of poor management is the ling fishery in the Koot.....or lack of now

p.s. its almost time to pull some hair out there.....tying right now

Sundancefisher · #**1803** 03-31-2011, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speckle55

You guys don,t get that you need a Big Lake to survive Pressure ..we don,t have it .. even Kootenay Lake Collapsed .. how many miles long is Kootenay.. how many differn,t type of lake structure etc etc.. derverse lake..

even if you did what i said you have to do that every year 12 inch Bows as it can not handle pressure and SRD does not have a Kootenay lake in Alberta .. can they improve a lake yes but will pressure kill a lake yes .. even if it is C & R yes ..because the lakes here are not big enough.. you guys said even Duck Lake got killed how Pressure...

can the lake here support 25 inch trout yes .. but how many per lake in the end ..so do you mean a small lake can have 50 fish 24 inches and thats it ..yes yes yes ... there is a ratio..its called carrying Capacity

so a catch and release lake in the summer and 4000 anglers with 50 big fish can get killed because on a hot day the C & R die off increase,s with every degree of temp.. so if your lake is shallow you can have a percent die off just because of temp of water.. thats not including algae

I said Duck was impacted by suckers, overfishing and over stocking. Just just over fishing. But you once again show you don't know the essense of what you are either saying or understanding.

Proponents of Quality Lakes are saying that a combination of overstocking in some and over harvest in others cause a population crash...only small fish are available for catching as all prevouisly stocked fish have either poor growth or poor survival due to early harvest.

You yourself now comprehend that a large lake like Kootenay can run into the same problem with over harvest...yet we have heard repeatedly by some that we should all go to Kootenay to fish. What happens then...is another crash.

We have to manage the fisheries for both size and harvest to get a balance of recreational benefits for a range of users in Alberta. The management of harvest and size has been tried and true for eons...both in freshwater and sal****er. The only difference is people are now asking for subtle changes that have fabulous benefit.

You are tyring to play biologist without the expertise or education and it shows.

Incidental mortality can be mitigated through stocking and harvesting management directives and regulations. I can say that for our simple lake in Calgary...we mitigate harvest...maximize angling opportunities and have even shown large fish get released find and are caught time and time again.

Non bait C&R mortality is way, way lower than bait fishing catch and release mortality. That is a key way to mitigate problems without decreasing catch rates for everyone. Anyone like HD that says a kid can't catch a trout with a fly and bobber needs to get lessons from all the kids at Bullshead. It is so simple...you can't be afraid or to egotistical to try it.

In the end Specs...you are making up complications...making this seems way bigger an issue to implement...when it is as simple as a delayed harvest and altering stocking rates.

Still...I thought this post of yours showed way, way better penmanship which shows you are doing something different. If you would reread a couple more time...use shorter sentence...it would be an even greater improvement. Keep practicing...but please keep checking over your work! It does help a lot.

Cheers

Sun

Pudelpointer · #**1804** 03-31-2011, 03:09 PM

Speck, fishing pressure had ZERO to do with the collapse of the Gerard fishery on Kootenay Lk. The trout numbers bottomed out because the kokanee numbers bottomed out because there were no nutrients left in the reservoir. Then, in a historic example of bad decisions, Mysid shrimp were introduced into the lake in an attempt to increase the availability of food - problem was (is) that Mysid shrimp are at the surface when kokanee are at the bottom, and at the bottom when kokanee are at the surface...

The introduction of Mysis shrimp is a perfect example of why you do not do what you were advocating early on in this thread; that is: messing around with a lake trying to change its natural productivity.

ETA, I should add that while fishing pressure had virtually nothing to do with the collapse of Gerard numbers, it can definitely have an impact on a recovering or depleted fishery - such as the current situation in those lakes.

chubbdarter · #**1805** 03-31-2011, 03:22 PM

the problem was compounded because the mysis actually ate the plankton....the most important organism to a kokanee.

The main culprit was BC hydro....Man's influence!!
One fact remains though many huge RBT are caught with softball size balls of mysis in their guts

Speckle55 · #**1806** 03-31-2011, 03:22 PM

I said pressure you said how you defined pressure ..you said how Kootenay collapsed i didn,t .. you said why lake,s won,t make it i said pressure.. you say they can control this as they have done for years i say pressure changes that..

wow why are we on this post now you are telling the Bio how to do his/her job
and you want me to believe that it is a few things

like get rid of ice fishing
and cut back kept fish and
make it no bait
no spin cast flyfish only
can only catch 16 inch fish
no fishing on Monday Wed and Friday
you can only fish beteween the hours of 1 and 4 pm
and you have to be female

no girls after 2 pm

just wondering did i get that right?

chubbdarter · #**1807** 03-31-2011, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speckle55

I said pressure you said how you defined pressure ..you said how Kootenay collapsed i didn,t .. you said why lake,s won,t make it i said pressure.. you say they can control this as they have done for years i say pressure changes that..

wow why are we on this post now you are telling the Bio how to do his/her job
and you want me to believe that it is a few things

like get rid of ice fishing
and cut back kept fish and
make it no bait
no spin cast flyfish only
can only catch 16 inch fish
no fishing on Monday Wed and Friday
you can only fish beteween the hours of 1 and 4 pm
and you have to be female

no girls after 2 pm

just wondering did i get that right?

[QUOTE=Speckle55;889084]You guys don,t get that you need a Big Lake to survive Pressure ..we don,t have it .. even Kootenay Lake Collapsed .. how many miles long is Kootenay.. how many differn,t type of lake structure etc etc.. derverse lake..

Sundancefisher · #**1808** 03-31-2011, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speckle55

I said pressure you said how you defined pressure ..you said how Kootenay collapsed i didn,t .. you said why lake,s won,t make it i said pressure.. you say they can control this as they have done for years i say pressure changes that..

wow why are we on this post now you are telling the Bio how to do his/her job
and you want me to believe that it is a few things

like get rid of ice fishing
and cut back kept fish and
make it no bait
no spin cast flyfish only
can only catch 16 inch fish
no fishing on Monday Wed and Friday
you can only fish beteween the hours of 1 and 4 pm
and you have to be female

no girls after 2 pm

just wondering did i get that right?

You are taking an HD misdirect and exaggerate attack on a simple issue.

Ice fishing is not a problem depending upon location, pressure, poaching etc. U and L Kananaskis...ice fishing...can't see why not. Beaver...Muir...Bullshead...not a wise idea due to pressure and poaching concerns on a smaller water body.

Limits have always been adjusted to maintain catch rates and prevent collapse. They were 10 a day once when I was younger...yet you are only complaining about 5 a day to to a day. You must of whined like crasy going from 10 to 5. Still...the reason you can't justify arguing 10 is due to over harvest concerns...which exists now in many lakes under the existing 5 a day rules.

No bait significantly decreases incidental mortality making it easier to predict and manage populations.

The over 16 inch idea is just a variety of ideas to delay harvest...until the population achieves that average size...then the fish are harvestable and much larger than a 9 to 12 inch fish.

Then you start acting even crazier...but I see you still have females on your mind...

Pudelpointer · #**1809** 03-31-2011, 03:40 PM

Interesting Chub, I have not read much on the lake for years. What size hook does one tie a Mysis fly on???

Reminds me of guys fishing with Daphnia flies. I have trouble with #16 hooks, never mind #Plankton sized hooks!

Speckle, you have lost me again. I said they can control... what? Pressure? I never said that (though they can). Again, I fail to understand the point you seem to be attempting to make.

I am open to hearing it if I can understand it.

chubbdarter · #**1810** 03-31-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Interesting Chub, I have not read much on the lake for years. What size hook does one tie a Mysis fly on???

Reminds me of guys fishing with Daphnia flies. I have trouble with #16 hooks, never mind #Plankton sized hooks!

Speckle, you have lost me again. I said they can control... what? Pressure? I never said that (though they can). Again, I fail to understand the point you seem to be attempting to make.

I am open to hearing it if I can understand it.

never tryed pudel...but huge masses of mysis show on the fish finder and they are almost always seen with some big marks.
if we send the rigger down with a flasher and hoochie we sometimes can hook up and their bellies are loaded

Speckle55 · #**1811** 03-31-2011, 03:48 PM

So i got the first four out of five right..

I have trouble just tying on the indicator let alone the size 16 hook ..laughing will tell you if ever fish with you...

See iliketrout was on my mind ..ha ha should not post pic,s ..i was thinking fish before.. 1 goodlooking lady there goes my fishing;;;

Speckle55 · #**1812** 03-31-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

never tryed pudel...but huge masses of mysis show on the fish finder and they are almost always seen with some big marks.
if we send the rigger down with a flasher and hoochie we sometimes can hook up and their bellies are loaded

Use a Bucktail fly(not #16) or if your going down a cut plug..OMG i let the cat out of the bag

and yes if the thermo is at 87 feet be there OMG i let the cat out of bag

first time we fish lake took me 15 minutes talking at sports store to find all that out and my picture book helped.. some i knew

chubbdarter · #**1813** 03-31-2011, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Use a Bucktail fly(not #16) or if your going down a cut plug..OMG i let the cat out of the bag

and yes if the thermo is at 87 feet be there OMG i let the cat out of bag

first time we fish lake took me 15 minutes talking at sports store to find all that out and my picture book helped.. some i knew

lose too much cable going back instead of down pulling hair or a plug at 130 down..

Spec do you have son in Bentley,AB.?

iliketrout · #**1814** 03-31-2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speckle55

So i got the first four out of five right..

I have trouble just tying on the indicator let alone the size 16 hook ..laughing will tell you if ever fish with you...

See iliketrout was on my mind ..ha ha should not post pic,s ..i was thinking fish before.. 1 goodlooking lady there goes my fishing;;;

Dude check out my avatar...and realize Chubby is playing a joke on you...

As for you, Chubby...I have something planned that will make even you blush.

Pudelpointer · #**1815** 03-31-2011, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iliketrout

Dude check out my avatar...and realize Chubby is playing a joke on you...

As for you, Chubby...I have something planned that will make even you blush.

Hahhahahaaaaahaaah! I saw your avatar on another thread and thought: "Lady look's like a dude when she's not all dressed up!"

I knew that Chubby was trouble...

Sundancefisher · #**1816** 03-31-2011, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iliketrout

Dude check out my avatar...and realize Chubby is playing a joke on you...

As for you, Chubby...I have something planned that will make even you blush.

LOL...now this thread is going to get uglier...

chubbdarter · #**1817** 03-31-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Hahhahahaaaaahaaah! I saw your avatar on another thread and thought: "Lady look's like a dude when she's not all dressed up!"

I knew that Chubby was trouble...

Thats a old pic when she was a dude

chubbdarter · #**1818** 03-31-2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

LOL...now this thread is going to get uglier...

whats important is that we all dont judge.....love is love

chubbdarter · #**1819** 03-31-2011, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iliketrout

Dude check out my avatar...and realize Chubby is playing a joke on you...

As for you, Chubby...I have something planned that will make even you blush.

hey now gurlfriend...dont be like that......lol.

iliketrout · #**1820** 03-31-2011, 04:44 PM

Uggh I managed to stay out of this for 61 pages until now...damn you Chubby!

chubbdarter · #**1821** 03-31-2011, 04:46 PM

i need job...part time...here are my demands. Sorry not able to negotiate terms are firm.
1-cant work in the winter
2-cant work if i stay up too late watching T.V. us old guys need sleep
3-corner office with lots of windows
4-office must have 60 inch T.V. and a comfie lazy boy
5- secretary must like creepy old men
6-option to not come to work as my choice
7-company truck with gas card
8-tackle allowance
9-private parking spot...indoors
10-free paid lunches
11-dedicated computer for AO use

anyone have anything for me pm me asap

thanks

chubbdarter · #**1822** 03-31-2011, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iliketrout

Uggh I managed to stay out of this for 61 pages until now...damn you Chubby!

we should go catch some trout.....C and R of course...cuz we got Montana's

Speckle55 · #**1823** 03-31-2011, 06:08 PM

Roflmao.. yep i ask you lied.. my friend did same in Calgary years ago was in Airliner or other bar .. some girls to dance with 1 Looker ..was going to ask her guys smirked.. the she was a he . the dude was a lady ... best Queen in Calgary u southern boys are nasty.. us mountain boys don,t take to kindly with come up with a hand full. suppose the sister is yours?

Speckle55 · #**1824** 03-31-2011, 06:12 PM

Nope , but then i grew up in the 70's .. are you asking me if it is possible

..yes

huntin'fool · #**1825** 03-31-2011, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

That is the positive aspect of this post/thread. That there are differing opinions. Now from Hinton there is another voice. Great to see!

The train is coming

.

And the people on that train seem to want some changes.

lol

I've always been for change man, right from the start.

HunterDave · #**1826** 04-01-2011, 12:07 AM

Everything that needed to be said has been said. To those of you that think that it's okay to conduct province wide campaigns to place restrictions on Alberta water bodies, despite what the users of the lake want, in order to make it easier for you to catch big fish I leave you with these quotes..........

"Soon after I embraced the sport of angling I became convinced that I should never be able to enjoy it if I had to rely on the cooperation of the fish." Sparse Grey Hackle

"It is not how abundant nor how considerable our catch be, but rather to the sport, and manner in which our quarry, the noble trout is angled."-J.B. Martin

"If I fished only to capture fish, my fishing trips would have ended long ago." Zane Grey

"The lake's too far, the lake's fished out and there are no big fish in the lake are all excuses used by poor and lazy anglers." Hunterdave 2011

Hunterdave out...........

madatter · #**1827** 04-01-2011, 02:02 AM

What I got out of that HD was blah blah...blah blah blah!!
In your little world I guess no change is good,but that's in your world...not the real one.

GaryF · #**1828** 04-01-2011, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

i need job...part time...here are my demands. Sorry not able to negotiate terms are firm.
1-cant work in the winter
2-cant work if i stay up too late watching T.V. us old guys need sleep
3-corner office with lots of windows
4-office must have 60 inch T.V. and a comfie lazy boy
5- secretary must like creepy old men
6-option to not come to work as my choice
7-company truck with gas card
8-tackle allowance
9-private parking spot...indoors
10-free paid lunches
11-dedicated computer for AO use

anyone have anything for me pm me asap

thanks

Running for federal politics are you?

huntsfurfish · #**1829** 04-01-2011, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Yup, I'm staying out of this one but it ought to be good.I know, why not change the regs for Upper Kananaskis Lake and reduce the possession limit but increase the keep size in order to create a quality fishery?

From the first page.

You'l be back

Sundancefisher · #**1830** 04-01-2011, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

"The lake's too far, the lake's fished out and there are no big fish in the lake are all excuses used by poor and lazy anglers." Hunterdave 2011[/B]

Dave...LMAO.

You who wants to catch 9 inch freshly stocked rainbows...is calling someone who wants rainbows to grow to a smarter and educated larger average size lazy.

That IS one of your best quotes showing how out of touch you are.

Your post is like a quality Sesame Street episode. One of this things is not like the other.

LOL